SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It would be good to find out for yourself if, why and how the pastor is separated.

There is always someone in the congregation, neighborhood, office who know all the details...about everyone not just the pastor

They usually start a sentence with "I shouldn't be telling you this, but..." Find them.

If there is a PA 99% sure its' not his first rodeo.

Do you think your wife will press charges for reading a notebook?

Your wife thinks spirits guide her hand as she writes. You think the police care you read her diary. I think there might be a mass hysteria or delusion going on in your area. Can you find anything anywhere that a guy got in trouble for reading his wife's diary? The diary that presumably wasn't even from the wife, it was from the spirits who possessed her hand. If you do get charged, just tell the police you were worried that she was possessed, lost her mind, and were afraid for her mental health.

Tell your wife you read her diary about wanting to be with the pastor. I personally would urge her to go now and be with him, let her know if she goes you are no longer an option, sayonara baby.

Your fear and lack of action is going to make your worst nightmares a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Try to act normal. Show regular anger and fear over your wife's betrayal of you and your kids. React to that normally by confronting her on her betrayal. Get her parents involved if need be. Long term, do you think your kids will care more that they had a good time in July 2017 or that mom left dad to be with the pastor.

Your wife has a crush, something I think goes on very frequently. She wrote it down because she is a bit out there, lucky for you or else you still wouldn't know. Tell her about it and blow it up and end it, and then tell her you want to repair the marriage. Don't wait.

Why is it that - without an affair - people talk so much about the need for appropriate communication in a marriage... but after infidelity is discovered no one says, "You know, maybe you should TALK to your wife.?"

You know... COMMUNICATION??

Look, she left her notebook out where anyone could find it (including your children, btw). You read it and she admits to infidelity - physical or not it's still emotional infidelity. She's married to YOU... not him. Forsaking all others, right?

So sit her down and show her what you found. Ask her, straight up, "What the hell is going on?"

If she admits to an affair... you go forward, just like any other poster on this site (no contact, IC, etc.).

If she denies an affair... you go forward, just like any other poster on this site (boundaries, polygraph, etc.).

There are times when I totally understand the need to investigate a spouse. But there are other times when it's really not worth going through all the craziness of tracking your wife. In this case, you already know that she is in love with this guy. What more do you need? You want to wait until she sleeps with him? If she's already slept with him, you want to wait until she does it again?

Cut through the chase and talk to her. Maybe it's an infatuation that needs to be nipped in the bud. DO IT NOW, before it becomes uglier.

Lastly, why in the world are you worried, one iota, about having read her notebook??? If she gives you one single odd glance about having done so, tell her to stick it and move out. You have every right to read it, she left it out for anyone to come across, and... FINALLY... as noted earlier... when have you EVER heard of someone getting in trouble for reading their wife's diary in which she professes love for another guy? Please, a judge (or anyone else) would laugh at the notion.

Dude - get yourself ahead of this. Now.

[This message edited by LifeisCrazy at 12:46 PM, June 22nd (Thursday)]

The best way to deal with this, IMHO, is to put it all out on the table. Total honesty.

Admit to your wife you read what you did. Yes, it may have been wrong, but you were curious and married couples shouldn't have secrets..... But confront her with it. She is going to have to get counseling and maybe for the both of you.

I would tell the pastor as well. Tell him you are very concerned about her feelings and you want NC between them under any circumstances. I am sure he will readily agree.

Look, there's no good time to tell her, so get it done.

If you do put it all on the table, which I support, then today is your last day at this church.

You need to accept this ASAP

OK, OK, I get it, the concern over if it was wrong of me to look in the notebook was foolish.

Seems like I'm hearing two categories here: watch and wait or confront and get it over with. I'm going with the former. I just can't see that another two weeks is going to tip her over the edge (if she isn't already). When we get from vacation, I'll lay the cards (or the pages) on the table. There's another reason to drag this out rather than confront immediately that I can't find the energy to write about just now. Maybe tomorrow I'll write about it.

