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yankees99, earlier 5454real touched on the issue at hand, which is her full ownership and accountability for her affair. Right now, she is negotiating away as much consequences as she can:

She'll quit her job, but don't tell her family that she went and lived with that A-hole for a week.

She'll let you sleep with another woman, but only who she picks AND she nust to be present to control the situation. Yes, if you have sex with this other woman your WW thinks this will nullify her consequence of extramarital sex. Your story isn't the only here where the wayward offered a hall pass or a three way to "even things up".

At first when you filed and served her she said she wouldn't sign it, but she's also wouldn't quit the OM. That is until you started showing her that you were serious.

There are more examples, but the point is that a person who is remorseful doesnt "negotiate" or seek leverage with the person that was hurt. The common motivation for waywards after Dday is self preservation, which is the complete opposite of remorse. In fact, it underlines "regret" instead and a need to rug sweep. If you want to get her on the right track in her efforts to R, tell her it starts with owning her shit in full and seeking IC with a qualified infidelity therapist to help guide her self work and figuring out her "why". You should invest in some IC as well to help you cope with the change given the the marriage has been blown up and your reality has been altered like none other. You should also invite your kids to do the same. All this BEFORE any MC because if both people are not fully commited to R then it is a waste of time and money.

Just tell her that if she wants to starts making "right by you" (because that is her thinking at the moment in trying to fix this) then she needs to start by taking full responsibilty for the affair.

If you want to get her on the right track in her efforts to R, tell her it starts with owning her shit in full and seeking IC with a qualified infidelity therapist to help guide her self work and figuring out her "why". You should invest in some IC as well to help you cope with the change given the the marriage has been blown up and your reality has been altered like none other. You should also invite your kids to do the same. All this BEFORE any MC because if both people are not fully commited to R then it is a waste of time and money.

Just tell her that if she wants to starts making "right by you" (because that is her thinking at the moment in trying to fix this) then she needs to start by taking full responsibilty for the affair.

This^^^ is spot on. She is still trying to control the situation. And you are swirling around her even though you just served her D papers, it is quite understandable that she is making you quite crazy and you cannot see clearly.

Keep talking about filing for a D, remember it does not ultimately MEAN you will be divorced some day, it is only the very beginning, but my own personal opinion is that you will never feel a sense of "rightness" if you allow her to keep setting the rules of how she thinks you should heal after she just smashed your world upside the head. Its totally illogical and very much Wayward thinking, they do something totally horrible that has destroyed your world and then continue to pile on the disrespect with the blame game, defensiveness, controlling what you should and should not do and never turning around and looking at themselves and seeing what a shitty person they are.

Stay the course, don't let her sway you. Tell her if she gets into IC for herself and does it for at least 6 months faithfully then you "might" consider attempting a conversation about R, but by that time you also may be in a different place emotionally and won't even want anything to do with her by that time. That is why I am saying you can still keep the filing of the D going and give yourself time to see even how your going to feel in another 6 months.

Listen you might all of a sudden have a crystal clear moment where you just say "screw this whole thing" and then you will be so sorry that you stopped the process.

I myself started it by seeing an attorney and getting the paperwork and then stopped it.....I so wish now in hindsight that I would have stood my ground.

Well I'm confused.

I dread going home.

I don't know what I even want.

Most of the time I find myself just upset or angry and don't want to look at her.

yankee99,

It's was only a little over a month ago that you've learned about your WW's affair, so it is perfectly natural that you are still on the emotional roller coaster and undecided about what to do.

I think you know that you should not make any decisions about your marriage until you have your emotions better under control. Getting some time to yourself, and away from your WW's entreaties, might help you see things less emotionally and more rationally. A lot of guys in your situation have found it beneficial to get away.

Could you take a week's vacation and go visit friends or family in another city, or even take a long weekend and go camping?

I have thought about going away for some time. I told her I'm going to take a trip by myself. She thinks I'm going to run away from her or something like that. Thinks I'm taking another women with me. She is ridiculous. I told her all she's trying to do is justify this affair in her mind and she needs to go see a professional because she's not all there mentally. She has one more day at the office and then she's gone from that job.

I actually wish a woman would join me on this trip. I rather take a trip with any other woman over my wife right now. I feel like she has not taken full responsibility for the affair. I don't see part responsibility as any responsibility at all. I also did inform her family that the affair was sexual, no matter what lie she told them.

When she started to get mad about the vacation, I told her to shut the fuck up. It felt good. I don't need her. I may be 45 and older now but I am still in shape. Although she has been pleasant for most of our life together, I am sick of this new her. This new self-centered obsessed with her looks shallow whore. I told her all of this.

Hit a nerve, she called me an asshole, a dick, and a neglectful bastard and she is sorry for the affair but she will not tolerate me calling her hurtful names. I told her I refuse to apologize, but told her I'm leaving her without hesitation the next time she calls me neglectful. I never neglected her, I used to do so much extra stuff for her that I didn't have to do and that's the mistake I made.

