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SANON group update. I have called now three times and have not yet heard back. I have called once a week for the past 3 weeks, last call being made just this morning mind you.

Perhaps one of you can find out if there are even meetings in my area?

This pink cloud thing is scary. Is this really a thing? Since Dday almost four years ago my WH husband has said he has no need to do these things anymore and he's glad I "caught him." That whole line never sounded right to me. Hoping this isn't the cloud thing, but I know it sure could be. I don't think he's done the real work. He's never admitted to SA, only thing he admitted to is that his IC told him to be very careful, but I also don't think he revealed everything to his IC> My IC definitely sees the addiction part...that's why I'm here.

Other than that we had a good weekend. My HPV biopsy is a week away. Just another thing that throws it all back up in the air. I'm going to use the week to be good to myself.

Somber, if you PM me your location, I'll try. Have you looked at this link?

http://www.sanon.org/find-a-meeting/s-anon-meeting-locations-canada/

Canada is awfully big!

I know some of the provinces listed have only a phone number which you have tried. I have a few more tricks I can try.

[This message edited by Lionne at 9:06 AM, April 8th (Monday)]

I asked my husband to read the article I found, btw, I can't find anything that links Weiss to this phrase, just general info. And I saw nothing that links sex addicts, just blanket statements about addiction.

I KNOW I was this in him, he said many of the same things, I saved his life, he's so grateful to me, blah, blah, blah. It's it that I don't think he's being truthful, it's that he just didn't see it as BS, thinks he means it. On some level he does. It's just not enough to think that, he has to do the work for real.

It's apparently not a term that just applies to addiction. A quote from a 2017 tv show, referring to a suicide victim, "I saw her yesterday, she seemed happy, I didn't know she was pink clouding."

I think I pink cloud a lot...I'd me sad and depressed all the time if I didn't.

My WH (hopefully FWH) and I are working through R and have been on that path since August of 2018, about 8 months.

Overall things have been going well, particularly since January, and I'm pleasantly surprised that he's still in IC. I recently found out that largely what they've been focusing on is a porn addiction/sex addiction.

Now, I must admit, before this experience, I never personally had a problem with (ethically made) porn, and have enjoyed it myself on occasion, so I never thought anything of WH using it. Through IC, he's disclosed to me that in addition to the ongoing online infidelity, he was often using porn between 15-25 times a week (considerably more often than he and I were intimate, and I have a fairly high sex drive so it's not like he wasn't getting sex, though I know that's not an excuse). Honestly it shocked me that he was using it so much.

So flash forward to now, and he's made a commitment to cutting out porn entirely, and has had some relapses. We're both reading something his IC recommended, which is 'The Porn Trap' and that's been really eye-opening.

Has anyone else been through something similar in their recovery journey, where they weren't opposed to porn before but it turns out it truly was a huge problem for their WS? How have you dealt with it? He says that he can see how bad it is for him, and our relationship, in that it puts him in a mindset of unhealthily 'pornifying' basically any women he sees on the street or meets or whatever, and also that it leads him to feel unfounded resentment towards me that happens almost immediately after he uses porn, almost like he's displacing unhappiness he feels with himself for failing to stay 'sober' and choosing something unhealthy over more productive fulfilling pursuits. It's just really not a place I ever thought I'd be in. I'm curious if others have had the same experience. :(

Joy-

I was fine with porn, actually. H and I would watch it together sometimes.

I totally respect other women who are opposed to porn because of the sex trafficking, etc. I guess I never looked through porn in that lens, because I guess I never bothered or was interested to look into the underlying issues behind something that I considered to be more along the lines of spice/kink/dessert.

I still don't demonize porn. I don't think it's that great. But, I still think each to their own. I'll stay in my own lane about it.

I don't think of it any differently than if my husband were an alcoholic. I wouldn't start lobbying for another temperance movement. I never understood why folks had to drink to relax and have a good time. One of my closest friends was like that. I stayed in my own lane. That was hers to manage, not mine.

None of us ever thought we'd end up with a sex addict.

Have you read any of the other resources listed on the first page of this? There's lots of good info there.

How are you doing with your recovery work? Are you thinking about your boundaries, etc? Have you considered looking into 12-step meetings for yourself?

Is your husband seeing a CSAT? Considering a 12-step group?

My husband didn't do a 12-step group, the first time....just worked with a CSAT. My husband's MO is porn and compulsive masturbation. No physical cheating, yet.

