SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

BW said I still have this, and I am asking for help understanding what this is and what she means so I can evaluate my actions against this and change.

What does an active cheater mindset mean to this group?

Thank you

This question is too vague without any type of examples. Has she given you some? Or what were you doing at the time sage said it?

It could be a wide range of behaviors, an endless list. Not being transparent, justifying the affair, being defensive, still lying, just saying the things she wants to hear with no actions behind it, making excuses, not acknowledging her pain, minimizing, I mean I really could go on for a long time here.

Yeah, that encompasses so much.

Does she give you specifics?

It was said in a response to a post I made on the divorce and sep forum. Can he be a good dad thread.

I think too active cheaters mindset and wayward mindset are aslo different.

Because I still had plenty characteristics of a cheater minus the lying hiding etc. Those things are of a cheating mindset.

Idk man.. other than a feeling of woe is me, I didn't see a whole lot wrong with your post. I think you were trying to be genuine, but then again was that for show? Its hard sometimes to truly know when a WS is here for them or their BS, when both are reading/posting.

I used to follow just about every WS that showed up here and spent time investing in their journey. I don't know much about you and where you are. So it's hard to advise and advocate for you.

And then whoah I just looked down at your join date? 2011? What have you been doing all this time? and then, I just looked at your post history and see it was around this time last year you began posting. Hmm.

What is your goal? Where do you see yourself this time next year?

But ya know forgot for a moment what an active cheaters mindset means to us. What does it mean to?

I’m a betrayed spouse. If I said this I would pretty much be speaking about blaming me for shit.

Well. What do you think a cheater mindset is? Truly, what do you think it means?

It sounds like she is saying you lie, hence a cheating mindset

Foreverlabled,

I have been trying to avoid consequences since i joined (Actually my whole life) and lying to myself about change. That is why i made that post when i read that thread, because i keep telling myself I am a good dad and doing the things a good dad should, while conveniently for me ignoring that my lies and cheating are not acts of love and kindness and honest and example, and that I am NOT good. The post wasn’t for her, although I am aware she reads them, it was trying to acknowledge and own that I and any other WH are not and cannot be a good father. I’m trying to own my shit and yes it has taken a very long time and dragged her through hell even more. Not meant as woe is me, it’s fact: I am an asshole and have certainly acted like one.

Where do I see myself in a year? There are two visions and I really don’t know what is real, possible, delusional, or insane. To see myself still with BW minimizes her pain and all I have done and do that hurts her so, and the thought that after all that she would have me in her life is delusional selfish thinking that i can get a pass. So i want to be with her and my family? Most certainly. Realistically, I have no idea. Divorced is probably the realistic answer and i have to let go and come to terms with that, but i don’t want to not try to be a better man and maybe give her reason to want to have me in her life. But i am her abuser, who would want to keep their abuser in their life? I just know, other than I haven’t done what is necessary and right to change. I am in IC, went to my first A.A. mtg last night and am trying to be reliable to her and the kids with actions that are not selfish.

Mickie500 That makes sense, as I do selfishly blame and resent and still act with entitlement, all a cheaters mindset.

I have a long way to go...

LLXC,

After thinking on this a lot I think an active cheater mindset it is acting selfish and with entitlement and putting my needs and desires ahead of hers, and then justifying it and defending it with the same sick rationalization that allowed me to forsake her and my family in the first place, and then not being accountable for my own actions when called on it and avoiding facing the consequences of my actions.

An active cheaters mindset means no R. no remorse, no respect for the other partner. Means I still want to cheat.

An active cheater's mindset is the selective choice of a lack of integrity. At any given time we can chose to make good choices and act with integrity or we can venture down the path of managing our destruction. Like the Cherokee fable of the good wolf and the bad wolf we can gravitate toward feeding the bad wolf. The life of danger and non-integrity can be exciting and can raise your pulse in a way that can feel intoxicating. For me this came together a few years ago in a MLC full of boozing, fast cars and a torrid affair that I was lucky to live through (note my name). A daily life full of the lack of integrity. Now I've chilled out and am much more at peace and comfortable in my own skin.

A good little video is at the "Academy of Ideas" called the "Introduction to Neitzsche". At minute 1:40 I like the line....."within the higher man exists an array of powerful and potent drives and instincts engaged in constant battle with each other. The higher man is a chaotic being who is at constant war with himself".

If I was to base your BW's statement on you post over in D&S, I would agree with foreverlabeled and say that the 'woe is me' would be the message I'm receiving. A self-shame statement. It virtually says that due to your past behavior(s), you are irredeemable.

If your post said "I have been a shitty father due to x, y, and z. But I am changing those behaviors, and I am going to be the good father that I always should have been" that would send the message that yes, I have been a bad parent, but it doesn't always have to be that way. At least that is the way I am deciphering your post.

