SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Do they even understand the tiniest bit of what they've done to another human being, let alone the one they claimed to "love and cherish"?

No, they do not. Or mine likely understood it, it was all just laced with her narcissism and contempt for me.

Keep venting, it's certainly helped me. This place is my therapy. I vent when I need to, I feel better, my day goes on. The psychic scars these people leave take time to stop filling with puss. I'm very grateful for this particular subsection as it is nice to know I'm not alone. Until you find others abandoned like us, you can't help but feel like "whats wrong with me, am I really so bad".

Been meditating, really thinking through the concept of dodging a bullet. Lot of healing there!

I still think introspection is at the heart of being a decent human being.

Ive always had a softspot for fuck ups and losers and tragic heros etc. You know people who fuck up but look inward and own it, who parallel it with love for humanity and empathy. I have friends who have had chaotic lives but they would always go through periods of deep thought, worry, and desires to change, and change they would. They wouldnt dream of hurting others. No one is perfect or perfectly healthy. Spice is the variety of life. We are all terrible in our own ways.

But this kind of self reflection was absent in my wife. She just didnt have the tools. The phrase i read "you cant shame a narcissist" not long ago still gives me chills, and not ina good way. Her pathway back to me was remorse and introspection. All i got instead was a smirk and them plastered all over social media. If she wasnt so deeply fucked up id say she deserved the dustbin.

Thanks AG. It's difficult to wrap my mind around it and at the same time wonder what is so wrong with me that he decided to annihilate our life together, our marriage, and sadly me along the way. My therapist said that part of me has died, and that part of letting go of him and my former life is letting go of the person I used to be who is now dead. It makes sense though it doesn't make the pain go away.

Striver, It's so much worse that they don't get it. I swing back and forth between trying and failing to grasp a mind that's capable of doing such a thing, and feeling bad for him because he's clearly lacking something in the character department. I actually feel bad for the guy and worry about his happiness! At the same time I feel heartbroken, angry, confused, anxious, depressed. All these emotions romping around in my head and heart space make for shitty houseguests, leaving their cigarette butts and empty beer cans everywhere. I'm pretty sure one of them burned a hole in my sofa. Another one puked in the sink. They have emptied my fridge and cranked the heater too high. Jerks.

I keep reading that marriages based on affairs have a dismal rate of success due to at least "9 reasons" (I certainly hope there are more), but doesn't this also assume that the guilt, sacrifice, expectations, lack of trust, new shiny glittery unicorn magic wearing off, etc. is largely based on people who have a some capacity for guilt and/or basic decency? People who are not expert compartmentalizers that build brick walls around their secret, unsavory, fragmented personalities and lives? Maybe those few special cheater-based marriages that do survive are simply two wicked people who finally found their well-deserved love match and can somehow live happily ever after in hell's paradise? It's possible that what would be unbearable to regular decent people is more like a vacation in the Florida Keys to them. I just don't get it.

WH has certainly flaunted his AP to his friends, our friends, his family, and he did this very early on and apparently without any guilt or shame. They all seem to be accepting of the new shiny POS couple and everyone acts like nothing wrong. WH may have well murdered someone and buried the body in the garden, then grew flowers over the dead body and everyone stops to admire his lovely new garden. No remorse. No shame. Just dead body fertilizer and two really shitty people getting away with murder. And a bunch of oohs and aahhs from so-called family and friends. F'n toadies.

Years ago WH's best friend went through infidelity and abandonment. The poor guy's POS XW left for the other guy. Her reasons for her extreme selfishness were as lame as the next POS cheater. I remember before the shit hit the fan how mean and entitled she seemed. I had known her for a few years and never saw this in her before. The guy went through absolute hell. Apparently seeing what this did to his best friend didn't phase WH one bit when he turned around and did same to his life partner. He obviously couldn't care less about who he hurts. He is highly avoidant, and so is his family. Nice how WH the the rest of them choose to deal with normal problems in life.

