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I will take the advice, however, regarding counseling. As I said, I spoke with an IC and she might even see me over the holiday weekend. I'll know tomorrow if that works for her.

I will see what I can do about meds that would actually work for me without becoming an addictive crutch (nor limiting my ability to function properly at work).

Right now, my hobbies consist of conniving and fantasizing about utterly destroying POSOM, (which has, in fact, been pretty therapeutic), contemplating if I'll masturbate while crying, and trying to be a good dad the few moments that I can actually focus on the kids and not hate myself.

I probably do need new hobbies. I also need to win the lottery so that I can invent new hobbies for myself and others.

Have you done any Mindfulness training? Many trauma therapists recommend it. It's even noted in Bessel van der Kolk's The Body Keeps Score, which is perhaps the most definitive work today in trauma study.

The good thing about Mindfulness is that it's relatively easy to learn and practice at home, so it's something you could start now, today. There are all sorts of online resources and books. There are even apps you can download for meditation. A very short book you could try would be The Miracle of Mindfulness by Thich Nhat Hanh, I downloaded it and read it same day, although I do re-read it from time to time.

Trust me, I get it. I know how exhausting it is working and taking care of toddlers. I have 3 kids myself, with the youngest being 9 months, plus I work 45 hrs a week. You don't have to go to the gym to take care of yourself. And you don't need new hobbies either. Doing things you enjoy can be as simple as watching a funny movie or playing with your kids or reading a book. Your WW can certainly pick up the slack while you get a little "you" time. It's the least she can do after all she's put you through. Also, there are lots of psych meds out there that aren't addictive and won't affect your ability to work. Your family doctor can probably prescribe you something. That's who prescribed my Prozac, which was a lifesaver for me. I too have struggled in the past with suicidal thoughts and depression as well as anxiety. Treat these issues the same way you would a broken bone or a deep cut. You wouldn't just limp around or let yourself bleed out. Right now, that's what you're doing except it's mental wounds, not physical ones. But that doesn't make them any less real. I'm so sorry you don't have supportive friends or family to lean on through these dark days. That's why it's even more imperative that you see a therapist regularly. I've got my fingers crossed for you that you'll be able to see her this weekend!

Hi gentle dad.

I'm sad to hear that your work isn't what you hoped it would be. In those times when your thoughts are going around and around the body is making stress. It happened to me so often as well. Especially at night I was dreaming horrible things.

Please take a break from those thoughts. They come around often enough that you can say to yourself

Just for 20 minutes, I will bring my mind to ( whatever it is that you choose but it has to be positive) I memorized Shakespeare or other poetry. I listened to hockey podcasts or listened to symphonies and followed certain instruments or orchestra sections. Your brain needs a break.

You don't have to figure this out right now. You just have to let your life come to some level where you can live and sleep and be a present father for your kids. Your wife works on herself right now. I'm concerned about you. I don't want you living with angry feelings and sadness and worry. Life will sort itself out. You will find the best path. Sure it's a tangle now.

If you're tired, you don't have to head for the gym. But please do some activity when you get out of the car, a few minutes of fast walking or whatever it may be. Moving your muscles will burn up stress chemicals and will give you more peace than if you don't do anything. It doesn't feel like much but it is actually doing a lot of good on the inside and if you train yourself to handle stress through movement and through mindfulness, meditation and breathing you will build new pathways in your brain so you can calm down faster. At first it takes time, but as you repeat, you get to calm quickly and the unhappy thoughts take a break so you can rest.

I'm happy you are here. If friends and family aren't helpful please come here as much as you need. Come and laugh on the off topic sections sometimes when you want to take a break from the why's and what now's and what's next.

You're a good man. I know you'll get through this time of difficulty. Everyday look for some good. It might be small but it is there. Hold onto that and take one step at a time.

I'm a little late but this seemed to get glossed over a few pages back.

WW had said those exact words to me at least a week or so ago, as well as on the timeline that (for the most part) seems to be completed until further TT.

Of couse it seems complete. She's only admitting in her timeline what she knows you already know. That's what makes the TT lies hurt so much worse. She's playing you. It's entirely up to you whether or not you let yourself be played, and it appears you are willing to accept it.

It's entirely up to you whether or not you let yourself be played, and it appears you are willing to accept it

Are you saying that since I'm open to the potentiality that it's TT (and not letting myself possibly maintain a false sense of security that it's all out there, therefore, not giving a chance to be AS dismayed by an occurrence of TT), I'm letting myself be played?

Rubix cubes are a bit more linear than chess, where you need to be at least 5 steps ahead of the other person's potential strategy-shifts, dontcha think?

so are you saying you are 5 steps ahead ? Show us that

so are you saying you are 5 steps ahead ?

No, what I'm saying is that I'm remaining cognizant & aware that the possibility of more coming out as TT is a very real possible scenario, which is why I'm not allowing myself to believe that there's nothing more to discover.

You're doing fine. Recognizing that she could be, or even is most likely lying, is the best thing you can do. Verify the things she tells you, watch what she does not what she says, and think about how you can verify this story further. You've already shown yourself to be pretty resourceful on figuring things out.

