SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I disagree with C24.

A1 is content with a future by himself if need be.

His WW lacks empathy which IMO is evident in the fact that she had to write everything down and held onto it and was seemingly surprised when he didn't get over it within a month after discovery.

She, in her current state, might be a catch for someone although I don't think any good, moral and ethical person would give her a shot if they knew what she did in her previous marriage.

Yes, there was a lot of projection on this thread but that is because the people here have seen it all before and some of these people are good predictors on future behavior.

I projected based on A1's initial actions that this was headed to divorce and decisively and I got hammered by a few people here for that. In the end, I was right and their hopes for A1 to strongly put R as a solid option outweighed what was best for A1.

In the end, I think that some people here lost sight of the football. The football was the length of the affair and deepness of it. Very few people reconcile or succeed in it. This betrayal was one of the Top 5 I have ever even heard of.

A1 is best served carving out a future where he can be happy.

in his own words, it's evident that such a future is not with WW

This thread was not about who was right or who was wrong, it was all about common sense and as NSL put it, I didn't want to see A1 sitting here in 10-20 years not being able to get over it when he is still young enough to achieve happiness

“I didn't want to see A1 sitting here in 10-20 years not being able to get over it when he is still young enough to achieve happiness”

AO’s happiness doesn’t depend on whom he is with. Well… it shouldn’t depend on whom he is with. He could be happy with his WW, he could be happy alone, he could be happy with Edna down the road whom he might start dating in a year or two. But he NEEDS to be happy with himself. He needs to be content with his decisions and his actions and at peace with his conscience.

It’s totally up to him if he things he can achieve that with R or with D. Based on what he has shared then I personally have no issue with either decision on his behalf. But not that it matters. It’s totally is call.

The writing not displaying empathy? It’s a known method in IC and a trained IC can use the writing to evaluate the “level” and “depth” of empathy. It’s considered more reliable than spoken empathy, especially if conditions might prohibit the patient (WW) from displaying the empathy to the relevant party (AO).

M1965 wrote in an excellent post:

I am not saying that is how things are in every reconciliation; it obviously is not. However, there do seem to be a lot of couples who remain together after infidelity, but the magic has gone, the trust has gone, the love has gone.

What M1965 describes there isn’t reconciliation. That’s limbo. I don’t think anyone on this thread was suggesting AO be in limbo.

Kinda late to the game here. But which software recovery tool did you use? Is there a recommended one here on SI?

I use Recuva

Bigger,

A1 has already made the point that he can be happy by himself so he's ahead of the game

I don't believe she has empathy. Her reaction to his not being to bounce back from this is proof in the pudding. She wrote the logs at the suggestion of her counselors.

To do what she did for 9 years shows how greedy a human being and how morally bankrupt a human being she was. Her hiding it and making life 'as normal' afterwards knowing what the risks were shows a lack of empathy too

I do agree with your and M1965's statement about limbo. Limbo is not the place to be. I think A1 moved out of limbo right away

I think his WW was probably initially a good person who loved her husband. The manner in which the affair began is actually a pretty common story. They were together from a very young age, and were basically each other's one and only. H works all the time. There were clearly unaddressed marital issues by this time. SAHM enters her 30s and life gets a little depressed, lonely and bored. Strikes up an inappropriate friendship with a school Dad that escalates into an affair. We've all heard that story hundreds of times.

What I can't wrap my head around is how the A continued for NINE YEARS!!!! Her ability to compartmentalize to that degree for such a long time indicates that she was not just a morally bankrupt person, but that she possibly had some legitimate mental issues. How did they maintain that level of interest and INTENSITY for 9 years? Did they have daily sex the whole time? Did it ever taper off, even stop for awhile? Did OBS ever find anything out? If some of their friends knew, I wonder how much got around? How many people knew?

Thinking about the manner in which these 2 were able to carry on their affair the way they did, it actually makes me lose a little faith in humanity. What awful people, good Lord! She may have done the work on herself, gotten therapy, and become the model wife for AO. But I'm sure she lived in constant fear that somebody was going to tip him off. It must've been on her mind every single day.

I think the only way for either of them to move on with their life is to D. Her, as well as him. This is just too big of a THING for a couple to get past. It will always be the elephant in the room. Not only will AO be able to move on to a better life, but she will too. She will finally be free from her horrible past. She will no longer have the A hanging over her. No longer will she have to live in constant fear of him finding out. No longer will she have to worry about if she's being a good enough wife to cover up for her mistakes. I'm not sticking up for her, by any means. Just trying to illustrate to AO that D is probably the best option for her as well as him.

