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I have been needing to move on up here to the next level for a while now...so here I am. DDAY-4/30/17 and still numb. It's been a rocky ride the last 3 weeks going from discovery and heart broken and now into the thick of things with the D. On DDAY after my confrontation it was a mutual agreement that she was leaving our house. This happened right in front of our 21yr old son and our 16yr old daughter( not my choice). When WW left she said something to me and my sobbing kids that will stick with us forever "You will will be fine... people do this all the time" Jesus! really? R was NEVER on the table for me.We wasted no time getting the papers in order and filing. WW made it clear she did not want to involve attorneys and keep it amicable and civil, I agreed. Well one of the first things I knew I had to do was put a value on our assets and debts and get to a 50/50 number. Easy right?

I immediately ordered an appraisal on our home and should have it this week. I also have a few classic cars which are very subjective in value. We own some land and I have construction equipment. I have told WW (NC except email) that since she is basically the plaintiff in a civil suit it is up to her to put a number and method to her complaint. Today she did that in a random way. WW put numbers on the house, the lots, two cars and two pieces of the equipment. WW is CRAZY high on the values. WW must have used some sort of search engine to generate the values and that's expected but this is where WW has no clue on these matters. WW was never involved in my business or hobbies and wouldn't know the difference between a backhoe and a Camaro.

This is a starting point as I instructed her to come up with but WOW! I'm hoping that after some concise details and supporting documentation on my part we can get a handle on this stuff. b/t/w I didn't tell her I got an appraisal yet b/c I wanted to see where her numbers come in. Since I build homes in our area including ours( which I am going to try and refinance) I have a very good idea where the appraisal will come in and I think WW is off by at least 60k. The house is the big one here especially since it's paid off thanks to my devotion to paying it down so our future would be debt free and we were going to sell some day and downsize to enjoy the tax break from our primary res.

Those dreams along with all the others are now just that... dreams. God how I hate her for what she has done to this family. There are of course many other aspects to the financial puzzle like retirement accounts, money in banks but that stuff is pretty cut and dry. This process in our state gives us the opportunity to try to reach a settlement on our own and then go before the courts and have it stamped. It first appears to be relatively straight forward and would be as long as each party is willing to compromise along the way. WW has already exposed a few glimpses of what is to come. I will hang in there to try and get this done but I warned WW that we will more than likely get one shot at this and if it fails it's retainer time for me.

I'm not sure how many people here have gone this route and would be interested in hearing your take. WW is not stupid but this is just not her field of expertise. I on the other hand have a long background in negotiating with clients, realtors, contractors etc but it's done with people willing to compromise too. I hope WW can see that and put the "big girl" pants on and get with it b/c I want this Shit behind me ASAP

Welcome, yenko. I'm sorry you find yourself here in the D forum, but this is a great group of people who will support you every step of the way.

My D was somewhat similar to your current process. We did it ourselves as an uncontested D (dissolution) as he was willing to be civil. I had consulted an attorney before proceeding to at least educate myself on what I could realistically expect in my state if it did become a contested situation.

I drove the train with the settlement process because I knew if I left it to Xhole he wouldn't. It is not because he is stupid, just incredibly lazy. I also KNEW he would value everything on the high side. So to preempt that I did my homework and researched the hell out of every asset of significance (we had a lot of recreational toys and firearms). The key is to provide Craigslist values, if you will, for the "stuff" versus retail value (i.e., garage sale values). I printed multiple listings of items as close as I could find to matching to support my values as well as KBB values for vehicles. And there is another site (which is a paid site, but worth it) where I could get firearm values. I also had an appraisal done on our home, which was worth its weight in gold as he WAS trying to value it much higher (as I suspected he would).

So I came loaded for war with all my documentation ready to support the valuations I listed in our proposed settlement. After a few back and forth volleys he finally just gave in. Mostly because he was still in his feeling guilty phase. I jumped on that and milked it for all it was worth because the asshole side of his personality was not something I really wanted to deal with (and it would have required lawyering up).

