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Strong woman...or just a bitch

Pages: 1 · 2

HeHadADoubleLife posted 5/29/2019 23:41 PM

In many ways I feel that people think they are synonymous, so I have absolutely no problem with being a "bitch." If acting strong, demanding respect, being brutally honest and enforcing boundaries makes you a "bitch," then I'm fucking Meredith Brooks!

Before the asshole SAXH, I absolutely never let a guy buy me a drink, unless it was one of my already established group of guy friends - they're a different story. I had two go-to moves when offered a drink. I was careful to decide which move to use based off of my first instincts about the guy.

The first move was for the guys who I felt like were just players. You know the type - the ones who you've seen chat it up with multiple different women in the time you've been at the bar/restaurant, kind of a predatory vibe, walks up super full of himself. Especially the guys who come at you with a corny line. No matter how attractive a guy is, that kind of behavior is such a huge turnoff!

Whenever those guys offered me a drink, I would say "I'm perfectly happy to have a conversation with you over a drink, but I buy my own drinks. Also, I'm going to be honest with you, I'm not going home with you tonight. Knowing that you could have a great conversation with me, but definitely no sex, do you still want to talk?" This would automatically weed out many of the creeper dudes who were just looking to get laid. I literally had some guys just give me a look and turn around without saying a word. Fine by me, problem solved!

This way, I'm not outright turning anyone down - who am I to judge, maybe this guy who has been circling the bar talking to every woman there is actually a great guy? First instinct says no, but I'm leaving it open to see what kind of person he is. Yes, I would get the occasional guy who felt like he had something to prove and would buy me the drink anyway, then take it as a challenge and try to get me to hook up with him. But more often than not, the ones who stuck around after that line were actually at least interested in a real conversation.

The second line was for someone I was actually interested in from the get go. The kind of guy who was really just there hanging out with his friends, but you have made eye contact with each other a few times, and he finally got the courage up to come talk to you. When that guy offered me a drink, I would say "I don't let guys buy me drinks, but if you still want to talk, I'll buy you one." If he felt weird about a woman buying him a drink, I saw that as a "strong women need not apply" sign plastered over his head, and it was a non-starter. If they were open to me buying them a drink, more often than not they were a pretty cool dude. Many times those conversations wouldn't lead anywhere romantic, but I would at least get to hear some interesting stories and have a fun night. Sometimes they did get flirty, but I always felt like I had at least filtered through the bullshit enough to know that he wasn't some machismo asshole with a fragile ego, so I felt safer being open with a guy like that.

I still feel like it's the best way to handle the at-a-bar meet-cute nowadays. So many men complain about "I bought her drinks all night, what a waste, she didn't even go home with me." This puts the ball in their court from the get go either way. You can't say I didn't warn you!

Gonna have to get back on the dating horse at some point so I'll have a chance to use these again and see how it pans out 7 years later :/

Furious1 posted 5/30/2019 06:37 AM

In many ways I feel that people think they are synonymous, so I have absolutely no problem with being a "bitch." If acting strong, demanding respect, being brutally honest and enforcing boundaries makes you a "bitch," then I'm fucking Meredith Brooks!

Absolutely this!

barcher144 posted 5/30/2019 07:27 AM

If he felt weird about a woman buying him a drink, I saw that as a "strong women need not apply" sign plastered over his head, and it was a non-starter. If they were open to me buying them a drink, more often than not they were a pretty cool dude.

I have never offered to buy a woman a drink... so this is totally a theoretical question.

What if I had asked that you let me buy round 1 and you buy round 2 (or vice versa)?

BobPar posted 5/30/2019 11:43 AM

Iím not really fishing - not dating, not proactively seeking to do so...so maybe the scenes/opportunities I am finding are not really conducive to true relationship.

truthsetmefree , is it just this setting that could be the issue? I don't do well in a bar setting. I'm average height, I am not an extrovert. It's not my thing. Put me in a different setting and I am fine. What is your experience with other hobby or interest settings?

Iím stuck in this ďidentity crisesĒ. I donít know that I *could* play this differently even if I tried. After all this time, Iím kind of realizing that I am who I am. I donít know that I would *want* to attract someone that doesnít appreciate me for who I truly am.

How is your self care going? What could you do this week to love yourself? What do you want and need right now?

[This message edited by BobPar at 11:44 AM, May 30th, 2019 (Thursday)]

LilBlackCat posted 5/30/2019 12:09 PM

Iím more than likely the girl thatís actually interested in *you*. Not in you as the potential relationship or hook-up....just the girl thatís interested in getting to know you as a person. I know I ask meaningful questions because Iím truly interested in life experiences...what youíve done, what youíve learned, how life has shaped you. I absolutely come alive when someone speaks authentically, deeply...like a passion that can be contagious. And it often carries the conversation of the whole. I have their interest...because, after all, who doesnít like to talk about themselves?
I have found this to be a rare way of being... The last few women I briefly talked to.. Were so much into only really delving about themselves.. sometimes even ignoring my replies about my common experiences or stark differences in opinion.
I go home and wonder why Iím not fuckable. I mean, I am. I know that I am. At least in terms of physical attractiveness.
I agree, that the men you have had gotten the pass from.. After the convo, were likely married and just looking for a hook up... Without any convo whatsoever.. They must really think your friends are bimbos. No offense.

