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Casgo posted 2/2/2020 17:48 PM

30 years. And counting.

faithfulman posted 2/2/2020 18:16 PM

I find it typically only happens when I get caught thinking about how long the A went on and how many choices had to be made each time. How many times she had to choose to betray me. Willingly and excitedly betray me. Over and over and over and over again.

It is one of the the few times i truly think my mind is made up and there is no way. Once it fades I see things more practically again and can see she is trying to work on herself and help me. Of course that may not matter in the end but at least she is trying. Seems a lot of people donít even get someone to do that.

You have it backwards Dranth.

The practical side is the one that is analyzing your wife's cold and calculated multi-year betrayal, continued lies, and damaging end to her affairs, and thinking that the right thing to do is end it.

It is your impractical side - your heart, which hasn't caught up to your head, that is trying t make a case for her remorse and effort to make amends, which cannot equal the efforts she made to betray and hurt you.

***

Your anger is rational and practical.

Your heart wants to believe it isn't over.

Unsure2019 posted 2/2/2020 20:16 PM

Dranth,

Good God!!! Go back and red your first post. She was actively in the affair until the STD test. You are plan B. PERI0D. You are worth more than this. Start taking care of yourself - eat right, go to the gym and get into IC. She is not R material.

Dranth posted 2/3/2020 07:48 AM

Iím struggling with the two different bits of advice I seem to get here. One is run like hell the other is wait as long as it doesnít screw with your own healing/recovery.

So, some additional back ground information that makes this less then straight forward for me, or least makes it more difficult and may shed some light on the situation as a whole.

She doesnít need me for the money and I don't need her. She has a good job and is paid well. She has a good pension, has access to better long-term medical coverage (that lasts for life) and we have no real bills. We are currently on my coverage as my employer pays 100% but the plan was always to move to hers before we retire so we can be covered for life. She is willing to let me keep the house and anything else. She has offered to switch us to her insurance now so even if we divorce, I can be covered going forward on my own once I reach retirement. She has offered to sign whatever I feel I need to ďcoverĒ myself legally from her.

I started checking more of what she told me and so far, it has all been the truth (once it came out a few days past Dday). It looks like it really did happen once about three years ago, again a year later and then every few months on average from there forward. I checked all the phone logs and bills going back, not a single phone call (she said they never talked on the phone). All the texts were about meeting up or not. No emotional attachment, no gifts, no desire to ďbeĒ with the AP, no professions of love, no plans for the future.

She says it was all about feeling wanted and the addiction to that feeling. That me discovering shattered that illusion and now she just feels disgusted by who and what she had become.

She apologizes profusely, has started seeing an IC, takes full responsibility, says she wants to know how she could do this and is completely dumbfounded that she could have done it to begin with. She is available to me whenever, gives me her where abouts at all times without me asking, is willing to do whatever I want in a given moment to help me. She will let me scream at her and take it (got pissed and said some nasty things the other day, she agreed and said I had every right to call her that), get upset and want to hold/hug until it passes. She agrees that she was a shit person and desperately doesnít want to be that person anymore. She doesnít know how she got there and doesnít want to stay like that.

The problem I am having is that she is doing everything right at this point. I see from reading here how rare that is or how long it can take. Within a week of me finding out she had it all out laid out there and had already started doing the work. Her actions say she desperately wants to try and R. It seems like it would be foolish to throw that away this soon.

I have zero intention of granting her an attempt at R until I am 100% sure that is what I want and I wonít even consider that until at least 5/6 months out. Even then, I have told her the chances arenít great and she says she understands and hopes I will give her a chance but completely understands if I donít and isnít giving up until I tell her it is done. For me, I feel like I would always wonder if I didnít at least see. I can work on myself for now. I can prepare my life for whatever lies ahead, accept either outcome and see where it leads in the meantime.

I see a lot of people who say run now, get out and I know all of these are based on what happened to each of us, but whenever I think about it logically it makes so little sense. Hell, as dumb as it sounds, IF she is telling the truth about how she feels and backs up her words with action, she is less likely to do this to me again than someone new. Not a reason to stay but an odd idea nonetheless.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling post but getting this out helps me think it over and I am always interested in what others think/say as they may well see something I am missing or if it really is for some people this is just an automatic deal breaker with no doubts, questions or forgiveness possible.

fareast posted 2/3/2020 08:18 AM

Dranth:

You are very early on from your DDay but your analysis is spot on. There are two ways out of infidelity: R or D. Both are legitimate options and you will receive support no matter what you choose to ultimately do. You will get a range of opinions here. Take the advice you can use and leave the rest. For some, as you have seen, any infidelity is an immediate dealbreaker and D is the only option. That is a very legitimate and real option. It s true for many. For others, R is at least a possibility if the WW does a ton of work on herself and your relationship, and if you are open to it. But you are on an emotional rollercoaster immediately after discovery and it will take you time to figure out what you really want. Can you get past it? Some can and some canít. Everyone is different as you see in the responses. Your perspective will change day to day as you go through stages of rage, despair, and love for your spouse. Time is your ally to sort this out. Always watch her actions and not her words. Trust your gut.

