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Last November, while watching a movie together on my husband's PC, he fell asleep. When the movie ended, I closed the window, and saw that a messaging app window was open on his PC. I scanned the list of people he was messaging, all familiar, though I noticed the name of our niece was misspelled. Hmm why is he messaging our niece, who just visited us a few months ago. I clicked on the thread, and it was not our niece, it was a woman that he was exchanging very flirty, even intimate messages with. I didn't read every one - there were too many. While I did this my husband lay there with his head on my lap, asleep. I made no effort to hide what I was doing. I saw messages that said "I can't help but miss you" from him to her, and her repeating it with heart emojis. My husband never uses emojis but he was using kissy face emojis with her. I scrolled up to the beginning of this thread and found him asking her for a picture, and telling her she was LOVELY. I have never, ever heard of this woman - he's never mentioned her. The messages dated back for years and years, and the most recent were from a few months ago, her mentioning she was going to be traveling to Paris, and my husband saying what a coincidence he would also be going to Paris around the same time, and they should meet up! Then he invited her to OUR new home - we recently moved to Spain. She responded with a shocked face emoji, "You're inviting me to your place in Barcelona?" He affirmed she could come as soon has his sister finished her visit in September. He never mentioned this invitation to me.

I panicked and my eyes filled with tears and I could not bear to read more. I closed his laptop, though I could have read messages or searched his email or other apps, I did not. I decided I'd ask him about it. I went to the bathroom and cried, and he heard me and came running in. What's the matter, he asked. I said nothing, and went to my office, and cried some more. Then, when I was calmer, I asked him, who is Helen? He acted confused. I didn't have a last name, by the way. Then he said she was a friend. He said he was her mentor. I said, there were no messages at all about business or anything professional, in fact it looked pretty intimate. He said he hadn't talked to her in ten years. I said I found messages from a few months ago inviting her to our new house. He said that she recently got divorced and he was trying to make her feel better. I asked why he was complimenting her looks, and why did he say he missed her. He said he was just saying it, he didn't mean anything by it. He said he'd never slept with her, but why would they be saying they "couldn't help but miss each other?" Nothing he said added up. I was in a blind panic, and unable to think straight, and went to bed. The next day he was in full defensive mode and refused to answer any questions, and told me he never revealed his friendship with her because I always act "funny" about his women friends. He then said he wanted to have more women friends in his life, who were unconnected to me. For a couple of weeks whenever I tried to bring it up he became very hostile and rude, shutting me down. We fought a lot, and several times he threatened to leave me, which he's never done. Then, a few months passed and I was using his iPad, with his permission. I couldn't get it to go to sleep and was opening settings to try to turn it on low power mode so it wouldn't go dead. And I saw his messages app, and scanned the active chats to see if Helen was among them. And that's when I found an exchange with a different woman, let's call her Barbie. My husband was thanking her for being willing to meet in person, and giving her his availability. Then he asked, what are you looking for? with a kissy face emoji. She responded she was looking for someone fun, was open, and wanted a long term relationship. The message was dated 2019. I felt like my whole world ended, right there. It was clearly an exchange from a dating app. I waited a few days and confronted him. He acted confused, then said that all he did was join an app (he 'couldn't remember' which one) in order to talk to women to get a different perspective on some problems he wanted to discuss about *our marriage*. I asked how many women, he "couldn't remember". I asked if it was more than 10, he said no. I asked if it was more than 5, he said no, he said he met up with a 'few' women on different occasions. He said he never met them for sex or anything other than 'friends'.

I do not believe that he joined a dating app to meet women friends. I don't believe "Helen" is just a friend. He's shown sketchy behavior in the past - twice I have found a condom in his dop kit, though we do not use condoms. He gave a lame excuse each time and acted very irritated and dismissive, like I was wrong for questioning him. I also have seen texts from him to women that were dated during the annual guy's ski trips he takes. One said, "You are cute and seem like fun, want to meet up?" He brushed me off when I asked about it, said "It's more fun to ski with men AND women, stop being so jealous".

