SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sisoon,

Thanks for the clarification.

I want to say that I endorse Hellfire's and the other posts regarding the appropriateness of N's request and your subsequent obligation to him.

But wouldn't answering each other's questions help with our own healing? We can ask our IC the questions, I'm guessing he will go back soon, but they won't have the real answers. If I have a question about something he did, I would rather get the answer from him, not some hypothetical answer from my IC.

What question(s) would either of you have that is relevant to your individual healing moving forward? Gently, whether either of you cheated once or 100 times, he did this, or you did that, none of that matters anymore because it's over and you are getting a divorce.

I think you guys really need to strictly enforce NC with everything that does not directly relate to co-parenting. There is still too much emotional enmeshment and the lack of boundaries will easily keep you firmly stuck in the past.

I know it is hard and the there is the compelling need to "get closure". But the reality is that closure is something you give yourself. Feeling the need to have these emotional conversations is normal. But you must realize that it is not some much about gaining information that will get you "closure", but rather your reluctance to accept that the relationship is done.

I want to say I'm sorry and I know it hurts. This wasn't your choice, and thus, is not your fault for feeling this way. But you need to stick up for yourself and not allow yourself to be emotionally manipulated. He made this choice, and he needs to follow through. Again, I'm so sorry and wish you peace and strength tomorrow.

Do you guys just make up stuff for entertainment value or what?

I didn't ask LD for anything. I found out her AP lived in an apartment adjacent to us before my daughter was born. He was also the maintenance man there. So yeah, that fucked with my head a bit. One hell of a coincidence! How many BS's wouldn't be affected by that? But because I'm a wayward too, I'm not supposed to feel it? Or ask her about it? Oh and if you're keeping score at home, this time last year was my Dday, so still kinda on the edge.

I calmly told LD what I had found and told her I plan on doing a paternity test. I asked nothing but verification to her story. I didn't ask for a poly and I don't want one.

I'm sure this is a big mistake defending myself here, but oh well. I'm just a wayward with wayward thinking.

I promise I won't ask LD anything ever again about her affair. We are divorcing, why would I care right?

I get guys, I'm the bad guy. But believe or not, I'm trying to do the right thing.

LD,

Please reread my post, and consider how it pertains to what N just did here. ^

LifeDestroyer

I agree with Lostgirl410 - read her post again

Also - Sisson for additional perspective

then - remember life will go on and you will become better and also the future is still unknown - Wishes do sometimes happen given enough time.

edit to fix grammar/spelling

[This message edited by Hippo16 at 8:28 AM, July 23rd (Thursday)]

Not to pile on, but I agree with what others in that a little detachment is probably not a bad thing, for both of you. I completely understand how finding out the AP was that close is a setback. I also understand the desire to get a paternity test based on this new information. If he needs to do that for himself, then let him. I don't think it's unreasonable. You give your approval, and that should be the end of the discussion, to be honest.

N, I'm not sure if you guys are discussing what is said here, or if you're reading your STBXWs thread and reacting. Either way, by coming on here and commenting, you are taking away a safe space for her, and she would do the same to you if she was commenting on your thread, either to you IRL or here on SI. Maybe she agrees with others, but is not even able to say so because she knows you're reading here and it will drive your anger. (doesn't sound like she agrees on this point, but in general, she doesn't have the ability to freely express herself as long as you're reading here) You may not intend to be manipulative, but it does come off as manipulative.

You both probably need to give each other some space. Like, really truly give each other some space. I know this is all still fresh, and emotions are high. I understand the feeling of obligation to still ask, take and answer the questions. At some point though you will need to step back, for your own healing and sanity.

We are trying to detach. It is not easy. Maybe it was a little easier for some of you, but that was because you weren't getting a divorce. In your heart, you still knew there was a huge possibility that you were going to choose to stay with your WS. Only a small portion of you, who are commenting here, have gone through a divorce. It is completely different than a separation after D-Day. This is final. That's it. There's no more marriage. There's no more

relationship with the person you've spent years with. There's no more going out as a family to do things. It's over.

We haven't been discussing what's been said here. He quickly apologized for writing on here, and I told him he didn't have to. I knew he could still come on here and would possibly read my thread, but I wasn't not saying anything or saying anything on purpose to please him. SI was once his safe place too.

You should consider starting a thread over at the Divorce/Separation Forum. I think you may get advice from others going through the same as you.

MrCleanSlate, I would but it seems that only BS make threads there. I've read on it, and I get the impression that a WS isn't really welcome to create or comment there. Maybe that's just my view. I could be completely wrong.

