SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What kind of pseudo-mental-gymnastic-gibberish is this shit?

Exactly.

The reality. She met and caught the eye of a rich guy who paid attention to her. She enjoyed it. She started fucking him and living a fantasy life with him. She enjoyed it, so she kept doing it until they were busted. Now, she's trying to figure out how to avoid dealing with the repercussions of her choices, so she is trying to control you with mushroom management.*

*Mushroom management: Keep 'em in the dark and feed 'em a bunch of shit.

Oh fun! Time to parse an email.

AHGuy, Me too now I know a lot more about you and your feelings that I did before reading your email. I read it 4 times already and cried every time, I tried to respond but after I read my draft I just couldn’t send it to you because I know in advance it wouldn’t be to your satisfaction, I know in advance that whatever I say or write to you would not be enough to make you feel any better.

She refuses to actually try hard to write something that might make you feel better or give you reassurances.

This time I decided to not read what I’m about to write I’m just going to send it after I’m done.

So here is some word vommit.

You asked why I had an affair my answer is so simple, I drifted away from Jesus Christ and decided to steer my way on my own and failed miserably. How can I fix it? Simply to give back the steering wheel to Jesus. I lied to you to my kids to everyone even to myself, and I hurt all of us.

She lacks introspection and refuses to actually tell you what her feelings were.

You described it the best when you said that I shot you with a revolver in a chest while enjoying it. Although I think what I was doing is I was having too much fun aiming at paper target thinking I wouldn’t hurt anyone just to realize that you were standing right behind my paper target, my fun bullets went through the papers into your chest. I knew all along you were there behind my paper target but convinced myself I wouldn’t get you, because we’ve ignored each other for so long that I forgot where you were standing.

She blame shifts half to you here with saying you were ignoring each other. As though that gives her a right to shoot you, which here, she admits ignoring the pain she KNEW she would cause you. In all the ignoring you ever did, I doubt you chose to intentionally cause her pain and ignore the pain you were causing.

You said I should’ve shouted at you that You were losing me and should’ve ended our marriage before starting a new relationship. You are right! I should have and I did shout at you many times and begged you too, I told you our marriage was in trouble didn’t I? but you disagreed and I honestly thought you didn’t care at that time, only seeing you in pain now made me realize that you care.

More blame shifting. She didn't say "fix this or bust". She said, "hey we have problems", you disagreed, and then she cheated on you instead of being persistent. She didn't clarify with you that you did care.

but that’s not what this email is about. True, I should have ended my marriage before starting a new relationship, but I never wanted to do neither.

Classic cheater mentality. She wants to have her cake and eat it too!

I know you don’t believe me, but the truth is even when I resented you, I never stopped loving you and never could get myself to leave you.

Must have cake.

Before you say it, I know that I was selfish for thinking I could keep both lives going parallel, I was stupid for falling for it, I realize now That I was wrong about you, and that I took you for granted and didn’t appreciate you.

But I REALLY wanted to eat it too.

I really suggest you open your heart to “Pastor” he is a wise man; he opened my eyes to understand your ways of expressing love, I was really blind and unappreciative to you Andy. I acted like an addicted and entitled teenager and to be honest with you I’m still struggling to get over the whole situation and would love the support you have always provided. However, I wish one day you would realize your part of what went wrong too.

Everything before however is BS. Everything after is blame shifting.

You said that I went out of my way to humiliate you, again I’m so sorry you feel that way, I hope you realize that you are too good of a man to be humiliated, No one knows you more than me no one now what kind of man you are more than me. Like I wrote above I was stupid to aim at a paper target knowing you were right behind it.

This I believe. She didn't mean to humiliate you. She didn't even think about your pain during the affair. It didn't even compute that she was humiliating you.

My Affair was never about you or anyone else, it started from a platonic friendship and escalated to full Affair in a matter of few months. I’m ashamed to admit that I didn’t even consider you or the kids during that time. I managed to live two separate lives suppressing any feeling of guilt. Don’t get me wrong I knew what I was doing and tried to end it many times but like a drug addict I was too week to stop it. It wasn’t about the sex or replacing you, it wasn’t about him either. I don’t know exactly what it was about, hopefully I can find out.

This is a better admission than straying from Jesus. She has connected some dots about her decisions being wrong and out of control.

But one thing for sure you are a complete man, there was nothing about you that made me betray you. From sexuality standpoint, if that’s your concern, you are much superior.

