Topic is Sleeping.
Anniecake1 (original poster New Member #75224) posted at 3:17 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
I have been with my husband for 8 years and married for 4. I thought we were ecstatically, completely happy. We have a very fun life that involves many common interests and activities. We have two dogs that are like our children. I have two grown children from a first marriage that lasted over 18 years. My husband is 13 years younger and doesn't have any children and has never been married prior. Though we have the age difference, we look and act very similar and most people wouldn't know.
Three nights ago I discovered that he was meeting with a woman his age repeatedly. It has been going on for a month. He was mortified when I caught him of course. He has been remorseful but the most painful thing is he tells me that he has strong feelings for her. He says he still loves me as well and doesn't know what to do. I am blown away and still in shock as I thought we had a very happy and healthy relationship. We have been talking and I have been hearing him say that he is panicking about turning 40 and not having children of his own. We tried when we first got together but I was just past the time and unable to get pregnant. We looked into adopting and then decided that our lifestyle worked better w/o a baby. Of course I've always been concerned that he would later change his mind. I am so completely sad to learn that they have discussed the possibility of having a child together (they just met a month ago!). She has two children, 9 and 16 and is divorced. A couple other big issues are that I am very successful and he has struggled to find his way, always in my shadow. Much more difficult for a man than a woman I believe. Lastly, his mother that he was extremely close to, died suddenly about a year ago. He never really grieved and has kept everything bottled up. I can see how distraught he is but I'm devastated and lost. We are actually selling our house in 2 weeks. We had an accepted offer on another home but I promptly cancelled the contract once I heard this news. We have a vacation place that we will move to until we can figure this out. I just knew that a big purchase wasn't a wise choice at this time. I am the sole breadwinner and he works with me, helping with the business that I had prior to our getting together. I know that I need to protect myself but I want to fix our marriage more than anything. Sorry for the ramble but I just knew I needed to get the story out of my head and into writing in a safe place. It's killing me not having anyone to talk to while we wait for a therapist to get us in.
pearlamici ( Member #67631) posted at 3:24 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
I'm sorry you have to be here...just wanted to say others will be along soon with wise advice. In the meantime read from the healing library (upper left hand corner) ... and take care of yourself.
~Bad marriages don’t cause affairs. Affairs cause bad marriages.~
Buster123 ( Member #65551) posted at 3:55 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
It's killing me not having anyone to talk to while we wait for a therapist to get us in.
I'm sorry that you're here, but you have come to the right place. A therapist while he's still in an ACTIVE A is simply a waste of time and money, this is not an M problem it's an infidelity one and right now you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to work with while the A is still ongoing, btw you did the right thing by cancelling the new home purchase. The path to R or D run parallel up to a certain point, so push him over the fence and dump him, force his hand, and yes, "not knowing what to do", "confused" "but I still love you" are typical responses cheaters use to bide their time and test drive the AP to see if it would work, here's a few of the basics that have stood the test of time:
1) Tell him he's got 30 seconds to send an NC FOREVER text to her, one that you approve, short and to the point(No sweet goodbyes).
2) He needs to offer FULL on demand access to his phone and ALL his electronic devices and passwords FOREVER, no questions asked.
3) EXPOSE the A with ALL family and close friends without warning (very important).
4) Demand he gets tested for STDs (you should too), yes he's been playing russian roulette with your health.
5) Consult 3 of the best D attorneys in your area to know your legal options, while you're at it, ask about a postnuptial agreement that would hold up in court to protect yourself financially in case he cheats again in the future, remember he's now a proven cheater and a liar.
6) He needs to go to IC with someone who specializes in infidelity (very important) to find out his "whys", you may see a different IC to deal with the trauma.
If he refuses to any of the above mentioned suggestions, just file for D and have him served without warning, D takes a long time and can be stopped at any time before it's final if he comes around, or NOT ! by that time you may not even want him back, but either way you would be on your way out of infidelity.
Just curious, you mentioned you had grown children and that you were previously married for 18 years and have been with your WH for 8 years, did your relationship with him begin while you were still married to your exH ?
keptmyword ( Member #35526) posted at 4:16 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
He says he still loves me as well and doesn't know what to do.
He “doesn’t know what to do.”
But, he still loves you “as well.”
Look, when some one willingly betrays your trust, the ultimate outcome is not a matter of what they want to do.
This is a matter of what YOU want to do.
If what he needs to do is not crystal clear to him right now, then what you really should do should be very clear.
Leaving him to mull over whether to pick her or to pick you is utterly and hopelessly futile.
You can’t “fix your marriage” with him because marriage is based wholly on trust and he has willingly betrayed and destroyed your marital trust.