I always like reading Zugzwang's posts. He'll be the first person to tell you that he was a person of shitty character, but he owned it and changed it. He's confidant that he is no longer that person, and doesn't consider himself 'less than'. He doesn't have to live in the past, but he doesn't have to forget about how he behaved in the past, either.

You don't need religion to be redeemable. You just need to be a person that not only acknowledges their poor past behavior, but who makes continued efforts to change them.

At least that is my $0.02.

WTR, if you're acknowledging that you haven't been a good parent on the forums and then continue to not be a great parent outside of SI, then yeah, I agree with your BW. Having a cheater's mindset means that your words and your actions don't match. So when you acknowledge here that you need to change but then you go abuse or harass your BW again, that's your words and actions not matching.

Are you sticking to the separation and working on yourself like you were suggested to in your last thread? Are you giving your BW peace away from your drama and abuse?

I am trying to accept that my past is riddled with terrible behavior and actions that hurt my family. I was a shitty father because of my cheating, lying and abuse, and selfishness. I am trying to change that through IC and introspection, Coming here for help, A.A. and by trying to model for my children an example of accepting your faults and flaws and trying to change them because it is never to late to be a good person and act selflessly for others. I am no zugzwang, but I aspire to be and will keep on trying to be a better person. Yes I am trying to give her the space she needs with a separation and use them at time to work on myself. Actions are all that matter.

I am trying to accept that my past is riddled with terrible behavior and actions that hurt my family.

If you haven't accepted it yet, then all the stuff you say when you are putting yourself down and calling yourself an asshole is just fluff and stuff. You are being passive aggressive. You are sitting with your arms cross and pouting. Feeling sorry for yourself. Waiting for someone to believe it and or argue against it, to soothe you. Do you get that? Right there. That quote you just typed. That is your truth. That is where you are at. So, stop with the self deprecation because there isn't an ounce of truth to it for you. You don't believe it and it rings hollow. She knows it. You have been saying the same stuff for years. You really don't believe it yet or accept it. You are still in denial and at the root of it, is your resentment. As long as you hold on to that resentment, you will live in denial and never accept the truths about who you became. You continue to blameshift. You will not truly change because you will not take the extra step to be truly disgusted with yourself and who you chose to become. No one here can make you do that. You still choose selfishness and regret. YOU can't change till you accept. It is easy to say the words. I was this...you have to really feel them. You can't if you still say

I am trying to accept

. Why can't you accept it? What is keeping you from taking that step?

YOU have to stop white-knuckling this. You are wasting precious time. Time where you can be truly happy and feel good about the person you are.

I'll give you my perspective as a BS.

An active cheater's mindset - entitlement and looking for value extrinsically. That's it for me. What comes with entitlement is a lot of other behaviors that create a not safe person with whom to engage. The infidelity is a symptom of the core issue. For me, I'm not so worried about my WS cheating again. I am more worried about my WS not living an authentic life for himself and therefore engaging in behaviors that are unsafe for me and for him - whatever they may be. I don't want the new external thing that makes him feel better to end up decimating me again.

The only person that can make you feel better about yourself is you. The more you put yourself down and beg for others to tell you you're not that bad, the more you are actively in a cheater's mindset. And the more these types of behaviors are exposed to your BS, the more glaring the issue and the lack of safety for her by engaging with you. This is the part you need to get. Everything is about you rather than seeing her and her needs. How do you think she feels being with someone who she cannot trust? What do you think she goes through each and every day about her personal worth if her husband can dismiss her so easily and turn to another? Have you thought about any of these things?

Well I’d certainly say trying to bring a female co worker along to a new employer, (after leaving the previous employer for an inappropriate relationship with yet another female co worker, which you gave a pattern of multiple histories of), and then being all minimizing and defensive and justifying and angry about it is “an active cheaters mindset”. But what do I know? My opinion has clearly never mattered to you.

I’d also say lying about attending AA and smugly giving others fake advice to pat yourself on the back with falsehoods is very much a cheater’s mindset.

[This message edited by 3greatkids at 12:23 PM, July 18th (Saturday)]

[This message edited by 3greatkids at 6:23 PM, Saturday, July 18th]

I should have seen that has a boundary and respected my BWs feelings and known that was not appropriate and hurtful and disrespectful. ANd me defending and minimizing and justifying my actions made it a million times worse. I still have an active cheaters mindset and my actions show it.

Why would it be about my boundaries?

You’re the one with the pattern of having sex on your desk at work with married co workers with devastating results.

Why wouldn’t you be holding different boundaries with female coworkers if you are truly “trying” to “change your life”?

Has absolutely zero to do with me.