I was also more knowledgeable about how D played out in our state versus xhole, even though he is law enforcement (different legal aspect entirely). That played heavily in my favor and empowered me that much more. Ultimately, since he agreed to everything, we had a rubber stamp hearing (a whopping 15 minutes before a magistrate) and it was done. I was prepared for him to question the asset values in the court hearing, but he never did. Thankfully. He was too wrapped up in his new instafamily with the last OW to give it too much attention (though I found out later OW was bitching at him for "giving in too easily").

It is an emotionally draining process, but you will be glad you are putting forth the effort in the long run. Hopefully she will stay amicable for you.

When you are all done you can then join is in the New Beginnings forum as well. We have a lot of fun in there too sharing stories and experiences. Just know that no matter how much this sucks right now, and it sucks with a capital S, there is light and life on the other side.

You've got this, yenko, and we're here for you!

[This message edited by Phoenix1 at 7:06 PM, May 23rd (Tuesday)]

Phoenix1,

Just what I was looking for... THANK YOU! You summed it pretty good for me. I too have been diligent from day one seeking info and documentation on our asstes. WW has a dark side as well and I prefer not to awaken it by badgering her. WW may be one of those who will tire after a few go-arounds too, I hope. This has been draining especially trying to keep a civil behavior toward WW and still dealing with the emotional aspects. I did make it perfectly clear from the start NC except email. WW has at least adhered to that. Patience has always been one of my virtues which by the way bothered her??? go figure. I didn't mention in my topic post that I had visited with two separate attorneys within days after DDAY. I gained some useful knowledge and like you wanted to see where the full blown D would take me. WW is aware I visited them but was very concerned I might just sign up.

I read a post somewhere in SI recently that suggested a WS who encourages a self dissolution of marriage is trying to take advantage of the other and has something to hide. It sounds plausible given the fact that she is a cheating, lying POS. I will definitely be watching my back. Until I sign the settlement WW can't enforce a thing anyway. b/t/w in lieu of an attorney I have hired a free lance paralegal who specializes in divorce. This attracted me because she not only can help prepare all documents etc but she also can give me advice and guidance. I actually hired one years ago to help me in a business transaction and it went well. She charges $35hr and thinks it will take 15hrs. This method is perfect b/c I do not have to inform the WW as with an attorney. WW is employed in the legal system. She not only has an upper hand in procedure but I'm sure has been coached well. Not to mention she has had over a year to prepare for this day (length of A I discovered)

I really don't know what I would have done without the support of this site and courageous and compassionate people like you. I hope things are going well for you.

Welcome, yenko. I'm sorry you married someone who forced you to find SI, but I'm so happy for you that you moved to the D forum so quickly. It will save you untold heartache and help you move on to happy more quickly!

You have an advantage on timing in that she may feel some guilt and be more likely to settle. My WXH and I were able to sort everything out without lawyers (each of us had seen attorneys to understand what is standard in our state.) I could have fought for more, but can support myself and just wanted to move on, heal, and start living my new life. Best thing I did!

You will get through this, and in a few years won't believe how much better life is and how much happier you are. There definitely are bumps along the road, but at this point (I'm 5 years out) they are hard to remember.

Good luck!

phmh,

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I do feel strong during most of this and my devotion to handling this in a quick manner stems from me being the "go to guy for my family" I'm the one who fixes everything who likes to get things done. That attribute is serving me well throughout this crap but man is it hard sometimes. My 16yr old daughter is staying here with me and feels safe and secure in her home. That is what keeps me going. We shop together, prepare meals together as we have done for many years.

The WW is trying to get her hooks into her and that has been another issue. I warned WW in an email to not try forming an alliance with my daughter that it will backfire on her. My 21yr old son is here as well from college and they get along great together... always have. He refuses to speak to WW and that I'm sure is bothering her or maybe not? The kids understand what's going on but not the behind the scene issues. They occasionally ask a question or two but that's about it. My son has mentioned to me that he's afraid WW is out to destroy me and this household. He is old enough to form an opinion and I'm not one to interfere.

My thought on the timing thing is that I don't think she has ANY remorse for what she has done, zero. She has NEVER shown any empathy or compassion toward me or my kids during all of this.

