SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Welcome newcomers, you will find great support here.

I am really struggling right now so not in a place to give much advice...

Is anyone here dealing with alcoholism, drug addictions along with SA? I could really use some advice and perhaps a PM to vent about what I am going through right now. It’s too much all at once and I don’t know how to handle it. I am trying to stick to my boundaries but my WH is playing the victim (which he is from childhood) and begging me to stay on conditions he goes to rehab (be for alcohol, drugs, PTSD) not sure it would address SA much...this life is heartbreakingly hard!!!

NoLongerAlive your username breaks my heart. You are not alone many of us and certainly myself included are right where you are. Yes, porn, excessive masturbation etc led my WH to do exactly what he did. He does not admit SA but through my IC I find solace here as what I fear is exactly what all the other spouses here fear. He can call it what he wants.

I want you to repeat this over and over...this has nothing to do with you! This is him! Nothing you did or didn't do caused him to do these things. Are you in IC? Please do that for yourself. I hate that this causes us to doubt ourselves.

Somber: sorry you are hurting. Sounds like there are co-issues (not unusual) for you WH. What course of action does his IC suggest? I think you get to set the conditions. You stay? Stay married...as in don't divorce or stay with him physically? These are your terms. What are you comfortable with? I'm not a counselor but I have heard when co-conditions exist they have to get sober before dealing with the deeper issues, maybe someone here disagrees or has more insight.

Is anyone else going through IHS on the way to D? I just really could use some support. I'm absolutely spiraling and in a shitty place. You know how you feel when you don't believe it will get better? Yeah. That.

@demolished I'm exactly ten years out from finally ending a horrible period of IHS so I totally get the mindfuck you're dealing with.

The worst of it was struggling with the notion that I was guilty of abandoning a very sick person (who I happened to love deeply) to the depths of his addiction.

All the while my keylogger was showing me the real story of what he was up to. It was prodigious and, in hindsight, kind of ridiculous.

Worst year of my life, hands down, although the five years after that sucked donkey balls as well, it took *forever* to detach because, you know, he still loved me and was a class A clinger, but I'm ok now and happily semi-retired and blissfully ok with my single life.

You will get through it but it's a bitch. Big hugs, hang in there.

Is anyone here dealing with alcoholism, drug addictions along with SA? I could really use some advice and perhaps a PM to vent about what I am going through right now. It’s too much all at once and I don’t know how to handle it. I am trying to stick to my boundaries but my WH is playing the victim (which he is from childhood) and begging me to stay on conditions he goes to rehab (be for alcohol, drugs, PTSD) not sure it would address SA much...this life is heartbreakingly hard!!!

Yes, I did. It was too much and I left. I have no idea how to handle it and stay. It really is too much and it is too painful. Mine went to rehab for drugs and came back and wound up back on drugs and that was absolutely it for me. I already had most of my body out the door even when he was working a true recovery, but relapse was it. All that pain and betrayal had destroyed the love I'd had for him and it was almost a relief to have to move forward with leaving.

What you're dealing with is so much pain all at once and if you're still brushing your teeth, you're kicking ass.

Has anyone found COSA meetings helpful? I see they offer online and phone meetings, or there is an in-person weekly meeting about 45 min from me.

I’m struggling with isolated and lonely feelings, I have nobody I can talk to about my WH’s compulsive sexual behavior. WH rejects the notion of him being a SA, and because of that dead-end it hasn’t been fully addressed in our MC. Basically I’m only able to talk about it once a week in my own IC (where I really don’t want to focus on that all the time...) and my IC suggested a support group.

Sorry if this has been addressed before, I’m not easily finding threads about people’s good or bad experiences with it.

ETA: I saw people’s experiences with SANON but I was focused on COSA because of the proximity, I was really leaning towards an in-person support group. Nearest SANON is too far for me.

[This message edited by Perchy at 1:19 PM, April 26th (Friday)]

Perchy: I attended 1 COSA meeting; was 45 minutes away and I was the only attendee. It was helpful to talk to the group leader as the only other person there that particular night. I would have continued but shortly after that moved 2/12 hours away. In my current location closest is 2 hours so I don't go. But I would strongly urge you to try it as a place to share you story and not feel so isolated.

My SAH also denied and rebelled at the SA handle. MC had him take online test. I was ready to leave him and he knew it. He answered honestly and accepted the (positive) results and followed through with the SA treatment.

Sami, I PM’d you again, thank you for your continued support.

