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What need does doing what your wife did with AP with you satisfy? I don't think I wrote that question correctly so I'm hoping you understand what I mean.

This is where our genders really diverge, or maybe just you and I DragnHeart, because I find the fact that you even need to ask that question baffling. If there is one thing I have learned from this thread, it's the necessity to communicate even when I find something to be obvious, because others don't necessarily see it that way.

The answer for me, I deserve to know who I am married to. There is ZERO room for this kind of secrecy, in a marriage, and certainly in reconciliation.

"JayMom" - my eyes are tired from reading all 30 whatever pages I just read on this thread. One of your posts however, says it all in 5 simple words. "You can't untuck the donkey." It's as easy as that. What was done to the WS was done. Over, end of story. Nothing in the world will ever bring back what was.. NOTHING.

H fucked the neighborhood donkey - then pulled it out, then rammed it back in again many times over. Anybody who thinks a car is going to settle the score with me is just plain stupid.

Thanks ride. It’s important for us bs’s to reflect. I find we have a tendency to rewrite history in our favor too sometimes.

It’s important that we analyze our own thinking and sometimes when we are adamant that we are right, to the point of pushing our views on someone else, refusing to accept someone else’s view as legit, there is a reason that needs examining.

That’s my opinion anyway

IM glad I did get divorced, for me. So my ex doesn’t have to be humiliated by my needs, my requests, my desires. She can bjust happy being alone. Except she isn’t happy. She wanted to save the marriage and still wants me back.

Maybe some WS here are like her, understand the message people are trying to make, do this things voluntarily and willingly, out of love they mistakenly gave someone else, and because of threads like this, have a chance to save what they almost threw away. Maybe they aren’t of the opinion that what we are saying is condusive to humiliation, rape abuse etc, but rather just didn’t understand until it was vocalized to them..

Idk to each their own

[This message edited by nicenomore at 1:53 PM, February 21st (Wednesday)]

Thanks, deephurt. Well said.

Thanks steady.

Ephemera- I’m glad you didn’t want or need these things to R, but many people do... it is what it is. And how can you say

If I could not trust what my remorseful WH was telling me, I would say "I understand that you are trying to tell the truth. However, I am finding it difficult to trust you because of your actions. Will you take a poly and put my mind at ease?" I would not threaten consequences, since his choice has to be his own. If he refused, I would walk out

.

isn this literally the same thing as do it or I’m gone? That’s not a threat? It’s jist confusing.

Another thought on this (because I saw the same sentiment ["I wouldn't make a demand, I would just leave"] expressed a few times). For many (most?) of us a lack of communication, particularly intimate communication, was an issue in the marriage before the A. It is one of the things we need to address if R is to be successful. That approach is not IMO, an honest approach to the problem. Your WS is not aware of your needs because you aren't making him aware. I think many men often think their wife expects them to just intuit what she is thinking and that leads to unmet needs/desires. Despite the fact that the man is not doing it intentionally it leads to issues.

Lazarus, if you read my post properly, it does not say that you should not communicate what you want. It simply says that the request should not be conditional. I haven't suggested mind reading.

I would absolutely tell my WH what I need from him. It is then up to him to decide if he wants to give me what I need of his own free will. If he only gives it to me because otherwise he gets to lose what he wants (ie the marriage) then he is only trying to preserve what he wants, not help me heal.

Further, I just read a new thread in JFO where the OP got details seven years after the fact and he's wrecked. As I said, you guys set out to convince people, and I'm convinced. Sexual details add fuel to fire and apparently makes the victim role harder to escape.

ChamomileTea, I strongly disagree. The fire was already there. The BS just didn't know.

There is no justification for not giving the whole truth.

Ticked, that has been said for years. The WW can't

undo the sex with the OM. Nor a WH and the OW.

Though how does the WW provide just compensation

to her BH?

How does she do this? Apologize, go NC with the

OM, send a NC letter, answer every question the

BH has with no lies or trickle truth.

All of that will not undo the sex with the OM.

If the WW gave sex act/s to the OM that she

never gave her BH, and will not give her BH now,

how does that provide just compensation for her

BH?

How does the WW make her BH not feel emasculated?

How does the WW make her BH not feel emasculated?

She can't. Which I think sums up this entire thread. Many ways that should work, with men saying "that won't do it". There's only one way that will work for many of us, and that's to be put first sexually again (along with emotionally, financially and in the priority list, something we all agree on).