HeHadADoubleLife
When that guy offered me a drink, I would say "I don't let guys buy me drinks, but if you still want to talk, I'll buy you one."
This would definitely catch me offguard.. Lol! I would at least offer to cover the next round.

Granted, I need to get out more. Lol!

BeStill posted 6/1/2019 04:29 AM

Your whole post really resonates with me, especially your description of happy hour with your girlfriends.

I think there is a mismatch here and I come to that conclusion based on my own recent experiences. You are smart, engaging, authentic - but that's not what these guys are looking for. They want easy, because easy is quick and means little to no effort on their part.

I was recently out at a huge Irish pub with about 10 girlfriends. This place was PACKED with men due to a sports event on the big screens. I could feel the eyes on us - we are all attractive in our own way and were laughing and having a great time. It wasn't long til two guys came over and introduced themselves, asked what the occasion was, etc. The interaction was pleasant and I am fluent in witty banter so the more forward one stuck with me and the reticent side-kick watched.

As soon as I broached an actual topic (he was new to Germany for his job, what were his impressions?, what did he miss from home?), there was a shift. I could sense that he wanted the banter, not the topic. If I had made that shift back with him, signalling that I was not interested in him as a person, we could have easily ended up hooking up (if I did that sort of thing). I sort of reduced the intensity at that point and observed.

He moved on to the surgically enhanced friend of a friend, who seemed much more "willing".

So, I went home later feeling somewhat "unfuckable" as well. But it's a mismatch, I tell ya!! That pub was not filled with my people! You won't find a luscious steak at McDonald's and that is NO reflection on you.

This is how I imagine it for people like us: a completely coincidental, natural, organic brush with someone in some random, everyday place. A thrilling moment of eye contact, casual conversation that becomes one of those hours-long, hardly-come-up-for-air talks and....we're off to the races.

We will get there.

josiep posted 6/3/2019 13:12 PM

The bigger question is, would you be happy with a guy who doesn't DEMAND a strong woman?

I just went overseas with a cousin I'd never met in person but let me tell you, I know what kind of man I'd want if the day ever comes that I leave my house for more than groceries. And it will be a man who can have a real conversation, a deep discussion. My cousin could talk about so many things and he did so in depth. For instance, when he talked about the history of a place we visited, he knew the history, not just a few fluff facts about it. I loved it and we talked and chatted constantly the whole trip.

And I suspect you'd need the same, Truth. As you know, I admire you greatly and your writing ability is second to none. But yeah, that limits the number of men who can be your equal. But they are out there, just might be hard to find cuz they tend to spend their time reading and thinking. I'm thinking maybe a MeetUp group for a Book Club or a philosophy club or a group that meets to go to historical sites. That sort of thing.

Or, I could fix you up with my cousin.

OuttaCoffee posted 6/4/2019 22:34 PM

TSMF, maybe you ARE fuckable, but once you start asking all of your questions (aka revealing your intelligence and highly evolved mind),the man realizes his "prowess and boyish physique" are nowhere near enough to get you to drop your pants. So he loses interest and drifts toward the giggly flirty friend.

Strong women are a valuable and exceedingly rare commodity. Combine that with intelligence and even a hint of beauty and you have an irresistible package.
I couldnít tell you much about the bar scene. I donít do them. But I did them long enough to know very little good comes from them. The same goes with casinos. I also know one is not likely to find one of the previously mentioned gems or those appreciative of such gems in an edifice such as that. What one typically finds are those that excel in short term relations in both genders. Ultimately itís a self defeating cause in seeking conversation with folks that are present only for public and/or immediate gratification.
There are other venues to seek those that genuinely do appreciate the qualities you possess. They do take more time and patience, but are worth it. And yes, there is still weeding required in any meet market, but it has been absolutely worth it in my own case.
After numerous duds and ill fits (including one that actually knew what and where the Carpethians are) I found one that knows how to handle, train, and subdue 1200 lb beasts of burden, genetics, finances, and even dabbles in the abstracts of quantum mechanics. Such was the evolution of our initial conversation, and itís only gotten deeper since. In addition, she is absolutely fuckable on top of it all, but can be jaw dropping elegant when situations dictate.
Worrying about whether or not youíre fuckable to some bar flypaper shouldnít be the focus. Enjoy who you are and what attributes you possess. Sooner or later that appreciative guy will present himself. They are out there.

[This message edited by OuttaCoffee at 10:36 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)]

barcher144 posted 6/5/2019 08:28 AM

The bigger question is, would you be happy with a guy who doesn't DEMAND a strong woman?

I think this is the answer. You just have to find the right person.

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