SD,

You wrote, LOL! And I mean that in the most sarcastically snorting of ways. Orthodox Rabbis rugsweep - and ACTIVELY advocate BS' to rugsweep swiftly and fully - worse than anyone else in the goddam world.

Possibly not the worst but different, in every born again and other church my W has been in, I know of hiding of affairs. I think it's common in any organization where the people in charge worry excessively about appearances.

The Church leadership seemed to believe they can read a few bible verses to the cheater and since Jesus forgave they forgive unconditionally, without even guilt.

I think it's common in any organization where the people in charge worry excessively about appearances.

Exactly!

Which is why I snorted at the thought of speaking to my local Orthodox rabbi.

Although, in Judaism, it's believed that sins against other people can only be forgiven by those other people, there's the side of those sins that was against Gd, so the assumption made by rabbis is that if the effort to repent of your own ways is made and the injured party is no longer thinking actively about the injury, by default it's been "forgiven."

Which is why they sickeningly advocate for rugsweeping.

You have your eyes open. I don't think you are in some fog and don't see what's before you. TT hurts. She must be scared inside or ashamed and hiding. Sometimes even arrogance is a cover up for fear deep down. I hope she comes to full honesty with you soon. That would be good for everyone.

My WS is still keeping some things to himself but he has much pride and embarrassment. I wish he could trust me but for now he can't. Maybe later he will. I look at it like a stray cat you tame. Trust gets built slowly. Either we get to full trust or we don't. I tell him I want his honesty often enough. R is in his hands but he knows I won't wait forever. It's full R and full honesty that I need from him. For now, I'm working on my goals and healing my pain.

Although, in Judaism, it's believed that sins against other people can only be forgiven by those other people, there's the side of those sins that was against Gd, so the assumption made by rabbis is that if the effort to repent of your own ways is made and the injured party is no longer thinking actively about the injury, by default it's been "forgiven."

Which is why they sickeningly advocate for rugsweeping.

This tendency to forgive at all costs and rugsweep is not just endemic to Judaism.

This false doctrine is also rampant in the Protestant and Evangelical churches also. I had to leave my church when I refused to immediately forgive my fWW. I will forgive her when I'm good and ready, and when she has earned my forgiveness. Her OM I will never forgive, although I already exacted my revenge against him.

I definitely hear that, LivingWithPain... I'm not bashing religion nor beliefs. My purpose for having gone into all that was to explain why I'm not even considering speaking to a Rabbi.

SD,

We know you are not bashing religion and neither are we, many of those organization do a great deal of good for humanity, and in truth the secular world often has nothing comparable.

In my case the religion thing sets me off, because when I first came out of denial about my W she was taking an 85 year old or so man to church with her.

At that time I demanded that she stop and the church ladies didn't understand what the problem was. The old man was infatuated with my W.

In some cases however it's all that people can afford.

I definitely hear that, LivingWithPain... I'm not bashing religion nor beliefs. My purpose for having gone into all that was to explain why I'm not even considering speaking to a Rabbi.

I hear that.

ok man what is your gameplan from here on out ?

My gameplan is as follows:

I won't be digging anymore (for now), but again, I'm aware that my gut is telling me there's more, so I won't be as shocked when it surfaces... but that'llbe something she will need to work on remembering and telling me.

I am focusing on work and getting so enveloped into it that nothing else exists at the time of work.

I have IC scheduled for this coming week.

I have finally confided in a close friend. I told him everything. We're going to try to make time every weekend, and he advised I can call to vent about anything at any time.

I'm going to start using social media again, as my confidence shot up significantly during those times - and I believe that I FINALLY have wisdom to add once more.

When the kids are awake and I'm around, they will be my focus.

I don't plan to be cold to WW, but efforts will need to come from her in terms of physicality & romance. I need her to show me how important I now am to her.

I will not spend the time while driving moping. I will spend it listening to my favorite music, blasting it with windows open singing along. Who knows, maybe a passing music exec will run over to my car and throw a contract in my lap 😂

When you're with your children, you can dance and swing around and play hide and seek, etc. It's good exercise for the body and the soul.

When you're driving, you could listen to podcasts. There are scads and scads of them. Learn something new, listen to stories of people who have overcome adversity, listen to health related suggestions for easing the anxiety by breathing properly, listen to nutrition ideas, listen to murder mysteries, the list is long, long, long. They saved me cuz my mind used to just recycle all my hurt over and over and over again when I was driving but once I found a distraction, it made all the difference in the world.

Some names of people whose podcasts are good: Lisa Romano, Eckert Tolle, Brene Brown, Melodee Beattie, Ross Rosenberg. And lots more.

That's what we mean by taking care of yourself. Eat healthy, get exercise, stay hydrated, improve your mind.

And, just for the record: I was once told that alcohol is the most effective depressant known to mankind. It might feel good for the moment but the molecules have a half-life and in their process, it zaps the user of all energy, mentally and physically. Not sure if it's all true but this world would be a happier place if alcohol didn't exist so just don't drink any for the next few months, just to be on the safe side.

I don't plan to be cold to WW, but efforts will need to come from her in terms of physicality & romance. I need her to show me how important I now am to her

.

Curious as to your reasoning on this. Are you doing 180?.. or in-house separation?