Yes, I've already thought of calling the Pastor's soon to be ex wife. And will if things spiral. And I've done as much internet research on him as possible. Nothing that I can find..yet. We're relatively new to this church (7 months) and I'm not a big socializer so it's not like I can walk up to people that I really only know to say hi to, and go, "Hey, anything nefarious in Pastor X's backstory?" You should know the congregation LOVES this guy. In fact, I immensely liked him (up until a few weeks ago), one of the best Ministers/Pastors I've listened to over the years.

I appreciate all the advice, even that advice I won't take. I know it comes from a good place and a desire to help. When I'm in this forum I feel like I'm among friends and people who know what I am going through, and what I might be going through later if things break wrong. So again, thanks.

Ok but if you are going to wait and if there are times that your wife is just "going out with friends" you might want to ensure you can verify that.

Also, what will you do if she says she's going to have a private meeting with the pastor before your vaca?

I know someone who doesn't love this pastor. His wife. You should look into why.

^^^ great point. Look, it is going to happen eventually. Show your w that you're a take charge kind. Go visit pastor's stbxw and get this thing off of high Center.

Your w grew distant, right? She likely didn't do that out of unrequited love of Pastor Bob alone.

Count me in on the "wait and watch" side.

Who knows what's going on here. It's all a lot of conjecture at this point. Maybe it's a crush from afar and the pastor has no idea (and the poor guy is getting divorced because his own wife cheated for all we know) OR maybe it's a full blown affair and the pastor is the devil incarnate. You have so little information at this point that there's no way to tell. Now imagine what it's like for us armchair quarterbacks at SI who have seen it all trying to interpose our best guesses with such little data.

I think this calls for a little patience and a lot of sleuthing. The VAR is always a good idea. No one is arresting you for using a VAR any more than they are for walking against a "Don't Walk" sign. Same goes for reading her notebook. Dig into her emails too.

With enough investigating you'll know what's going on (or not) soon enough.

[This message edited by Ponus18 at 7:58 PM, June 22nd (Thursday)]

OK, so I think I can bring myself to write about another reason I think it’s best to watch and wait.

My wife and I were both pretty big drinkers up until recently. I would go through almost two 1.75 L bottles of booze a week and she would do 10-15 bottles of wine. My wife quit early last month, but made it a point to tell me I shouldn’t feel like I needed to. In fact, she kept buying me a new bottle every time one would start to look empty.

So as soon as I found the evidence about her infatuation with the Pastor, I stopped drinking. Maybe I was paranoid, but I wondered if I was being set up. Last week I confronted her about what was going on with her (did not say anything about the Pastor, although I knew at the time) and she promptly replied that it was due to my drinking “among other things”. She brought up things her young adult son (by a previous marriage) commented on about the last time he visited, and some other stuff that even made it sound like she had a list somewhere. So I said fine, I don’t need to drink.

I’m 7 days into abstinence, no cravings, no withdrawal (in fact I feel physically better).

So next weekend before we go on our big vacation to see my parents, we are spending a weekend with her son, her sister, and her mother. I think it is in my interest to spend that time with her family, and with mine, totally alcohol free.

This is another reason why I feel time is on my side. I know my wife, when I bring matters to a head there is a significant chance things go south and end in separation. If I were to do that today, my narrative is wife is in love with Pastor (and has proof) and her narrative is my husband’s a lush (and has witnesses). If I do it after the big vacation, my narrative stays the same; she can try to play the alcohol card but at that point it will just be a mutually shared history of a mutually shared problem rather than “I don’t have the problem but he still does”.

So, there you have it. I’m sure there still will those who say that I must still move on this now. I appreciate you trying to help, but I’m going to wait and watch. And not touch a drop of alcohol.

Ponus18, you likened use of a VAR to crossing against a don’t walk sign. In my state, use of a VAR would be a felony. Not a minor jaywalking ticket, a felony.

And, I really don’t think an affair is going on. The Pastor has been out of town for 4 days, just got back Sunday night. I have a GPS in the car and she’s been nowhere she isn’t supposed to be all week. If an affair was going on you just know they couldn’t wait to get back into each other’s arms. I’m telling you, either the guy does not know, or he knows and they are not acting on it. She visits his facebook page late at night when she’s doing the spiritual crap but I from what I’ve seen their not friends, not sending private messages) so I think she’s just looking at his photos and dreaming.