It appears you WW is making baby steps toward attempting to demonstrate remorse. She needs to be in IC to figure out how she ever got so broken that she could betray you in this manner. She needs to get at her ďwhyísĒ if she ever hopes to reestablish any trust in her. Always watch her actions and not her words. It appears your WW is a very common cheater motivated by the need for outside attention and ego kibbles. Check out the posts of BeyondRage whoís WW also took early immediate steps toward remorse without defensiveness. It is rare, but not unheard of.

Most importantly, take care of you. Get IC if you need. You need to heal and become stronger. Your WW can help you heal but you must also deal with this yourself. Checkout whether a postnup agreement in case of D is an option you wish to pursue. Take your time and figure out what you want. Even if she is remorseful and totally committed to R, getting a D may be the path you choose. Itís your decision. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 1:39 PM, February 3rd (Monday)]

faithfulman posted 2/3/2020 10:55 AM

Hell, as dumb as it sounds, IF she is telling the truth about how she feels and backs up her words with action, she is less likely to do this to me again than someone new.


I read about "the chances" of new mates cheating more or less than the prior mate cheating all the time.

The problem with this line of thinking is it treats cheating as if it is just rolling the dice.

It's not just a game of probability. Someone who can deceive you for years and transfer an STD is simply different from someone who won't do that.

You have to look hard and your life over the past 20 years and honestly evaluate who your wife was, to give yourself a better chance by looking for someone based on what you have learned.

***

Maybe your wife won't do it again. There is a pretty good "chance" that she won't do it again for a while, at least until things cool down.

But the other change is in you - what are the "chances" that you can ever truly relax around your wife again, trust her to be out of your sight for any period of time?

For that matter, now that you are "woke", the chances that someone new can pull the wool over your eyes like your wife did are smaller.

***

But I can tell you that a new woman in your life has a 100% chance that she didn't betray you with a waiter and various other degenerates, ultimately passing along to you an STD.

So I the ultimate question is not "will she do it again?", but "can I live with the person who did this to me?".

Only you can answer that question. But I don't think I could do it, and I don't think you should do it.

You have too much life in front of you to commit to someone who did something this monstrous to you.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 11:00 AM, February 3rd (Monday)]

sorryforeverythi posted 2/3/2020 11:37 AM

The only thing I would add is that there are many ways to communicate with someone that will leave no trace.
Erasing apps on your phone.
Google Hangouts
Hidden emails
Just because they aren't on text or phone logs doesn't mean that she didn't have some other means of talking to him that you haven't discovered yet.
My ex used Signal that ran on her phone but connected through their system so there wasn't any way to see it was happening or read old interactions.

KingofNothing posted 2/3/2020 11:44 AM

Quick question for those that have gone through this, how long did it take you to let go of the hate? I donít feel it all the time but every now and then I just get hit with a wave that is almost crippling. Just the urge to tell her to pack her stuff and get out.

For me, three years. Realistically, I could still be that way if I didn't change something fundamental inside myself. I don't want to go through my life carrying that weight. That angry, hurt man is still there... I can't promise you you won't be triggered by this for the rest of your life. I know I didn't want to hate any more. It's better to be indifferent. Indifference is a blessing. You are already showing signs of stress related health trauma (based on a previous post). Believe me, that won't improve if you don't take your own steps. For me it was meditation and therapy. Many people advise weight lifting and other exercise as a way to exhaust the emotions.

The real answer is it depends on the person. I can truly say I don't hate her. Our interaction is so minimal any more I almost enjoyed our last conversation, brief as it was. Wasn't triggered one bit.

The problem I am having is that she is doing everything right at this point. I see from reading here how rare that is or how long it can take. Within a week of me finding out she had it all out laid out there and had already started doing the work. Her actions say she desperately wants to try and R. It seems like it would be foolish to throw that away this soon

Dranth.. you need to come to terms with the fact that a woman can appear to be entirely remorseful, work her ass off, and demonstrate conclusively that she will put the work in for R.... and STILL you will not want to participate with her. There are some hurts that cannot heal that easily. My observation is the longer the affair, the harder it becomes to reset to zero. Nobody would think ill of you for refusing to give her the gift of reconciliation if that proves to be the case. Always remember that... she may work her ass off and try to become a better woman. Still, at the end of the day this was always your call.

redfish posted 2/3/2020 13:58 PM

I'm glad your WW is sorry for what she did, that's a good start. That's one step on your her part. Now there is a lot to do on your part, a lot to for you to learn so she knows you are serious.

