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Sunspot ( Member #74231) posted at 9:08 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

If my WS was that gung ho for the A - why wouldn't she just say 'Suck it - I am out to upgrade!!'

Remember, she might not have that option. She might be fun to have a fling with, but not the kind of woman a guy leaves his wife or girlfriend for. What man would "upgrade" from a non-cheating woman to a proven cheater???

Someone else once posted, the BS gives the WS 90% of what the WS needs. Then the AP comes along and offers that remaining 10% and the WS is all agog and thrilled because now they've got that full magical 100%. But if they leave the BS, then they don't have 100% any more or even 90%... they have 10%-- and usually they have 0% because the affairs often stop when the "sneaking around fun" is over.

90% looks like a huge deficit until you're faced with having 0%.

When suddenly faced with this, the WS's almost always choke.

[This message edited by Sunspot at 3:13 PM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

posts: 59   ·   registered: Apr. 16th, 2020   ·   location: USA
id 8583000
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 UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 9:16 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Is she worth keeping around?

That's been my #1 question rolling around in my mind.

The wife she once was for me as recently as this past spring? Hell yes that version of her is worth keeping around.

The person she has become over the Summer? I am not sure who she really is anymore. Was this just an isolated thing? Was she involved with him or anyone else in the past? I have no idea what to think at this point.

Who I am? A high value man with a lot to offer! I am full aware I'll have plenty of opportunities in life were we to divorce.

….7 kids though. None of them asking for the upheaval and instability that is on their doorstep. I am compelled to exhaust all resources in efforts to keep their world intact. Only then can I look them in the eye and said I did everything I possibly could for them.

We wont be deciding on the R or D right away. But the fact I was served the D papers means we need to be talking about what we are going to do and come to a decision sooner than later.

Am I going to sign the papers or is she going to put a hold on proceedings for a period of time while we explore a R? She must commit to everything that would require...but if she balks at any of it, game over.

I don't know how things will unfold yet but hearing your collective insights will help me be more educated as I head into discussion

[This message edited by UnhappyDaddy at 3:21 PM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

posts: 39   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8583006
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Kaliber ( Member #74046) posted at 9:31 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Who I am? A high value man with a lot to offer! I am full aware I'll have plenty of opportunities in life were we to divorce.

Then you have nothing to worry about or be afraid of!

So I strongly advice you to expose the affair to all her family and friends.

After all are informed tell her you will sign the divorce papers (bluff if you must) but only after you expose the affair then watch how she acts, you will know if she is willing to stay in the marriage and put in the hard work!

….7 kids though. None of them asking for the upheaval and instability that is on their doorstep. I am compelled to exhaust all resources in efforts to keep their world intact. Only then can I look them in the eye and said I did everything I possibly could for them.

You did nothing wrong, you can look them in the eyes and tell them SHE filed for divorce and SHE had an affair not me, she fired me as a husband and destroyed our one family!

[This message edited by Kaliber at 3:33 PM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

You don't have a choice of being a victim, but you always have a choice of remaining one!

posts: 145   ·   registered: Mar. 13th, 2020   ·   location: Germany
id 8583017
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 UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 9:33 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Thank you sunspot; I will not be contributing to anything pro or con until we determine if we will divorce or reconcile. Everything is on hold until then.

If we decide to divorce, I will sign the papers right away and execute my plan B....because I am reasonably intelligent enough man to have already put my mind to that possibility and you'll be seeing me on the divorce area of this website

If we decide to reconcile it will be because she agreed to my terms to do so..if that is the case you might see me in the Reconciliation section gearing up for what needs to happen next.

I appreciate you all giving me things to think about and look for as I head into the weekend

posts: 39   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8583018
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 UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 9:40 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Thank you Kaliber - the bluff suggestion is solid!

As to telling the children about the A? They are aged 4-16. That would hurt them very much to understand. They don't need the gory details IMO. I need to feel like I have done everything I could to save the marriage so that I can more easily move on with such radical change to their existence.

However - I've never thought I'd be asked to deal with infidelity which certainly has got me on a serious pause if I will be able to work with that or not.

[This message edited by UnhappyDaddy at 3:41 PM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

posts: 39   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8583024
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Kaliber ( Member #74046) posted at 9:44 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

UnhappyDaddy, does your wife have a family around that can be informed?

Close friends?

You can keep the kids outside of it until you decide the best time you need to tell them, and of course, only age appropriate no details!