[This message edited by Fenderguy at 9:42 AM, January 8th (Monday)]

IMO no compartimentation took place at all. A1 and his DDs endured a moody wife/mother for 10 years (9 affair me 1 greaving) .

I believe she didnt left A1 because OM never offered to leave his wife. Also to have the A1 income and are her DDs everyday...pure selfiness.

It naked me wonder if A1 sponsored hotels, tríps, gifts to OM, while the A es going on.

Edited, todo many typos

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 10:25 AM, January 8th (Monday)]

A1,

Many here want to deal in absolutes. Unfortunately, as you know, people are more complex that that. There are more examples in history of good people doing bad things, and horrible people showing incredible compassion, than there are of people acting completely predictably based on their character. I personally would hate to be defined by the worst of my actions. Nor would I want anyone to define me by the stupid crap I did when I was younger and less evolved. Wisdom requires time and mistakes.

I will not even attempt to tell you what your WW was thinking. Nor will I predict the best outcome for you, to do so would be very presumptive.

I can tell you that when I was in the time after discovery, all I wanted was for the pain to end. I am an executive and a strategic thinker. So I thought if I had an absolute plan, I could plan my way out of pain. Divorce seemed like the quickest way out of pain. No more WW, no more feeling emasculated, no more emotions. But life is more complex than that. I thought my managerial, decisive decisions would be my way out. The problem is that I was making those decisions in pain and not with a clear head. (though it seemed they were clear headed at the time)

My point is this, any way you go, only time will help you deal with the pain. Nobody in pain or trauma wants to hear this. It will never go away, neither with D or R. But its edges will dull with time. I urge you to listen to your own heart and intellect and make your decisions base on the fact that no matter which way you go, there will be consequences seen and unseen. Do not make decisions based on someone's assertion that you have to "get your balls back". Life and relationships are more complex than that.

Make your decisions based on what is best. What will bring the least pain to you and your family, what decision has the potential to bring joy back to your life? As you recover and go to IC, that will become more clear to you, and to your WW. Remember that this is complex, and no amount of armchair quarterbacking from SI will take into consideration the complexities of your family's life.

I am not advocating for D or R. I am advocating for letting the smoke clear until you know that the clarity you have now is still the picture you see in time. That is all. Good luck, we're pulling for you.

AO1,

Follow your heart and make the choices that will ensure your future happiness.

Just a thought on the WW buying same gifts for both BS and POSOM. IMO, it was very smart of WW since this will eliminate any possibility of a slip up on her part. Just imagine a conversation as follows if she bought different gifts for AO1 and POSOM:

WW: Honey, why are you not wearing the blue necktie I got you last month?

BS: Blue necktie??. You got me a pair of pink socks!

WW: Oops...

So, hopefully A1, you are now eating and drinking (non-alcoholic liquids) and exercising . . . all more and better than before. I'm glad to hear you're back in the swing of things at work. That's always a good sign. It's good to hear things are good with DD's, and hopefully school and other pursuits are going well for them. Please stay in frequent touch with them, I think that's probably important for this period in their lives (and in yours). I hope you're spending time with old and new friends and as issues come up, airing them to the most appropriate recipients as needed.

I stand by this and mean it . . . Not sure why Western or others would disagree . . .

A1, continue to take care of yourself, you've had some rough times but you're coming through admirably. Keep it up! You have new and exciting challenges ahead of you!!

I also stand by my belief that there are no true psychics or mind-readers, and while some have had similar experiences, no one can truly know what you or those you have (or had) relationships with thought or are thinking at any given point. I do recommend (distantly) semi-monitoring your daughters' health and happiness though, during what may be trying times for them as well. They each (from what you've written) seem to be handling things a bit differently, and as you feel better, I'd watch to help insure neither of them feels too much anger or pain (to the point that it seems to interfere to much with their lives). While each can probably work out things on their own, encouraging words and other support can be very helpful.

