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I am 1.5 yrs out from DD and I feel like my world is still scrambled. I am the shell of the man I used to be and at work, I see things in a blurry haze.

About a week ago, I noticed some sexy lingerie in her underwear drawer - it was open and available to see....I didn't go rifling into the drawer. This lingerie was stuff that I had never seen before. I brought it up with her and she said that she has had it for awhile and just never worn it. As a bit of background, my wife's A was COW from out of town on a few occasions when they were at a conference together. I recall going through our credit card statements and saw a charge for something from Victoria's Secret prior to their hookup. In her defense, she actually buys regular underwear and clothes from there.

Yesterday, she sends me a few links to some sexy lingerie to see what I would like and it was a HUGE trigger for me. I had drawn the logical conclusion that she purchased lingerie from VS for him before the hookup. The WW has probably only worn something sexy twice in our 16 years together.

When WW came home she asked me if I saw the email and I said yes. She asked what I thought about it and I said I didn't. I said what's the point. You have never worn this stuff in the past why would I care now.

Now, I admit that we don't talk a lot about the A or our issues as much as we should. 3 months after DD, her mother passed and it was a tragic event and she still cries daily about it. She is in IC and is definitely remorseful. She always asks me if I am ok - to the point of annoyance. Our communication is still not good. This turned into a larger communication that was both good and bad. I told her that she needs to be driving the train if she wants R. I told her that I am frankly ambivalent which is my own issue. She thinks that she is trying to be there for me and thinks she needs to do what I want. I was like hell no, if this is something you want, you need to show me that you want this. She told me that her A is something she thinks about every day and the guilt and shame and how she did this to me. She believes, from what she has read in all of the affair books (I should buy stock in them )that I should be the one driving the R train.

My ambivalence is tough. I have generally suffered in silence. Her plate is full and only I can fix myself. Unfortunately, there have been many setbacks. I ruptured three discs in my back which put me out of commission and in therapy for the better part of 9 months, her mother dying and my grandma dying since DD.

I told her that I feel like I lost all integrity. I always thought that this would be a dealbreaker and yet I stayed. We had issued NC to one of her friends who I found out post A was a boyfriend before we got married. She confided in this douchenozzle about the A and he encouraged it. He had reached out to her and she had read the message, but didn't respond. I caught it and questioned if he had reached out. She said absolutely not and would tell me if he did. I called that lie out straightaway. She then said she lied and shouldn't have, but wanted to save me from pain. Now, I had issued threats that if she ever lied or spoke to him, we were done. Yet, here I am....WTF???? Not following through on threats shows a lack of integrity. I am very outspoken and a straight shooter who prides himself on integrity. At the same time, I have avoided this conflict.

In our conversation, I told her that while we had problems in our marriage before the A, I still don't feel like we have a better M 1.5 yrs post DD. I told her that we have probably been so unhappy in our marriage that we don't know what a happy M is anymore. Our sex life has been less than mediocre because my W is frankly a prude and I have a much higher sex drive. For many years, I was lucky to get it once a month, I have always initiated. She has had some medical issues where it is painful, and I have always said that there are other ways to explore each other. She gets that intellectually, but it stops there. I also told her that I think we are both too afraid to be the one to pull the trigger on D.

I'm sorry for the ramble, but I guess I am looking for some insight into this mess.

ZMarley, I could have written that post. If you figure it out, let me know.

Hey, you're member 50,000!!! Congrats, I guess.

ZMarley, I think you have more company in your situation than you expect. You seem truly unhappy and I totally understand why. Maybe you should at least consult with a lawyer to see what D might look like financially. Perhaps the price you pay would be acceptable for a chance at happiness with someone else.

I don't think you've given R a chance (not that you have to give it a chance) because of all the other stresses you've been through since d-day. IMO, it's impossible for an M to get better without work, and you just haven't been able to do much work on your M. Besides, think 2-5 years, not 1.5 - and it will be longer for you, because you've had to deal with other sources of pain (loss of loved ones, blowout of your back).

R is still possible for you, if you want it. If you want R, you really need to talk with your W more, and you need to ask for what you want. If she agrees, great - you can R. If she doesn't, D sounds like the better choice for you.

But I think you're expecting too much for 1.5 years out - for example, my R went great from d-day on, and I was ambivalent about staying M into the 3rd year.

hey man, just wanted to say that I can relate to your situation. hang in there -

First thought- sit yourself down and think of where you want your life to really be in 5, 10, 15 years. Do you want it to be with your WW? In a remnant of a marriage?- which 99% of R marriages are. If you see yourself with her, then fine.

Second thought- After your soul searching, ask her the same question. Where does she see herself in 5 or 10 years and is it with you.

Third thought(s)- If both of you see yourselves together, then strong counseling is mandatory. If not, an amicable D is what you need.

