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Hi W:

Look at the title of your thread!! Consider when you FIRST joined and what you have actually accomplished in less than 2 weeks, and take a deep breath. Grace under pressure is a gross under-statement!

I think I joined SI when you did, so in a way, I feel a strange kinship with your journey through this. This was the first thread I read, and posted on, and I haven't left it yet!

People in this thread, have a considerable amount of insight and perspective, helping navigate a minefield, through your stream of consciousness, so let out your inner-most thoughts in your posts, don't be embarrassed or reserved, I am relying on your candour and this place should be a safe haven!

Glad WW results were negative and hear you on your wishing there were more consequences. Spoiler Alert! Apparently, you are not sharing a bed with her, and you won't be unless until YOU want to, if you ever want to (I get that!).

That is not lost on WW believe me!

I don't know about you but right now I would gnaw off my left arm! And its not because I don't have the desire, its because I can't do it and maintain detachment!

From what I can tell about what you have said about your Girls, your DD's are smart and resourceful young women, going to IC will help ensure they process and as long as they know both Mom and Dad love them and will do anything to help them, they will be fine and I believe they will only continue to thrive. Food for thought, are you going to go to group C with your Girls? Not with WW and you, just you and them?

I always like a success story and it sounds like you are on your way to climbing out of the abyss. Not that you are out, just that you have made a stellar start, as Really Screwed Up pointed out (with thanks ((())))

I can only hope to take a page out of your first book, tell me what would it be entitled? The BS hell exit strategy? You have identified major groups of WS. I guess I have the "flips the BS the bird type" so there's not much chance for R for me...but you are still in the game! And if your perseverance over the past 2 weeks is any indication of how you function while SNAFU'd, and have no strength, think about what you can do as you get stronger!

I am seeing the evolution, just remember what someone said at the beginning dont' try to speed through this, you have done the important preliminary steps, getting things in place and moving through them, but let the process play out according to its timeline, not a self imposed one.

Best to you, and good night.

((((())))))

Want this to stop

Do take

Whallup Said

I'm embarrassed to say this but I wasn't all happy when I saw that text. Somewhere inside I wanted her to have something. Even if it was just a scare. Some kind of divine retribution or even just a slap on the wrist as a consequence of her actions. I know I'm horrible, but I couldn't help it.

One thought is that while I think there is probably a bit of retribution in here I think that a larger part are the consequences. At this point I think that your mind is probably beginning to wrap itself around consequences, a large one in particular. By coming up positive you possessed a more solid “reason” to base a decision on. Or, conversely, by coming up positive she’d be hit with a very large consequence, thus possibly diluting the aggregate amount of consequence that would need to be delivered on whenever the Day of Reckoning is.

(I kind of babbled that out)

Whallup Said

My wife is a very altruistic person and very selfless. Don’t laugh. That was harder for me to write than for you to read. And that’s what really gets me going and boggles my mind – because her behavior was the epitome of selfishness and it is so incongruous with who she is. But maybe I never really knew her.

This sentence only highlights how fucking insanely hard it must have been for your brother to approach you about that. He must have been questioning his own sanity when he saw it, never mind comprehending how the hell that he was going to break it to you.

kimchi said

Please do not take my post negatively. Getting him removed from his position in the charity accomplishes nothing. If I were you, I would really hurt him where it hurts. This isn't enough. Not even close.

This hurts the shit out of him. Guys like he are balanced by their sense of external affirmation. More than her sex, he craved her adoration. She was so heads-over-heels for him that she didn’t even realize she was prancing around NYC with him as boyfriend and girlfriend in public. He would have rather have had that than two sessions of anal and a blowjob.

Went to IC tonight. Nice guy. He told me he couldn’t care less about my wife. I’m his patient, not her, so he’s all about helping me “deal and heal.”

Did a lot of background stuff. Family, my parents, dad’s early passing, my relationship with my wife, etc. Some exercises on breathing and stuff if my blood pressure gets up too high…

your updates are a lot more angrier and scattered in the last few days….

I can only assume you are in the anger phase now….

Threatening her boss was a bit out of character for you….

Your anger at that moment…

You need a healthy outlet for your anger….

Kimchi – I appreciate your post, but I respectfully disagree. Without looking back at my prior posts, I recall telling my wife to drop dead, called her a bitch numerous times, a whore, a lying sack of shit, and said I wanted to strangle her and pound her face into sand. Coupled together like that and I sound like a monster, but all through this, I think I’ve been pretty consistent.