You said that I gave him what was precious to us and that I dressed up for him, thought about what I could do for him and that I did things for him, emotionally, romantically, sexually that I never did for you. Yes I did all that and to be honest reading it the way you wrote it made me hate myself more. I wish I could change that, there is no excuse or debate about how wrong I was.

It's so cute, it almost resembles remorse. Then she drops this big fat deuce on your chest.

The only thing I want to add and please do not take it the wrong way I’m just stating the truth, you did not want any of that, You rejected all my intimacies you cared less if I dressed sexy or not, before reading your email I was convinced that you didn’t want anything like that from me. Correct me if I’m wrong. He, in the other hand appreciated that part of my femininity and valued it more and I blindly fell for it.

Ah, yes, more blame shifting. You didn't want to have intimate sexy time with me! I'd suggest you correct her that she is wrong.

I’m not arguing that I was wrong for allowing him that. All I want is a chance to let you have my femininity for you only.

You said that I would not do the hard work to win you back and it would be better for me to go be with him.

You are probably right.

I say why don’t you try me? That’s all I’m asking for, one chance or even half of a chance. I know you don’t believe it but I never wanted to be with him, all the messages you read were a pack of lies that we exchanged. I don’t care about his money. I know more than anyone else that money will not buy happiness.

Basically no way to tell if this is true or not.

The happiest I’ve been was when we had no money living in a one-bedroom apartment with an infant. I would give everything I have to re-live one of those days. I remember how scared we were when we were pregnant but once we had Emily we never looked back. It wasn’t about his money believe me, thank god we have more than enough. Why I would want to do the hard work? Because I owe it to you, to the kids and also to myself.

Here she says she will do the hard work, but wait...

And I understand that you need time to accept me and my mistakes. But like I promised before I would do anything to make it right.

She has a fundamental misunderstanding here. For R, you do need to accept her, as a person. You do not have to accept her poor decisions. You have to know how and why they happened. Her list at the end is pretty good.

See if she would add, "Complete written timeline of the affair and polygraph to confirm".

All I’m asking is to try me,

You asked why I haven’t ended communication with him, I did I swear and blocked him. Last thing he heard from me was that I would put a restraining order if he ever contact me. Here is the number his wife asked for 804******, even if you left me I wouldn’t reach him because I have caused too much damages to his wife and kids already. If I can ask you a favor, I would love to talk to her and apologize to her in person, I would let her say whatever she wants and will answer any question she might have.

Sure why not, as long as you don't think the OBS will shoot her dead.

You said that I’m not remorseful but just regret being caught and want to save face in front of our family. You are correct about wanting to save face, but that’s not all. I want to do what’s right period. And what’s right is to save marriage and be the best wife and mother I can be, I’m educating myself about what a remorseful spouse should do and how to act and how a mother should behave in front of her children.

By doing what exactly? Hopefully reading something like "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair".

Things I did so far to make myself ready:

1- I ‘m giving my life back to my saver Jesus Christ.

2- I ended the affair.

3- I’m actively looking for not just a new job but a new carrier

4- I’m in counseling

5- I’m willing to give you access to my phone, computer, tablet, emails and everything you might want.

6- I’m letting know where I’m everytime I leave our house and willing to let you GPS my car if you want to. And

7- Most importantly, my to do sheet is available for you to add anything you think necessary.

I’m glad you’re opening up to me, reading your email was painful at times but at the end it’s giving me a glimpse of hope. Please know That I’m here for you should you need me, Again I know you don’t believe anything I say or write but I’m going to say it anyway, I LOVE YOU.

Not a terrible list. If her letter was just an apology for being a liar and a cheater. Promising to work on herself to make herself a better wife and safe partner, then this list, it would have been pretty good.

With all of the blame shifting currently still there, I'd be concerned. You need to let her know you are not going to take ANY amount of blame with respect to her decision to cheat. Yes, both people contribute to the quality of the relationship, but the decision to cheat is just like the decision to get a divorce. It's completely one sided. The other person has no say. The respectful thing to do when a relationship goes south is to make a DIFFERENT unilateral decision than to cheat.

I'm wondering way you find it so difficult to tell your wife that you see you didn't give her the support she wished for.

Probably because it's a bullshit excuse, as witnessed by her line which read "would love to have the support you always provided".

There are lots of choices one can make when dealing with a spouse who isn't paying enough attention, but cheating is not a legitimate choice in that decision tree. And I don't see this as some kind of male stubbornness. If AH pops in and claims responsibility for the cheating, his WW won't ever bother to fix what's wrong in her character which allowed her to select cheating as a legitimate choice.

