SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I wish you strength brother, the deed has been done and for good reasons but still it is tough and it sucks big time, please know that you are not alone because also via SI people care about you, are here for you, and wish you well. Strength brother

Bravo to a job well done!! Now your healing can begin and you can begin looking towards a brighter future ahead!!

CDB

My heart breaks for all of you (you, your children and your wife). This entire process is so hard no matter what path is followed. I hope in five years everyone is happy and healthy, and have worked through the events of the past year. This situation should not define any of you for the rest of your lives. I am so glad you have the resources and foresight to arrange counseling for your children. I hope they are able to utilize it (some people aren't very well wired for opening up and sharing their emotions).

Thank you for sharing your story. I believe it will help others struggling to survive this situation that we find our selves thrust in. As others keep reminding you, I too will ask you keep a kind eye on yourself, no matter how well accepted and resolved, your moving from one emotional time bomb to another. It is going to take a toll no matter how well planned out you have things.

I can't recall if I have posted here or not but I have been following your story from the beginning.

I want to wish you the best of luck as you enter the next phase of your journey. Personally I have the good fortune to have found a wonderful, faithful woman in place of my awful serial cheating very XWW. You've taken the first big step in this same direction and my trick knee tells me you and your kids will be fine (just as I am and mine are).

Continue strength brother.

Hoping for better times for you and your kids.

I am glad that you did get the kids some help.

Keep yourself stable for your kids and for the new start on your journey.

Hope the D goes smooth, but I have not heard of too many smooth ones.

My current beau just read the entire thread.

Her take: 5 stars, a class act who deserves the very best.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 8:38 PM, July 1st (Saturday)]

So you are going to sacrifice 24 years of marriage, 2 beautiful children, memories and a year of impossibly hard work, all for a snog in a toilet.

After having 2 PAs, being caught in a hotel with the OM, and being absent during your DS's and MIL's health problems to carry on the A, she STILL tried to pull this? Amazing! Either she thinks you're dumb enough to believe this or she is truly delusional in believing she could some how play off having OM in her hotel room as completely innocent.

It really doesn't matter that it has been a full year of R. This entire conversation with her in which she attempted one last time to lie to you about the A and place the blame of D on you has proven that she was never in R for the right reasons in the first place. No remorse, not one bit. Stay the course and weather the storm of her tears and love bombing still yet to come. She had a year to get it together and yet she is basically just as wayward as she was on DDay.

That's a really good point. To hit remorse the wayward must be physically revolted at what they did. That definitely wasn't a great line by her and probably indicative of where she really stood.

However...no matter what she's done she did have a really bad day coming yesterday. It's 100% on her, of course, but while she may not be a good, safe wife my guess is that she's at least not a horrible human. In the heat of the moment, with a sheriff handing you papers, I'm more apt to assume she was just trying every last trick in the book when put literally on the spot.

Or I think it's better that O feels that way, because starting today he needs to do the incredibly hard job of plain old forgiving her for what she did. She will be a co-parent with him for quite some time and the best coparenting situations is where the two folks plain old know they're not married but have someone who is just as interested in his kids as he is.

Basically, IMHO, it's time for him to mentally move on completely. There is now this new person in his life that is a distant partner to help raise his kids. It doesn't matter what this person said about her former marriage. That's not material to the coparenting contract.

So you are going to sacrifice 24 years of marriage, 2 beautiful children, memories and a year of impossibly hard work, all for a snog in a toilet.

A "year of hard work" didn't take with her since her entire statement is epic minimizing. You gave her a chance to change. She didn't.

Thank you for sharing this. It must be painful for you. I am proud of you how you deal with all of this.

Best wishes to you and your kids.

Hi all

I have kept myself very busy this morning and having now just taken a break for lunch I thought I would check in and share. This is going to be a long one because I have so much information to process. I find writing things down for the post helps me process information better.

It is going to be jumbled, mainly because of how I got the information.

Firstly thank you all for the support.

Ponus, your post is particularly encouraging. Another relationship is the last thing on my mind right now. For now my focus is going to be me and the kids, but even just knowing that that is a possibility, makes life more wonderful.