He must fix himself well before there is fixing any potential for a relationship in the future.
There is no remorse on his part.
If he is in a state of not knowing “what to do”, says he “has strong feelings for her“, and is feeding you bullshit excuses about suddenly “panicking” about not having children, then he is anything but remorseful.
I would strongly suggest thinking only along the lines of protecting yourself, protecting your assets, removing yourself from his current world of infidelity, and see how he responds to all that.
If he immediately and permanently abandons all contact with his adultery partner, rejects his “strong feelings for her” as juvenile fantasy, and genuinely commits to moving mountains to find the reasons why he would betray you, then there may be hope.
If he continues the talk of “feelings” for her and the stupid excuses then I would strongly think about cutting this anchor loose.
[This message edited by keptmyword at 10:18 PM, August 20th (Thursday)]
It has nothing to do with you.
Filed for and proceeded with divorce.
ChamomileTea ( Member #53574) posted at 5:06 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
There's two ways you can go about this.. One, you can be super understanding of his fragile male ego, which means doing the "pick-me cha-cha" to prove that he's the man. Or two, you can set boundaries for what's acceptable to you and stick with them. Either way, he's going to do whatever it is he's going to do.
If having a child of his own is that important to him, he's going to eventually leave. Why not find out now so you don't spend the next five or ten years spinning your wheels? Surely it would be better to split now than later so you can get on with your own recovery and not waste precious years you can't have back. And if it's about you being the bread winner, maybe he needs to get his self-esteem on by upping his professional game and earning more money. It's HIS measuring stick right? He's the one who decides his own masculinity, so if he feels like a 'kept man', isn't it up to him to apply himself?
Cheating is NEVER the answer... and it's not right for him to resolve his internal angst at YOUR expense. You haven't done anything wrong, nothing to deserve this kind of betrayal. You didn't cause his problems and you can't fix them. I know you've said you want R, but it takes TWO. At four years in, he's already cheating on you. What will your situation look like at ten years out? What's your financial risk over time? Right now, it sounds like you're making a comfortable living. The longer you're married, the more you owe in most jurisdictions. Have you seen an attorney yet?
I'm really sorry this happened to you. I hope you understand though that cheating is always about the cheater. It's never about us, and because it's never about us, we can't control it or fix it. As difficult and painful as it is though, we do have to protect ourselves and see to the practical matters. Give some thought to seeing an attorney in order to make sure that you've got your financial future covered.
Anniecake1 (original poster New Member #75224) posted at 5:36 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
What do I do next? I told him that the Affair has to completely end now or it is over. He wants to end it in person which I am strongly against and he is adamant about (we wouldn't want HER feelings hurt, after all they've known each other for a full month). Assuming this drags out, what do I do? I can tell him to leave but I know he will say he has nowhere to go and no money. I feel like this is NOT my problem. He made the bed, now he should lie in it. Do I tell his family what's going on? The AP is the best friend of my sister in law. I will call an attorney to get advice. He has agreed to counseling and we are waiting for anyone to get us in. It's the details that I get lost in. What do I do tomorrow?
Buster123 ( Member #65551) posted at 6:08 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
He wants to end it in person which I am strongly against and he is adamant about (we wouldn't want HER feelings hurt, after all they've known each other for a full month).
One last meet up for "closure" also means one last "sexual encounter", how she feels is NOT your effing problem, if how she feels is more important to him than what you need then tell him it's over, all he needs is 30 seconds and do it right in front of you.
Do I tell his family what's going on? The AP is the best friend of my sister in law.
Absolutely, do it immediately and WITHOUT warning for maximum impact. Full exposure typically kills the "beautiful, romantic and exciting" aspect of the A and replaces it with pure shame, embarrassment and ugliness, he's still protecting her and doesn't want her to be viewed as a homewrecker, not your problem either, don't let up now and be firm and decisive.
Buster123 ( Member #65551) posted at 6:14 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
He has agreed to counseling and we are waiting for anyone to get us in. It's the details that I get lost in. What do I do tomorrow?
Take control of the situation, don't do MC right now, he first needs to go to IC with someone who specializes in infidelity to deal with his issues, MC at this point is a complete waste of time and money and gives him the wrong impression.
Again tell him to end it NOW or it's over, you have to mean it, if there's any chance at R, you have to be willing to lose your M in order to save it.