Your thread gave me the courage to post. Thank you.

My WW and I are also MH - mad haters. To a different degree, but seriously, what's normal? I hope it's okay to say that, following your thread, you have grown tremendously. It may not feel like that all the time, but it's clear that you know what you want, and it's clear where your heart is.

N may not be in the same place. He might not be capable of being there. Those are his issues, not yours.

consider how it pertains to what N just did here.

I've read both posts and I fail to see what "N just did here" that any other BH wouldn't have done if he found out the shitstain was living right next door to him when his child was conceived. I would think a paternity test would be the first thing most people would think of in that situation.

Is his crime that he informed LD of his intention to get a paternity test, and should have instead just kept his mouth shut and let LD's daughter inform LD of the paternity test?

I think everyone would benefit if someone would explain, succinctly, without all the theatrics and psycho-babble, what exactly N did wrong.

Try to explain without using ANY of the following words:

Authentic

Boundary

Control

Fear

Healing

Healthy

Security

Toxic

Vulnerable

Work

LD, your story breaks my heart. N's story does too. I think you both are doing the best that you know how. Your daughter's story, still to be written, will be a good one if you both just keep trying to be and do your best.

Divorce has got to be very difficult, unless you’re planning on keeping some kind of emotional connection and attachment beyond that of coparenting. I’m sure lots of people have attempted that. I don’t know how successful that’s been for most people in terms of moving forward: I think that’s pretty declarative of “prior history.”

It’s tough. I imagine it would be so difficult to envision and embrace the idea of “the end” in a relationship where you’ve been together through SO many formative stages. I’ve known my husband since I was 14. I’m 32. It was hard to start the work of R but even harder to imagine the future without him. I love him. What an amazing person he is. Our happy memories far outweighed everything else. But it took some time.

I think it’s been mentioned before that perhaps the two of you are not fully grasping the finality of your decisions. I think that makes sense because you have quite literally grown up together and impacted each other’s development. Same here so maybe some projection here. My husband and I run very deep. Easy to act like teenagers, and maybe in some ways that gives our relationship a lot of strengths - the ability to be silly together, to be adventurous, to really empathize with the hurting kids inside. And yet, we eventually chose to stop letting those hurting kids drive the car, because they were crashing and speeding and unbuckling and trying to cry their way out of tickets. We chose to start doing that together and it’s been just the biggest damn blessing. We let the kids practice, sometimes. But they don’t drive on the freeway or during rush hour, you know what I mean? It makes perfect sense to me why you both may struggle with boundaries because their development in each of you has been greatly transformed by your experiences. We’re all the result of our own experiences and filters, although we do have the ability to choose and transform.

I believe divorce is an end. If I chose to break my vows, then I break my vows. The bond is then concluded. Otherwise, why divorce? And that’s where I think that N struggles deeply, deeply with feeling secure and no wonder. “Maybe this will make me safe. Maybe this will be the magic bullet.” And you, LD, have so much love and burgeoning security that you want to offer. But your STBXH is terrified. I think that he was terrified before you ever met him. Your affair confirmed every bad thing he ever thought about himself. I’m your husband. Well, I was, I’m healing now. And I cheated because of those exact same feelings. They were my own baggage. Thank god I got the opportunity to start a full scale exorcism on myself. I agree with Sisoon: it’s good for N to see how D would be like. I just hope he decides that he wants more and better, because life is short and you need to be moving on ahead. You can’t be his exorcist and you are NOT his demons. You are his wife and you made the coping decisions that you knew how to do. You are looking at why. You are trying something else. You are not the bats in his belfry, honey.

My advice for you? Tell him that you will not be discussing anything outside of present and future circumstances regarding your daughter. Tell him that if he wants to grow up with you, he’s welcome, as you BOTH have growing to do. As do we all! Stuff like questioning paternity, new details? “I’m sorry for your pain.” Divorce is the end of the chapter. A new one is starting, for both of you, and he’s choosing to pain shop instead. You have great compassion, LD. You are allowed to have boundaries and be happy. IMO, he needs to dig deep on why he has such a desire to punish and even the scales. That’s not what marriage is for. Spouses are a privilege. You have such a long history, I identify with your story so much so again, possible projection. I believe IC for both of you and eventual MC would’ve built such a lovely marriage and family. It’s hard for him to put down the pitchfork, I know.

But it doesn’t have to be. You can choose something else and I think you know that, LD. If you divorce then divorce. Or say, no, I won’t, I want you to get your ass into therapy. If he cops out, then you have got to walk away. You are a kind person. He could choose to do the work and maybe things would transform. You keep your chin up.