So. He managed to stay sober for about 3 years. Then he started slipping and then marching towards a full blow relapse. Wasn't quite there yet, but just a matter of time.

I'm also from the same state. You can PM me if you'd like...to see if we are in the same location. I might be able to help out with resources..

I am substantially older. I never objected to porn in the form of written magazines, etc. I have two cousins who were strippers, both were abused. The internet has changed the world, not always for the better, I personally don't believe any porn can be ethically produced, my opinion only.

Masturbation, a normal process, takes on a whole other face when practiced by addicts. It generally REPLACES a normal sex life, or diminishes the ability of people to experience normal sexual reactions. My husband became unable to climax, I was far less intense than his masturbatory sessions apparently. He really couldn't connect emotionally.

The whole issue of porn use and it's effects on the brain is quite scary, especially since I know young kids are getting into it despite the best efforts of parents. I believe it creates addiction where there might not have been a problem before.

I'm glad your husband is working towards sobriety. Yes, slips happen, relapses too. It happened to me. But I do make a distinction between porn and interactions with RL women.

Addiction escalates. My H was strictly a porn user. Until he escalated.

It's extremely hurtful to find out, years later, that porn was only the beginning of the trauma for me.

Lionne Don't know who wrote the pink cloud paragraph but it's an "inspiration" item at what seems to be his newish website, Sex and Relationship Healing.

But guess that even without hearing/reading about PC, those of us whose H's acted out as they did and especially if they did it for many years and even more especially if they did it frequently, no matter how they claimed they no longer wanted/needed/ thought about or whatever, on some level we'd always be wary of their doing it again. Some of my SANON friends are old-timers-10 years or more--and 10 or more years of their H's "sobriety" --but hey, they are still going to regular meetings; the men are still working the program--after discovery life is just never the same again. If it ever really was.

I agree with second time about staying in our own lane. The porn issue is highly divided, just look at some threads on SI regarding porn. It does seem to mainly be divided along male/female lines, but not always, but threads regarding porn are triggery and tend to get very heated.

I never had a problem with porn before Dday, per se. I found my WH looking at porn about 7 years before Dday and asked him about it. I was a little shocked, because he had never told me that he was interested in porn but other than that, I was really not threatened by it at all. I did not ever think "well I'm not enough for him" or anything like that. I just thought "well, what do you know, he's into porn?" and it wasn't a big deal to me. I guess it should have been.

Fast forward to Dday and I can now draw a clear line form his porn watching to escalating behaviors that began to act out his fantasies IRL. I now see porn as a major precursor to all of his acting out. I also like Secondtime, see the analogy to alcohol. I think there are some people that can keep it in limits, and others allow it to take over their life and their relationships. It is really for each person to make up their mind about AND for each couple to decide where or IF porn should exist anywhere in their relationship. Since Dday I am much more anti-porn...since I see the destruction of lives firsthand...I think, what good is it? And if there is no good that comes from it...shouldn't we excise it from our lives? I don't know. I did come across a great website called Fight The New Drug. Early on I printed out a lot of the information and I keep it in my house for my WH to see. I think right now it's in my nightstand. I know he's seen it, I hope that he gets it. My WH does not go to SA meetings, he is not convinced he is SA so I deploy information in any form I can.

I never had a problem with porn until I found out my SAWH was watching / participating in it online...and that was a shocking revelation to me to come to terms with in the beginning.

So , yeah, my views have changed and I am bitter about how much it has hurt me, hurt our marriage and hurt our one daughter that is aware of her dad's A.

Just like alcohol use , I realize that not everyone who uses it , abuses it.

But it led to some pretty friggin terrible consequences for me / us.

And even though he hasn't been on a porn site in 18 months, he still is acting out with one of the women he " met " on the porn site and doesn't seem to think it's as serious as it is...

Thanks demolished,

To answer yes , many. Answers vary but I realize it’s a business I’m also told to a degree what I want to hear.

In my state it will be division, though we mutually signed a contract on all matters ,in front of someone, a year ago now he reactants reasoning but he gave freely all away , kept items where he is to do this....my blind eye. He rewrites all.....what did I expect? I feel foolish.

I’m realizing he’s active, he states not ,but by behaviors and reactions its now almost textbook.

He’s in the i blame him phase-still like a child, I agree no reconciliation truly unless he sees. I don’t truly think he wants I don’t believe anything sadly. Finally realizing you can’t at all, I mean anything hurts.