[This message edited by c24j at 1:38 AM, January 9th (Tuesday)]

I have read all your post and cannot imagine having to deal with such a situation. I have read of only one other situation that approaches yours. I read where the wife of a man had an 11 year affair with the husband's best friend. Like with you, the affair ended when the friend died of a natural cause. The husband did not find out about the affair until 18 years after it had ended with the death of the AP. 18 years where she had devoted herself to her husband and had been the best wife a man could want. Needless to say, as with you, it crumbled his world. The last I read he was still with his wife. Maybe he stayed because of the great 18 years they had had or maybe she was so imbedded in his life he felt he was better off with her than without her. Either way it was his choice. Whatever your choice, do not lock your heart up and never trust again. To close yourself up will only dull the life you have in front of you. I have been in some terribly bad situations in my life but one thing has always been true. Time passes and things get better, but only if you let them. Not ever woman is out to hurt your life and break your trust. You have a year to do all the thinking you need and to plan the rest of your life. All decisions are in your hands and will be made by you and what is best for you. I do wish you well.

wow 18 years later. No way to live. The guy will be a broken man for the rest of his life

I think that he will be fine. One of the reason A1 has illicited such passionate responses is that he conveys an inner strength and innate likability.

We are not defined by how we handle good times, we’re defined by how we fight adversity. A1 is doing an amazing job defining who is.

We all know how diamonds are made

wow 18 years later. No way to live. The guy will be a broken man for the rest of his life

???

Our friend anoldlion didn't say that was the outcome.

no he said his 'life crumbled'. Additionally, Anoldlion didn't say he knew the guy, that he simply read about it, so how would Anoldlion know what ever happened unless it's an active thread somewhere of which I would like to see how things progressed myself.

That statement that you quoted was just my assessment and opinion on the dude's prognosis. He has to be in his 50s or maybe even 60 and just got this shit sandwich. Very hard to come back from, just like in A1's case. However, unlike A1 who is showing the ability to move on, this guy seems stuck on putting up with staying with her. A bad result IMO but potentially understandable to some degree

Something I was just thinking about, AO. By now, the community is probably buzzing with rumors about your situation. I know how bad gossipy church ladies can be! It's obviously nobody's business, and it doesn't matter what people think of course. But have you made some kind of public announcement about being separated and moving towards divorce? Do your friends and family know?

The only reason I bring this up is that it might be in your best interest to get out in front of the rumor train and stop it dead in it's tracks. I'm not saying throw WW under the bus and tell everyone the terrible truth. Maybe just a PG version that doesn't necessarily bring up the infidelity, but doesn't implicate you as the bad guy.

Wow this thread has gotten off course, the debate of the merits between R & D should be discussed elsewhere... poor A1's thread has been hijacked with opinions on his wife and position to R or D... just wish the man well in his resolve to find a path... in the end it is about what he wants.

cheers A1, i hope all is going well.

AO,

Got a mental health suggestion for you. If you like stand up comedy and have Netflix.

Ryan Hamilton. Super funny. Very clean. Does not get into divorce or anything heavy. Just everyday comedy. Get a few laughs.

"She had no guilt because she “deserved to be happy and get the most out of life.”

That's scarily almost the exact words my ex used when giving her reasoning. Eeek!

"She is concerned that I am going to dismiss the entire marriage as a waste of time or a mistake."

I agree that it's a valid concern. I had to do something similar for myself and realize that it wasn't all a waste. I too have a couple great kids out of the deal. :)

"...with no alimony."

Excellent! With alimony there's never a clean break from the offender. You're wise to go with the lump sum option.

I'm glad to hear that you're doing well. I wish you continued success and healing.

I have been following this thread for a while and one thing is for sure,it is all about your wife and what she wants,needs,wishes.

People,cheating is not mistake and especially not in this case. She cheated for years and years,lied about it even more. She planned another life with OM!!! OP is plan B simple as that. If you think otherwise you are lying to yourself.

She didnt even think about OP or their daughters,family,friends... It was and still is about her.

Ofc. she wants to stay married at this point. She is probably around 45-50,not getting younger,got a nice house,good money,clothes and put some holidays in it. Every one of us wants that,right???

On the other hand what does OP got ??? Pain and more pain. His marriage for the last 10-20 years have been a big lie.

I really belive it is time for you to find some happines and comfort. There is lots of good women out there trust me.

Good luck.

I don’t think I could ever enter a new relationship with the proverbial clean slate. I would always second guess my partners feelings and actions. Her actions would continue to haunt me and invalidate any positive experiences. The only way to reduce the risk of future betrayal to zero is to avoid romantic relationships, with WW and all women.

AO - considering the absolute hell you've been put through by your WW, your feelings about entering new relationships are entirely normal and will persist for a while. However, as time goes by, if you take good care of yourself emotionally and physically, you will surely heal. Being the successful, confident man that you are, which is evident from the stoic way you've handled yourself so far, the chances are great that you will meet a woman who has the same impeccable integrity as you have, someone who will make your doubts vanish. You deserve nothing less. Best wishes!