I got angry, emotional. Told her I didn't love her anymore and this new her disgusts me. She is not the woman that I used to know. Just sick of this whole fiasco. Maybe I should just leave her. I really don't know what's stopping me anymore. Just preservation to save the marriage and all of our good memories I guess (which are a ton). Sick of her mood changes, I don't know if she is having a midlife crisis or what. She also threw out all her makeup. Told me looking for good for anyone else does not matter to her anymore and she doesn't care. Okay that was weird I guess.

[This message edited by yankees99 at 10:46 PM, March 29th (Wednesday)]

Good memories are nice. Being in a position to make new ones is even better

Yankees99, I don't want to sound harsh or seem to be coming over as offensive to you, so please forgive me if you think so, but methinks the worm has finally turned, you got there in the end.

All I can say is well done, it's about time you got brave/mad enough (if that's the right word) and told her and the family the truth and how much she hurt you, and what your feelings are right now, saying what she did, not you, to the marriage, it's all down to her, she chose to have the affair instead of talking to you first, she has never shown any true remorse, or told her family the truth, you may even be feeling sorry for having said it, it's only natural for you to feel this way as you are at the end of the day a genuinely good person and a loving father, if you do feel this, then just remember it was her who wanted/suggested to include another woman into the marriage (her excuse for you, my arse it was) it was her way of rug sweeping the affair and gaining control back over you again, the control she could see was slipping away as you becoming the more the Alfa one by fighting back, and she does not want that happening, so take your solo break, then you can work out in your own mind on your own what you want to do for you, not her or the family, it's the key to you sorting this mess out, for your future happiness, when you return with your mind sorted out, put those plans into action whatever they may be, don't stress too much about how the kids will feel, they are old enough now to sort out their own lives/feelings and how they want to handle this.

You can do this Yankees99, rooting for you Y99

Regards BJE49

Yankees99, forgot to mention, when on your solo break, whatever you do don't look for other women to have sex with, even if one offers it to you on a plate, it will only confuse the situation and 2 wrongs don't make a right, by all means be friendly nothing wrong in that, but keep lust at bay.

Regards BJE49

The rawness of the words expresses the rawness of the emotions that prompted them. It sounds like the initial shock of your wife’s actions is clearing, and your feelings are starting to coalesce. I don’t think anyone here would be surprised by how you feel.

I can’t help thinking that if you did live up (down?) to the names your wife called you, and that you had been neglectful in the past, she would have called time on the marriage years ago and left. The fact that she didn’t, and that she didn’t make you aware of your alleged neglect, would indicate a new sense of entitlement that she didn’t have in the past. You have said that she seems like a different person now. That change would certainly explain her recent behaviour, and also serve to justify it in her mind now.

A mid-life crisis would definitely fit the bill. It’s a shame, but it’s something that your wife needs to figure out for herself. Where does she think she’s going with all this? It’s not a new direction in life, it’s a blind alley. She has hurt and alienated you, alienated her daughters, damaged her marriage, and for what? What’s the pay-off? She really needs counselling, and probably a lot of it.

You have a lot to consider about whether or not the two of you are still good for one another, or if a parting of the ways would free both of you up to be the people that you are now, rather than the people you once were. That is why a break by yourself would do you a power of good. You need time out to consider what you want for the next part of your life. It is great that you have so many happy memories of the way things were. Whatever may happen in the future, those years and those memories cannot be taken away. Put them in a mental treasure chest, lock it, throw away the key, and do not let them be sullied or soured by recent events.

The future will be whatever you choose to make it, and you should make sure it is good for you. Figuring out what that looks like is what you need to focus on now, and that needs a clear head, away from domestic arguments.

Is either of you seeking any professional help?

IC or MC?

You said your wife has a lot of insecurities, therefore breast implants, yoga, etc.

She judges you through her vision of the world. She is obsessed with being cheated on, and even offered threesome as alternative where she can control the situation. I think she is still so much self centered and all her thoughts is about her fragile ego that you can shatter into pieces by discarding her. That would be unbearable, as she created a sense of grandiosity around herself, that no man leaves her, she can play him, etc.

Threesome, hysterics, accusing of cheating is all out of fear that you can destroy her wonderful fantasy world where she is powerful, desirable and super hot. A trained hubby who is ready to jump at her every whim, or at least who would put up with any bullshit she feeds him is a neccesary piece for her fantasy

Looks like a midlife crisis, fear of aging...

If it wasn't for you pain, I would even pity her ...

Any after work party for leaving the job? Happy hour?

Did she actually throw away her makeup?

When was the first time she ever mentioned a boob job?

When was the last time you felt passion like when you courted her?

How aware were you that guys regularly hit on her in your absence? Hit on her even in your presence? Did she encourage it, ignore it, or try to avoid it before this?

Or is it all in her head? Throwing away makeup so guys won't give her attention, saying she broke the other man's heart?

She talks about makeup, you're neglected (didn't "make" her feel "cherished" and "adored" like other man), worry you have or will cheat, offer threesome, etc. - does she ever talk about WHY she did it? Still blaming your neglect? Does she talk about not knowing why or wanting to figure it out? Have you pressed her on it?