I have a close friend whose husband did this to her. Now he is seemingly 'blissfully' married to the shitty AP who in turn cheated on her H and left him. They posted their smug smiling faces all over social media. I don't see where guilt or other basic human feelings factor in for these people. I can see how their marriages might fail due to boredom and wanting the next sparkly thing. Or when problems come up, what do the pathologically avoidant do? They run like hell! It's awfully confusing hating someone and caring about them at the same time. Wonder what that mystical state of "meh" is like?

So is narcissism just the cool thing that all the kids are doing these days? I don't fucking get it. Why do most people seem so okay with this?

At least we're in good company here. Infidelity + Discard: It's a particular kind of hell with its own special nuances, isn't it?

[This message edited by burninghouse at 4:10 PM, October 12th (Saturday)]

Burning house

Yes all of what you are questioning i go through. It kind of takes over in gaps, like now whilst lying in bed. Its like scratching an itch that never get scratched. I spend a good portion of my free time trying to figure my nutcase out. But its utterly futile in many ways. She had checked out. She had sorted all this in her own mind way before fat piece of shit turned up. Thats really why she showed no remorse, she killed thr marriage in her own head months ago, but thought lying and cheating was the way to deal with it. Lovable in many ways, sure, but profoundly shallow. So thats what i am losing. Thats the reality of it. This is no fog. This is who she is. Really no further questions required. But yeah damn its hard. I truly believe we will all find perspective and healing the more distance we have. Even tho i have to raise kids with this person, the future has a new brightness in many regards.

I hear you puffstuff. Owning your shit is the way to go for any decent human being. Self-reflection and general remorse are absent in WH too. I get it. It's great that meditation is helping, and framing this as dodging a bullet is not only a good way to look at, it's so true.

If they were to get married i would want it to survive. Genuienly. I am absoloutly scared of this freak and what ahe could do to my relationship with my kids (move them away for example). If shes married she has her claws into someone else and not me.

Burninghouse. You articulate my experience so well ♥️

Thanks for that post AG. You and Striver have helped me process this so much. This breakdown happened due to many reasons and accepting that we kept ourselves stuck and subsequently got worse in a subpar relationship is hard to accept but very necessary part of recovery. I'm certainly a much better person with her not around. More assertive, less willing to compromise my values. Positive things really. Do other BS think the same?

The part about losing faith in love. I think so as well but my sister says that this feeling is natural after your first major relationship fails. The reasons don't matter and it would've been there even if it was a mutual breakup. Considering this was my first real relationship, I can't really refute her claim. What about you guys? Did you have a major breakup before meeting your shithead ex? A person you expected to spend the rest of your life with? How are the feelings different this time around? Would love to know your thoughts on that.

No major break up before Shit Head.

And yes definitely feel more consistent with myself now that she is gone.

Still have some major anxieities that wont go away, but KNOW now i will be happier without her.

Questiom for the crew

Did your nutter trade up or down?

Thats the most baffling unanswereeld questions in my view - how they chuck so much away for so little.

I'd like to think that she traded down, but at this point, who knows. She never even told me her motivations because she was too much of a chickenshit to be straight with me. Getting the Blameshift Extravaganza means having to decode the message through a heap of noise. It leaves me blaming myself for only the things I'm already self-conscious about and not necessarily the real things she wanted from me that, to her, I wasn't delivering on and which she used to justify her affair. Maybe this older, less attractive guy is better for her, who knows.

She never even told me her motivations because she was too much of a chickenshit to be straight with me. Getting the Blameshift Extravaganza means having to decode the message through a heap of noise. It leaves me blaming myself for only the things I'm already self-conscious about and not necessarily the real things she wanted from me that, to her, I wasn't delivering on and which she used to justify her affair.