My gut has often told me something is wrong, but I never had enough evidence to confront him. With the dating app business, I finally do have some evidence, and I am furious and heartbroken. He refuses to engage me in conversation about it, just being dismissive and acting like I am crazy for not believing his story that he joined a dating app after 15 years of marriage to find women friends because it would be disrespectful to talk about me with any of his friends or family. I am outraged he'd think I would believe such a pathetic lie. I keep giving him a chance to come clean about what are clearly boundary violations in our marriage if not outright betrayals but he always changes the subject to say that the real problem is my suspicious nature and if anything he should be the angry one for me snooping. I do not snoop! Each time I saw these messages, it was when he had handed me his electronics. And the dating app message was more than six years old, had been sitting there all that time - surely if I was a 'snoop' I would have discovered it far sooner.

I feel gaslit, betrayed, and my intelligence insulted. He has refused to give me more details. Months have passed now (first Dday was november 2024, second was January 20, 2025). I took a week long vacation alone to think things over. And I have decided that I have finally had enough. I cannot consider staying married to someone with all of this suspicious behavior. I need a full accounting of all of his betrayals, or I am leaving. I told him this, and he doesn't believe me. He says he was never looking to replace me. He refers to Dday as "our situation". He says he's willing to work on our marriage if I am,but he has not apologized, not asked for my forgiveness, and not given me a single scrap of information voluntarily - I've had to pry, cry and scream to get the admissions he's given. I did get him to admit that he was open to the notion of having sex with the women he met on the dating app, but he swears he did not. At this point I do not feel I can believe anything he says.

I have thought long and hard about it and I simply cannot continue a marriage with someone who I know is lying to me. I want full disclosure. Am I being unreasonable? I am dying to hear anything validating at all. Life is a hell of him trying to sweep it all under the rug and getting nasty if I dare say anything about his lies and betrayal. Then there is the fact I would never, ever have moved overseas if I'd known he'd joined a dating app and met up with multiple women. I feel like he stole my agency and my life. How do I get him to just tell me the truth?

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How do I get him to just tell me the truth?

You can't make him do anything he doesn't want to do. Cheaters lie a lot, unfortunately. He sounds like he's done this a lot.

It's difficult to know if he actually had sex with them, but usually if they have the opportunity to meet in person, they're probably meeting for sex. It's possible that he didn't have sex, but not probable.

For you, IC (individual counseling) with a betrayal trauma specialist may be helpful. Bonus points if they also have infidelity in their wheelhouse. If you have trouble with depression or sleeping, talk to your doctor about some meds. You may also want to be tested for STDs/STIs because there are some nasty things out there.

You're not being unreasonable in asking him not to lie, but it may be that you won't get the info you're looking for. Sorry, some people can be such jerks.

Right now, focus on you and your healing.

You are not being unreasonable in the least.

Your gut, combined with what you found, are telling you the truth. He has been cheating on you for years. Cheating needn't involve sex - emotionally connecting with someone, lying to you about that person, hiding things from you, etc - are all BETRAYALS. Personally, I think it's highly unlikely he hasn't gotten physical with at least some of these women.

So you're husband is a serial cheater who refuses to be honest with you or take any accountability for his actions. Your pain and dismay over that is very real and justified.

Others will come along with more advice but you asked "what can I do to get him to tell me the truth." Not one thing. We can't make anyone do anything they don't want to do. And he knows if he comes clean you are likely to leave him and he doesn't want that. He will do what he thinks is in his best interest: keep the truth from you.

You can control you. You don't deserve this. You don't deserve to be lied to and gaslit. It is unacceptable, to say the least. So in your situation - with an unrepentant spouse who is in full on defensive mode - your only option is to move away from him. Physically if you can but definitely emotionally. He is not your husband right now. Don't act like his wife. Protect yourself emotionally and financially. Speak with an attorney. Seek counseling if available. Gather your support group and surround yourself with their love and support.

Start moving yourself out of infidelity and towards healing.

These are hard things to do but you have nothing to work with in his current state. Protecting yourself will get you to healing faster. He may reverse course when losing you happens (i.e. he faces consequences and his only hope is to come clean). Don't count on it but it does happen. You focus on YOU and what you need to feel safe and preserve your sanity.

Above all don't do the pick me dance. It never works. If he thinks you aren't going anywhere and that you are desperate to keep him, he won't change a single thing. You will set yourself up for years of pain.