Devastated, I am brushing my teeth so I will take that as a win. I am working, taking care of the house and our kids. All the while trying to navigate how to do what is best for me, my kids and my spouse. That is proving to be impossible. I am really struggling. My WH is awaiting acceptance into rehab for drugs and alcohol. All the damage done over 10 years, especially the past couple years, seems to be permanent. I don’t think I can forgive him regardless of the underlying problems that he uses as a reason (excuse) for his behaviour. I have been the casualty in his war against himself and now he expects me to be his biggest supporter and agree to stay married if he gets help. I don’t know if I can do that. He is putting his mental stability and sobriety purely on conditions that I stay married to him. Otherwise, he claims fleeting suicidal thoughts or threatens to go away forever so as to not live divorced and coparent. He has done this so much in the past and as soon as I stop enforcing change or my feelings he is completely fine. I don’t know what is real or emotional manipulation.

If our natural instinct is to avoid danger then it feels so unnatural to force a marriage with the very person who caused me so much pain. How does one ever feel safe after what we have been through??

Perchy I am not familiar with COSA but have found great help with my SANON group; I see you are too far away for SANON but they also have Skype and telephone meetings and a good group can be of enormous help. Even after many years, some SANON members still feel it's only other SANON members with whom they feel fully themselves, completely honest and at ease. So I would try to find such a group. You might also try to organize one that is closer to where you live. SANON can help you create one.

Rugbychick,

What could you have done to justify breaking marriage vows? Has you H blamed you or are you imposing blame on yourself in order to make some sense of something that is so senseless?

Feel free to share so that others can help you.

Living life feeling guilty for someone else's actions is hard on a person.

Let us know how you're doing.

I recently joined a therapy group which is CSAT led. The two sessions I've been to have been very helpful; not so much for what I have learned because there is still so much of that to do still, but for the company of others living through the same pain and recovery.

Further to these sessions, I was encouraged to attend my first SANON meeting. This was very different from my group therapy with all its formalities and structure. I found comfort in the number of people who attended from all walks of life. I shook my head in disbelief that I was at one of these meetings. I mean, who on earth ever thinks they will be in a room with strangers one day talking about how the person they chose to love for the rest of their lives hurt them with sexually addictive behaviour?

I feel like this is happening to someone else but nope, it's me, muddling through as best I can.

Still trying to understand what I'm doing at a SANON meeting besides the obvious betrayal and hurt by a person acting our sexually. The steps confuse me...after all, what did I do wrong? Apparently it will all come together and I'll have an aha moment.

In the meantime, I am grateful for the people who reach out to others and try to ease their pain.

I have already met so many of you on SI and now IRL and I don't know what I would do without you.

Thank you.

Devastated, I am brushing my teeth so I will take that as a win. I am working, taking care of the house and our kids. All the while trying to navigate how to do what is best for me, my kids and my spouse. That is proving to be impossible. I am really struggling. My WH is awaiting acceptance into rehab for drugs and alcohol. All the damage done over 10 years, especially the past couple years, seems to be permanent. I don’t think I can forgive him regardless of the underlying problems that he uses as a reason (excuse) for his behaviour. I have been the casualty in his war against himself and now he expects me to be his biggest supporter and agree to stay married if he gets help. I don’t know if I can do that. He is putting his mental stability and sobriety purely on conditions that I stay married to him. Otherwise, he claims fleeting suicidal thoughts or threatens to go away forever so as to not live divorced and coparent. He has done this so much in the past and as soon as I stop enforcing change or my feelings he is completely fine. I don’t know what is real or emotional manipulation.

If our natural instinct is to avoid danger then it feels so unnatural to force a marriage with the very person who caused me so much pain. How does one ever feel safe after what we have been through??

Somber, once I left I got the suicide threats too. I think I actually interrupted one real attempt, but that just made him more likely to make them afterwards. I could not comprehend how I was SO important to him that he couldn't live without me, but he could treat me like garbage. It's not going to make sense.

As for being collateral damage...that still seriously pisses me off. I am WAY more than just someone's collateral damage. To hell with that. I was not a mere satellite in his orbit. I was a human being. He may have reduced me to collateral damage in his mind, but I refuse to live that role. It's dehumanizing. It is incredibly frustrating to be with an addict for a million different reasons, but you outlined one of the worst. It's ALL about them. Their recovery means that they need your support, so they expect you to get up off the floor and wipe off the shit that they've covered you with and be their cheerleader. No. YOU matter. To me, you matter a lot more than he does. The empathetic woman who loved and tried to be there for a suffering person is more valuable to me than an addict who hurts you over and over again. The one who is trying to take care of the children despite horrific psychological abuse is the one who matters. You are more than just his collateral damage. Yes, it would be great if your WH and my ex WH could get emotionally and mentally healthy and be givers instead of takers and have good lives, but neither of us is obligated to be with them. My WH has been through rehab and is in sober living across the country and I can tell that he still thinks that if he gets healthy enough, he can call a "my bad" and be welcomed back into my life with open arms. I have never told him that this is going to happen. When I left, I LEFT. I bought a house and moved to another town. We aren't merely separated, we are broken up. Divorce takes a year here.