ChamomileTea ( Member #53574) posted at 7:40 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
Agreed with Buster. All your WH needs is 30 seconds to say he was wrong, he loves his wife, and he doesn't want any further contact. Any choice he makes which results in further hurt to you tells you that he's not thinking about YOU, and if he's remorseful, as he claims, he should be. Putting the OW's feelings ahead of yours means that she's his priority. He's willing to inflict further anguish on you to keep her from getting an ouchy. And I get it... WS's are uniformly resistant to leaving an affair with the AP thinking less of them. Bear in mind that for most affairs, this is the candy... the kibbles they get from seeing themselves reflected so grandly through the eyes of an adoring AP. So, even while he's telling you that it's all his fault and he shouldn't be mean to her, he's trying to PRESERVE the kibbles.
So, tomorrow what he needs to do...
1) Write a No Contact letter. It's okay if he apologizes, but it's NOT okay if he expresses affection. You should approve this letter. He should make three points: he was wrong, he loves his wife, he wants no further contact.
2) He needs to arrange for STD testing and he needs to schedule with a therapist to find out WHY his core values don't align with his actions.
3) He needs to become accountable. Work out whatever you're comfortable with, but you should have access to all his tech and he should be letting you know where he is. People feel weird about this, but "checking" is opportunity. Right now, your trust bucket is EMPTY. Every time you check up on him and find nothing, a little drop goes in the bucket.
4) I would suggest a post-nup. You have a comfortable lifestyle and the last thing you need is him cleaning you out because he chooses to cheat. You'll need an attorney for this if it's available in your jurisdiction. But typically, a post-nup would deny him alimony and that sort of thing if you catch him cheating again.
5) Anything else you need. For me, I don't tolerate female friendships anymore. My WH has never had good boundaries with women and I just won't tolerate any more stress from it.
On my DDay, I came out the gate swinging for D. I told him he could split the banking and I'd find an attorney and then I left him to stew. About a week later, he wanted time... 30 days to prove I could trust him. So, after 30 years of marriage, I agreed. The caveat was No Contact with the OW. Of course, three weeks later I caught him breaking NC. At that point, he had about 30 seconds to decide if he was "all in" or "all out", and I meant it too. Any hesitation on his part and I would have decided for him.
I think it helps to look at it from the standpoint that the marriage you knew is OVER. It ended when he cheated. And when you do look at it from that POV, you realize that you don't have anything to lose which isn't already lost.
Anniecake1 (original poster New Member #75224) posted at 7:43 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
Well it is all becoming a lot clearer. I just caught him at 2:30 in the morning, in his car in the driveway, texting. He asked if I was stalking him and then realized that that was a stupid thing to say. He then tried to apologize but I wouldn’t accept. I told him he was making a fool of me and continuing to flaunt this in from me was cruel. THIS was after he said he would cut off contact. Now how an I supposed to sleep tonight? Another night where I suffer for someone else’s actions. For the first time I’ve gone from numb to pissed off.
ChamomileTea ( Member #53574) posted at 7:54 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
Ugh.. I'm so sorry. Have you given him any kind of ultimatum yet?
ChamomileTea ( Member #53574) posted at 7:55 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
At the very minimum, I'd leave a pillow and blanket outside the bedroom door and lock it behind me. No damned way could I sleep next to an actively cheating spouse.
Anniecake1 (original poster New Member #75224) posted at 8:09 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
Chamomile Tea. I just read what you wrote and it all rings so true. He just came up and apologized...AGAIN. It means absolutely nothing to me. I told him that I had three boundaries that weren’t negotiable- 1. Complete break off but NOT in person. I want to see what he sends her and then block her phone number.
2. Individual and marriage counseling
3. Complete transparency
I told him that he had to make his decision by tomorrow or it will be considered a no deal and I’m filing for divorce.
Honestly, being this firm made me feel a bit better. You are right, my marriage is already gone as I knew it. I don’t have anything to lose that isn’t already lost. The legal agreement stating that he gets no alimony should I catch him cheating is brilliant. What a kick in the face to have to pay after also being drug through this torture.
I’m hoping to continue to be strong. I know the reality of this is going to hit me like a ton of bricks eventually. I have yet to cry one tear. I’m literally in complete shock and numb. It is such a weird state to be in.
ShutterHappy ( Member #64318) posted at 8:13 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
No matter how it hurts, have your boundaries and stick to it. The truth is that he is “in the fog”, he’s in love but still wants to keep you. Now that you found the A, he’s trying to put it further underground but, fortunately for you, he’s not very good at it.
He is free to do whatever he wants, date any women he wants, but not as your husband. He makes his decisions and you make yours.
“He earns less money”. Now that he’s cheating does that fix this “problem”?
“His mother passed away”. Now that he’s cheating, his mother came back from the dead?
“He wants children”. So he’ll impregnate some other woman while staying married to you? Does that make sense?