Keep posting.

I have thought long and hard about it and I simply cannot continue a marriage with someone who I know is lying to me. I want full disclosure. Am I being unreasonable? I am dying to hear anything validating at all.

First of all, I'm so sorry that this has happened to you. You are not being unreasonable at all! He has given you multiple and compelling reasons to not continue in your marriage, sad to say.

I mean, honestly, you can end a marriage or relationship for any reason you want if it's not something working for you. And yes, this is way beyond a good reason, imo. I admire your strength in wanting to be true to yourself, and not being willing to accept lies.

No you’re not being unreasonable and he isn’t giving you anything to work with. He’s banking on you not leaving and/or filing for divorce. Prove him wrong and see what happens.

I married one too, so sorry you find yourself here. I could write pages about the slow, painful process of digging out bits and pieces of my WH’s secret life. Your story is ringing all the bells. Everything I found in the beginning was an accident, a shocking surprise, but once I got past my third or fourth huge surprise, I started looking hard. I got so many versions of the "truth" and I believed them all until I found proof otherwise. So many digital surprises to find when the deceit ranged over a decade and as many devices and accounts. My discovery process took years, and I failed myself by failing to see what was in front of my face for what it was, and instead let him give me curt explanations that made no sense. I started keeping a list of the lies because he couldn’t keep his stories straight and would get angry or refuse to discuss the A with me when things didn’t make sense. He made me feel crazy and said I was trying to trick or trap him, I twisted his words, I’m an overthinker, I’m unable to let the past go….it’s sad in hindsight how his pushback shut me down so easily. I was just so heartbroken, hurt and confused and I just wanted to understand what my life had become and I was desperate to believe the kinder versions of the story. It’s really quite ugly.

My WH was playing the married looking to cheat game, I love my wife and my life, I just deserve some fun on the side, and a sexy travel companion for those boring business trips. I was made a fool over and over again and am living with the reality that I will never actually know what was real. It is so painful to work through betrayal when there is so much love in the way, and if you are trusting or non-confrontational or unable to see who is really hiding inside your spouse….your journey will be a hard one. It took me time and a second therapist to understand I wasn’t having conversations with the man I thought I married, or my best friend, but a desperate, trapped, broken selfish man who was lying to us both. It’s a lot to sort through to figure out what is left of the relationship or if you even want one anymore.

My regret for myself was not taking a huge step back, I clung to him and our old life because I couldn’t face the truth yet. I knew enough, and each new thing was betrayal enough, and each new lie revealed reason enough to say enough, but it took me a while to process and deconstruct and see things and him more clearly, and more safely. I hope you protect yourself, financially, emotionally, and do not accept the gaslighting, stonewalling, the anger outbursts, the claims that you are making a big deal out of nothing…. He has broken his word and your trust and is trying to wriggle his way into a comfort zone where he can continue to control the outcome. I’m guessing he is not thinking rationally right now, and it took me a while to see that we were both reacting horribly to the mess he made of our marriage and to realize how little I knew him, or knew of his secrets. He wasn’t smart enough to hide it all, neither is yours, and if you were to do a deep dive, you might paint a fuller picture of his infidelities, but you know enough to know he has no right to continue the lies and manipulation. You deserve either respect or distance to protect yourself until you recover from the shock and the betrayal.

Take care of yourself, trust only yourself for now, and know that there is a possibility he is incapable or unwilling to tell you the truth. You may get lucky and get all the truth somehow. But as my first therapist wisely asked me, what could knowing more bring you that you don’t already know to be true? Best to you, and give yourself grace as you go through this process.

[This message edited by whatisloveanyway at 7:25 PM, Thursday, March 27th]

Condoms in the suitcase?

You know the truth.

If you ever get him to admit it, does that change the way forward?

If not, you should find a lawyer in Barcelona, just to get the lay of the land. Your situation might be complicated. Some big questions: can you get divorced in Spain, would it be recognized by the country you married in, which would be more favorable to you, where are assets, would a Spanish decree be readily enforceable where assets are; stuff like that.

Your English is good, if that’s your native language, find an English speaking lawyer. Good English; this is not the time for miscommunication.

Sorry you’re here.