Of course I care about him. I loved him immensely. I love myself more. I couldn't risk ever going through this again.

When you've reached the point where so much damage has been done, staying may be an act of abuse against yourself.

The steps confuse me...after all, what did I do wrong? Apparently it will all come together and I'll have an aha moment.

Shocked, the steps and the meetings are about getting you to a healthy place where you won't tolerate abusive behavior. No one walks into Al-anon, Nar-anon, CODA or SANON as a healthy person. You learn to set boundaries. You learn to value and love yourself. You sit with people who have been through similar things and the aha moment is when you hear what they've been through and say "That's horrible!! You don't deserve that treatment!" and then you reflect on the treatment that you've been the recipient of and understand that you owe yourself that same compassion.

Shocked the SANON format was modeled on the Al-ANON format which goes back many generations. But there's no hard and fast rule about using the steps; some do; some do not. SANON meetings vary greatly in style and format. The one I attend is very structured but there is no emphasis on step work and no is pressured, encouraged or advised to do the step work though we do encourage people to keep coming to meetings.

The people in my group which includes a man feel comfortable, accepted, supported. I go to one that has been active for about 30 years and to which people come from even two hours away and most do not do the steps in any formal fashion. If any of us don't place value on the step work, we just find other things of value in the meetings. And we all respect each other for whatever each of us can contribute--sympathy, understanding, resources, suggestions, good humor.

Great that you have found such good IRL support groups, Shocked. And Im sure everyone is benefitting greatly from your presence at the meetings. You always offer such kindness and wisdom to all of us here on SI--you must be even more of a help in your groups. Would be cool if you could visit mine!

The steps confuse me...after all, what did I do wrong

Right. Al-anon with its history of assigning blame to everyone in the family. My father was an "enabler" because he stuck by my mom and did his best to parent us.

Personally, I never worked all the steps. I did examine my behavior through a 12 step lens. That was very important. 12 steppers aren't supposed to give "advice" but offer a POV from a similar experience.

Not that some of the issues aren't real. Many spouses of alcoholics enabled the drinking. Some to avoid conflict, some for more practical reasons. I have seen people resent the newly sober, mostly those who have some discomfort with their own drinking and feel that sober people are judging them. They often label 12 steppers with the "cult" description. The thing is, addict families ARE dysfunctional. A spouse may resent that their own recreational drinking or night out at the local tavern is curtailed by the restrictions of early sobriety. With SA, it's different, most of the cases I've seen, the wife and children are unaware of the sexual acting out. It's easier for a SA than a drug addict to hide the addiction. But the behavior that goes along with addiction causes strife in other ways. IMO we LEARN to be codependent and enable things we shouldn't.I

But it also means we tend to be more critical of ourselves. We blame ourselves for not being sexy enough, not being thin enough, busty enough, blah, blah blah. While it behooves us to examine our behavior in the framework of the 12 steps, freely dismiss any part that does not apply to you.

CLEARLY, it's essential that we learn to detach, learn to set personal boundaries instead of ultimatums, learn that under no circumstances can we control the behavior of anyone else, it doesn't mean that we need fixing in the same way an addict does. We need to heal from the trauma they imposed on us.

Sanon can be a valuable place. The sisterhood of familiar experiences is particularly wonderful to us due to the perception of SA in society. But it is somewhat out of date, changes to the program take a long time, much like changes in a Quaker organization. It took our meeting 30 years to decide to replace the 150+ year old seat cushions...

Of course I care about him. I loved him immensely. I love myself more...

Bingo. And yes, staying may be the wrong thing for any one of us.

Hey all, sorry I disappeared for awhile. Life has been so busy I haven't had time to keep up with the conversation here. I will just give a bit of an update I guess.

Back story for the newcombers.. I caught my H about an affair 8 months ago end Aug '18. We tried to work through it for 4 months. Lots more came up including serious STDs and ultimately that there were many prostitutes (sex with at least 10 at brothels that he'll admit to, bjs from strippers and hjs at massage parlours at least say 30 times if not more) and he may have gotten a 2nd ap pregnant - he cut contact with her when I caught him and hasn't been able to find her to find out if she is having it and if it is his. And this all started when I was pregnant with our first child and throughout a second planned pregnancy. The baby was 1 month old when I caught him. So pretty much worst case scenario I think.