I sympathize on how you feel and how you may not want to throw it all away, all the history and memories you had. You don't have to throw it away today. Maybe 30 days from now. Maybe 6 months from now.

One way I look at it is that you and her are dating now. It's a new relationship. She needs to win you over, not bamboozle you with lies and whatever. Would you continue to date her if she pulled this stuff on you?

SlapNutsABingo posted 2/3/2020 14:08 PM

But I can tell you that a new woman in your life has a 100% chance that she didn't betray you with a waiter and various other degenerates, ultimately passing along to you an STD.

So I the ultimate question is not "will she do it again?", but "can I live with the person who did this to me?".

Brilliant!

demonstrate conclusively that she will put the work in for R.... and STILL you will not want to participate with her. There are some hurts that cannot heal that easily. My observation is the longer the affair, the harder it becomes to reset to zero.

Equally brilliant!
Now I'm torn....I declare a tie...

Stevesn posted 2/3/2020 14:29 PM

Dranth
Every situation is different. Every person is different. And From my perspective as the reader, I might even give different advice one day to the next depending on my own emotional connection at the moment.

If it were me in your shoes, I think what I would do is ask her if she wants to work to rebuild your relationship. If she does ask her to convince you why she wants that if her actions in the past only showed that she actually devalued your marriage.

If she does and sheís convincing, I would not promise her anything. Not even promise her to try and rebuild with her. But Iíd ask her if sheís willing to try and rebuild even if you are going thru the D process.

If she says should would be willing to do that then I would start to initiate the D process. If you are in a state that can use lower cost mediation, get that process started. Let he know that this process will either lead to a D or a Post-nup that you both sign and at this point tell her you are not committing to one or the other.

Then tell her that her actions destroyed the Marriage so that a D is completely appropriate. But that you are willing to listen, observe and interact with her to see where her actions take you and how you feel about them over time. You donít know how you will feel 6 months, 1 year, 2 years from now about her. A lot of that depends on how committed she is to becoming a better, safer, different person.

If when the D goes thru you want to stop it because of that work, you can. If you want to let it go thru but continue to work on the relationship you can but at least you will have reasonable terms of the D. If you want to let the D go thru and move on, you can. If you want to work toward Reconciling but never marrying again you can.

The important thing is having all options open.

So Iíd tell her you are giving her a chance, but that doesnít mean you are holding off on legally ending the M she destroyed then it will be up to her to show that you are truly worth working her ass off to fix herself and help you heal even if your M is legally ending.

Just my thoughts. I wish you well.

nekonamida posted 2/3/2020 16:39 PM

Dranth, at least get a post nup. For WSes who cheat over a long period of time, the danger zone of it happening again is rarely immediately after DDay. It's years from now when the rush to R has worn off, when you and her have gotten more comfortable, and especially when there's lingering issues from the A. It's then that the temptation for excitement starts back up and she might stray again. Maybe she'll do the work and won't. Maybe she will sort of do the work and cheat again. Unfortunately WSes who act like she does but cheat again years later are not uncommon. Read more and you will see plenty of BSes coming back thinking they had been in a successful R.

What's most important in this aftermath is protecting yourself. She's willing to do what she needs to right now. Don't feel bad taking her up on that offer. You need a plan B in case this all goes south or even if R is not for you.

Trdd posted 2/3/2020 17:49 PM

In a horrible situation at least it seems like you have options. D is always one. A healthy R is not if your WS is acting like a selfish, non accountable pos. Your last post indicates she is literally doing almost everything right to try to improve. Take the time you need to assess if she will do it for the long term, if it is real and sustainable. Then, if you can live with what happened and somehow find forgiveness to build anew then R might have a good chance. If you decide otherwise at least you will be able to D relatively amicably if she stays in the accountable mindset she is in now.

RocketRaccoon posted 2/3/2020 21:18 PM

Dranth,

The problem I am having is that she is doing everything right at this point. I see from reading here how rare that is or how long it can take. Within a week of me finding out she had it all out laid out there and had already started doing the work. Her actions say she desperately wants to try and R. It seems like it would be foolish to throw that away this soon.

Your WW is doing everything right now, because she had been caught. What if she had not been caught, how long do you think she would have stayed with her boyfriend?

Your DD is quite recent, and so, it is easy for your WW to 'do the right things' at the moment. The test is, how long will your WW 'do the right things'? Will she be able to keep this up for the rest of your lives? Will she falter? Is her strength of will strong enough to keep this from happening again, to make herself safe for you?

Basically, it is too short a time for you to say that she is safe for you, based on your current observations. I would argue that this is unproven, as the data is not substantial enough. You will need more time to come to that conclusion, as she had betrayed you for three years, without a thought for you nor your safety/health.

You have been given great advice, and hope you will consider some of them at least. The parallel running of the D and R is a good option, as it allows you to manoeuvre, whilst locking down the WW. You will be in control of the timing and direction.