I am so sorry this happened to you. You will likely never get the full truth from him. Seems he has no interest in coming clean.

Get IC, it does help. If the first one isn't a fit try another. See an attorney, protect yourself and your finances.

Take care of you, see a doctor for STD testing, stay active, see friends and family.

He is not concerned with your well being or caring about how he has made you feel. His actions and responses make him a poor candidate for rebuilding your relationship.

Right now, Your only path that leads to finding your happiness down the road is without him. If you start to journey that path maybe he will come to his senses and start caring about what you need and follow you.

But you cannot control what he does, only what you do, and that means taking the steps toward a life without him. Call a lawyer. Call a trauma therapist just for you.

Right now he is not someone you can ever trust. I am sorry.

I feel this has to be blunt because there is no way around what he’s doing. This is what he does and this is who he is. I have no suggestion for you because I think you have basically been living a lie the whole time you’ve been married. I don’t know how you fix that. I wish I had words of encouragement but I can’t think of any. He would have to recalibrate his brain to become the person you want him to be. I’m not real sure that’s possible.
Please take care of yourself. On this forum, I’m a broken record. I worry so much about people who have to make such heart-wrenching decisions about their lives. You need a therapist to help you with grief because that’s what you’re feeling and you need a doctor to put you on some medication for anxiety And possibly help you eat and sleep. You need to take care of your health first and foremost because without it nothing else matters. Please look after yourself and I’m so very sorry this has happened to you.

Thank you everyone for your honesty and support in responding to my post.

It's hard, accepting that I've been living a lie. Sometimes I cry and my husband will ask why are you crying? As if he has somehow forgotten Dday. I'll say, because I've found out who you really are, and I feel so stupid. His response is to get in an irritated rage. He's gonna stick with the lies - that he met up with women to "get a different perspective" and that he "wasn't trying to replace me, that he "didn't mean to hurt me". All of this makes me so angry I can hardly see straight, though I suppress it, not wanting to fight over what a liar he is. I am not going to get sucked in anymore to fighting about his gaslighting.

I have always known he was a cheater, honestly. He cheated before we got married, but I accepted the excuse that we had "sort of" broken up. but in all honesty, whether we are in agreement that we broke up or not, he behaved with a breathtaking lack of sexual ethics; he was with lots of women in a three month period in which he said he was 'thinking things over' in response to a conversation I started in which I asked, should we break up. In my view, we never came to any sort of conclusion, but suddenly he was unreachable, and taking weekends away, and acting really cold. He blamed it on me, said he was heartbroken that I even asked that question..but in reality, as I learned later, he was seeing lots and lots of women, sleeping with them, taking them on weekends etc. We continued to have sex occasionally, unprotected, and he never once told me he was having unprotected sex with other women, I thought simply that we were taking time apart. Only when we got back together and the women he'd been sleeping with started showing up at the door, texting him, calling him...only then did I find out how much fun he'd been having while he was 'heartbroken' and "thinking things over". But by then we were back together...it was hellish, the discovery of each new woman. Just hellish, but I lacked the courage to break up with him for good and told myself that it was my fault for making him think I wanted to break up n the first place. We got married, I thought it was all behind him, but now I think that he was showing me who he was and I just couldn't accept he'd always been that way and would always be that way.

I am pretty certain he's never going to tell me the truth though I told him, very clearly and repeatedly, that our marriage will not continue if he does not. I have protected myself financially, I have consulted a lawyer, I am seeing a therapist. I have told several of my friends what is going on, as well. I've kept all the discoveries of the past secret, and I decided I no longer wanted to protect his reputation in this way. I think he doesn't really believe there will be consequences, because there never has been in the past. And I think he thinks that since we live in a a foreign country, I will not quite dare to leave him. But I have had enough. I was super scared at first, and cried for months, then went through a lot of rage...now, I think I'm mostly in acceptance, with backsliding to crying and rage which is okay. I get that this will be a process.