After catching him about the strippers & prostitutes is when I kicked him out mid Dec '18.

Our kids are 3 yrs old and 9 months old.

We are from different countries so we were living in the country he's from for the past 7 years (we started dating 8 years ago). I have just moved back to the US (moved in with my parents) with my kids.

So completely starting over. He is still abroad. Can't be sure if or when he will be able to come over this side. As much as it would probably be better for me for him to stay there, I don't think it's what's best for the kids. He is a shit husband but a pretty good dad. My 3 year old misses him terribly which is heartbreaking. It mostly makes male angry with him for destroying mine and the kids lives.

We've been here 2.5 weeks now. My 3 yr old starts school tomorrow (thanks to my parents help) and then I will start looking for a job. I leased a new car (with a big down payment to keep my monthly costs low) and am pretty much unpacked and busy helping clean my parents house.

I've been too busy to process my emotions too much but as unknown as my future is right now, which is scary, I will say that leaving, while a heartbreaking decision to have to make, has been easier than when I was trying to stay and work through things.

I refuse to spend the rest of my life miserable and suspicious of the person I am supposed to trust most but will now NEVER trust again.

I think we hold on because we are holding on to the life we expected/had dreams for and the hard work we put into those marriages in the past and the love we felt for these partners before finding out how badly they betrayed us. But that past life and those future dreams have been deeply damaged and for many, lost. Life will never look the same or have the same outlook with them. There is immense loss in that to mourn and it's hard to let go. But no matter how old you are, you aren't dead. You have life left to live. And you deserve for that life to be HAPPY. Not settling for shit you don't deserve and never deserved. Probably the biggest deal breaker for all for me was finding out he was still lying and gaslighting for the entire 4 months we were painfully heart wrenchingly trying to work through things. It showed me more than ever that he is a masterful liar and cannot be trusted. From what I've read in this thread in the past, I suspect many of you are dealing with the same.

I'm so sorry we are all going through this. We all deserve so much better.

The stand I've taken for myself is that I choose me. I choose loving and valuing and respecting myself. And in order to do that, I can't choose being with him. After everything he's done, and all the emotional abuse that is the lying and gaslighting and betrayals, I can live a happier life without him than I now could with him.

The decision to leave is hard but I will say that the second I made it I was stronger. A weight was lifted off me and I had hope for the future, even not knowing exactly what that will look like.

I will unfortunately be stuck with him in my life forever because of the kids, but he already destroyed my past, I won't let him ruin my future too.

Oh ShatteredSorrow, you go girl. I get it, I truly do, down to my bones. It's going to be hard, but it is so very worth it. You are in charge of your life now and that is priceless. You saved yourself from an absolute nightmare. Grieving is normal and unavoidable, but you WILL be okay and you will be happy again. You are worth more than that and good for you for knowing it.

Have any of you heard of Maddie Korman and her experience with her husband? I just heard her on a podcast, talking about her husband, and it was rather good to feel less alone and to hear someone talk about SA and pornography publicly. Maybe give her and her play a search.

demolished so glad to hear that you found Maddie Corman's talk helpful; I think she would be very glad to know that; trying to help others was the motivation for her doing the play. She also organized a new SANON group.

When the play was reviewed and after she talked about her experience on The View there were a lot of very negative comments about her and her choosing to stay. I had the impression the posts were from people who had never experienced anything like what Maddie did--perhaps had never experienced any type of betrayal or relationship trauma.

I think her talk on The View might be on YouTube. Didn't realize there was also a podcast talk. Are we allowed to post information on that?

I can’t post a link but I can tell you she was on the Robcast. It’s one of my favorites...perhaps because he’s quirky and offers not only interpretation of the Bible that can be applied to our lives but because I really enjoy his guests.

I am sad she took hits, but that doesn’t surprise me. It’s ehy my writing has all been anonymous. Hers is particularly difficult in that it involved kids. You are right. I had no true understanding of this (SA) or even infidelity until dday. People simply do not understand. I will reach out and send her a note. It touched me that she could share such trauma every day for weeks and still keep going.

We are all amazing.

Thank you for sharing the Robcast info. The fact that it was child porn rather than some other form of betray probably generated many more negative comments then might have other types of stories but I remember two of my friends immediately asking if I was going to divorce my H--and child porn was not involved. I remember explaining it wasn't easy to just walk out on 35 years of marriage; I said that calmly but found it incredible that they could judge so quickly and with such confidence. One is still a friend; the other chose to have nothing more to do with me.

Along with the extreme pain we experience upon discovery and the difficulties we go through after, being judged, misunderstood and disrespected by people who we thought were good friends, seriously adds to the wounds our spouses's behavior created.