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Madhatters Only Thread

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exhaustedheader posted 11/2/2013 11:15 AM

Well, looks like MH folks have left the bldg. Yep, me too. Since its pretty much over, im going bak to lurking.
Its a good place to be...
I filed. She left. Who cares.

LosferWords posted 11/3/2013 20:44 PM

Hey all, just starting to get caught up. I did leave the building, and then left the state, as a matter of fact. My wife and I were out of town taking care of some family business, and just got back this afternoon.

How is everyone doing?

EH - I am really sorry to hear that she has filed. You can still find support here. I can imagine there was quite the blowup after you found out she visited him in jail while you were away. How has that odd feeling evolved over the last day or so? Do you have a lawyer retained?

Joshan - How are things going for you this week? How are the communication issues going, and has NC been put in place?

Unagie - How is the living situation coming along? Are you still thinking about moving to your mom's?

Silver - How are things going in the Silver household?

Sorry it has been awhile. This last week has been nuts. I'm hoping that this most recent family issue that we've dealt with will bring my wife and I closer as a team, although we're feeling a bit frazzled after getting home this afternoon.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Take care.

joshan1719 posted 11/4/2013 18:18 PM

Hi Losfer,

I told him NC and he said he was on board. But he created a new email account yesterday and when I was looking through his old email account there was a message in there about a job matching the profile he created, but the profile is for a different state, so I'm having a minor meltdown.

Unagie posted 11/4/2013 18:48 PM

Yea I'm still thinking of leaving. I feel utterly alone. I need to be happy again and need to be somewhere I can find happiness.

LosferWords posted 11/4/2013 19:00 PM

Joshan - I am so sorry. Are you planning on confronting him, or are you going to stay in investigative mode at this point? How is your anxiety level? No matter what you decide to do, please take care of yourself.

Unagie - You absolutely do need to find happiness. Do you feel like the living situation is making you feel even more lonely than if you would be alone? What actions can you take towards moving out?

joshan1719 posted 11/4/2013 19:03 PM

I'll probably ask him about it when I get home from work. Mentally I can't handle waiting to find out. I'm bordering anxiety attack level, but managing to stay composed because I'm at work and I can't really lose it. I'm alone, so luckily no one will see me right now, but I can't leave until 10:30 so I'm just trying to pass the time.

LosferWords posted 11/4/2013 19:08 PM

You sound similar to me, when it came to finding new information out. I would tell/confront my wife at the earliest possible opportunity that didn't impact work or my kiddo. I just could not keep that stuff in.

Maybe when you get a break from work you can take a walk outside and burn off some of that excess stress and energy, and get some fresh air?

Best of luck to you. I'll be keeping you in my thoughts. Let us know how it goes, okay? Sending you strength.

Ashamed14 posted 11/5/2013 16:41 PM

Hi Guys. I haven't posted in a while. I just needed to take a break.

Here's an update. My husband and I have been separated since mid-September. He got physically abusive with my son and it was the last straw for me. We are still in MC. He's in IC. I'm making calls to get IC started for me.

As part of our MC, we agreed to a "separation agreement" where he will not live at home for 6 months, plus various other things. He tries to come visit with our kids and have family dinners a couple times a week. We are supposed to go on dates at least 2x per month.

So, I've been having issues with feeling like I'm still the only one doing the heaving lifting/soul searching here.

(Quick background, I had multiple PA's in the early summer of 2012. He found out and I TT. He abused me for 2 months in every way you can imagine after my DD. I was too afraid to leave him and not be able to take the kids with me. He has been verbally abusive/emotionally abusive our entire marriage. My self-esteem is almost non-existent. In Sept. of 2012, we decided to start MC to "save our marriage". He started having an affair in November 2012-May 2013 the entire time we were in MC. While I was doing the real work during that time, he was falling in love and romancing a MW. When I found out, we started MC again (had been graduated for 2 weeks). So fast forward to this September, he throws our son against a wall, etc., and I throw him out. BUT, we are still trying to work on this, right?? Right.)