The only motivations I got were that "she" was funny and easy to talk to and that she had a big circle of friends from work (he had the same friends) that made it easy for them to just get along with. Granted, when they did hang out with their work friends together during the affair they did not do so as a couple as that would have been bad (the OBS is also a co-worker and part of that same circle of friends) so basically part of the affair fantasy my WH had was about replacing the OBS - taking his wife and his life apparently (thought I'm pretty sure he really doesn't want a 3 year old to raise). Not sure how that would go over with those friends seeing as the OBS is looked upon as the guy everyone likes - oh yeah, and my WH was in their wedding and was one of his close friends before I blew it up.

That's the entire justification that he had. Oh, and of course because she has the same job as him she fits in with all his work friends better than I do. He has excluded me (and himself) from that group of friends for over a year now - and I'm sure he blames me for that (instead of the fact that his AP would usually be at these get togethers and I didn't want any part of that). He made it my burden to find new friends for us to hang out with. He did nothing but sulk as say our social life was nonexistent unless we traveled to visit friends of mine elsewhere. He blamed me for his unhappiness with the social life he fucked up with his affair.

As for his AP... She's about 17 years younger than me (I'm older than WH and she's younger than him by about the same margin). She makes more money than me (now - I gave up a spectacular paying job when I moved here where WH's job was that out earned not only my WH but her as well - they make the same as they have the same job). IDK if she's "more physically attractive" than me but likely as she's younger.

So did he trade up or down? In his mind, likely up. Younger. More money. More attractive. And realistically, he probably doesn't think too badly about her being a cheater as he is one himself - so any negative qualities people like us could attribute to her aren't big negatives for him at all. Would I want her or even want to be her or god forbid date/marry someone like her? Absolutely not. But the thing is, that is exactly what I did anyway.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 4:16 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

Oh - and I guess it's official. I belong here (and in just about every other I can relate forum on here except betrayed menz and same sex AP forum!). After our IHS was terminated (by him) two nights ago because if I'm not willing to "act like friends" then I need to leave and although "this has nothing to do with AP - she is out of the picture" he was talking to her last night until after midnight (I still have WiFi tracking set up) so it's all a lie but he won't admit it, not even now. He seemed relieved, sitting around reading the news, doing housework, and glued to his phone generally. When I looked at the router logs this morning (for my own closure as I'm not going to get it from him) sure enough, they were chatting away off and on for hours.

So I'm a member of the "no closure" club, the false R club, the LTA club, and ultimately the ILYBINILWY and I'm not going to tell you but I left you a long time ago for my married AP who is also my (now) former best friend's wife because I don't give a shit about anyone but me club.

just venting.

Argh the sadness. My poor children. Mourning the past, mourning the future. Worries about my kids - will this freak turn them like her? Will I settle into my new life,find someone else, and then she decides to fuck me up again and move her and the kids away (seeing the lawyer next week - first question on my list is how to protect against this). will she slowly turn the kids against me (they have already said to me that they would like to live with me).

Cycling through such horrible feelings every day. One minute I am fine, next minute I am weepy, next minute I am terrifed, next minute I am morbid,next minute i feel content and peaceful, and then back to the start again. Distraction is good and I can be distracted whilst I am distracted, iyswim. But the gaps in the day, alone with my thoughts, are still awful. Sometimes it’s just holding onto the mast and hoping that the churn and confusion in me subsides. I have given up on trying to “think my way out of it”. I observe it and that’s it. venting here helps.christ knows where i would be without my daily meditation.

I think the root of my misery is the lack of closure. If she was even just to send a damn text saying: “the marriage is over. I have found someone else. But please remember this had nothing to do with you, and you did not deserve this. I am sorry for all that has happened to you. I wish us a peaceful divorce and a supportive coparenting existence. And I wish you health and happiness.” Just that, something along those few lines, would put my recovery forward soooo much. But I get nothing. It’s like being horribly tied and linked to a monster that by some fucked logic I still worry about and have feelings for. It’s like the ugly fucking monster is sitting in the corner and I don’t know when it will pounce. I feel so emotionally vulnerable.

The narcissist “literature” is actually not helping – it just makes me more terrified (what will she do next. What if, what if?) whether she is or not I guess is irrelevant.