I am in a VERY good space today. So good in fact that it fills me with a bit of trepidation. The last time I felt even half this good, the next day was simply awful. I keep feeling my subconscious saying, “careful, don’t feel this good, remember what happened last time?” Any way I am ignoring the subconscious for the most part.

I am a car guy. I love everything about cars but my own personal passion is taking old cars where their brand image is sensible, reliable, family man and anything but performance, keeping the exterior original bland but then performance moding them to the limit. My last project was a 1999 Toyota Corolla hatch. Original bland exterior, still with steel wheels but it was modded to the point that, intersection to intersection, it could take on a BMW M3. Unfortunately, Jan last year I leant it to a disadvantaged student who needed wheels to get to university and in April last year he totalled it. So no more toy for me.

In IC2 earlier this year it was suggested that I need to have an interest that was something that I loved and was only just for me so I went out and bought a 2007 Honda Jazz (I know that in some markets it is known as the Fit). I know that in some markets this car is a hit with cool young guys but over here it has been so popular with the 60+ generation that nobody aspiring to be cool would be seen dead in one, so the perfect platform for what I want to do. With all the tumult of the beginning of the year I have done nothing on the car but today I have tackled it in earnest. I have set myself such a tough “strip and clean” target for this week that I know I will never achieve it but it will drive me to keep busy with every spare minute. It is also going to be our first “kids and me” project that we tackle after the talk of next Friday evening. Both of them were far too young to help me with the last project but DS loved the road trips that he and I had in it. DS is as much of a car nut as me. Even as a 15 year old teenager DD is such a Tomboy that she will like nothing more than to be elbow deep in grease with dad and DS. This week I am going out and getting them each an overall suit that will be waiting, wrapped at the foot of their beds when they wake up on Saturday morning. Rebuilding our Jazz and our new lives begins after breakfast on Saturday.

Next (told you it is going to be jumbled), in our bathroom we have his and hers basins. On a work day I get up at 5 am so when I shave I am alone at the basins but on the weekends it is always me at mine and WW at hers. This morning I slept in a bit so it was quite late when I was shaving and I glanced across to where she would have been, at her basin, and there was no longing, no sense of emptiness, no sense of loss. In fact there was the polar opposite. That dark, swirling mass of hurt and pain wasn't standing there next to me. In its place was just an empty space in front of a basin, above beautiful tiles.

Ok, then, the 2 good friends (2GF) came over latish yesterday evening. They asked if we could go through to the dining room. Sat down together, quite formally, cleared their throats and said, "we have been tasked with coming ask if there is any prospect for trying just one more time?” I said absolutely not! It was almost with relief that they then reclined more comfortably and said, “We didn’t think so but we were asked to ask.” Followed by, “we might just have beaten you around the head if you had said yes. Nobody deserves what you have been through”. They are still WWs best friends but being a good friend does not mean that you have to be blind to failings.

They then shared that WW had spent the day crying and, completely uncharacteristically, confused and disoriented. She would unpack some stuff from the cased into the cupboards and draws, only to then pack it out onto the hotel room bed and pack other stuff from the cases, look at what was on the bed and then try and pack that back into the draws. Out of sheer frustration 2GF made her sit down and did the packing for her. They have agreed that between them, they will spend the days that WW is not at work, with her and alternate evenings one of them to stay with her. I told them about the counselling sessions I had booked and they have promised to make sure she goes, even if they have to drag her there.

WW tried to attack the mini bar but they stopped her. Having gone out as couples many times they knew our stance on alcohol. WW then tried to order it through room service and they again intervened. WW begged so they let her get something but they controlled the flow.

So first bit on info. While on the business trips WW drank along with all the other colleagues. She said the pressure to partake “to be part of the team” was so intense, particularly in a marketing environment that she gave in after initial resistance. She was so proud of herself for being able to drink on the trips and then not touch it for the months in between. She felt that she had proven her fear of being an addictive personality to be wrong, I know the pressure that is so often exerted in the corporate environment. I hate it and can never understand it. Everyone seems entitled to ask me why I don’t drink but take offence when I ask them why they do. Anyway, despite the pressure I never broke the promise that I had made to WW. She did but I suppose there we far bigger promises made that she broke.