No one wants to spend the rest of their lives doing the "pick-me polka" because their spouse doesn't have enough integrity to keep their pants on if they're not constantly and sufficiently pacified. It's better to be married to an ADULT, one who is self-fruitful in matters of contentment, rather than married to a bottomless pit of neediness. In the first instance, there's healthy sharing. In the next, it's codependency at best and sacrificing oneself to an emotional vampire at worst.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 5:10 PM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

Now I know why I try to stay away from the JFO forum.

Westway you crack me up

What? What the??? What kind of pseudo-mental-gymnastic-gibberish is this shit?

AH how are you doing how R U?

Buffer

[This message edited by Buffer at 6:13 PM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

*Mushroom management: Keep 'em in the dark and feed 'em a bunch of shit.

OMG!!!! BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

That is unbelievably funny.

AH how are you doing how R U?

Confused, but feeling much better than yesterday. I'm home now, in my basement room. earlier I had an interesting conversation with my daughter, her mom told her about the emails. I told her I didn't want her to get involved between us. she was crying. my daughter is by the way very upset with her mom and she is very supportive of me she has been calling me everyday at least once to check on me, but today she called to see if I could consider forgiving her mom. I explained to her that her mom is not showing any remorse and still blame shifting. and asked her honest opinion about me as husband. she told me I could be hard sometimes that I lack the skills to deal with women but that I had other qualities she wished her fiancee had, she believe her mom was cruel to me and her affair was unjustified.

I was honest with her and told her that I consulted a lawyer, she Thought I would and was surprised I hadn't filed already, but begged me to wait at least 2 months and promised that if I decided to go that rote she would make sure her mom would make it easier on me. she also want me to start talking to her mom.

somehow I felt better after that conversation. we'll see

In the end, you need to do what is best FOR YOU!

Good luck

Stay strong

If you ever go down the reconciliation path here one thing I would find out is how far did this Affair go in the planning to leave stage. Has she already talked to an attorney for example? Did they look at houses together? That kind of thing. She says she was never going to leave you, she told the POSOM they were going to be together when your youngest was out of the house. She tells you that was BS. I'd be willing to bet it was further along in the planning than she is admitting and I would want to know how far. I think you'll find that the plans were very far along and you finding out and the AP tossing her overboard is the reason she is revising this history.

I would not suggest waiting months to file for divorce. You need to make it real for her now, and take control. Keeping your distance and emotionally separating, as you have been doing, is the best thing to do right now. You are trying to make sense of your new reality and you do not need her manipulation attempts adding to the confusion. If she needs support, she can find a counselor as you have asked her to do. She does not need to talk to you to further unload her guilt or try to convince you to take some blame. She has had all the control for TWO YEARS and she doesn't want to give it up. If she is actually remorseful, she will follow your lead. So far, that's not what she's doing.

She created this mess and if she cannot even be patient while you do not want to speak to her, it does not give you any reason to think she will be a candidate for real R. I'm sure you know this. Stay the course, ignore her and find a lawyer. You need to see her ACTIONS over time to make a final decision about whether to complete the D or not. Nothing she can say at this point means anything.

[This message edited by clouds777 at 8:06 PM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

I was honest with her and told her that I consulted a lawyer, she Thought I would and was surprised I hadn't filed already, but begged me to wait at least 2 months and promised that if I decided to go that rote she would make sure her mom would make it easier on me. she also want me to start talking to her mom.

somehow I felt better after that conversation.

It's good that your daughter is supporting you and of course she's still trying to keep the family together, tell her you could still file for D, that it takes a long time and your WW could prove herself during and after the process, that could decide to R before the D it's final, within a year after the D is final or never, that at this point you can't make any promises.

Now if you want to please your daughter and wait a couple of months to file, that's fine too, it's your life and your decision, if that's the case tell your WW you don't want to stop the whole process and that you at least want to start with a separation of assets agreement just in case(ask the lawyer and see if a postnup in your favor is enforceable in your state), in the great scheme of things a couple of months is not a long time and you can still go ahead and file after that, if you choose to go this route, again please make sure you have the VARs in place, have the tough conversations with your WW (make a list of questions), demand she gets tested for STDs and show you the results (you should too), insist on a complete and detailed written timeline of the LTA subject to a polygraph and if there had been other OMs and/or close calls during your M, tell her to send and NC FOREVER text to OM and cheerleader business partner and tell her she has to resign and find another job (real estate agents can easily find another firm to work for while she finds/gets trained for a different career), anyway you don't want to be the joke at the next office Christmas party or office gathering (make sure you tell her this).