Just my two cents.

Honestly, N - I think the responses were more about helping LifeDestroyer see that she needs to back away from some of the stuff in her head, where she is still trying to prove her worth to you, where she is still holding out hope on the relationship. She needs to detach and start looking at what her next chapter is going to look like. The fact you came to defend yourself (and are even still reading) on her thread speaks volumes that both of you are still struggling with that boundary. And, I get it, it's awkward at first to let go in that way, but this is what you are saying you want.

And, I can hear LD coming back and defending you because she wants to hold on to anything she can that keeps you connected. She doesn't want us to chase you away from her thread or from her life. But, do you see how she can't get to acceptance under these cirumstances? I think it just comes down to you still really haven't made up your mind despite the divorce. And that's what she is seeing too and holding onto that.

Noone thinks it's weird or unexplainable you want a paternity test now with that new information. Though, I would say to you, do you not really see yourself in your daughter? Really? If the answer is no, then okay I get it. But, if the deep down answer is yes, you can. Then ask yourself about your true motivations here.

People are supporting your wife on HER thread because she needs to let go of you in order to heal. If you were not divorcing, we would be helping her to heal in the circumstances of remaining married. It's time for you to let us encourage her to do that if divorce is really what you want. That means we are going to have to point out things to her that help her to do that.

Oh and goodness, I cross posted and LD did exactly what I said she would do. I really ask you to consider that N. Maybe it would be helpful in seeing that our advice can only be to be a proponent to her on her thread.

If you want support (and I seriously don't think you do because I know you feel we are antagonistic) Get it on your thread. My guess is that many people would identify with and support your struggle as well.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:31 AM, July 23rd (Thursday)]

Neanderthal, if you want advice and support, start your own thread.

Stay off her threads if they anger or trigger you.

Is his crime that he informed LD of his intention to get a paternity test, and should have instead just kept his mouth shut and let LD's daughter inform LD of the paternity test?

I think everyone would benefit if someone would explain, succinctly, without all the theatrics and psycho-babble, what exactly N did wrong.

No theatrics. It is pretty straightforward

Based on what LD wrote:

he started questioning everything again, including the paternity of our daughter.

She provided him information before to his questions. She bought him a paternity test. He requested a divorce, therefore, she she no moral duty to oblige his request(s) for verification or emotionally process this revelation with him. That is what a therapist is for.

I don't mean to sound like a dick, but this is what divorce is. This is what he said he wanted. And that old saying: Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it....well...

This is her thread. So the advice is given to her as a STBXW without consideration of how it will affect her STBXH. They’re tried the one foot in, one foot out approach. It didn’t work. Detangling is in her best interest and what will help her move on fastest. Otherwise, it is just "divorce" on one party's terms. N is doing what is right for him; we are advocating she do what is best for her.

If you love someone and you can’t be with them, the most honorable thing is to them go.

If this was a couple in R. The advice would be different.

[This message edited by KingRat at 5:16 PM, July 23rd (Thursday)]

Today I had to sign my portion of the divorce papers. I sat in my car and signed my name three times. In ten seconds, it was over. When I pulled in, I saw that the car next to me was the exact model of the rental car he has right now. For a second I thought he left work early to be there with me, but it was just an empty car.

I know that we have to detach, and we will but it doesn't just happen. We spent so many years together as one couple. We knew what the other liked and disliked. We knew if we saw a type of candy the other liked, to pick it up. We knew what drink and food to order for the other at a restaurant. He knew what scene in a show or movie would make me cry and would look at me with a pouty face to make me smile. That's a whole life to just completely change. It can't be done with a snap of the fingers. It's going to take time.

We will all be ok. N will be ok. I will be ok. Our daughter will be ok because we will both do everything possible to make sure of that. Do I hope that one day he and I can be around each other and actually feel good? Absolutely! We both had parents who hated each other and who mistreated each other. I don't want that for our daughter, and I believe he doesn't either.

It's easy to tell someone to detach, but it's a lot harder to do it when you know it will be for good. So please, I am asking you all to give N and I a break on that. We know what we have to do. We are trying to do it without hurting our daughter and without hurting each other because we do still care for one another. Just because you get a divorce doesn't mean you have to hate the other person.

LD

Sorry, it has to come to this. Please take care!!!

ETA - N, hope your healing will come soon.

[This message edited by Wanttobebetter at 8:42 PM, July 23rd (Thursday)]

You are in my prayers.

LD, no one is telling you to hate N or that you should be over it by now. We’re giving you advice on HOW to detach and set boundaries.