She says that she never got drunk but that the alcohol must have played a part in her letting her barriers down. WW having a little to drink increased the volume of tears and loosened the tongue. They tried to remember all she had said, and often were talking over each other, but I think these are the bits that made the greatest impression on me.

Most of the day was spent with WW crying and explaining to them all she had lost as a result of the “stupidest and most selfish decision” of her entire life. The scale was so unbalanced, how could anyone be that dumb?

These included not being part of her wonderful kids life in what will be the most important years. Losing her dream job etc. But at the top of the list was “losing the first man I ever truly loved.” I must say that first prize for me would be, “being the only man” she ever loved but I suppose any form of being truly loved is not too bad.

You cannot know how good hearing that made me feel. Not because I had won some sort of prize but because it suggests that at some point she did actually love me and maybe our early years were not all farce.

I listened to what 2BF shared and I had two reflections. One, this woman is beginning to understand what she has done. The other was (and this is where your guys analysis is finally beginning to sink in). It is still all about her. All that she has lost. What about what she has stolen from me, the kids, the employer, OBS and her DD. How have I been so blind for 4 + 24 years as to just how selfish this woman is?

Ouch! That hurts. I read so many new JFO post and don’t post a response because there is this poor betrayed person who loves so deeply that they are struggling to let go the most vicious psychopath that has ever walked the earth and they post an anguished question when the answer is so obvious, “Just get out of there! Run, run as fast as you possibly can be grateful for being given the insight into who you have really let into your life. Do you want to spend the rest of it with her?” And now I see that I have given all of this time to that person. If I die alone I will be in a better place than having her in my life. Am I over reacting? Maybe, but for now it looks like that to me.

Next revelation. I have been so focused on processing the pain and hurt of the current reality of A2 that I have done absolutely nothing to even begin to process A1. Processing the current reality of what was the still active A2 was so all consuming that I took A1 and tucked it in the furthest recess of my mind, covered it with a thick callous and said. “Ok, stay there. I will get to you once done with the other.” I knew that it happened. That it started soon after the trips began. Lasted about 3 years and came to an end, apparently, when OBS1 discovered. More than that I did not know or ask about. You will see that reflected in all of my post up to this point.

If you think about it, that is the one I should have tackled first. It took place over a longer period of time, would have continued if not rudely interrupted, and it was the one that broke the gate of resistance down. It having occurred, would have made A2 so much easier.

So through her drunken tears, and in reflecting how little she got compared to what she had lost WW told 2BF that;

AP1 was very much like me in many ways. In physique, stature, mannerisms and interests.

He was from one of the large centres in Scotland.

The A was not all about sex. There was not nearly as much as A2. Usually only once a week, sometimes 2. It was wonderful (whatever than means) always in the bed, always in each other’s arms.

It was brought to an abrupt end when OBS1 discovered. They can’t remember if WW said how it was discovered but OBS made AP1 resign his job immediately, and she called WW and tore a strip into her. Told her that if ever she made an attempt to make any form of contact with AP1 she would report WW to the company for sexual harassment (WW was again one job grade higher than AP1). If only she had followed through with the threat.

I am trying to explain how much, just now knowing this has helped whole chunks of ripped apart insides of me to heal in just a day. Would any of it made R easier. Absolutely not! Infidelity is a deal breaker for me. But would I have been in a better place for longer yes. And for WW, I think I would have been in a better place to help her with understand where she is broken. Up until yesterday I have read about how all WWs are broken and though “utter BullS!” and if they were mine is so together that she certainly is not. Just these scraps of info give me a whole new perspective.

I don’t know if WWs ever come over to JFO to read. I think it will be a while before I will feel confident enough to post anywhere other than here or Divorced/Separated, but the first post I will do if I get the strength, will be to ask them to “tell everything! Not only the sordid sex stuff but everything! Everything, everything!” Even if you are never asked tell! Even if he is not contemplating R and going for D. Tell. You owe it to him to help him heal. And it does help.