As long as he’s not 100% committed to you, then you take the D path.
Tell his family. But they may not root for you. It won’t solve his lack of character. Tell your family and friends. Let them support you in this difficult time.
Not buying the house was a great move. You are not only successful but you are alsothinking straight in difficult times. Give yourself some time, you’ll be ok
[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 2:18 AM, August 21st (Friday)]
I plan on living forever. So far so good
squid ( Member #57624) posted at 8:18 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
Contact an attorney TODAY. Start separating finances. File first and then start telling friends and family. Nothing kills an affair faster than exposure.
As others have said, if he is still in contact then the affair is still on going. Right now he sees you as someone that will never leave him and is willing to wait until he "wakes up". I guarantee once you file he will at least change his tune. If not, then you really don't have much to save.
The simplest advice would be to dump and run. He's shown you who he is. Believe him.
But if your choice is to try and R, then the affair must be over. Be there when he sends the NC text. No reason to call.
Did your sister in law know anything about the two of them? If she did then she needs to be outed too on some level. You can't consider her an ally of your marriage.
He is currently not meeting any of the basic requirements that others have already suggested. So he's not giving you anything to work with.
Read about the 180 in our Healing Library (yellow box, upper left of this page) and start implementing it. At the very least kick him out of the bedroom.
You are essentially floating his lifestyle. He wants to have his cake (comfy life you provide) and eat it too (side piece). Take away the cake.
You need to fully accept that he is not who you thought he was. Once you can accept that, the way forward will be much clearer. Until then, your heart will try and convince your head that he will magically turn back into the guy you once knew.
Very sorry you're here.
This isn’t what any of us signed up for. But it is the hand that we have been dealt. Thus, we must play it.
ChamomileTea ( Member #53574) posted at 8:37 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
I know the reality of this is going to hit me like a ton of bricks eventually. I have yet to cry one tear. I’m literally in complete shock and numb. It is such a weird state to be in.
You've done really, really well. And yes, you're going to feel wobbly from time to time. That's normal. His arguments will sometimes sound really compelling and your empathy will try to engage. Just remember empathy is for remorseful cheaters, not active ones. If you allow your logic to outweigh your emotions, both mind and heart will be happier later.
The1stWife ( Member #58832) posted at 12:51 PM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
It hurts to be in your “ just found out” position.
What I will Say is that it will hurt you even more to be a doormat and allow him to continue to cheat on you openly. In front of you.
My therapist told me I was the calmest about to be D person he ever met. I deal in reality. I would rather know the truth. Unfortunately I lived in a 6 month period where I did everything wrong during game my H’s affair. And my H planned to kick me to the curb to marry the OW.
It all changed the day I stood up to him. And we did R and we are happy. And I now wear the pants and I back down for no one. I should have done it sooner. If we ended up D b/c of it that sound have been on him - not me.
Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.
Happenedtome2 ( Member #68906) posted at 5:04 PM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
There is no remorse right now. He is still having fun and doing whatever he wants and you're the victim. If you allow the "one last fling" (or closure as he'll put it) you're keeping the door open for him to do it over and over. She'll have some problem that he needs to help her with or some new crisis will arise and he'll have to swoop to the rescue. Hell, my W sent "Do not contact me anymore" and that was the end of her EA. Granted she f'd up again but that's another story. If you give him any leeway here he will keep doing it.
Get your finances in order immediately. Regardless of what happens, you do not want him taking what's yours.
DDay August 2018
Not so sure about R at this time.
My original post :
beenthereinco ( Member #56409) posted at 5:20 PM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
The AP is the best friend of my sister in law.
Have you determined how much the SIL knew about all of this? I think you are going to need to know that. Is this your WH's sister or the wife of his brother or even worse the wife of your brother? Just thinking for me it would be very hard to be around that woman again. I definitely would want to clear the air and understand what she knew and deal with whether I could continue to have her in my life. At a minimum you are going to have to monitor being around her and your WH being around her going forward to make sure that the AP is not going to be a part of any gathering. What a mess. I am sorry.
MickeyBill2016 ( Member #56459) posted at 5:23 PM on Friday, August 21st, 2020
What do I do next? I told him that the Affair has to completely end now or it is over.
If you are lucky a member named Bigger, one of the wisest people on this forum will chime in with a little advice.
In a nutshell he will probably say your goal is to move out of infidelity and you will be doing it with or without your WH. The train is leaving you are on it and H is on the platform deciding what he wants to do.
Texting at 2:30am tells me he's not serious about breaking it off with with hi GF.
9 years married.
13 years divorced.
Topic is Sleeping.