Who are these F-----g people who do this to us?

We must be long lost cousins or something. My D Day was May 3 and I received the divorce draft from my attorney this afternoon and I believe we'll be signing the papers tomorrow. Ours was pretty easy to do because we're retired and on fixed incomes and we downsized so much before moving to FLA that there really isn't anything that needs to have a value placed on it. But I got an attorney anyway (he's not getting one) and while I hate to spend the money, I wanted to make sure everything was written up in the proper legal terminology so there are no ugly surprises down the road. So your idea to use the paralegal is a good one. I'd have gone that route if I'd read your post in time. :)

I am still beyond distraught but once the papers are signed and we get past Saturday (would have been our 45th Anniversary), I think I'll be able to begin healing. I'm usually the strong stoic one but not where this is all concerned. I break down sobbing in the weirdest places, including the poor guy taking my BP at my (routine) doc appt. this afternoon. He was so sweet to me afterwards, although that might have been partly because my BP was way higher than normal.

Anyway, I wish you peace and serenity to get through this. It's not easy and I know I'm going to have a very rough road ahead so thank heavens for SI!

My youngest kid was 16 at the time and also living with me (older two already out of the house). DD wanted nothing to do with her father (still doesn't). She specifically asked me at the time to make sure I had sole physical and legal custody of her as she didn't want him to have any say in her life. I also wrote into the decree that all visitation would be at DD's discretion (i.e., no visitation schedule) and xhole would pay all expenses (he was living in another state at the time). DD was greatly relieved xhole didn't fight it, and she never visited him. Something for you to think about.

The paralegal route is a good idea. I didn't need it here as our courts provide a wealth of DIY forms/information. It was literally a fill-in-the-blank packet, so pretty hard to mess it up. The magistrate just reviewed to make sure it was "equitable" and that was it. Questioned me getting the marital home and all equity, until he saw the offset with xhole getting the firearms and recreational toys. That is why those valuations were so critical to document. And magistrate didn't bat an eye at the custody/visitation agreement because of her age.

Hiya Yenko-

When I came to this forum, it seemed like all the cook kids were here. And look at that, we still are. :-)

I'm sorry you are here. At least for me, it was good knowing what direction I was heading in. Sounds like you've got your ducks in a row and quacking in unison.

It might be worth it to consult a lawyer if you can get one of those free initial consults. You sound savvy- you know that he or she will try to sell himself/herself to you, but you might get some good insight out of it.

And civil might not last. If it does, great. (mind stayed civil and many do)- but if not, it's good to have someone in your corner.

We're with you.

josiep,

We could very well be cousins, I have a huge family on my side spread throughout the country. Thank you for the kind words and I hope you are taking care of yourself. I'm glad to hear your D is going smoothly as possible. My 24th anniversary is coming up in 3 months. You will heal, we all will. Will I ever get over it? to some degree no I won't but I am willing to accept that. The diversity of emotions are all over the place with me. I am the strong but compassionate type and I have found myself in a breakdown of sorts in some weird places too. The last few days it's been anger, not rage anger, just so GD mad at her. Today and right at this moment I just miss my wife and I feel lonely. I haven't really felt that so much yet. Last night I was pissed and before bed I sat here and typed a three page letter that some day I will send to the WW. It's nasty and full of hate but I had to get it out. I will probably never send it b/c I'm just not like that.

Please take care and thank you.

Phoenix1,

My DD was furious with her mother that day and would have nothing to do with her. Since then WW has had many contacts by phone/text and my DD has met her for lunch/dinner and also on mothers day. I see a more accepting tone with my DD and I have mixed feelings on that. When she returns home from meeting her she seems more reserved. I don't ask how WW is or how it went just how she's doing herself. It's hard for my DD I know but I just can't stand her with my DD she's not a good mother anymore, how can she ever be again! I believe WW needs this relationship with our DD and that's ok but a little at a time.