Look, I’ve been angry since nearly 3 weeks ago when I first found out. I’ve just had all these other emotions overpowering anger – shock, depressions, pain, hurt, betrayal, feeling emasculated, confused, bewildered, lost, scared, I could keep going…the anger was always there. Anger at POS for targeting my wife and anger at my wife for sleeping with another man and for the lies, the betrayal, etc.

If I wasn’t angry, I’d say something was wrong with me – that I’m some sort of unfeeling sociopath devoid of all emotional intelligence. What I do here is vent in what I believe is a safe environment. What can be healthier than that?

And frankly, what did I do that she hasn’t done? By that I mean she wasn’t careful about who knew what at the organization and it’s likely they all knew. So how did I “shame” her?

Finally, to eric1’s point – I do believe I hurt POS by calling the organization, and by calling his wife. Besides hurting him it accomplished 3 other important things: a) Sent him a message that I am not scared of him, nor am I a wimp who will take this lying down. b) It sends that message to my wife – that I will fight back, and that there are consequences beyond just her for her actions. c) It made me feel really, really, good. And the fact that it was at his expense made it all the more sweet.

I think this is all perfectly consistent with my character.

Reallyscrewedup7 – Thanks. Very much appreciated.

Another thing is boundaries. Does your wife routinely talk to people she works with about her M problems like she did OM. Is it possible she was already accustomed to being too open with people. If so thats something she needs to work on and change. The book Not Just Friends explains this well.

Whattheh – I agree wholeheartedly. I presume this is something that will come in MC when/if we get there.

Spoiler Alert! Apparently, you are not sharing a bed with her, and you won't be unless until YOU want to, if you ever want to (I get that!)

Wantthistostop – Thank you so much for such a supportive and uplifting post!

Yeah, I am not sleeping in the bedroom. I’m in the guest suite in the basement. Not that she hasn’t been asking. She did every night. Usually it went something like this: “I’d love it if you came back to our room.” “I’d love it if you hadn’t fucked POS for 3 months.” A few nights of that and I stopped. I was being childish and it didn’t get us anywhere. Now she asks when I think I might want to come back to our room. I simply say I don’t know and she drops it.

Regarding wanting to: (TMI Alert!!! Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!) I really don’t. It’s not a “her” thing. It’s that other than one morning where I woke up with a really full bladder and the resulting effect, I’ve been kinda dead below the waist since I found out. No freaking clue if that’s normal or not. Didn’t come up in IC tonight. Probably should’ve mentioned it. Then again, I’ve been operating on roughly 4 hours a night for close to 3 weeks, and have gone through an emotional roller coaster, so I’m surprised I can still walk and talk, let alone anything requiring more effort than that.

Eric1 – As usual, your post is spot on. Regarding my brother - I’ve actually discussed this with him. I’ve thanked him so many times and commiserated with him. I told him how brave he was. And how much it must’ve killed him. He was concerned I wouldn’t believe him and would hate him for telling me. But we are really close and have been leaning on each other for over 20 years. I told him I love him even more for telling me cause I know how difficult it must’ve been.

One other thing - I agree with wantthistostop. When I stop for a moment and consider where I am today vs. when I first showed up her 2 weeks ago. It boggles my mind. I was so lost and scared and hurting. I am still hurting like you couldn't believe (well…maybe you could) and am scared of the future, but I'm no longer lost. I have an action plan, checklists, notions of what I want and things to look out for. I know there's a tremendous amount of pain and hurt coming my way, but I know what that looks like now. I can prepare for it to a degree. I feel so much more in control of this small piece and I can't imagine what I would have done had my brother not told me about this place and had you all not been here for me with your support, caring, advice and guidance. You all are a Godsend. Thank you.

Did you ask your doc about something to help you sleep ?

Just tell me this: do you believe me when I tell you that she's lying about pretty much everything?

Just tell me this: do you believe me when I tell you that she's lying about pretty much everything?

theDrifter - No. Sorry, but I don't. Do I think she's lying about some things? Probably. Intentionally? Probably. Unintentionally? Probably. Omitting? Minimizing? Convincing herself otherwise? Probably. But to coldly lie about everything? You'd have to be a special type of evil IMO and a real cold hearted bitch to do that. Especially in the face of her seeing what she's done to me and the impact on our girls. Sorry - I don't buy it. If she was acting defiant or angry or self-righteous, then yes. I could see it then. But based on how she's responding? Either she's a better actress than Meryl Streep or she's certifiable.

Make sure you take care of yourself. See an MD for your issues. It does happen with all this mess.

I would ask if she wants out but does not want to be the one to do it.

It will be an emotional weekend.

I also don't believe she is lying about everything. Some people just can't help projecting their own experiences onto someone else.