Thanks so much for your replies folks. Just a few things...at this point I feel like crap continuing to bring this stuff up with her. I get the 2-5 years in this deal and that really, to me, seems like just the ability to repress it in some ways. I can't really remember what I ate for breakfast, but then I remember when I get heartburn around 11am I guess the A will be sort of the same way...it will be there, but it just won't be front and center. To be honest, I don't think 5 or even 10 years ahead. There are a lot of thoughts in my head about what it would be like to start a relationship at my age. I am far more mature and able to look at it different. That, in an of itself, is enticing. On the other hand, and I'm not going to lie, marriage has provided a certain quality of life and it is comfortable. I am the breadwinner, but man D $$ and not seeing my kid as often...that's killer. Is R really a choice? You keep on going and try to repair yourself and so long as she doesn't fuck another dude I'm good? She mentioned something last night which is really true, when we are talking, I don't look at her. Looking at her in the eyes is rough...I see her hurt and my hurt at the same time. I imagine D taking the pain away, but I don't that's true....

My head and heart are pretty screwed up right now and my addiction to SI may not be helping

You say your wife is a prude. Yet she sent you some links for lingerie that she claims she never wore. Maybe she is trying. Are you in IC (I didn't see it in your post) MC? Was pain the only reason she didn't want sex with you? What did she do when she was having sex with her AP? I'm willing to bet she wasn't too prudish with him. Anyway, good luck and I hope you find some peace.

I really think your W has introduced a lot of in consistencies int your M. These lie with her. She seems to want to be a Madonna with you and yet could be the opposite with her OM. Has she done any work to determine why she did it and more importantly why she would not do it again. Why can't she be herself around you and explore a new "personna," in the confines and safety of a committed partnership.

What consequences has she faced as a result of her choices ? Really think about this one. I am firm believer that we do need to see our WS suffer as much as we do or we won't ever be able to find empathy for them.

Is it possible that this is deal breaker for you ? For some of us there is a very real "renegotiation," of long held values that is required for us to every contemplate R. It is painful and feels like a betrayal to your self.

The lingerie trigger. Did you talk to her about and why it bothered you ? What was her reaction ?

Now, I admit that we don't talk a lot about the A

I think right here is the issue. The elephant is allowed to stay in the room, making everyone uncomfortable and not willing to show any vulnerability.

She believes, from what she has read in all of the affair books (I should buy stock in them )that I should be the one driving the R train.

I am calling BS on that. "Marriage" help books are ridiculous and often blame the BS and put the lions share of work on the BS. Of the two people in the same M why did only one of you cheat ? Never found a self help book that could address that. Too scare to lose 50% of their potential market. (Marriage Builders is notorious for teaching the BS to be a doormat. If she is reading that draw a boundary nd ask her to stop)

Last are you in IC ? When was the last time you saw your doctor. Chronic pain and depression are linked for physiological reasons. Pain management can make this worse.

I told her that I am frankly ambivalent which is my own issue

I think their is a lot of truth here and I think it means you don't want R, but you don't want to lose your lifestyle either. Feeling stuck with no way out is what is causing this turmoil you feel.

Are you sure you don't have options ? Everybody does, but you have to be strong enough to figure out what you really want and then take actions to that end.

Again I say IC to help you get on this path.

You say your wife is a prude. Yet she sent you some links for lingerie that she claims she never wore. Maybe she is trying. Are you in IC (I didn't see it in your post) MC? Was pain the only reason she didn't want sex with you? What did she do when she was having sex with her AP? I'm willing to bet she wasn't too prudish with him. Anyway, good luck and I hope you find some peace.

If you want her to be more open, you can't shut it down when she is, even if it feels less that authentic. Yes, it's hard, I'm dealing with the same thing; but you have to look at this as "trying" and take it as such. My WW is doing the same thing, and it does feel "off", but, at the same time, what's the other option? If you want her to be sexy with you, and she's being sexy, then you have to take it at face value. Yes, it might trigger you, but, at the same time, what else can she do?

Look at this as "she is trying".

I get you on this one. My WW bought some lingerie for her couple.

I think it got thrown away after D-Day but I'm not 100% sure because she has quite a bit. A few months ago I was trying to pick some out for her to put on and I saw some underwear that reminded me of the stuff she bought during the A....

In the garbage it went.

edit: I love the barfing face.