Thanks everyone for listening. I was in bad shape yesterday. Feel better today. Boy, you’re not kidding when you describe this like a rollercoaster.

dancedad, looks like you have a good plan, and I agree I think it's likely your WW is just infatuated with this guy for some reason, maybe she just feels the need to be infatuated with someone, anyone, to complete the fantasy in her head. It may she sees this in some relation to be part of this spiritual phase she's exploring.

Maybe you can hijack that and turn it to attention to you. Tantric sex. Tell her it looks interesting and she should check it out,....just a thought, trying to help a brother out.

Also, no prosecutor would bring a case over a spouse using VAR to check for cheating partner. A jury would laugh them out of court.

You didn't violate any laws by reading something that was left lying on a table in your house. Hell, it could've been in a locked safe in your house and you didn't violate any laws by reading it. You have ZERO legal issues.

First, great on admitting that you had a problem that likely affected your M. That was hard to admit, I'm sure.

Second, great on stopping. You will feel a lot better as a result. Without a lot of details (ask if you want 'em, but not completely relevant) I, too, turned a bit too far to tippling when xWGF was in her A with the married couple she left for. I, too, stopped immediately upon recognizing the problem. Again, good job.

As to what your W may be feeling - something, some perceived slight, some inner insecurity, combined with (I'm guessing here) a pattern of bad communication between the two of you to cause her to start distancing herself from you. It is likely that, if this is what happened, she feels badly about it. So she has to justify it to herself.

That's the "list" that you noticed. She's rewriting the marital history in her head to justify what she's doing, namely becoming emotionally invested in another man. She knows that that's wrong -but- she feels good as a result and so she wants to find any reason that allows her to allow it to continue.

At a certain point in this process it will have gone too far and nothing you do or do not do will alter that. I hope, for the sake of you, her, your kids, and your M that it hasn't made it that far yet.

There is a body chemistry that goes along with falling in love. When you find someone who interests you your body starts releasing dopamine whenever you interact with that person. Dopamine makes you feel good (source of Runner's High, I believe) and you start associating feeling good with being around the new person. This phase lasts about 6 months and then the dopamine pumps stop pumping all of the time. This is the "Lust Phase" of a relationship.

Next, oxytocin takes over. This is chemical that is sometimes called the "Love Hormone", but should really be called the "Emotional Enhancement" hormone. When we're around people having a social interaction with them certain conditions cause oxytocin to be released, increasing the degree of feeling. So, if your emotional reaction to the person is positive then oxytocin enhances the positive feeling. If your emotional reaction is negative, then the negative feeling is enhanced. That's why being around someone that you don't really like can make them seem even creepier. The oxytocin phase can last up to about 3 or 3.5 years from the start of the relationship and this relationship phase is called the "Romantic Attachment" phase.

Interestingly, oxytocin is always released after about 20 seconds of physical contact. It will enhance whatever emotion the subject is feeling during the physical contact. Google the phrase "The 20 second hug". Here's a tip - If you can get a positive emotional response from your W then suggest that the two of you hug for a bit. Don't get all handsy, just a close hug while you tell her how positively you view her. If you can keep that feeling and hug alive for 20 seconds then her body will release oxytocin _and_ if her emotional response to you is positive then that feeling will be enhanced. This will _not_ win her back automatically, _but_ it _will_ help her to feel more positively towards you.

The last relationship phase is called the "Long Term Commitment" phase. That starts about 3.5 years after the relationship starts. Neither dopamine nor oxytocin are pumping continuously now, -but- they are released during intimacy and intimate physical contact. This is why a healthy sex life is an important part of a long term marriage and also why hand-holding, and appropriate Public Displays of Affection (PDAs) are good.

Dopamine and oxytocin are very chemically similar to other addictive substances. This is now relationships form and why new lovers are so seemingly addicted to each other. They are really addicted to the "good feelings" from dopamine and oxytocin and those are released when they're around their love object. This hormonal override of normal thought processes is sometimes referred to as "The Fog" of an affair. The A partners are temporary addicts. Their thought processes are not normal.