You don't have a choice of being a victim, but you always have a choice of remaining one!

posts: 145   ·   registered: Mar. 13th, 2020   ·   location: Germany
id 8583025
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faithfulman ( Member #66002) posted at 9:45 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

You don't even need to look for this (above) - more likely they are using whatapp or one of the countless wifi messenger services to communicate that leave no trace on your bill (my advice to look for these are battery stats in the iphone if that is what she uses - most overlooked statistic on that phone). If she is like my WH she will use the app and then delete it - and hide it in hidden apps so it does not (necessarily) show up on purchased apps or anywhere else...but it will still show on the battery stat.

Flexispy covers this issue very well.

I don't understand why she would play the role of remorseful WS. What is the point? She filed for divorce - I have seen threads here where the poor BS had the A rubbed in their faces as their WS danced merrily to divorce.

Cheaters are irrational lying jerks who don't want to look like the bad guy and will reinvent reality in their own mind and to the people around them to paint themselves in a better light.

posts: 872   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8583026
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 UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 9:52 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

No, my wife does not have family near by.

Her father and sister have passed. Estranged from another sister (out of state and doesn't get along with me anyways...probably just laugh) and her mother lives cross country.

According to wife and phone records....she has disclosed to her mother (as I have my own) and is in regular contact with her during all this craziness since D-day 48ish hrs ago. MIL is sorry we are going through us, tells her to 'follow her heart'

Likewise my mother express similar sentiment - albeit quite a bit more shocked/disappointed with my W

posts: 39   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8583030
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Jambomo ( Member #74853) posted at 9:55 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

I need to feel like I have done everything I could to save the marriage so that I can more easily move on with such radical change to their existence.

I mean this gently but no, you don’t. You made changes to yourself that made you a better father and husband, she had an affair and filed for divorce. You did your bit here to save your marriage and she is the one who is throwing it away.

One day your kids will be adults who will know and understand what has gone on. Many kids live happier lives with separated parents who are happy, than they do with parents who are together and struggling. Think about the advice you would give them if they were in your situation but most importantly, follow your instincts and do what you feel is right for you and your life.

posts: 240   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020   ·   location: Scotland
id 8583031
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 UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 9:57 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Thank you Jambomo!

posts: 39   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8583033
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pureheartkit ( Member #62345) posted at 10:06 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

I'm proud of you for having conquered your anger and worked hard to be the best you could be. That's huge.

It's not easy to work through these feelings. Be kind to yourself. Anger pops in easily and unexpectedly. Give yourself time.

Keep striving for good health and getting enough sleep so you can make the best decisions.

It's hard to know what's what in the early days. Let her know what you need going forward and see what she does. It's the actions that matter most.

Thank you everyone for your wisdom and healing.

posts: 2247   ·   registered: Jan. 19th, 2018
id 8583034
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paboy ( Member #59482) posted at 10:14 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Your first step needs to be you signing the divorce papers. This takes her power away. The longer you leave this, the more power she feels she has. It would be like having a noose hanging over you. She did the power play, now respond to it.

Signing it and giving it back to her now, lets her know that you are willing to walk.

Also, make an appt. to see your own lawyer. Actually investigate whether your in a 'no fault' state or whether 'you' can counter file under adultery. I know these sound like power games but its a great position if you have the power.

It is great that you have addressed your shortcomings and have confidence moving forward. Do not do the pick me dance. It corrodes all this self improvement that you have done, and also looks less attractive to her. You can bet your bottom dollar that her boyfriend portrays the 'man' around her, and is why she feels attracted to him.

posts: 585   ·   registered: Jul. 4th, 2017   ·   location: australia
id 8583039
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HellFire ( Member #59305) posted at 10:20 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Are any of the kids biologically yours?

Is her previous husband involved in his kid's lives?

Does she work outside the house?

posts: 3703   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8583042
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Wanttobebetter ( Member #72484) posted at 10:24 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

This

But now she has seen beyond shadow of doubt that I can handle adversity like a boss she is completely bewildered and has softened her stance and willing to talk.

doesn't sound sincere to me. Not to hit your self-esteem or anything. But do you think her change of heart has to do with the AP running for the hills than seeing the new and improve you? The 180 shift seems too convenient.

posts: 135   ·   registered: Jan. 6th, 2020
id 8583046
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Sunspot ( Member #74231) posted at 10:35 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Another issue to consider, re:kids is that you will be modelling to them the proper response to infidelity (especially the older ones).

You DON'T want your kids to take the lesson of "oh, you cheat, then there's a rough patch, then everything goes back to normal, no harm done! Totally worth it!"