Before we get to fifty pages and there is no more

room to post I will say this.

A BH that wants to stay married will find a way to

eat his merda panini.

We stay. We find a way to accept. Most of us never

got what we needed to heal. Our wives know why we

are not happy, they never acknowledge that they

know why. Quietly they wait for us to get over it.

"old truck" - In my case (and only my case as I can't speak for others) there is NOTHING my h can do at this point (even 14 years post a) that will satisfy the sex both physical and psychological.

H has asked me several times over the years what he can do to change what he did during his a. My answer has always been the same. NOTHING. There is nothing he can give me now that will take away the hurt he caused when he made the decision to get his bi-weekly blow jobs.

You see, h gave up this marriage when he unzipped his pants. He gave the ow what was ours for 20 long years. He basically gave us away. So whether it was kinky or outrageous sex, personal information about us, his time spent away from us, so on and so forth, he gave US up. Everything became hers, no longer mine to have or even remember.

So you ask what the WS can do at this point. In my opinion, nothing. They already gambled by throwing the dice on the table ultimately losing all they had.

[This message edited by TICKED OFF at 6:49 PM, February 21st (Wednesday)]

I think in recovery the WW will not do sex acts

that she only did with her OM and not her BH is

that they want to forget the affair so they can

heal.

Talking about the affair keeps them from

forgetting. Get over it already.

So if it was anal they think that going back to

never doing anal they will forget the sex they had

during the affair.

Though how are they able to kiss their BH, have

oral with her BH, let her BH play with her

breasts, PIV sex with her BH?

Cause she did all of these things with her OM as

well. Why are these sex acts will not be making

the WW trigger and remember the OM?

BH's cannot demand sex and WW's cannot refuse

sex. They need to talk of the whys for each and

to find a middle ground.

It is easy to see this as a black and white

subject when it never will be.

Tickedoff, I understand you being mad at your WH.

You have your reasons to stay married.

Would it not be better if you could slowly let the

anger go? Punishing a WH is not recovery. I am

sure your WH deserved the punishment you gave him.

Though what is happening now is you are now

punishing yourself so you can continue to punish

your WH.

We stay. We find a way to accept. Most of us never

got what we needed to heal. Our wives know why we

are not happy, they never acknowledge that they

know why. Quietly they wait for us to get over it.

((((Oldtruck))))

That's bullsh$t. I feel your pain. So very sorry. None of this is fair.

"old truck" send you a pm

So, basically, I think it’s appropriate that I send this thread to bed.

Although, I admit, I had visions of “ultimate advice or agenda part two, hahahahaha “ (in my mind said by Vincent Price, just because I’m sick that way.)

Ok, my takeaways:

1. The civility was awesome.

2. Betrayed men have feelings that are very real to them.

3. So do betrayed women.

4. Reconciliation and all the requirements each betrayed needs and wants are different and sometimes the same.

5. Waywards threw away the marriage when they cheated. Reconciliation is a gift.

6. Reconciliation does not take one road or two, but many. If you are wayward, expect your betrayed to ask much of you, sexually, financially, socially, etc. if you can’t handle their pain, get out of the kitchen.

7. No one should ever be forced to do anything with their body they don’t want to. Walk away if you feel unduly pressured.

8. Sexual details matter to most betrayeds. Always answer honestly and do not trickle truth.

9. If reconciliation is offered, you can accept or deny your betrayeds demands.

10. Please don’t ever forget that if we could go back to that one day, one hour, one minute of the life we had before you betrayed us, we would.

So, that’s my in “a nutshell.” I really do thank everyone for posting such private experiences, pain and thoughts here. I, personally, have learned so much. I again apologize to anyone that this thread hurt or triggered.

I hope we helped each other understand each other. We are different, but sometimes we come together and understand that there is no guidebook for how to eat the shit sandwich. There are, however, here, many who will help you swallow, learn, and get better.

-Greeneyes

^^^^ Exactly.

Very well said.

A good discussion.

Peace and love to all.

[This message edited by wonderpets at 2:22 AM, February 22nd (Thursday)]

Greeneyes, thank you, I learned so much. I agree most with the women and it's hurtful to me what some of the men have said, but it's their honest feelings and I'm glad that they shared. As for my own situation, I would never ask my Wayward for anything that would cause him sadness or pain even if I feel hurt about what he did during the A. I would leave before that point.