[This message edited by Northsider12 at 12:30 PM, June 16th (Friday)]

I really do appreciate the replies. I am not currently in IC - I was for a minute, but the IC screwed me over by scheduling sessions and then wasn't there for the scheduled time. She did that to me twice and I bailed. We were in MC for a long time, but I hated the MC. She was a specialist in infidelity, but she did some shit that really messed me up. First, the MC was really in group sessions with strangers. Shortly after DD I went to one with a different group and there was a fWH there and I nearly killed him. It was too early to hear his ass. Then she recommended a movie and the WW and I sat down to watch it and we got the Italian version which was an entirely different movie which was about a bunch of guys cheating on their wives. I let the MC have it for that one.....fired she was

What did she do when she was having sex with her AP?

She claims it wasn't full on sex. Just grinding and fingers if you get the drift. Sorry for the TMI. It kills me because she says she had a good time and enjoyed it.

I am calling BS on that. "Marriage" help books are ridiculous and often blame the BS and put the lions share of work on the BS. Of the two people in the same M why did only one of you cheat ? Never found a self help book that could address that. Too scare to lose 50% of their potential market. (Marriage Builders is notorious for teaching the BS to be a doormat. If she is reading that draw a boundary nd ask her to stop)

I agree with you, but she has read Not Just Friends, How to Help Your Spouse Heal and After the Affair. She got the How to Help you Spouse heal on her own and I see highlights and notes. I just don't think she "gets" it. I don't know that any WS really does and I don't really know what she needs to do to fix this. I honestly just don't know what would make this better.

She only bought the lingerie after I started asking questions. We did talk about it and I was initially open to her buying something "new" for us, but when she sent me the links, I started thinking about it and putting things together. Its weird when you haven't had a strong trigger in awhile and then one hits. Its like you start all over again.

Look at this as "she is trying".

I get that mentally, but I really feel as though I am checking out. Either she isn't doing enough or it was a dealbreaker for me.

Lately, she has been coming to bed at the same time as me (which was a problem before) and now she goes straight to sleep out of exhaustion so our sex life has been stagnant at best. Last night, I tried to initiate, but she was just too tired. She apologized this morning, but I am still a little put off. I have told her so many times that she needs to initiate. I guess maybe some women have trouble with that???

Its weird when you haven't had a strong trigger in awhile and then one hits.

My triggers are a little different, something may set it off, but it kind of a slow burn till you get to the point you realize something been bothering you, something just isn't right, and then you realize your mind has been preoccupied over this stuff a lot more than normal.

I believe that the 3 - 5 year thing applies only to when both WW and BH are giving R their all. Like WW is doing everything she can to repair the damage she's done and willing to do anything to make it up to BH. Of course, BH must be willing to accept that his WW is remorseful and that acceptance, if not forgiveness, is something that he can visualize if things keep moving in this direction. BH's often get frustrated at this point because he feel they both are doing everything right but he still triggers and feels anger and hurt about her affair from time to time. We advise to keep up the effort and tell them about the 3 - 5 year thing and, hopefully, they are comforted enough to keep trying.

When WW is acting like yours, the 3 - 5 thing is out the window. She is NOT willing to do anything to make this up to you. She is NOT working to help you heal. In your case, healing for you is not likely to ever happen.

Things have to change or you need to accept the fact that you will remain unhappily married. Reconciliation is hard, painful, and it takes a long time under the best of circumstances. This doesn't sound like your current situation after a year and a half of painful effort.

[This message edited by anoka at 4:16 PM, June 16th (Friday)]

I completely understand your triggers.!you wish it didn't do it but yet it does. Really doesn't have to make sense. I think it's knowing they went out of their way to do something special or different for the AP yet you, the one who has been through the good the bad and the ugly is just chopped liver. My H & I have always had issues over non matching sex drives too. It is hurtful when your own spouse rejects you and doesn't care about your needs or wants. But a million x worse when they are like that but then spontaneous and sexual w someone else.

The lingerie... it does sound like maybe she is trying to spice Things up for you. I do get the anger though too. But maybe just try it and go along w it. Or better yet pick something yourself and buy it for her. Get a hotel away and have a wild free night?

Wow, ZMarley and Twisted.

You both could be writing my story.

Thanks to everyone that has replied. I thought of starting a new post, but this is sort of tied to it. My WW recently went to a required training at work. Unfortunately, it was in the same state as her AP which was a HUGE trigger. WW recognized that and was very conscious in trying to alleviate any fears. We talked every day and she let me know every time she wasn't in her room. At one point we did a FaceTime call with DS included and he asked to see all of the room. He wanted to see everything....you would've thought that I put him up to it LOL. However, I took a peek in her underwear drawer and noticed that the sexy lingerie was missing. I freaked out and said something to her. She said she threw it away and I am sure she did, but the timing was really bad. I must say that I have been rather stoic lately. All of this infidelity stuff really burns. However, while she was gone, DS and I had a blast. Life was really good.

When WW came home, we talked about it and I was digging...like why did you throw it away if it was not used with AP? Her response was that it was a trigger, she recognized it and then trashed it because she didn't want it to be a problem. If its a problem, then get rid of it. I guess that shows good logic, but the timing messed me up a bit.

