SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I hope you two are occasionally watching comedies, or fun, feel good stuff (happy ending type) together . . .

[This message edited by c24j at 6:36 PM, October 3rd (Tuesday)]

Realistically, what are you hoping for here? You just said he is probably not going to change his mind. So far, what you are doing seems like eternal picking at a scab. Total pain shopping. By the way, your version of the frequency of your trysts, and your H's are not even close. You get this worked out?

Maybe the best thing for both of you is to give him some space. You know the cliche: how can I miss you when you won't go away?

Maybe you should spend a couple of weeks with your family. Get your mind off fixing everything in 90 days for a bit. Maybe focus on what you really see your life will be like over the next five years if by some chance your H changes his mind.

There has to be a better way than alternately waiting and watching for a shoe to drop or sobbing and crying. That is the image you are projecting here. Do you talk to him about any substantive topic other than something incidental to your affair?

Have you gone to lunch with a friend? Gone shopping on your own just because? Seen a movie by yourself? Is there anything fun and engrossing in your life at all?

Give him some space. I don't see how it can hurt. It might be enormously therapeutic.

[This message edited by longsadstory1952 at 11:19 PM, October 3rd (Tuesday)]

Longsadstory- how much of this thread did you read? She was away visiting family and preparing her sister for her wedding for a couple of weeks very recently.

And if my wayward husband decided to take a break to get away from the "misery" of my post dday decision, I would have taken the earliest appointment my attorney had open. What kind of message does that send to the BS - for the WW to take her mind off fixing everything she broke?

Bad advice all around.

c24j - Not much. BH usually doesn't want me to watch TV with him, and the couple of times he's been ok with it recently the plot has involved infidelity (The Room and GLOW), which he remarked seemed to affect me more than him. He appears to be softening on the TV thing, so maybe I'll have a different answer in the nearish future.

Longsadstory1952 - It's been a difficult couple of weeks, but my being gone seems to make things worse, at least as far as I can tell. I get so anxious, I can't focus. I've been gone from home for about 1/3 of the time since DDay, primarily at his request (3 weeks in late July/early August and then 1.5 weeks in mid September). While I was out of town for my sister's wedding, the friend I stayed with in July offered to let me stay with her again if I needed it. I let BH know in case he would prefer for me to leave, and he said he didn't think it was necessary.

We talk a fair amount - not nearly as much as we used to, but there is talking. Mostly about his career. He'll ask me for opinions on things he's working on, or complain about the contractors he works with. We're still in a mode where he gets to dictate when we talk, which usually means we talk about stuff going on with him. But yes, we do talk.

I don't go out by myself except to run errands, but I do sometimes go out to meet friends. My cousin was visiting town last weekend, so I had lunch with her. I also volunteer twice a month, and I went to a couple of events with friends back in the summer time. Earlier tonight, I made dinner plans with a friend for Thursday. But I really don't do much. This isn't unusual for me, but it's lonely now.

I bake, too. Lately it's been pies:

As for the "trysts" question - I'm not sure why our versions would differ, although I don't know what he's said so it's hard to answer. I also don't think I ever made a full tally here so that could be why. The disclosure I put together for BH was 8 pages. BH hasn't brought up concerns about any discrepancies to me, and I hope if he has any that he says something so we can resolve them.

Sassylee - Just wanted to say thank you for chiming in. I always value your input.

Did he like the pie?

or does he like it with ice cream or cool whip?.

I hope he did.

What else does he like? Keep it up.

Harrybrown - Yes, he liked the pies. I'll be making another one on Sunday. Icecream is preferred, but then you can't eat it for breakfast.

Another thing I didn't mention here was on Monday I got him some apple cider. It is BH's favorite, and he hasn't been able to get any in years. It's only available from this one store 3 hours away from us (no shipping) and they have really limited supply. It was just lucky timing, but a coworker of mine happened to be going last weekend and was able to pick up a gallon of it for us. BH savors it like fine brandy - pouring just a tiny bit each time, and making it last for months! It's great to be able to give him something that he so clearly appreciates. He had gone so long without it, and I was so happy to be able to arrange for him to get some this year.