So, last night he comes home to tell me that he has tested positive for Clamydia and tries to blame me saying that I have been fucking around again. It has been 14+ months since I was with anyone other than my H. Supposedly he was with OW last in April. He took an STD panel in May and nothing turned up. Now all of a sudden he has Clamydia -- but I gave it to him.

Since my DD and I ended the TT, I have lived my life completely transparently. I started homeschooling our son, I leave my phone laying around, I closed all e-mail accounts, except for my business account, he has total access to my computer, my life is an open book. Now, especially that he has moved out, I don't know what he's doing or where 95% of the time. He changed the password on his e-mail so I can't read it anymore and I'm not allowed to look at his phone. He says he doesn't want to be in a relationship where either party feels the need to investigate the other. The reality is that neither of us has built trust back. I've been working on validating trust with him for over a year. Its been less that 6 months for me after I found out about his A. I'm still feeling very insecure in our marriage.

And he has the audacity to blame ME for giving HIM Clamydia. I've had numerous tests, annual exams, etc., in the past year and nothing has turned up for me. No symptoms.

I'm so pissed. I'm tired of feeling like I'm the only one working on our M. I'm tired of feeling like I'm an open book and he is closed. I'm tired of being blamed for my A, but don't feel like he has taken responsibility for his A. At what point is enough enough?

My friend told me last night that I live my life for everyone else and that I need to take some time to figure out what I want out of life. Also, that I have been "sad" for years. I'm broken and at a complete loss. Any advice?

Unagie posted 11/5/2013 17:55 PM

Ashamed, may I ask what is he doing to change? The emotional abuse is devastating, add in the physical abuse to both you and your child and it's hell. Why do you want to make this work? Is it because you truly believe he can change for the better or because you don't want to lose the relationship? He is obviously still sleeping around, and not using protection, willing to blameshift and not take ownership. You want my advice, I think both of you need to remain separated, truly separated and heal on your own for awhile. I am a hardcore advocate of R but your situation seems devastating and dangerous.

Losfer I can leave whenever if I move, would take me around 2-3 weeks to get it all together, money for a plane ticket, resigning, shipping all my stuff and getting my dog travel ready.

[This message edited by Unagie at 5:55 PM, November 5th (Tuesday)]

Ashamed14 posted 11/7/2013 18:59 PM

Unagie, he's not doing anything to change. We spoke last night and I told him that obviously we both still have trust issues, but that I've given him 15 months of proof that I'm living my life transparently. He's not giving me anything.

He told me he will not let me see his phone because he shouldn't have to, but he's not cheating. He said that I should go find some other "pussy" that will do everything I say. And, even though I had an STD panel 15 months ago, a cervical biopsy in January and a Pap Smear in April, all clear in everything, since he had an STD panel in May and was clear and is now testing positive, I'm still the one who gave him Clamydia.

I'm waiting on my test results and should know something tomorrow. I haven't had any symptoms and no other partners than him in 15 months. He has though, but its still my fault.

I feel like I'm trying to reason with someone in an alternate reality.

So I've taken your advice and received the same from my friends who know me about a real separation. We have set a schedule for him to see the kids and other than financial/kid-related, we aren't seeing each other or speaking at this point.

I know that I need to move ahead with my life and figure out what is going to make me happy. I'm trying to stay positive and not let the tragedy of the whole situation wear me down. And, to be honest, I'm thinking a lot about getting my life in order to prepare for divorce. Its not what I want though. But I don't think he will ever do the work to be the man that I need and I don't think he will ever be able to forgive me, even though he has committed the same sins. In his eyes, my infidelity was worse.

JustAShadow posted 11/8/2013 10:07 AM

Hi All - thanks for keeping the thread alive. I've been lurking but just not been able to post only to say that not much has changed.

* H is not willing to "work" on anything. The extent of his "work" is to come home 'on time'. The fact that this alone doesn't make us "happy" and everything all better means that it is out of our control (in his opinion).

* I'm still going to IC weekly. I had 4 or 5 days where I was back to being me - at least in that I was clear-headed and able to focus at work as I used to be. Then in the last day or two I started feeling sad/angry at H. Not at anything that he *did* per se - just in general. I didn't lash out / argue or anything like that...I just started ruminating again for some reason. His reaction? "I'm really tired of dealing with this".