He’s trying to skirt around using being in a long distance now(another choice I didn’t agree with) to say this is only way, we can’t together blah blah blah.

There’s part of me now wants to make the rash decision as I sit hurting, scared, evil off eyes as I do finally want the truth, and change or did. Now it’s, could I be in this literally , is the denial there at first as other addictions, should I give time and risk his dirty divorce tactics? I married him twice I know how low he will go, and lying now he’s convinced himself on.

i know he will do. It, this will be a war. Sadly ,he doesn’t realize there won’t be a winner, at all.

Anything to keep his fake image and double life, he’s enjoyed it to long and to much now. I’m scared to stay , scared to move forward.I'm back isolating to an extreme, health on a downward, and I tell no one now.its very humiliating.

I'd like to ask you all this question... especially those who are okay with porn in general. I'm not being snarky, I truly would like to understand the other side. Currently, most porn is internet based, whether streaming or images. They is a clear conduit to porn and sex trafficking, slavery, manipulated drug addiction that hooks young people into sex trades, the objectification of women and men in some cases. Knowing that the people in online porn are frequently victims in one way or another, how can we justify supporting it? If I had daughters I'd be frightened and furious.

I don't object to porn "in general" but I reject the realities of its existence.

Please give me your perspective.

Lionne that's a really good question. I think it is like a lot of things in life that we never really look at very closely. I KNOW what I am about to speak to does not compare, but in a very simple way, perhaps it does. I have a beautiful lawn in a lovely neighborhood. That lawn gets fertilized and watered regularly, once I stop and think about how wasteful that is, and how our local ponds and waterways are polluted with fertilizers, I wonder why I do it. I have finally realized its impact.

Also, I am mainly vegetarian, but, I do eat meat. I have children who are vegans and have made me aware of some of the ways that animals are farmed and raised for us to eat and I am ethically opposed to a lot of it. I have finally realized its impact and I struggle with these types of things. I happily consume them because they are convenient and bring me joy or happiness on some level, but when I realize that something or someone suffers for it, I question my own involvement. I think many times we just don't think that hard about what we do, or maybe we just don't care that much BUT when faced with the realities we can either choose to ignore or decide what is wrong/right for each of us.

In the case of porn we are first hand sufferers of its devastation...many of us at least...so we fully feel the impacts now and our eyes have been open to the impacts it has in other arenas.... human trafficking, the devastation or relationships and families, etc. Whereas before we may have just conveniently never had to think about it, now the impacts are forced upon us so we wrestle with these things up front. (sigh)

Empathy seems to be key.

Thanks. Your analogy is apt. I would love to be vegan, or even vegetarian. Health problems make that very difficult at this time.

I've changed my position on a great many things in my life once I got educated on a stand.

Lionne, I agree with you. I was never a prude when it came to porn and have watched plenty before. The days of magazines are over though! After Dday, I searched at what he has been looking at every night. I almost threw up! He was masturbating to some very disgusting crap! Unfortunately, the porn world has to keep coming up with more and more over the top scenes to keep men watching. I can't even imagine how many women are victims in all of it. Supply and Demand!

He was searching step-daughters and incest. He has a step-daughter (my daughter) and grandchildren. I don't even want to know what is going on in his brain or what actually turns him on.

In a way, I'm glad to be my age because I feel very sorry for the young men who are watching this shit on a daily basis and what it is actually doing to them. Especially when it comes to their future with females.

I miss the good ol' days when talking and making out was the best! I would not trade those days for the world.

Porn opinion...

Sami, I like your explanation that we don’t always look that hard into the things that we do. When you are faced with the cruelty of it (animal cruelty for our food or women cruelty for our pleasure) it really does change our perspective.

Personally, I never watched porn until I was with my WH. I long for the days when the intimacy between a partner and me was enough to create a fulfilling night. At the beginning I was open to porn and perhaps enjoyed it at times. Then slowly I became offended by it and the amount he utilized it. In the early days I asked him to stop watching it. I didn’t see it as SA at the time but did see it as a porn addiction. I did not connect the two. He never stopped just got better at hiding it. The porn fantasies became a regular for him to verbally story tell and try to play out when we had sex. I got so bored and hurt by his need to always fantasize that sex for me became more of a chore. It was no longer pleasurable to always be thinking of another person in bed with us. I would want to yell shut up while we had sex but just got it over with instead.