Did you ask your daughter what she would do if she found out her fiancé/husband was having a long term affair and was placing the blame of the affair on her?

She is your daughter and she, like every child, young or adult, wants their parents to stay together. But i don’t believe anyone truly understands what it is like to have a cheating spouse unless you have a cheating spouse

[This message edited by Newlifeisgreat at 8:19 PM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

My kids are young adults too. And it's really hard to keep them from getting into your business in this kind of conflict. They have a vested interest in their parents' happiness, but no understanding whatsoever of just how egregious the injury is. It's not just that they're under 25 and haven't reached full maturity of the prefrontal cortex either. It's the same as everyone else who hasn't experienced this kind of intimate betrayal. They can sympathize, but they really don't understand it.

It's good that they come and talk to you, but you'll want to continue reminding them that this is between their mother and you, and that you'll make your own decisions about what you can live with. Youngsters, as you know, take on an out-sized role as mediators when they can, but the downside is that we don't want them feeling responsible or thinking they made mistakes. It's a control mechanism and they're just not emotionally ready for that kind of responsibility.

In terms of your daughter's advice to wait two months... look up the word "condonation" in association with your state's divorce laws to find out if that two months will cost you. In some states, continued cohabitation is viewed as condonation and will take adultery as grounds off the table. This could be an important bargaining tool in keeping your business, so you might consider another consult with your attorney.

In reference to her other advice about talking to her mother, I think it largely depends on what you're hoping to achieve. If you're looking for R, certainly it would be required at some point to open that door. But if you're looking for D, I'd tell her to help herself to my email address and keep a nice, fat paper trail of whatever admissions she makes.

I reached this fork in the road as well. Do I give up filing on grounds in order to see if there's a chance of R, or do I press forward on D? For me though, there wasn't so much at stake. We'd been married over 30 years. I was going to get half of everything no matter what I decided, including his retirement and likely lifetime alimony. I had the benefit of being able to go either way. You've got more to lose.

AH

Her email was far from perfect but I think that it is actually a good thing. It could mean that she is not trying blowing smoke up your ass and it was the truth about what she is feeling. If you still love her i think that you have something to work with.

I think what your daughter is asking from you is actually good sound advice. Which is to basically take a little more time to make your decision weather or not to divorce your wife.

Regardless of what you decide do not attempt to reconcile anytime soon.

I think you should take the next 2 months and have a series of conversation with your wife. Get yourself a notebook and make a list of the hard questions and conversations you may want to have for her. Listen and watch closely. In 2 months time you should know if you want to give her a second chance and attempt to reconcile. Good luck I hope you can once again find happiness.

[This message edited by Browsing41 at 8:29 PM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

If the email represents her real thoughts — and I think it does — then you don’t have much to work with, but I think you already know that.

I'd be willing to bet it was further along in the planning than she is admitting and I would want to know how far. I think you'll find that the plans were very far along and you finding out and the AP tossing her overboard is the reason she is revising this history.

I’d be willing to bet this is the case too. Don’t miss this. a polygraph will flush it out.

By the way I’m in the file for D now camp but this is your life not mine. I wish fervently I’d had advice from people telling me to file right after DDAY. It puts you in the driver’s seat and yanks you out of limbo.

Being empowered is liberating. It gives you options. It gives you breathing room. It is clarifying. You will know even better with bright shining clarity just what kind of person you wife is after filing.

Think about it.

Good Evening AH

Glad you are feeling better tonight and maybe you can sleep.

Confused, but feeling much better than yesterday. I'm home now, in my basement room. earlier I had an interesting conversation with my daughter, her mom told her about the emails. I told her I didn't want her to get involved between us. she was crying.

Your wife is really trying to hoover you in, that is OK IMO, but she has to find a better way than your daughter. Expecting a child of yours to take her side has too much potential for adding to this FUBAR situation your wife has made.

she is very supportive of me she has been calling me everyday

You are a lucky man to have such a fine daughter, this shows how good a father you are. You should be proud.

I was honest with her and told her that I consulted a lawyer, she Thought I would and was surprised I hadn't filed already, but begged me to wait at least 2 months and promised that if I decided to go that rote she would make sure her mom would make it easier on me. she also want me to start talking to her mom.