Then my parents came to town for the holiday. A little backstory here is important...

MIL was diagnosed with ALS about a year prior to A. Things got really bad. She had A and I found out on Oct 1, 2015. MIL died Jan 1, 2016. It's been a rough road.

Well, WW went to hairdresser - she has been going to this lady for over 20 yrs and I have met her once. Hairdresser is semi-retired and only sees a few clients in her home. My folks came in on that Friday and I get a frantic call on my wife's cell from hairdresser that WW has broken down and things are really bad. So, I leave DS with my parents and leave for hairdresser's house. I get there and apparently WW broke down. Lately, WW has noticed some of her hair falling out, grieving mom and our issues somehow came out at the hairdresser's and WW broke down really bad. When I get there, WW is in tears and very sad. Hairdresser is telling me that she was going to call an ambulance because WW was very upset and WW talked her out of calling the ambulance. I am sort of in shock and trying to figure out what is going on. WW has also had a bit of a health scare because she had her blood drawn and her calcium is way too high which could mean cancer. At any rate, hairdresser is saying that we need help and WW hasn't grieved her mother's death and we need to get help. Hairdresser is like I really love WW and I am really close to her and blah blah blah. I'm like, I don't know you, STFU and let me talk to my wife. WW asks hairdresser to give us a few moments and we talk it out. WW just had a bit of an emotional fallout over all the stress. We talk and eventually hairdresser comes back in and finishes. At one point I walked out to move my vehicle from their driveway bc hairdresser's husband needed to get out and I was blocking him in. It was late at this point and he had a job he had to run out to. He is an HVAC guy so someone's AC must have run out. I immediately wondered if he had an AP for some reason.....

I stayed awhile and then hairdresser finished and I followed WW home to make sure she was ok to drive.

WW and I talked about it a bit and she said that hairdresser knows that we are having problems and it was WW's fault. I'm not sure how many details were included, but I think it is good she is talking to someone about this other than me and her IC. WW discloses that hairdresser is a BS. She says that her husband said that the only way to get through it was for hairdresser to forget it, move on and start fresh. Nothing like a rugsweep..... I told WW that this was not going to happen for us. We need to process this and figure this out before we can move forward.

Sorry for the long post, I guess I am looking for some insight....was this a good thing or a bad thing? IMO, I think it was sort of good, although I don't like people I don't know knowing my business. I didn't get a good vibe on hairdresser, but maybe I am being a little oversensitive when hairdresser was just trying to dispense advice albeit bad advice. WW has been very attentive and says she feels like she is walking on eggshells. I will admit that I haven't been the most empathetic with her grieving for her mom....I think I am depressed too...sometimes I wonder if my lack of empathy is some kind of autism on my part - it must be highly functioning

I guess I am trying to process this whole experience and any thoughts or insights would be appreciated.

Z,

The only advice I can tell you is to keep talking.

Most likely you will never find the answers you are looking for, the big "why" or "how could you", even if she can get them out they just won't make logical sense.

Adam couldn't make sense of Eve, and it hasn't improved since then. People are fallible. They give their most precious feelings and emotions to strangers instead of their spouses. Maybe it's because of childhood issues, or need for attention, watching too many soap operas, or just boredom. I swear some people aren't content unless they have chaos in their lives. Just when everything is running smooth and on track, they are compelled to screw it up just for the drama and attention.

Continue to talk, you are fortunate that your WW is willing and seems committed to the marriage. She has to fix herself but you can play objective counselor and keep throwing questions and challenges at her. The more she examines what happened, the less chance there is to repeat it.

She needs to turn that need of validation inward toward the marriage.

My issue was one of resentment, it took years. I've figured it out that I have to trust her if I can ever expect her to open up to me like it should have been in the first place. That's very hard to do once you've been conned your whole marriage.

double post

[This message edited by twisted at 4:39 PM, July 5th (Wednesday)]

Please do not by any means take this as a criticism because what happened to you is not fair or right by any measure. I just want to help if I can in any way.

If what your wife likes and enjoys out of sex is what she was doing with that other guy, you may have to meet her there if you want her to enjoy sex with you. You're by no means OBLIGATED to make her like it but based on your post I THINK you would prefer it a lot if she did. I don't know all your history but if I were you, for my own sake, I would go on a mission to try a whole lot of things and figure out which of them my wife finds most exciting and then do that a LOT. I would tell her I want her to feel better being with me than with that guy and she needs to explain to me what's good and what's uncomfortable. Then make her relax and take your time. A lot of time. Anything he can do YOU can do and it could be really good for your self-esteem in the wreckage of her affair.

Hope you're doing okay, and all the best to you!