He likes football. I've always hated it, but I'm realizing now that it's because I didn't want to look stupid because I didn't know the rules. However, I also refused to learn said rules and was a real brat about it. So, I'm also making an effort to watch the games, stay engaged and ask all of my stupid questions. (Which he seems to have no issue answering.) It helps that I'm grateful for any time he is willing to let me watch TV with him, no matter what is on.

I dunno - they're little things, but in general I'm trying to be more thoughtful and present.

One sign of progress today, that made me smile:

Work stress was a huge situational factor in my affair. Actually, it wasn't stress - it was feeling inadequate, incompetent, invisible, and impotent at the office. I've always taken great pride in my work. Probably too much, because it became the sole thing feeding my sense of self-worth. That left me extremely vulnerable when things started to go south, as they eventually did.

Pre-affair, I wasn't doing well. My morale was in the toilet, so my work suffered, which further tanked my mental state. Then, during the affair I was using lots of work time to see AP. That obviously had very negative effects on my job performance, as well.

And of course, after DDay, I was barely functioning.

All of that is to say: It's been a long time since I've been working to my usual standards.

However, today I did a small project for our CFO, and this was the response I got back:

"Thank you so much. Our old CSCE is back!"

There's been a small spring in my step all day, as a result.

I haven't responded in a while.

I am glad to see some things are going better for you. That's certainly a sign that your efforts to focus on your own recovery and improvement are working.

Keep it up. I hope you can learn to live and be happy where you are.

Xhz700 - Thank you, I hope so, too.

Just the other night BH was talking about something I did after DDay and he said "can you even imagine acting that way now?" The answer was no, I definitely couldn't.

I get frustrated because I don't see change in myself, but when things like this happen to show it to me, it's encouraging.

The pies look delicious CSCE. I'm pleased BH liked them. Hows about making some real homemade custard. Not that I would know how but I've had some at a restaurant, if that isn't a contradiction in terms, and it really added to the enjoyment.

Some encouraging signs in all directions. Keep up the good work

You need to work on healthy ways to find happiness on your own before you can work on making others happy. You’re getting there but you can’t do everything at once. Your IC needs to help you sort through this and see the items next on your happiness with a clarity that you do not have right now.

Right now you’re just drowning with the weight of everything. You’ll occasionally break the surface and feel the cool fresh air and bright sunlight but you cannot stay up because of all the items you have tied to you.

Icecream is preferred, but then you can't eat it for breakfast.

Who says?

I think the hardest thing post D-Day was getting back to feeling normal with my WH, and by that I mean, getting to the point where I didn't feel like I was living with a stranger. I think you're making some strides in the right direction by trying to engage more with your BH on the things he likes - if I were him, I would be encouraged by it. But it takes time, and reading your story, I feel you should take some encouragement from the fact that he seems willing - for right now, at least - to give you that time. To give himself that time.

These little things you do not only show him that you care enough to do these things for him, but they also serve as a reminder that even though you did awful things that neither of you ever thought you would do, you're still you and you still KNOW him. You're not a stranger. You know what he likes, you know what his interests are, and you're committed to being more engaged with him when it comes to those things, or just showing that yes - I know you love this cider, and I love you and think of you always now, so here you go. You know? And for me, I remember the little gestures seeming more genuine than grandiose ones, because it seemed like...I don't really know how to explain, but it seemed like it was less likely they were just for show? If that makes sense?

I think you're doing great so far, CSCE. Keep doing these things - it shows that you're focusing on the present, what you can do NOW. Every day he doesn't walk out that door is another gift to you, another chance for you to keep on going and showing and proving. I'm still pulling for you guys.