WW already sent me her parenting outline for our DD. It's not exactly what I want to see but it's just a draft. I wished like Hell my WW was in another state and lost her drivers license, passport and credit card so she could never visit. I like your stipulation about the DD gets to decide completely with me as sole custody as well. I have made it clear that our DD wants to remain here with me but I know what's coming down the road with WW over this one. She will make me out to be the villain to get DD on her side. My ace in the hole is that DD Loves the guts out of me and I make her feel safe. She also has been hurt severely by her mothers betrayal. I want my DD here with me and just visit WW as she feels the need. I'm not sure how I can force that issue yet but if I have to I will. From what I have read, the courts would most likely want to see her remain here with me since this is near school, friends and she grew up here and it's her house. I also read that at her age (17 in 9 days) they may just ask her what she wants. Either way the scats going to hit the fan I'm afraid. I'm glad your situation is behind you and I can't wait till mine is too.

Thanks for taking the time to help.

Minnesota,

Thanks for the heads up. I do have an attorney in the wings waiting for the call if need be. I can see this thing going south in a hurry if the WW exposes her dark narcissistic innerds. They're there.. I've seen em.. Love your attitude! I had one like that. Ill get it back some day

Thanks

In many states the age at which kids can "voice" their desires is 13-14. That doesn't mean a judge will give them what they want, but there usually must be a compelling reason for them not to. At almost 17 your DD can, and should, make the decision. Visitation should not be forced on her or she could become resentful. Why not approach your WW with the idea of, "Hey, DD is almost an adult so let's let her decide how she wants to set this up." That is not an antagonistic approach and puts the decision rightfully where it belongs, with your DD. You can always let DD know that a viable option is to leave it at her discretion, if she feels more comfortable with being in control of the situation. If you don't mention it, she may not realize it is even an option.

You can also print out your state‘s statute(s) regarding the age of voicing choice with kids so you can show your WW to demonstrate you are just trying to treat DD the way the court would.

Bottom line, ask your DD, and treat her like the young almost adult that she is! My DD expressed appreciation repeatedly for not being treated like a little kid. Give yours the same gift.

Phoenix1,

I have discussed that scenario with my DD and explained that it is pretty much up to her. She has made it clear she wants to reside here with me and visit WW when she feels like it. She has a car and a p.t. job so she's very independent. The WW is trying to impose strict visitation schedules into the agreement. WW's approach is geared more toward a 6 yr old. I don't think my DD will favor such controlling demands. I am confident my DD will make the right choice when given the opportunity.

Thanks so much for your advice. That's exactly why I'm here

(((yank))) wow what a reality whiplash. I'm so sorry.

The fallout from infidelity and the divorce are a journey and right now you are rightly focussed on the practicalities. But I'm going to caution you that this is far from resolved for you. This will take a long time for the rubble to settle and you will find yourself grieving at odd times in odd places for a long time.

It is perfectly normal for your DD to be angry with her mother but kids need to have both parents in their lives (if at all possible, and sometimes it most certainly is not in the instances of ultra NPD and abusive parents) and though she may be angry with her mother, she'll still need her as well. Please don't set up a competition and offload your own anger and pain onto her--she'll have enough of her own to contend with. If you can persuade her to see a therapist to try and grapple with her conflicting emotions, that will help her so much in the long run to process and resolve her feelings.

I also urge you to see a therapist as well. Because one "this shit" is behind you and the dust has settled, you will be left with the reality of what has happened and it really does help to talk it through.

Hang in there. It gets better but it might get a whole lot worse before it does.

I also have a few classic cars which are very subjective in value.

OMG! Do you have a Yenko Camaro\Chevelle\Nova?

I am not divorced but strongly considering it. After years of R, I am of the opinion that D is the best option after an A. True R is as rare as a 69 Yenko SC427 Nova Like others have said, you're saving yourself untold amounts of grief and heartache by divorcing.