I know that there is a whole lot more but for the life of me can’t think of it now. If I remember I will post again tonight. Think this might be enough for now.

Oh yes, just remembered 2BF have agreed to ask WW if I can come over to the hotel for dinner on Wednesday so that we can talk about telling the kids on Friday.

Also, sent a what’s app to the kids with pictures of the roses, aloes and poppies that I took on my walk yesterday and framed the message as it they could have been taken on a walk together with WW. Posted it on the family group so that WW is at least on the same page. Haven’t seen her post anything yet.

You are thinking with extraordinary clarity. Your heart and mind are aligned.

The Jazz/Fit project is something that will become a treasured memory for your children. I can sense the excitement in your words.

Her actions, her own words to you and the 2BFs, show that she is a confirmed serial cheater who did not reform herself.

That said, she must be the best parent she can be to the children. You have set in place that opportunity for her. Perhaps her 2BFs will drive home the point that this must her focus. The children still need their Mum.

Continued peace to you and your family.

You have the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Indeed, your kids are job one.

Your soon to be ex will survive, though she's unlikely to enjoy sex for some time to come.

You dropped a bomb, totally destroying her sense of self.

She's clueless as to who she really is.

That's tragic.

Try to get her to be strong for the kids: She owes you that much; she owes the children at least that much.

Stay the course.

You definately see daylight.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 10:26 AM, July 2nd (Sunday)]

Your story does make me sad for someone who would sabotage her own life and for the loved ones she hurt.

If only WSs can be shown the devastation they will leave behind before they make that one fateful decision.

And to do it twice for such long periods of time was not something just done Willy Nilly. It was well planned. I hope she continues to explore how she let her mind end up in such a low place without thinking how it would affect those she loved.

I will say, I do remember you describing the start of her showing some remorse at the dining room table Friday night when she said how'd I do this to you, how'd I do this to the children? Of course too little realization too late. But exhibits perhaps a chance for her in the future to feel compassion for those she loves and less selfishness. We'll see I guess.

And lastly while I'm sure she can't even comprehend it now, I hope someday she realizes how much you had her well-being in mind right to the bitter end. You didn't have to support her like you did during this process. I'm sure that will be a bittersweet understanding for her knowing that she was so callous to do this to someone that would support her like no one else in the world.... especially the APs.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:19 AM, July 2nd (Sunday)]

Since your wife seems to be in a talkative mood now, it might be a good time for her friends to ask her why did she have the affair with AP1 in the first place. Did she have a completely different narrative of your marriage in her head?

ohforanewme,

Your last post made me remember something from a thread, wrote by a WW. In a nutshell BH got her serve in Dday and went dark, the WW talked to his mother (BH mother) explaining she did a big mistake and that she loves her son, the mother just answer that the WW doesn't event start to understand the meaning of love... The WW never saw BH ever again..

IMO your WW hasn't understand the meaning of love, she has the understanding of a teenager very passionate with a lot of dreams and living just the moment... And when it evolve to a adult love she cant feel it! If is not like honeymooners is not love in her eyes.

I belive she felt out of that kind of love with you long time ago, and she was looking for it, and found it, in her trips. That's why she fonds OM1 made I'm heaven love. Amaizing how she was/is in love with a man that cheats on her family....

She doesn't love you anymore, that's why she doesn't think of the hurt she has done to you and just what she has lost. She is not able to feel a real love, not the whole concept like a grown up, like a wife should.

BTW alcohol had nothing to do with her cheating, IMO it is a symptom of who she was while business trips, a free woman a hyena. She kept contact with lovers even in your country and she wasn't drinking at home. It is just an excuse.

She will understand what she has done and what she has lost in no time now. If she is smart enough she will understand the love that she will be missing now the real love, the real love that you gave her and she thrown away like garbage.

You did an amazing thing on Friday, not just made the strategic move to a better future but put the corner stone to teach your kids that no body should ever just them like your WW did, that they done have to endure such abuse, and most important that the should never do that to another person. Also kids can sense that you were not right, from now on your kids will notice that dad is back!