[This message edited by beauchateaux at 5:34 PM, October 5th (Thursday)]

SorrowfulMoon - I haven't made homemade custard, but the next pie is butterscotch. I'm not sure yet if I'm going to top it with whipped cream or meringue, but I'm also going to be making a small cake for a friend on Sunday, so I'll have lots of egg yolks left over (the frosting is meringue-based). Custard would be a great use for those! If I make any, I'll let you know how it turns out.

Sharkman - I agree that the weight of it all is crushing, and that it's not healthy. I feel overwhelmed much of the time, and the rest I'm exhausted from trying to keep so many balls in the air. It's a viscous cycle. I feel guilty and anxious for time spent on me, but without it I burn out. I find myself staring blankly into space a lot, because my mind just gives up. It's hard.

My IC is trying to help, but there's a resistance in me that I'm having trouble dealing with. At least a part of it is this foreboding feeling that I don't want to be happy just to crash back down to reality. It's the idea that the impact will be less painful if I just stay down, I guess. I realize it doesn't make any sense, and that it is totally unhealthy, not to mention borderline wallowing, but I haven't been able to shake it. To illustrate: just yesterday I was having a really good day - I had an interview that went well, work was good, and I had dinner with a good friend - but I come home to find that while I was gone, BH triggered, and I felt so awful for being gone and having a good time while he was alone and struggling... and then all the shame and self-hate came back with a vengeance. Like, how dare I be happy? I don't know. It's hard to explain.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that you are absolutely right, but I'm having a hard time putting that knowledge into practice. I have IC tomorrow, and I'm sure it will come up.

Beauchateaux - I know what you mean. The small things feel more authentic and genuine to me, too. Maybe "organic" is the right word? Instead of coming from a thought of "what's something I could do", they come from a smaller, more intimate place. A spur of the moment, "just because" place. Those feel like less thought and more heart, to me.

I appreciate the encouraging words - I really am doing my best.

The reason you are fighting for him and the reason you are fighting to be happy is because you don’t think that you deserve to be happy. The only post in this thread that you had a glimpse of being genuinely happy was when you were baking.

For you divorce wouldn’t be the worst thing ever. I am not throwing a 2x4 or trying to get you to look at the bright side but you will have a very very difficult time if you stay married because you will continue to chase rather than be.

Stop trying and start doing. Having a tough time? Go get a massage. You deserve it. Not in a ‘I’ve been working hard way’ but because you are important and you know you take care of important things.

You decided to end this marriage a year ago probably because you are a happiness chaser. Now you’re fighting the man that you fired from that job because you’re chasing. If you’d just stop for a damn second and be happy the situations would start working out in your favor over time.

Sharkman - I'm not sure it's so much that I don't think I deserve it, as it is that I don't know how to obtain it on my own. Doing things for me doesn't make me happy - they make me feel awkward and uncomfortable. I'm only happy when something I've done makes someone else happy. It's like my happiness isn't about me, as stupid as that sounds. As a weird example: I really enjoy baking. All the things I bake? I almost never eat them - not even a bite. Even though I have a crazy sweet tooth, I give them all away.

I understand your point, and the need for improvement in that area, but I'm not sure divorce would necessarily teach me how to be happy for me. Not saying it wouldn't, either - just that I believe the steps I need to take to get there are likely going to be the same, no matter what my personal situation is. I suppose being on my own would make it easier to focus on myself, since there wouldn't be any other options.

t/j

In case anyone is interested, here's a photo of this week's pie:

[This message edited by CantSleepCantEat at 8:14 PM, October 8th (Sunday)]

[This message edited by CantSleepCantEat at 8:17 PM, October 8th (Sunday)]

You ought to open a bakery!

CSCE,

Take a look at this-

Sharkman posted:

you are fighting to be happy is because you don’t think that you deserve to be happy.

Your response:

Doing things for me doesn't make me happy - they make me feel awkward and uncomfortable. I'm only happy when something I've done makes someone else happy.