I would definitely consult an attorney after you have forged an agreement with your WW.

stayedforthekids,

I wished I owned a "Yenko" of course if I did it wouldn't be for long. I do have a 69Z...or should I say I used too. It is on the list of assets and subject to sale like everything else I own of value. I really need the money from these items to pay her off so I can afford to refi my house. There just material things I know and can be replaced but it still hurts. The "Z" has been with me since my senior year of High school and that's going to be a tough one for me personally. Even though the assets you owned prior to the marriage are off the table, the appreciation of those items are part of the joint assets. WW sent over a few preliminary numbers on some of the large assets and she is way off on most including the Z. WW could have cared less about the cars before this, now she's a f-----g expert. I knew I shouldn't have watched Barret Jackson with her :)

Yes for me the D was a no brainer. There's no way in Hell I could see myself trying to live with that lying Bitch for the rest of my life. I would be looking over her shoulder wondering??? It's hard and it's painful but I do believe it has to be the way to go for my future.

thanks for caring!

I can only offer one thing since stbxwh ruined us financially so there's no assets. The first one to offer a number in ANY negotiations loses. That's just how it works. Someone told me that a long time ago and it's always been my hard fast rule. I have found it to be true. It's a lot like tic tac toe when you get the center square. So...

Yay you!

Smokenfire,

I hope your assumption on the tic tac toe is right. That's why I stressed the fact with her to give me a number first since she is the moving party in this civil dispute. WW was reluctant to start the negotiations, my guess she is being coached from coworkers. Throughout my marriage I was always very generous with my time my heart and my money. I would give anything to her or the kids no matter what it was they needed. Now look how she has turned on this family. She could care less about our feelings or our financial future. You know money has never been the drive for me, sure I want our family to have our needs met but it was more than that it is the fact I love what I do so it was natural and pretty easy for me to make money. Now look where it got me. WW couldn't have done it at a better time for her, home prices are through the roof here and some how I think she knew that.

WW made a point in the latest email that she will be entitled to continue the same lifestyle she had become accustomed to????really? What about the three of us back here in the rubble heap, the scorched earth? Wholly crap what is with these so called loved ones?

WW made a point in the latest email that she will be entitled to continue the same lifestyle she had become accustomed to?

Be in hyper vigilant mode now. This could be a sign that she is going to make this ugly for you, especially with such an entitled attitude. We see D bring out the worst in people all the time here so shields up!

Aside from that, ignore her jackass braying. What she thinks she is entitled to and reality will be vastly different. Just don't give her a penny more than what she is legally entitled to. Your valuation effort is going to be critical if she is going to play hardball.

Stay the course, yenko.

Thanks Phoenix1, I'm not completely naïve when it it comes to the law in regards to D,, but this just doesn't seem right. I have built our last 4 homes we have lived in including our current home and I know we were married at the time but I made many sacrifices to get us where we are today. I never asked for anything in return from anyone. The lifestyle WW is referring to was made possible for the most part by me. Now she took a crap right in the middle of our lives and expects half of our wealth along with my heart and soul.

This sounds more like a rant...sorry.

I will have shields up and watching her every move. I spoke with my paralegal today to confirm tomorrow's meeting and I ran a few Qs by her in reference to WW comments, she said don't worry she's heard it all. I just read a post here and it was a D about to go nuclear ,God I hope this doesn't go there but I am prepared if it does.

I received my house appraisal today and it is definitely in my favor. (WW is not aware of it). WW will squeal when she see's it b/c in an email from her this week she said she had a realtor perform a market analysis that comes in $100k more than my appraisal. All Realtors want to give you that high first number to get your listing b/c they're under the impression you want to sell. At my meeting tomorrow with my paralegal I was going to ask her when I should disclose it. I don't want to reveal it until we settle on the split % of the assets b/c I think the value is just an arbitrary number at this point. I'm going to get all assets / debt calculated and how we divide them and after a mutual agreement then I would reveal the appraisal. I suppose her only action would be to order her own at a fee of $750. I'm certain the mediator would suggest to her to just use the one I paid for.

My purpose for this method is to get her to agree on a percentage of everything up front b/c she is counting on a huge windfall from the house. I'm thinking maybe she wont be so aggressive with some of the other items. This plan can only work if she doesn't want to start all over again after seeing the appraisal. My guess is that after 2-3 hours of negotiations and a firm push from the mediator she will settle. Each of the two attorneys I interviewed earlier told me the appraisal trumps all other forms of valuation in this matter. I will find out in 2 weeks.