Good luck

Last thing

Is amazing how she remembers the great relation she had with OM but had the nerve to tell you that everything is going to he'll for a snog in a toilet!

She has been playing you for a long time

The rebuilding the Jazz project is an excellent idea for the bonding opportunity. It also will be the best opportunities for your kids to ask you those tough questions about the divorce, what happened, whom did mom have those affairs with, will you date again, what’s in the future for everyone, and also whether you and their mother might ever get together again. Be prepared for those questions. If you haven’t already it would be a good idea to meet with or call the kids’ therapist to discuss best ways to answer the questions they may have for you.

The story is truly heartbreaking on both sides.

I'm concerned about your healing when you are watching over her so closely.

There has to be a point to where you say "Not my circus, not my monkeys".

Whatever you do, I'm pulling for you.

Firstly, I would like to wish all of my SI friends from the US, happy 4th. Go big time with the fireworks and even if it is just for a day, forget about the sh*t hole that we all find ourselves in.

The anticipated emotional crash that I was so afraid of yesterday hasn’t happened yet today. It might even be a marginally better day than yesterday.

Late last night one of the 2BFs stopped by the house to give me an update of how things are going with WW. (The other is staying with WW for the night). The BF that stopped by had spent Saturday evening with WW. While she was asleep WW attacked the mini bar with some vengeance and was in pretty bad shape when the other BF arrived and woke both of them.

They forced down lots of coffee, made WW go to gym and then got a healthy fruit breakfast.

I was a little sorry that only the one 2BF came over last night. Although they talk over each other and sometimes make it difficult to follow, they seem to remind each other of things that the other missed, and I get a fuller picture when they are together.

By now I realise that WW is chief among liars, and that anything that comes out of her mouth needs to be taken with utmost caution. I don’t think that she has any idea that what she is telling 2BF is getting back to me though. Also, if even just a tenth of what she said to them yesterday is true, I will be a very happy man.

As I understand it, the day started much like Saturday had gone with tears and much remorse. By lunch time though it had moved to utter rage. And as BF described it it was a savage, “break things rage”, with some damage done to the hotel room. (Hope it is not too much. I am in for the hotel bill, as an aside, after the mini bar incident I have called the hotel this morning and given the instruction that they are not to refill the mini bar and that I will not stand good for any room service or bar bills).

I am told that none of the rage is directed at me. Much at herself but most at AP2.

WW said that our bathroom chat after the call between AP2 and myself was a tipping point for her. She says that up to that point her view of the As was that they were a magical fairy-tale fantasy story in which she was a graceful and glittering princess. After my description of the call she a realised that the reality was that her and AP2 were nothing but amateur actors in the most despicable, low budget prom movie ever made. She hates herself and him for that. It was that image of herself that made her move out of our bed and back to gran’s place.

This realisation was made even more vivid when she actually listened to him on the call. It brought a number of shocking realisations.

Apparently the 8 O thing was nothing more than adolescent, playground schoolboy puffery. Not even close. Apparently she often faked even the one. She now sees herself, not as a goddess that he treasured and respected, but rather as his sex slave, who he abused to fulfil his every perverted want. While they had been adventurous, the lift incident never happened. She now wonders if he was just using her to enact every sleazy fantasy he ever had. She is wondering if, maybe the lift thing would have been on his program for the trip cut short. (Ok, so now I can cross a lift sex scene off my list of triggers. Believe me, there are so many still left. I will never look at a mini bar the same again).

In an absolute rage, one of the hotel room damage events, WW said that the only reason that they had to do it multiple times was because he usually finished so quickly that it took multiple times for her to even feel arousal. She says she now remembers that after an event he would often sit back and look at her with a sort of gloating look. She now has a very disturbing insight into what he was doing in those instances. Hates herself and him even more.

The greatest rage and mirror smashing fit came when she told 2BF about her hearing him say on the recording that his life was F*cked up because she pursued him so aggressively. With the 20/20 clarity of hind sight she now says she sees how she was played. About 6 months after A2 began AP2 let on to her that he had known of A1 and how it had ended. He had explained that after A1 ended he had begun to get close to her and make sure that she had company for evening meals etc because he did not want her to feel any emptiness from the loss of the companionship of AP1. At the time he said this to her she thought to herself “what a gallant caring man.” Now she realised that after finding out about A1 he must have thought, “now there is an easy lay.” And she proved him right. She hates herself for that.