T-minus 1 hour and I get to talk this out with my IC.

Sending strength to everyone.

joshan1719 posted 11/8/2013 17:58 PM

Just giving an update to my issues from the other day. Basically, I was letting my insecurities build things up in my head. He created the new email because it looks better than his old one. He's had the old one since he was a teenager and his new one is the more professional "firstnamelastname@gmail.com"

The job hit in a different state was a fluke. Because it's an internal system with his company it matched the job title he created, not necessarily the location, and I already knew he was looking into a new job. I've gone through his emails, his facebook, his texts. He's not talking to anyone. He's already expressed that he knows what he has here at home, he doesn't think for a minute he could find something "better" with another woman. I need to work on letting go of this anxiety.

Unagie posted 11/11/2013 02:28 AM

I want you guys to know I've read and plan to respond just haven't had time!! But you've all been heard.

Uneek posted 11/12/2013 00:17 AM

I haven't been around in several months, but I had to come back and post. I'm losing it, guys.

H has been struggling with work and family stuff, which has caused him to withdraw. When he withdraws, I tend to freak out a bit and then I find myself very vulnerable.

While he was out of town and unreachable about 2 months ago, a male friend and I were hanging out and he told me that he'd always found me attractive and wanted to sleep with me. I was totally honest with H about it and told him as soon as he returned home. We talked about it a lot, and I was even honest that I found it flattering and had considered it but didn't do anything.

I asked H how he felt about me hanging out with this friend in the future and he said he was fine with it as long as it was in a public place.

I have hung out with him a couple of times since and I know I need to stop. The sexual tension between us is so high. But it's also addicting, you know? I like the way it makes me feel. There's an adrenaline rush, and I get this feeling that I can't get with H, partially because of how much he's withdrawn from me. This is NOT an excuse - obviously I know that if I were to do something with this guy, that's on me and H is not to blame at all - but I also know that it's a situation where the circumstances made me ripe for the picking, so to speak.

I find myself constantly wondering what it would be like to have sex with other people - this guy, a guy at work, a former coworker, one of H's friends. H is the only person I've ever slept with and I feel like a college student or something with all the random hook ups I feel like i want to have. I don't know if it's a midlife crisis or what. I am going to talk to our counselor about it, but I needed to get it out now, to people who might be able to understand how it feels and why the allure is there, even knowing what I know about how it feels to be a BS, and who can help keep me accountable.

JustAShadow posted 11/12/2013 08:08 AM

Uneek -

I'm not the greatest at giving advice but here goes...

First - good for you on reaching out and being honest with how you are struggling now.

Now, I'm going to say this gently...

if I were to do something with this guy, that's on me

IMO you already have "done something" with this guy. You chose to continue to hang out with a guy that told you he wanted to sleep with you. When you told your H about this the conversation should NOT have included a 'can I still hang out with him' question.

Regardless of how things are going with your relationship with your H ask yourself, is this who you want to be? Do you want to be the one that makes your H feel unloved, unsupported, and not enough? Because even if your H is not working 100% to reestablish a relationship with you *this* is not what he deserves.

And you deserve better than doing this to yourself.

Earlier this year you mentioned that your wayward self was so far removed from who you are now. It's not. All it took was a guy to tell you he wanted to sleep with you.

Understand, I'm not under any illusions that I'm different (I'm *NOT* sitting on a throne over here) I'm just saying that we madhatters must remain vigilant in keeping those walls up and boundaries in place.

You can wonder about what it's like to sleep with other people - you aren't dead. But you should not be hanging out with anyone who's already stated that he wants to sleep with you (and knows that you want to sleep with him). H's permission or not. (Unless you and H are in an open relationship...in which he ALSO gets to flirt with another person...and then that's up to you all. But given your past posts I don't believe that you and your H are in an open relationship. Or, you're open to YOUR flirting just not HIS flirting?)

IF you want to remain working on your relationship with your H go no contact with this guy ASAP. And tell your H that you have done that and are sorry you hung out with the guy after that first conversation.

Are you in IC besides the MC?