So if you plan to reconcile, you have to factor in how you're going to get around presenting that message.

posts: 59   ·   registered: Apr. 16th, 2020   ·   location: USA
id 8583052
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Justsomeguy ( Member #65583) posted at 10:43 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

I hate reading new posts. I hate that anyone has to go through this. When you read my response bear in mind I am divorcing. But I feel its God to have a spectrum of opinions. Marriages have problems. I'm willing to bet that if you thought long and hard, you would discover that she was doing a pretty crappy job of meeting your needs. I'm also willing to bet that another vagina was not on your radar as a great method of fixing things. I see a lot of BHs say that they could have been better husbands. Sure. Being a crappy partner leads to divorce not cheating. Being a crappy human being leads to cheating.

You mentioned something along the lines that you WW likes the new you. That's great. Has she considered how you like the new her? If you R, she gets a shiny new husband who meets all of her needs, an upgrade. You, well, you get something entirely different. You may very well R, but be prepared for the whole gamut of emotions before hand. I'm of course biased based on my experiences. I would have really tried R if my WW was a better quality human being, but she wasn't. After I realized that the very best version of her was way below my BAM or bare ass minimum, I cut her loose.

Being single at my age sucks. I'm lonely and sad almost all the time, but I am also at peace. Haven't quite figured it all out, but if I could have saved my relationship and had all, and I mean all of my needs met, I probably would have. I think the low success rate for R stems from what each partner gets. The WS gets it all, or nearly all. They get redemption, a second chance at a new life with a partner whom they trust completely, because they have never cheated. The BS gets the consolation prize, and its second hand at that. Sure, a semblance of trust might return, but it's never the same. They will never feel that they are the luckiest person ever again.

Me:53STBXWW:51DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off.Denied having an affair in court papers.

posts: 1110   ·   registered: Jul. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Canada
id 8583058
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 UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 10:57 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Hellfire: We have children from prior relationships and one child together.

My step children's father is an active role in their lives.

Yes, she works outside of the house - I work at home.

Wanttobebetter:

No offense taken. And I don't think I can trust whatever she said about AP dumping her either.

As to the new and improved me - I don't think it was 180 change of opinion in that very moment. It seemed more like the final bit of evidence that I was not really the man she has led herself to believe and she wasn't prepared for that and melted down in tears.

Enough tears that it seemed hard to fake. But other members have cautioned me on her words.

This forum has been enormously helpful - thank you all so much!

posts: 39   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8583065
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 UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 11:18 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Also... We have all had experiences that led to us being hurt and angry and a whole lot more...we have some strong opinions about the character of our WS and I can fully understand why

My wife....who I have seen through trials and tribulations of our lives - is a good person. I think she did a terrible thing to me and our family...I never imagined she'd be capable - but obviously she is and it hurts like hell.

And I am a good person. I have likewise done some terrible things and made poor decisions I regret. I have also hurt people I loved. But even though I've made mistakes, I remain a good person worthy of love

I believe in redemption. I believe in it because I have walked it a couple times.

If you truly learn from your life lessons and you put in the time to make amends....well...I believe good people deserve a chance at redemption.

My WS did an awful thing. I will judge the decision, the choices she made, the negligence and disregard she showed...I will judge her responses to my questions best I can....but I will not judge her - that's not for me or any human of this earth to do.

If she is truly repentant and truly remorseful and truly snapped out of her fog and ready to embrace the reality of her current household? Well, I am a sucker for redemption stories!

If not? That's it...I move on and apply my gains to someone who is prepared to put in the same effort into a relationship that I am.

Your collective insights will go great length in helping me make an educated decision - thank you all for your time and thoughtful replies!

[This message edited by UnhappyDaddy at 5:32 PM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

posts: 39   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8583079
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Sharkman ( Member #56818) posted at 11:34 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

That's a healthy way to look at it. Another way to word is it that you can't control things that you can't control.

1. She unilaterally dissolved your marriage

2. Only legality represents your marriage now

3. She can do whatever she wants to convince you that she is a good candidate for marriage

4. You are under no obligation to listen to her and your requirements for a safe spouse, who represents to the optimal spouse to you, are yours and yours alone

posts: 1716   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2017
id 8583088
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HellFire ( Member #59305) posted at 11:44 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

I wonder if the other man's wife will agree that your wife is a good person. Do you think the OM is a good person?

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:47 PM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

posts: 3703   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8583092
Topic is Sleeping.
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