I was demanding a sit down for him to tell me the truth..but honestly, we've ha dd a few of those and each time he has continued to minimize his behavior, diminish my pain, tell me to "get perspective" and never admit to anything further than what evidence I've confronted him with, gaslighting me all the while. So, I decided to just drop the sit down. He's just going to lie some more, especially since he's had time to plan out what he is going to day - the only time he admits to *some* truth is in highly emotional conversations where I refuse to let him lie, tell him to stop talking to me like I'm some idiot asshole, and read the messages I've printed out, out loud, of him talking to these women. He has trouble lying right to my face when I start drilling him. But I hate these encounters - I hate having to drag admissions out of him. It's exhausting. I've had enough. He doesn't believe it, but I'm not backing down, I'm not going to do what i've always done and let it get swept under the rug and go back to normal, when normal is just really him cheating whenever he wants and then acting like I'm a jealous crazy bitch... I'm not going to live a lie anymore.

appreciate any advice to those who've left spouses who refuse to be honest, who would rather throw away a 20 year marriage than admit to who they really are

[This message edited by marriedaliar at 11:42 PM, Sunday, March 30th]

FWIW, I filed for D the week before our 34th anniversary. For me, it was the best decision. Please look up the sunk cost fallacy.

He probably didn't want to replace you. He wanted you as wifey, so he could have a respectable front to show the world. Then, he could still do all of the other stuff and nobody would know. What we would call a cake eater.

I totally understand the loss of agency and feeling like my XWH stole my life. Had I known who he truly was, I would never have married him and my life may have been so different. There are a few things I don't regret. My children and teaching them to be loyal.

Your WH is showing you who he is, and it will only compile over time.

Do you want to be living like this for the next 20+ years?

"He is not concerned with your well being or caring about how he has made you feel. His actions and responses make him a poor candidate for rebuilding your relationship."

"Do you want to be living like this for the next 20+ years?"

"Your only option is to move away from him. Physically if you can but definitely emotionally. He is not your husband right now. Don't act like his wife. Protect yourself emotionally and financially. Speak with an attorney. Seek counseling if available. Gather your support group and surround yourself with their love and support. Start moving yourself out of infidelity and towards healing. These are hard things to do but you have nothing to work with in his current state."

Sorry I don't know how to extract and reply to specific responses so I've listed them here.

The most difficult thing is his indifference to my pain, the way he diminishes the impact of his actions. Of course he thought he got away with it all, and now he's resentful that he has to think about and explain what he was doing all those years ago. I'm pretty sure he hasn't met up with other women since 2019, the year I discovered he was on a dating app and meeting women, because after that year there was the pandemic, then we were both working from home and went on a couple of cross country and international trips, then planned and executed our move to Spain - there wasn't time and opportunity. However it was during this period that he started treating me like shit - he became noticeably more distant and distracted, secretive with his phone, turning off shared location services and changing the password and always keeping it with him. He started being highly irritable and erupting into rages over small things, and threatening to leave me. I believe all of this is related to his betrayals. Maybe he was still having an EA(s); at one point he accused me of reading his email, which I had not, but he got really really nasty screaming at me that I was a liar. I think that he was cleaning up his commms of evidence of further betrayals so I wouldn't find them and there were "smoking guns" in his emails. I can say with 100% truth I have never lied to my husband, over anything, so I just shrugged and said, you're going to believe what suits your narrative, but I'm standing confidently in my truth.

Being abroad makes things complicated. Right now we live in a small place, and four months ago I moved to a separate bedroom, but it's still difficult having to be physically near him. I'm making friends and spend time away from him as much as possible. I think because of the complications of our situation he believes I won't do anything for that reason, that I'll just be mad for awhile and then gradually sweep it under the rug. But I will not do that. I have no regard at all for sunk costs. The idea of aging with him, possibly requiring his help if I became infirm in some way - my God, that thought fills me with horror.

My main concern now is to figure out how and when to disclose to him my plans. He is likely to become very bitter. I'm not worried about financial malfeasance, I am taking care of that. I will have the opportunity to move into a separate unit as certain work is completed. He is worried about what the people around us in our new home will think when that happens - he cares far more about reputation management than he does about confronting the horrible shit he's done in our marriage, and my feelings about it. This enrages me, and I'm using the anger to propel me forward. I feel so so much grief. I try not to think about it. I find it difficult to work still, and to sleep, but it gets a little bit better day by day. If there is anyone out there who had to live with their WS for a time before they could enact a legal separation and divorce, I'd appreciate any advice you have.