I have had a handful of really good days since June when she told me. I have portions of the day that are “good” and I feel strong and carefree. I am hoping the trend will be that these peaceful times overtake the absoloute shit that i still go through.

I now know fully the meaning of the words heartbreak, sadness, dread, confusion. Thanks for giving me these new perspectives, wife.

does anyone think it a good idea for me to seek closure with her?

to have a conversation that begins, "lets discuss what happened and the future".

with the explicit premise that we will not be getting back together.

i am tempted to do this. i don't know if it will fuck me up even more, but i am tempted.

she has given me nothing. she cheated. we separated. she stuck with him. and there has been nothing in terms of communication since other than kid pick ups.

Closure doesn't exist. Mistake #1 following the discard is thinking you're ever going to get something beneficial from these people again. Anything that appears to be beneficial to you is likely a facade to help them continue getting what they want from you. Yeah, yeah, it's a cynical mindset, but people who cheat and leave and excuse themselves to treat you like dogshit are a special breed of selfish clownass.

He seems relieved

TISL, that's because he wants to sweep you under the rug. These people don't like facing reminders of their selfish behavior. Out of sight, out of mind is their MO.

There's not enough karma in the universe to bite these people in the ass in all the ways they deserve.

Abandonedguy is right re: closure. You will not get it. Last night I asked for the “truth” as to why this has really happened, as I presented him with the final document for him to have notarized regarding a property we jointly own. It’s the final legal thing we have to do, and I have no doubt it will be signed and on the table tomorrow. Funny, with the financials he had been absolutely truthful. He spent a pittance on her. No dinners. No fancy gifts. As far as I can tell a few hundred dollars worth of coffees and to go lunches is about all he spent on her over the course of 2+ years. He has been true to his word as far as anything we have held jointly is concerned. But that is the end of his truth telling. Unfortunately puff, I suspect if you go looking for closure, like me, you will get lies to the end. He denied just last night that there was anything remaining between he and his AP and then he contacted her as he was driving to buy me dinner as he was “concerned I hadn’t eaten all day.”

I too would appreciate some semblance of what you wrote that you wish your wife would say to you, but for me (and likely you) that will never happen. Why? Because one, they don’t feel they “owe” you that, and two, they have moved on in their mind already and don’t want to deal with what they have done anymore. They want to be “free” of that “burden” and not feel bad. I’m sure in my WHs mind he thinks he’s doing me a favor but in reality he’s only looking out for himself (and for her). I am nothing to him but a painful reminder of the person he is. When he looks at the mirror I reflect he is an ugly monster and therefore erasing me from his life is what he wants to do. Try to get closure if you want but know it is likely as possible as getting water from a stone.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 11:06 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

have felt better since that last rant.

i've gone through some radical acceptance of some outcomes that were hanging over me.

so i get the phoen call one day "it will be better for my quality fo life if i move and i am taking the kids with me, up to you if you follow".

well, if it happens. i'll follow. and at least i will be able to use the sale of the house to buy my own house. and, who knows, the kids could even end up wanting to live with me then as id have the space(they are even starting to make those noises). although i will be moving away from the city i grew up in and love and all my friends and family, and my half-decent job, i would survive. i would thrive.

she might never even do that, but i have grown to accept the outcome that was looming in my head.

the other thing i need to work through is to stop feeling sorry for her. that is proving so difficult. crazy, isn't it. if i am down, i project those feelings onto her too. if i am happy, likewise.

i need to remember than pain is good for people. let her feel it. she might even learn from it. but damn i feel sorry for her sometimes. horrible cognitive dissonance, guilt. guilt - when i know intellectually that i have nothing to feel bad about in regards her current situation. but trying to convey that to my heart is another thing. this crisis is a crisis of the heart. but teh crisis does get weaker, like everyone said it would. thank God!

just trying to work through it. but definitely a lot better emotionally than a few days ago. i had another day yesterday where i barely thought of it and my mind was skipping along quite serenely as if id never met her.