As to outing everything right now, I withdraw that suggestion. I think that you should attempt to re-engage with your W. I think that you should suggest non-pastoral IC / MC for the both of you. I think that you two have probably dropped into a pattern of -not- engaging in purely emotional intimacy and really valuing each other - those things are hard to authentically with that much alcohol around.

Do not get me wrong - I do think that her reaction to all of this stinks. I do not think that you should do the "Pick Me" dance. You are -not- in competition with this other man, your wife's actions and reactions are her own choice. After all, you are in the same marriage as her and you're not writing dreamy, romantic crap about another woman that you leave around the house.

True emotional connection and intimacy requires communication. Good communication can be established via Open, Authentic, Trustworthy, and Honest (OATH) communication. This style of being open reveals your vulnerabilities just as it reveals hers. But this is for later to fully implement.

You do need to do things to disrupt her narrative of you as a "monster". You also need to be the kind of man that she will respect.

Re-read this a few times and post again with your thoughts and questions, please.

Congrats on staying away from alcohol. Alcohol almost ruined my marriage. I don't drink but my wife does or did.

Stay sober.

Devotedman: I can't tell you how accurate you are about what you've written. Communication IS the route of our problem. Alcohol may have made the problem worse, but we drank like fishes 10 years ago when we were madly, passionately in love. However, that all relates back to the stages of a relationship that you detailed.

I intended to anyway, but now more than ever agree with your advice to try to re-connect.

One question, when do I tell her that I know how she feels about this guy? Before counseling? Wait and see if she comes out with it during counseling? Bring it up myself if it becomes clear in counseling she isn't going to mention it?

Look at my sig. 30 years and two failed relationships. You're asking me for advice!?!

Seriously, I am thinking about it -but- lunch hour is over and my work is beckoning seductively. Or something.

In the meanwhile, for some very good ideas, go to the thread in this forum called "I'm back" by member 'suddenlyisee'. He's back here for again with a new wife and things for him are going seemingly well.

Takeaways:

* Your WW will have withdrawal from her E(motional)A(ffair). You don't need to show sympathy for her during that, if it occurs.

* You can recognize what she's done and let her bear her own responsibility for her own actions

* You can avoid blameshifting the state of the M onto her, you do bear some responsibility for the state of the M pre-A

I am thinking re: revealing. Do you think that her response would be, "Well, damn him! He made me do it!" , blameshifting and withdrawing all the more, or do you think that she'd wake up and see the light and reply honestly and in open communication with you?

I'm betting on the first thing from how you've described your communication style...

ETA: I found and fixed one typo. Are there more?

[This message edited by devotedman at 1:27 PM, June 23rd, 2017 (Friday)]

While you're waiting and watching don't waste that time. What you do know is that she has feelings for him. Well, she'd have to be in that mindset for that to happen. What's the state of the marriage? Did you guys get complacent and way too comfortable/lazy with each other? Do you continue to grow together, to discover new things together?

This guy, maybe completely innocently, has turned her eye. For her to turn it toward him she'd have to turn it away from you. Why did she do that? You might have been given a gift that you've found all this out early enough to completely change the dynamic. He turned her eye. You turn it back. How? By being the best version of yourself you've ever been. Don't "nice" her back. Challenge her perception of you. She thinks she knows everything about you. Show her she doesn't. Take her to a couples cooking class where they teach you how to make some gourmet meal, you cook it together, and then you eat it. That's just one idea but the ladies love it.

Change the dynamic of your marriage and turn her eye. She'll forget all about what's his name. Still, while you're doing that, keep a watchful eye over that situation.

I still suggest speaking to the separated wife.

If I hadn't done that, I'd have really known only what my WW told me about AP2. Which is the same bs he fed her. This was a preacher too.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 6:51 AM, June 24th (Saturday)]

^This^ Have a chat with the pastor's ex wife and get the scoop. Also since you've only been in this church for 7 months , find another one and inform your wife the family will be going to a new church, and watch her reaction when you tell her this. if she asks why, that'd be the time to bring up her "crush". You are skating on thin ice whether you want to believe it or not, and the longer you wait the thinner the ice gets, just use this time wisely and get as much info from all the sources you can.