Westway posted 2/4/2020 15:26 PM

Take more time to suss her out. Time is on your side, not hers.

Be glad you have a WW who is at least trying. Mine admitted to me straight up she would not be able to remain faithful to me.

longsadstory1952 posted 2/4/2020 20:33 PM

I wish I could kidnap you and put you in a deprogramming hospital. She was someone else's booty call for three years, gets and gives you an incurable std, lies, lies, then lies more. When she runs out of lies, the worst being that she held back on boinking her boyfriend a week before dday, she now suddenly is trying? And you are really buying her new found remorse?

Of course she is trying to rope you in. What else do you expect a diseased adulteress to do but go for plan B?

Every quote you give of what she is saying is full of self protection. Splash some cold water in your face and look in the mirror. You deserve so much more than this. What in the world are you hoping to save here?

I don't normally come on this strong, but I see you selling yourself out. For what? It makes me cray cray.

Buffer posted 2/4/2020 20:40 PM

Brother
Every one is her to help, but only you can make the call on what is best for you. Take the time to evaluate your circumstances, the positives and negatives for you! Not you and WW, but you.
She banged for three years, you take as much time as you need. R is a hard road, D is just as hard.
What am I saying?
Nothing but support for you.
Buffer

Dranth posted 2/20/2020 11:31 AM

Just a quick update.

Iím feeling frustrated.

I get it, it has only been a month and a half and I know I gave myself a minimum of three months to make a decision (with the expectation of it being more like six), but I really feel like I am at an impasse right now. She is doing the right things for the most part and saying the right things but I just donít feel like I am making any real progress towards knowing what I want. Stay or go? It changes by the hour/minute and doesnít seem like it will ever stop flipping all over the place.

So, the good.

She has been there whenever I needed her. She offers to stay with me when I am upset but doesnít complain when if I ask her to leave. She has kept me up to date on her location. Has taken full responsibility for what happened and does not try to shift blame to me in anyway. She has been willing to let me vent and has managed to not bite back for the most part (had a couple of times where she started to get defensive about things indirectly related to what she did but has been trying to learn from that and has apologized quickly each time). She says she hates what she did, is disgusted by it and who she became and never wants to be that person again. Will never be that person again. That she didnít know what she had and was too stupid to see that what she really wanted was there all along.

She started IC and dumped the first one as that therapist tried to pin some of the blame on me. She left and found a new one that she is now seeing who actually specializes in infidelity. She answers everything I ask and has not once lied to me since the full story came out. I have verified more of the information she has given me through third parties and by slowly going over the backlog of recovered data from her phone (current and older ones).

She has agreed to a post nuptial giving up any claim to the house and splitting the rest of our assets as we have discussed (we are currently in the process of getting that in place). She has shown a side of herself I have rarely ever seen and has actually started to open up in a way that I am surprised about. I was not expecting that at all from her. She seems genuine in a way that I have not felt in a long time and has been pretty consistent with all of this no matter my mood or disposition each day.

The bad.

When it really hits me, the enormity of what she did, I feel like there is ZERO chance I will ever get past this. It is too much, too painful and that is enough to wipe out every last spec of positive. Whatís worse, to even consider trying to work it out makes me feel shame. Like I am compromising myself. What the hell is that about?!??!?!?! I didnít do anything wrong and I can walk anytime I feel so why feel shame in letting things play out?

Meanwhile I continue to work on myself. I have been back in contact with friends I have not talked with in years. Continue to lose weight. Started some basic weight training and some lite cardio. Still need to learn to cook better but it is in the works.

[This message edited by Dranth at 11:34 AM, February 20th (Thursday)]

MickeyBill2016 posted 2/20/2020 11:46 AM

She says she hates what she did, is disgusted by it and who she became and never wants to be that person again."

Funny how people have a come to Jesus moment. She was pretty much content with making the 1000s of decisions to to bang the waiter for 3 years only until she gets and shares an STD.
But now she hates herself when the shit hits the fan. Right now she is disgusted (more like embarrassed) and if not for giving you and STD she would have gotten away with it and still be doing it.

Take your time. You have a get out of infidelity card, you can leave at anytime without blame or shame
She will be on super best behavior for a while until the "Haven't I done enough, it's in the past let it go.." frame of mind emerges.

IF you can - take 6 months to decide you may not (or may be) able to live with her 3 years of a dual life.

ETA- I don't know if fucking another person with no emotion is any better than an emotional attachment. If it was just a booty call, then she was willing bang a random dude. Anybody. Just a guy who isn't you...

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 11:50 AM, February 20th (Thursday)]

Marz posted 2/20/2020 11:52 AM

Time will bring more clarity. It always does if you see what is versus what you want to see.

[This message edited by Marz at 4:48 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]

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