So for me porn ruined our sex life. Along with the infidelities,etc. It was a red flag I didn’t recognize at the time.

A side note to porn, my friends 10 year old daughter came home asking what porn was. She is 10!!! As a boy in her class is telling her he would like to do things to her he watches in porn. He used very descriptive words ( pussy, my dick) when telling her this. These are children, they are in grade 5. With the internet and kids online all the time, I think we also need to be more watchful what our kids are exposed to online!!! This poor girl is devastated, hurt and confused. Porn has no place in public school but it is there normalizing this degrading behaviour towards women. This makes me fear for my daughters and even sons future. How to protect them!!

I am now anti porn and do wish it was only accessible in magazines like before. It is too accessible and to many of the wrong people and ages.

For most of my life I never thought about porn or looked at it. I remember my brother having Playboys and then Penthouse and Hustler. I was curious when I was young, but also sickened by some of the stuff. And I was very aware that women were valued for only their bodies and what men thought of their bodies in a sexual way. Ugh.

My husband as well said he wasn't interested in porn. What a lie. The internet itself is addicting and then add porn, and we know what happens. I watched some internet porn, but the soulessness, the objectification, the disrespect for women...that came through. And yet again these artificial women with their huge implants, prostitute-like make up...or making them look young. That made me sad and sick.

Porn destroyed my husband. It destroyed my sex life. I've read researchers who say they don't see anything positive from internet porn, only negative affects. And having children be exposed to this and having this teach our children about sex. It's not good.

I'm anti-porn now.

ashestophoenix

Hi everyone,

Been off SI for a few week due to my father in law's passing and now a nasty cold.

Wish I could respond to all posts because everyone has such interesting experiences and opinions but I'd be here all day.

I had never heard of the pink cloud and will bring it up in IC.

Tomorrow I start with a group of women who share similar experiences when it comes to sexual betrayal and related trauma. The group is run by a trauma therapist and a CSAT.

8 weeks for 2 hour sessions. It's a big step for me; sharing with strangers (friends) on SI is different from sharing with people IRL and I fear I may know someone in the group. Makes me feel vulnerable but I know I will benefit from their stories as I have from yours.

Marji, you are right about my H and his determination to keep this marriage afloat. We do still love each other, true. However, he is still in denial about his compulsive habit and still minimizes the impact it had on our marriage. He is still defensive and gets angry when I bring up the subject. My H is very insulted that his CSAT has already categorized him as an addict. He wants to find another therapist now in order to break the tie between the first who brushed it off as boys will be boys, take your wife on a vacation and all will be forgotten and the other IC (CSAT) who called it the way she saw it; addictive behaviour, a man in denial, trainwreck at home with wife and family and strong family history of addiction.

I guess he will shop around until he finds someone who can explain his life to him. Easier that way than trying to figure it out on his own.

In the end, I'm digging in my heels and insisting that he continue to search his heart and soul and be honest as to why he felt he would risk his marriage and family life over massages.

I can easily live with this new version of my H but I won't rugsweep. I'm sure if he could pay me to never bring it up again he would. Sorry buddy, you made your bed now you lie in it.

The last two weeks of my life have been sort of a blur...between a couple of unpleasant discoveries of my SAWH doings from long ago , to as recent as last month ...an illness that impacted my asthma ( didn't help to be an emotional mess for my physical heath )

I had to have a dental procedure that I arranged to have a neighbor to take me to , but my H ended up taking me...that wasn't what I originally wanted , but I am glad he did because I was drugged and needed help getting upstairs and into bed.

Tomorrow, I am having a 2 hour session with a new IC that is part of a practice that all of them are CSAT...they have an excellent reputation , so I have been told.

I am hoping that this will be a step in the right direction for my own healing and more importantly SAWH's healing.

He is talking the talk, but I can't put a lot of weight on that since I have heard it all before.

As far as the porn is concerned ...I have tried to implore to my husband when it comes to the fact that we have 4 daughters from our blended family....one of them is in heavy debt with student loans and I used her as an example of is it okay for her to become a cam girl in order to chip away at those loans ? This is his biological D

I have asked him about how he would feel if , when no one was looking and he took a little gander , if he happened upon his daughter there ?

Our youngest will soon be graduating college and doesn't have a job lined up yet...what if she decided to earn a little chump change by putting her body out there for pervs to degrade and defile ?

I don't even know if this resonates with him , or he just tucks that away in another compartment of his brain.