Maybe your wife would sign a separation agreement now, that would hold off a divorce for two months in trade for saving your business and property. You might have to promise some counseling on your terms in trade. Some quality infidelity and trauma counseling for both of you would be good no matter the outcome. This should be IC not MC.

You really need a good attorney or TWO to protect yourself, your business and other families. Your daughter is basically telling you Mom would be kind in a divorce, if she can just try to save the marriage. Put it on quality legal paper, do not let your daughter enforce an amicable divorce!

Do not underestimate the value of good legal representation. My use of a simple attorney friend, cost me real money. My Ex spent exactly 10X more then me and cleaned up on amazing BS lawsuits. All started out with "we should do this amicably", "we can be friends" ruse.

Thank you to ChamomileTea for "condonation", each state has different and goofy laws. Man did I learn some legal language the hard way.

Good Night AH

Sleep Well

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 12:00 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]

Look brother the reality is that you have been her other man for the last two years! As you said it that pre affair you were having sex 3 times a week which dwindled to twice a month. So effectively she just did that so you wouldn’t suspect a thing. You seem to be a solid dependable guy and that’s why you didn’t. Unless she works on herself there is no getting back from this. Jesus is of no help no matter how much she wishes it to go away. Frankly she is not remorseful, just regrets that she got busted. And if he was able to reel her back in once he is sure as hell going to try again because that’s how he wired to be. And there is a big chance that flattered by his attention she will go back. Her excuse will be that you were not forgiving enough and he showed her affection in this tough time.

You don’t have to divorce her but you must be the first to serve her cos she sure as hell won’t lose that opportunity if she wants out first. We

AH

Some people can R, others cant, and has nothing to do with being Brave or weak. It is just the way each one of us ir wired.

You need to think in the guy you see in the mirror each mourning and what can he bate to love with.

Aldo, you need to think the example you give your kids.it may shape their perception on what a healty marriage looks like, if cheatibg is not a Big deal and should be forgive ( if they cheat or get cheated on)

IMO, you should give the 2 months period of grace , as long as there isnt any legal repercution on D, but under your own terms. Following some ideas:

Your WW must not quit her job and change carrers for the moment. Her income lack or reduction Will have a great impact in alimoney

Start D, as this is a process that can be stopped anybtime. Also It Will show her true color if she wants you or just save face. Also you can be talking as long as the D goes smooth, if not talking time is Up

Set rules for Talking abiut A (1 hour at nigth each day)

Set rules for other contacts, so you can keep 180 on (remember It is for you to detach, not to affect her)

A detailed timeline of tha affair, including feelings, planning, badmouthing you instances (to OM or any others), making fun of you instances. Leer her know that you Will ask question bases on the time línea and expect the truth.

If she would be willing to take a Poly test to verify her statements:previous affairs, others OMs, sexual activites denied to you , if treesomes took place, if swinguing took place (sorry but you dont know her rigth now) leaving you, making fun of you, etc

No pastors MC, as It is meant to save the marrriageand ar this point you need to decide on that, or at least ser if is un you, bases on your WW bahavior, any chance of cheatibg your mind.

STD test

List of gifts and mementos that may be arround your House, clothes he bougth her, necklace, etc.

Submit to you any more evidencie she hace. Pics toguether, videos, letters, etc. You nay share them with OMW

No socialization as a couple. You nay feel humilated, as you dont know for aire Who else know: the enabler coworker may have told other person, a picture of OM and WW could hace been shared on FB, people that Saw them toguether, and even OMwife badmouthing or expossibg your wifes A to others out if anger.

IMPORTANT, always Carry a VAR with your while talking to her, last thing you need is a false DV charge.

There are many other things, but I guess you hoy the idea.

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 3:00 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]

hi AHGuy

i have a question btw i did not read other memebers replies.

she said that you never wanted things that she did with OM.

is it true??

because in your first you post you wrote about her naked pictures for OM and she never let you did it.

did you talk about this with her that you did wanted this???

She is still in a little bit fog where she thinks

that OM appreciated her blah blah

Your daughter sounds like a level headed young woman and you'r lucky to have her there for you.

Just wondered if she knew about the boiler incident (not suggesting telling if she doesn't).

What has your wife done that is provable. For example, tell her she needs an std test because of his other affairs and the strong possibility she wasn't his only bit on side.

She shows you the results = provable.

Giving her life back to Jesus = unprovable.

Ended the affair, she was busted = doesn't count.

Personally I would see another lawyer to double check on the advice already given, then file.

Let your wife know it can always be stopped.