Uneek posted 11/12/2013 08:54 AM


Yes, we are both in IC in addition to MC. And I know you're right. I know this. I know that the attraction, the wanting to, is all about how it makes me feel and has nothing to do with the other guy. It feels good to be wanted. And I know I need to figure out what it is inside me that is so broken that this attention "helps," even though it is such a temporary fix.

I have IC today and this is definitely on the list of things to talk about.

rachelc posted 11/12/2013 09:41 AM

Uneek - stop spending time with this guy so you can get some perspective.
I'm of the opinion that no one needs opposite sex friends.

Trying2Survive1 posted 11/12/2013 10:01 AM

Uneek, I have to agree with the others, don't hang out with this guy. What's the point? I know it's hard to resist that rush of being desired and wanted, especially when you're feeling your needs are not being met atm. But at what cost to your own emotional health and integrity? Not to mention how your possible wayward behavior would affect your H, especially when it sounds like he is having some issues as well.

JustAShadow posted 11/12/2013 11:32 AM

Uneek - One thing my H like to say to me when I'm yammering on about how we need to "work" on our relationship is something to the effect of, "Well why do we have to 'work' after my affair? Why didn't you gain this new perspective after yours? You're (JAS) just playing the victim."

And, in a sense, it's true - why didn't I start working on myself / learning about affairs after I had them? My answer to him is that I was just having too much fun...and he wasn't showing emotion about it (since he knew everything about A #2 as it had started at his behest and continued with his full knowledge - not that there's anything real great about that).

Anyways, what I'm saying is if your H has any similar resentment (or if he's just not participating much) then you can use this opportunity to show your H that you DO get it and show that are "working" on it.

My favorite household member is our cat (no kids). She looks at me with such sweet and 'open' eyes and I just give her a kitty hug and kiss and smile and coo to her. (Yes I am crazy cat lady...but just one cat right now). I started wondering if I did that (showed open joy about his presence) with my H would he come around and start mirroring that back to me?

In the 'after the affair' book - I believe it's in the regaining physical intimacy section - they mention faking it until you make it. Sometimes I think that *that* is one thing I've not yet tried and maybe should.

Somewhere along the line swords must be laid down and we must make ourselves vulnerable to each other again. Rarely does that happen at the same time (1, 2, 3, go!) but maybe this is an opportunity for you to show your H some humility on your error and show him what you are willing to do for him. Well, you'd actually be doing it FOR you but that may impact him positively.

Sorry - I'm rambling here and some of this seems a little self-journaling. If anything makes sense here for you great. That was my intention even if maybe I ended up somewhere else.

ETA: In IC I'm working on being able to be 'vulnerable' as I have not been really ever in our relationship (or any other relationship). I've been super duper helpful taking care of H's practical needs/wants but I've NOT been emotionally vulnerable. I can get oogly-googly emotional about my furry friends (cats / dogs / horses) but have not with people. So that may be why I wonder about the scenario of if I were oogly googly would he soon become that way back?

[This message edited by JustAShadow at 11:44 AM, November 12th (Tuesday)]

Uneek posted 11/12/2013 20:25 PM

Thanks y'all.

Rachel, I disagree that men and women can't be friends but I do know that being friends with this guy is not going to work. And that sucks hardcore because we've been friends for 14 years and have a ton of shared history that I don't have with all that many people who still live nearby. Sometimes I get really pissed that he even told me how he felt, and sometimes I get pissed at myself for having reciprocal feelings. Regardless of who I'm angry with, I know NC is the answer.

I know it's hard to resist that rush of being desired and wanted, especially when you're feeling your needs are not being met atm. But at what cost to your own emotional health and integrity?

Trying, that hit home for me. That is *exactly* where I'm at right now. Shadow, you mentioned that you aren't the oogy-googy one. In our relationship, I am that person and H is less so. When he gets stressed or has anxiety he pulls away from me even more in that way. Again, it doesn't give me license to turn to someone else, but I can see how the puzzle pieces fit together.

H and I had a really long conversation yesterday about all this, about how my actions (working long hours, not coming home when he thought I should be, things like that) affected him, and how his actions (not being emotionally available when I was home, primarily) affected me. We're definitely on the right path and I can feel my desire for this other guy fading away. NC will help keep that desire at bay, I hope.

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