Yes they're getting food and everything for the office because she's leaving. No happy hour according to her, told me she wouldn't go anyway. Yes she threw out all of the make up, I don't know if that's her way to prove a point or what. I don't thinks she understands.

What do your kids think that you should do?

Maybe one of the women here will offer an opinion but to her the make up thing may be important.

So looking good is either for her to feel good to help her attract attention. Maybe throwing it away (and the good stuff ain't cheap) is some sort of penance or to show you that she's "changed"?

It's a baby step but still a step. I don't think she has clue as to what to do to fix things. HAs she read any of the books?

have you tried to lead her in the right direction of R or D?

I hope the OM does'nt show up at the party...

I am terribly guilty of giving people the benefit of the doubt to my own detriment so....

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 5:48 PM, March 30th (Thursday)]

I consider your wife as having gone off the rails. Her behavior is erratic. And has been. Even if you take her at her words, she didn't really lie after you found out, she openly went to be with him. Even a completely "in love" with this guy, her behavior disadvantaged her interests in all ways but one. I think you should take a wait-and-see approach. I think you should be Missouri (the show-me state). Let her prove it to you.

By the way, I call bullshit on other man not being there. Who would have told him to stay away?

If she hasn't already, I think she'll be able to give him a teary "goodbye, I'll always remember you and our times together." This all based on reading here a long time, not at all based on your wife, other than she is no special snowflake when it comes to remorse.

I know when I was in your spot it would have enraged me, but a few years later, it's meaningless. Either she is going to figure out ethics and morals and how to act after committing serious wrongs, or she won't. Time will tell.

For what it is worth, I think you did good Y99. You set boundaries. Maybe you came off as a dick, but we BS take so much disrespect in all of this, you have to be a dick sometimes.

180. Hard. Do what's best for you and absolutely don't do what's best for her. She needs to learn the hard way that you can and WILL move on and live a good life without her.

The best revenge is to be happy. Go forth and be happy man!

yankees99

What your feeling is normal for most men. I chose to sever ties with my WW the moment I had confirmation of her A. It helped that my D is in Med school so no kids to split time over.But that would never have made a difference in my decision anyways.

After years of protecting her & supporting her thru thick & thin, ups & downs, only to be disrespected to a point that I had never felt thru all my years on this earth was 100% the end of my M.

Sending strength my man

My WW never made an attempt to suggest R as she knew that monkey was never getting out of the Zoo.

[This message edited by notanotherchance at 9:48 PM, March 30th (Thursday)]

You have done well.

I strongly advise listening to you instincts and taking a trip: either the beach or the mountains.

There is a pressure that comes from the simple fact of her presence, and the knowledge it must be dealt with in one way or another that can cloud one's judgement.

Getting away from the pressure can clarify what you want.

It is a good idea.

Yankee

Walloped took time off early in his process to leave town with a friend. I remember I was strongly against it because I tend to be a very direct go hit your issues with a clenched fist type of guy…

That friend knew what was going on and proved to be a real asset for Walloped. In his case my advice NOT to take time-off was completely off.

Therefore, I won’t suggest you do not take time off.

However, do like Walloped and take time off with someone that can support and guide you when needed, but drink you under the table or raise your golf-game when that is needed. Don’t go alone because you will end up wallowing in some hotel-room or – even worse – seeking YOUR validation in the arms of another.

It goes without saying that you DO NOT lower yourself to your WW level…

Yankee – Your wife doesn’t get it…

That’s why I asked about IC.

The problem isn’t that she has great boobs or wears nice clothes or puts on make-up or has a great shape or is more flexible than a snake due to yoga. In an ideal world, George Clooney and Brad Pit could be competing about her, offering drinks and flexing their biceps or whatever, she could be enjoying it BUT she would know where the line-in-the-sand is and wouldn’t allow it to go any further. If you weren’t’ there witnessing it then in an ideal world she would come home and laughingly tell you about it and in an ideal world you would enjoy this incident with her and – in an ideal world – be thinking “no wonder they hit on her, she’s so beautiful and such a great person and I’m so grateful she chose me”.

The problem is that she cheats. She had an affair. She doesn’t seem capable of realizing why that was such a bad thing. She doesn’t realize the scope of the damage.

She needs to get to the bottom of how she reached the conclusion that having an affair was OK. How she felt entitled to reject you and move in with OM for a week and then move back. How she thinks and feels like all this is within her power. Why she seeks validation in the wrong places… That’s why I think she needs IC.

At the same time, I think some of your actions indicate you could do with guidance…

THERE IS NO SHAME IN THIS! What you were dealt with is the ultimate rejection and I don’t really know of a single case where a BH comes out “sane”. I personally carried PTSD symptoms for 17 years before finally dealing with them with an IC.

Another problem I see is that she isn’t getting the message that she needs help. I frankly don’t see YOU getting that message across to her. That’s where a MC can help. A good, capable infidelity-focused MC would probably realize right away that you both need sessions individually simply to get you to a stage where joint MC can do some good.