SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Okay, this is weird for me so bear with....

Marriage is a contractual agreement, all emotions aside, that is what it is.

I think it would be very foolish to sign away everything leaving yourself as a future homeless person....

I get her point, but money is not going to replace what was lost actually. Money or security (as far as assets) is not going to make her feel better. For whatever reason she has selected this to focus on.

I would suggest you both sit down with an experienced attorney (or get one each) and work things out. You should take responsibility for the debt accumulated during your career change. It might have been a good idea, but you were clearly emotionally not ready to do so and it didn't work out (AND you didn't check with her first) so that's really on you. Item Checked.

You should attempt (if it's not a bad idea, I have no idea what the mortgage climate is currently like) to refinance and have your name on the mortgage as well. But that's something you would have to look into.

In the post nup, if you feel so inclined, perhaps offer 60/40 on the proceeds from the house. I would not go much lower then that. You will need to support yourself in an expensive climate and likely pay child support.

You can't predict what you will do in the future and frankly, no one can (straight up, I don't trust anyone who says, "I would never"). We can not even begin to imagine should the perfect storm of issues arrive what we would or would not do. We have a self image we prefer to lean on, and we'd LIKE to be able to say I never, but you don't know until you are there. All you can really offer to do is wake up and each day try to be the kind of man she deserves. That's it and you're not even guarantee you'll live through that day.

Just want to say that typically when you sell the house, the title company would pay off the mortgage first and then disburse the funds as instructed. In other words, she would not have any debt after selling.

This just happens to be my industry.

Yes my friend, do not be emotionally blackmailed into signing anything over.

Yes you absolutely cheated and that is your burden to bear and amend for, but using the affair then bringing up the AP to guilt trip you to try and push you towards signing is not on.

Do not do it.

Sadly many BS are acting like they are in it solely for the money. So my advise to you: Get rid of the debt asap, it is top priority now!

you need a mediator or lawyer. IMO, it's too early to do such a thing. we have about the same dday and i am just now able to breathe. My WH never said he loved her or wanted to leave me. That is some heavy shit to get over and you both need more time and some legal advice.

ETA excuse that emoji! i must have fat fingered it on my phone

[This message edited by tiredofcrying59 at 1:03 PM, July 22nd (Saturday)]

DaddyDom - Your situation sounds almost *exactly* like what I'm going through. I still haven't decided what to do. My BS has demanded that if she decides she is willing to go down the R path with me, there has to be significant financial restitution. Not only does she want me to sign over all of the equity in the family home, but she also wants a substantial financial payment each month. Her reasoning is that she's been a stay-at-home mom for our entire marriage and she needs to feel "safe," to feel financially secure, if she's going to try R. I also think part of it is that she wants some pressure on me to make sure I don't stray again. If I do and she leaves, I essentially have nothing. But there's also no guarantee she won't immediately file for D as soon as I sign the agreement. I'd like to think not, but when she's in the anger/rage part of the roller coaster, I can almost see her doing it out of spite.

My attempts to try to sort of negotiate what she's demanding have been met with the same sort of kickback you're getting. I try to express my concern that if we eventually divorce, I'll have nothing. I probably won't be living on the street, but it'll likely be a one bedroom flea trap. I need to be able to get a safe place where my children can come stay with me. But when I express these concerns I'm told I'm being selfish and trying to be manipulative and that I should have thought about such concerns before I went out and had an A. She'll go on to say that if I'm truly committed to R, and to her and our family, I should be willing to do what she demands without hesitation and without arguing.

There is no easy answer. I know I'm the one who did wrong and there have to be repercussions. But signing over all future financial stability just to prove to her that I'm committed is an awfully big risk. I find it incredibly challenging as a WH (who's trying to R) trying to stand up for my rights. The message I continually get from my BS is that I have no rights.

[This message edited by AshamedDad at 9:18 AM, July 23rd (Sunday)]

AshamedDad

As someone wiser than me pointed out, financial restitution will not fix this. I would wholeheartedly agree with a postnup that would give her much of what she wanted in the event you cheated again.

I wish you the best and hope you and your wife can come up with a plan that will be agreeable to both.

I feel for you guys - I do. I also understand your BS's, you're asking her to trust you won't devastate her again with no guarantees she won't be emotionally bankrupted if it goes sideways. She's asking you to trust that she's not going to "cheat" you and divorce as soon as you agree to her terms. In a way, you're now experiencing much of the same anxiety and insecurity BS's endure trying to reconcile...

[This message edited by sassylee at 11:43 AM, July 23rd (Sunday)]

It is extremely problematic to apply what may or may not have happened in Medford's marriage to any other situation. We do not know what his wife said or how she felt, or that she 'tricked' him. Any BS has been through enough trauma, they don't also need to be treated with suspicion for which they have done nothing to deserve.

Hence:

I'm familiar with Mefford's situation and that came up during the talk this morning, but honestly that only made things worse.

For the record, she wrote to me and she states that she never said she would take everything and leave me with nothing. That it is in my head.

I also wanted to point out that leaving you destitute wasn't mentioned as a desire of hers in your original post. A lot of posters seemed to think that was the case. I doubt that she would want to leave you in a position that negatively affects your daughter.