The ego boosting gets even better for me. Apparently she went on to tell 2BF that while she did enjoy the sexual diversity of the A, I was a better lover than either of them. While they could make sex interesting, she did not think that there was man on earth that knew how to make love like I did. To me that is real woman speak. Can’t fathom it but it sounds great and I will happily take it. I told BF that I did not understand it and she said WW described what it was like with me and that both her and other BF felt a tinge of envy. I’ll take that as well. I just hope word about that skill now gets around.

I have read a lot here about WW rewriting the marriage history. Do you think that WW is perhaps rewriting the A history and now wants to see it as being far less enjoyable than what it seemed at the time? When I get brave enough to post elsewhere I think that will be the first question that I post to WWs. I so want to believe that the A was as awful as she now sees it but I am certain that the experience was far more positive.

I wish I had 2 VARs. One for 2BF to record what WW is saying and then one for myself to record what they tell me. There was again much more last night but for the life of me I can’t remember it.

I have received 2 messages from WW today. One was “You have to know that you are the only man I have ever loved.” (Ok, so now I got what I wished for yesterday. Do you think she is reading my mind?). The other was “I know that your heart has always been only mine.” Did not have a bright, witty response to the first that so many of you seem to have in the “What was the dumbest thing that they said to you” thread, but was tempted to shoot back “so knowing that, you then though that it was ok to break, just because you owned it?”, to the 2nd, but in the end decided to ghost, as I am almost certain all of you would have recommended. I suppose this might be a half-hearted attempt at the “bombing” that is discussed in some of the posts.

WW has agreed that we meet at the hotel for dinner on Wednesday to discuss what we are going to say to the kids on Friday.

Had our “Truth, tears, tea and laughter” call again this afternoon. Had not spoken to OBS since last week Thursday. She had messaged me to let me know that DD had made it home on Thursday evening and that she would be taking Friday off work to support and be supported by DD and to go and see an attorney.

Apparently DD was devastated when OBS told her, let her read the mails and listen to the call recording. DD says that it was the most harrowing experience of her life. Felt like she was being sexually assaulted. Says she felt like discovering a porn movie in which her beloved dad was the lead male star. (I found it interesting that DD had used the porn video analogy after WW had used it yesterday). OBS had wanted to share the call with everyone that they told but DD begged that they limit the number of people that they let listen to it. She again made a porn movie analogy and said that every time she had to meet someone who had listened to the call she would feel like a kid in class where every child in the class had seen the porn video with your dad in the starring role. They agreed to restrict the listening of it to only family.

They went big time with exposure over the weekend. They had all parents and AP2s brother listen to the call. All were furious. The brother then asked that they play it to his wife. Apparently his wife has idolised AP2 her entire life. She keeps belittling her husband and saying how she married the wrong brother. He let her listen and then asked her if she still wanted to be married to that. Interesting outcome. AP2 had moved in with his brother and SIL when OBS threw him out. After listening; to the call SIL took all of AP2s stuff, dumped it on the lawn and locked him out of the house. (this is where the chuckle part of the call happened) His parents are so disappointed in him they refuse to let him stay with them, so he has had to move in with a friend.

OBS is a little envious of me. She saw an attorney on Friday and it sounds as if the D law there makes the process quite long and drawn out. She just wants to get on with building her new life.

DD had a job for the summer but has resigned to be able to support mom. DD made an interesting request to OBS. She has asked if the two of them could perhaps take a trip somewhere meaningful from the prior life as a family and have a little ceremony to remember and say goodbye to the loving husband and wonderful father that they once had. He is clearly dead and a monster has been born in his place. When we are further down the road I might ask my kids if they would like to do something similar.

Can’t wait to get through the traffic and get home to work on the Jazz again.

Oh, WW has just messaged the kids saying she hopes that they are having a wonderful time. Got back some glorious beach pictures.