So my questions would be: Why does doing things for yourself make you uncomfortable? Why are you only happy doing things for others? Is it possible deep down that you think you don't deserve happiness like Sharkman suggested? Or that you believe the only admirable quality you have is the ability to make others happy? Do you only think you are worthy of love and affection when you are doing for others? If not one of these, then why is it you feel awkward doing things for yourself?

Sounds like you depend on others to make you happy since you don't think you can do it for yourself. So what happens when that other person suddenly stops making you happy? You have to seek out that affirmation from someone else?

You are worthy of love regardless. And you don't need to seek it from others. If doing kind things for others makes you feel good...great! Keep doing that. But also find other things that you like about yourself, develop those qualities, and figure out ways to build yourself up and enjoy life regardless of circumstances and relationships. We cannot depend on others to make us happy. They will fail eventually.

Small world. We don't eat out often (and then normally Indian or Thai) but we went to an English restaurant on Saturday and I ordered apple strudel with creme anglais for my desert. It was lovely but not enough custard! It was a small jar and it was quite thick and my spoon wouldn't go into the jar to scoop it out. I wasn't desperate enough to use my finger but now wish I had

They must have used 100% cream. In some recipes they use a combination of cream and whole milk. On milk I love goats milk. It tastes better than cow's, it is creamier and it lasts much, much longer. Highly recommended!

Also always use vanilla pods and not essence!

The butterscotch pie looks delicious!

[This message edited by SorrowfulMoon at 8:01 PM, October 9th (Monday)]

JoyPursuit -

Why does doing things for yourself make you uncomfortable? Why are you only happy doing things for others? Is it possible deep down that you think you don't deserve happiness like Sharkman suggested? Or that you believe the only admirable quality you have is the ability to make others happy? Do you only think you are worthy of love and affection when you are doing for others? If not one of these, then why is it you feel awkward doing things for yourself?

Maybe it's a flavor of what Sharkman said, but what resonates more is the idea that I was putting so much energy into denying the feelings within me, that I fell out of touch with all of them - the good ones, too. I was numbed. So, in place of my own emotions of happiness, which I had prevented myself from feeling, I relied on others' feelings to give me a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment that I used to supplement the emptiness inside me. Does that make sense? I'm not sure if it does. It's also part of why I don't like being by myself, and why I lose all drive when on my own - I rely on others to motivate me, too.

There is a theme I'm noticing of total discomfort with myself in pretty much all ways. I dissociate. I have a terrible memory, I am out of touch with my emotions, I get all of my emotional cues from other people, in times of stress I shut down. I'm consistently disconnected. To do things that make me happy requires that I know what makes me happy...and I don't. That's probably hard to understand, but it's true. It's so much easier to make other people happy - I know how to do that (usually), and so I'd rather do that. But for me...I couldn't tell you.

All of that being said, there is likely some element of "worthiness" or "deservedness" in it, considering how emotional I get when people are considerate/concerned with my feelings. Maybe I don't value my own happiness as much as others'?

Last week my IC told me I was "doing a lot right" with regards to therapy (in response to my concerns that I was going to be perpetually broken and stuck like this) and I broke down. Like, immediate, ugly sobs. There's something in me that still reacts viscerally to anything remotely encouraging or compassionate. The day I can hear the words "you are enough" and not even feel a stinging in my throat, I'll know I've reached a real milestone.

Sounds like you depend on others to make you happy since you don't think you can do it for yourself. So what happens when that other person suddenly stops making you happy? You have to seek out that affirmation from someone else?

Yes, all of this is true. When a source of happiness/affirmation dries up (or I stop being receptive to it), I have to find it elsewhere, and that is incredibly dangerous. I realize how susceptible I am to that, now, and it really scares me. You're right - people will always fail that requirement eventually, and on top of that it's not fair to them to need so much.