I don't know what the answer here is DaddyDom. Your wife sounds pretty awesome though:

she has been working hard to make this work, giving of herself, trying to help ME heal as well as herself, and shouldering the financial risk as well as the emotional devastation.

and you sound remorseful. I really hope it works out for you guys.

I think you guys are calling this the wrong thing. This isn't restitution. This is a consequence stemming from your infidelity and is made to secure her future. Who has put more into the house? How much have you contributed to the mortgage?

I say, write the post-nup agreement with the clause that if either of you cheat it is null and void depending upon who put the majority into the house to-date on percentage received for sale. 60/40 or whatever with you losing everything if you cheat. Stating that the children will be provided with adequate care if either split.

foolish and unacceptable beyond words.

it may be, so was cheating.

I disagree that your wife is in it for the money. I think she is looking for a your commitment and fearful of you cheating again especially since you were making plans to move out with the AP. It is natural for us to jump to all sorts of conclusion (like spite) because we were liars and cheats, that is what we see. Alterior motives. It doesn't sound like that is your wife from what you have written. It sounds like she did everything and you abandoned her for a quick lay. Same as me. She wants a guarantee that you will never take her for granted again while she held you up to the best of her abilities during your time off from work and depression. A guarantee that you won't give in to instant gratification like you did for the affair and leaving your job without discussing it with her. Give her time, she is hurt because she has done so much for you and you took that for granted, not to mention advantage of and chased after someone that didn't sacrifice for you. If you guys are R, stop focusing on the money thing and hear the words behind her reasons.

It is extremely problematic to apply what may or may not have happened in Medford's marriage to any other situation. We do not know what his wife said or how she felt, or that she 'tricked' him. Any BS has been through enough trauma, they don't also need to be treated with suspicion for which they have done nothing to deserve.

agree, and your wife did clarify she wasn't going to leave you unable to care for the children.

Is the real fear that you don't feel secure that she may not to stay through all your work? The unknown and the insecurity you are now facing that down the road it may be a deal breaker? Been there done that and the only thing you can do is move on and stop being stagnate through that fear. Bite the bullet, do the work, and hope for the best. Earn it.

I've read in some books on coping with infidelity where a counselor will ask the WS for one big grand gesture to help their BS heal.

Personally I'm not really in favor of this because it looks like paying off a debt. A (bad) WS might say - "Look, I paid off the debt (the affair), so shut up about it already!" So in that sense, the gesture is a bad idea.

However - sometimes a big change is necessary for a BS so they can attempt to heal. In my case, I insisted on a move away from the city and state where OM lives. Of course that wouldn't prevent WW from hooking up with him again (although it would add difficulty). The reason I couldn't abide staying in that city was that 90% of the LTA happened there. Everyday I would pass "their" restaurant, "their" coffee shop, and the motels they slept together in. It was literally Trigger City. I was a nervous wreck.

Add to this the fact that just prior to Dday we had moved back to that city (long story for another day), and OM has somehow found out about that. He knows my past and knows what I could do to him if I set my mind to it, so he called me at work one day. He said that if I made any attempt to even things up, he would not only have me arrested but would re-take my wife from me.

I doubt she would have wanted him back, as she was pretty pissed off at him by then. But the fact that he knew our address was troubling. I was always looking over my shoulder. When ever we'd go somewhere I was always scanning the crowd for his face. It was driving me nuts.

So the one big gesture I wanted was to move away. WW was pissy about it, but she got over it and we're fine now.

Was that a payment of the dept? Hell no. It was what I needed to feel safe.

I wonder, if OP's BW isn't needing this one big gesture from OP for the same reasons.

I wanted a postnup similar to what your wife is looking for OP. I am a SAHM though, and wanted it because my WH had talked to his AP about leaving me after I gave up everything for our family. Trusting someone after you've been betrayed like this is a feat that at times feels impossible. Zug, as usual IMO, nailed it in his response.

I never wanted the post nup to screw my WH over. It would purely be a safety net for me to ensure that if he were to cheat again that I would not be screwed if he decided to leave with an AP the next time. I spoke with an attorney and it was going to be around $3500 for my postnup, so I haven't done it yet. My WH was completely ok with signing away anything involving money away though. Honestly, the fact that he was so willing to sign was a good thing to me.

I understand wanting to look after yourself - but you did that when you had your affair. It doesn't seem like she's asking for anything too crazy. Isn't it time now to put your wife first? You're asking her to take a chance on you, but you won't take a chance on her?

Odd I read this post today. Not an hour ago, my H and I reached an agreement that I asked him for kind of out of the blue. I asked him if he would be willing to sign an agreement that IF he cheats again I will be entitled to ALL of his 401k. He agreed without any hesitation (this is HUGE b/c I know how proud he is of his 401k and he works that money, moves it around regularly). We will have this written up and legalized.

For me, this really helps me believe that he is willing to give up everything in order to prove to me that he will never cheat again. Let's just say I feel a LOT better knowing he is willing to do this. Maybe your BW wants to feel exactly what I am feeling right now?

So sounds like you are in a community property- I am not. Your state is no-fault only - mine is not. My X filed no-fault, I counter filed using the adultery. I made multiple settlement offers, he demanded trial - jury trial till it was taking so long and was postponed again past year 2. So it was a bench trial. It was a 30+ year long marriage, I had been SAHM till small retail job when kids where in college. I offered 50/50 split of everything except I was to keep most household contents. He wanted low alimony amount for 3 years.

Judge gave me more alimony than I had offered in settlement, duration until he takes full retirement. Everything else, his military retirement, civilian pension, 401K, bonuses that were paid after he filed & all investment accounts were divided 50/50. The mortgage was almost paid off, judge ordered 70/30 split of house equity (I got the 70) and all household contents to me except some items we agreed he would get. The X felt it was so unfair, he filed demand for new trial.

Obviously "fair" has a different definition to each of the parties and it is subject to the laws in each state.

I did the pick me dance & begged him to consult an attorney for info on how finances would be divided before he filed. Instead he listened to AP who was a 3 x divorcee. Oh well. Financially I am set for life. Emotionally, day to day I am fine. I have walked away from long time friends who told a simple lie - will never tolerate less than 100% honesty from anyone- not even parents. I fully expect to be alone (romantically) the rest of my life.

I don't know what is fair anymore.

From another perspective:

For whatever reason she has selected this to focus on.

The reason isn't a mystery: DD financially betrayed her by making life-altering career choices that made it necessary for her to shoulder the entire mortgage. Legally, nothing has been done to change the situation.

I don't know the solution, but it's disingenuous to vilify a BS for her "unrelated" greed when, in fact, a unilateral decision affecting her profoundly was made prior to infidelity. I experienced this, and I will tell you one thing for sure: once a certain period of time has elapsed (depends on your state), no judge will care. She will not have the opportunity to gain restitution. Now is the time to address it—however you choose to do so. (I'd get a mediator involved.)

Finances destroy marriages as surely as infidelity does. You were financially unfaithful—at least in her eyes. She has tied the two together in her mind, which seems logical to those of us for whom this has occurred. Being betrayed is being betrayed. Financial betrayal has a clock on it, though. It needs to be addressed now, or she never will be able to address it, legally.

Great point Nightmareo1. Like I said not restitution. It is that grand gesture. I did that and it made a huge difference. Went on FB and apologized to my wife and our friends and family for my actions. Thanked them for being there for her when I was not. Called out the APs. Destroyed my reputation and everything I built off of the pain I inflicted. Another time I refused to allow the second AP to work in my store as a co-manager and told our district manager. These were gestures that showed my wife that she was the one I was loyal to. That I was willing to risk it all for her like I was willing to risk it all for the APs. Just another way to look at it as opposed to restitution/punishment.

I just want to clarify that I don't think the BS in cases like these is necessarily "greedy." That was not my motivation in suggesting the original poster not do this.

My BS asked the same, that I sign the deeds over to her name only for our house that we own and rent out, that the ranch house we purchased this year be in her name only, and that the house we live in currently also be transferred over to her once the mortgage is paid. I agreed to all of this.

My BS was the one who put is in a great financial position, with paying off the first house and renting it out, her idea. She was the one who put all her trust in me to earn the money and she was at home looking after the kids. Suddenly that was all turned upside down, her safety gone, looking at losing everything after finding out about the affair. Putting her trust in me, that I would support the family and look after them, making my life easier at work, so I could concentrate on that whilst she took care of everything at home, and I took the piss. I betrayed her trust and put her future and security on the line. All with her not knowing that I was doing that.

So, yes, I want her to feel safe and know that she will be ok, to at least take that stress away, knowing she has an income and pension in the houses, that she doesn't have to put her future in the hands of a lying cheater. Why would she.

I gave up the right to decide by having an affair.

You BOTH are taking a risk to R, both financial risks and emotional risks. You have no guarantee that she'll forgive you and stick by you either. There are a million things that can go wrong in the next five years. I wonder if your post nup would not be thrown out of court due to being signed under coercion.

You still have rights as a WS. Maybe not the right to privacy but certainly each of you have an equal right to your joint assets.

Money is money. Love is love. One is not a substitute for the other. I would not do it.

I am a mortgage broker but in a different country. In Canada, there is no lender around that would allow someone on title that wasn't signing on the mortgage.

Regardless though, the only way for you to get any equity out of the property is either through a sale or refinance. As she is also on title, she would have to sign for either. Even if you got past that one some how, the bank has a lien on the property for whatever amount. When a property is sold, the property taxes are brought up to date first, then the mortgage lender, then any other liens like construction liens, then the realtor if its a sale and there is a realtor, then the lawyer, then the proceeds are given to the owners. I can't imagine it would be any different in the US than here.

I asked for a post nup. Nothing unfair. i asked him to sign that I get 65% and he gets 35% if he ever cheats again or if I find out that there were anymore A's of any kind that i am not aware of now.

He changed it to 100% which I know would be thrown out of court so we settled on 75%.

I thought 65/35 was fair but he wanted me to have more.

It does feel like a bit of security though, like he is willing to let go of his assets if he were to hurt me ever agin.