Anyway, the overall content of her words and actions combined make her credible. While the capability of a WW to lie when caught is mind boggling, this is one I would be willing to bet on.

The thing to keep in mind is that often a WW will either shade things or withhold a little of the worst thinking that she is sparing her BH from further pain (and herself from potentially worse consequences). Not an outright lie but not the whole truth. Typically I would expect that to happen here since it is still just 3 weeks out from DDay. What makes me think it won't ( or at least will be very minimal) is that Mrs Walloped has voluntarily admitted some pretty tough things including disclosure to her daughters. Also, Walloped has made it abundantly clear what the consequences of lying or TT will be so the fear factor should be present.

Walloped, everyone here will be thinking about you this weekend and hoping she continues on a course of truth, humility and remorse as you go through the timeline and your questions.

caught but flips the BS the bird and wants out type.”

Walloped - I see you've met my husband then, have you?

Ok - SO glad her tests were negative. Someday you'll be really glad too, without even the tiniest bit of wishing otherwise.

Sounds like IC went well and this guy has a good head on his shoulders. I find it helpful to take a list with me to IC of topics I want to discuss in the order of importance so I get the most pressing things addressed right away.

As for the lack of sex drive....I'm sure it's temporary. Your whole world just got turned upside down. You're trying to survive. Sex is pretty far down on the priority list right now.

Also, no one here thinks you are a moron. What we know for sure is that your wife is a liar and a cheater, and we will most likely play the role of devil's advocate for a very long time. Working through this shit is exhausting, and we want to make sure there are no shortcuts being taken along the way, because that's not good for you or your wife whether you R or not. Your situation is moving along rapidly, so we are being cautious on your behalf...just in case you get tired and careless somewhere along the way. It happens to all of us.

You are doing well.. Keep it up.

My wife is a very altruistic person and very selfless. Don’t laugh. That was harder for me to write than for you to read. And that’s what really gets me going and boggles my mind – because her behavior was the epitome of selfishness and it is so incongruous with who she is. But maybe I never really knew her. And then I spiral downward.

I think you have this upside down and that's why you have trouble understanding your wife.

POS seems to be a very experienced predator and this is why he homed in on your wife. The type of woman your wife is is exactly what a player will look for as an easy prey. Women in the healthcare industry, ie nurses, homecare providers, volunteer workers, all have common traits, altruism and selflessness, (altruistic: unselfishly concerned for or devoted to the welfare of others). These women are givers. They will unselfishly give their time and energy (and more) for others. They are empathetic and will psychologically identify with the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of others. What better victims could you find?

Second aspect: Experience of life and sexual experience. The above women have the required traits for POS to joyfully ensnare them in his trap; however, if a woman has a good experience of life and a significant sexual experience, she can see POS coming at her from a mile away and likely turn him down if she isn't interested in an affair. Conversely, a woman who has little or no sexual experience (other than with her husband) will not see POS around her as a lurking predator, but will only see him as a good and generous person, like herself. (You did mention that your wife sees the world around her as basically good). An analogy to this would be 2 people, on an ocean side beach, swimming in 3 feet of water. The first person knows she is in shark infested waters and keeps an eye opened for sharks. The second has no clue as to the presence of sharks and swims joyfully without any care in the world. Guess who has the better chance of becoming the shark's dinner?

With these elements assembled, the POS shark zoomed in on your wife. She was known as Mother Theresa and what better trophy to be had than the trophy for fucking good old, generous and selfless Mother Theresa. He started by giving her the attention, the smiles and talking to her like she was the most interesting and fascinating woman he had ever met. Gradually, he went from the attention and the smiles to the compliments and the light touches. He then went on to the light hugs, and then to the bigger, more stimulating hugs. Your wife opened the "my husband is not helping enough in the preparations for my daughter's wedding" box. POS then saw a 10 foot wide opening which he promptly exploited. From big hugs, he went to light kisses, then to bigger kisses. At that point, your wife was totally seduced. Her hormones were kicking in at full speed and she likely didn't know (or care) what would happen next. In simplified medical lingo, the hormones rechannelled her blood to the reproductive parts of her body and left only a minimal amount of blood flowing to the brain. POS then invited her to his appartment. In her altruism and selflessness, she was more than happy to make POS happy, and they had sex. When she returned home and her normal blood flow was restored, she then knew she had done something bad and proceeded to scrub herself with vengeance. In her mind, she probably thought that she could put an end to this, little did she know that she had been seduced and was now totally his.

From then on, no matter how much she promised herself she would never be having sex with POS again when she was leaving your home to go volunteering, when she stood in front of him, she would literally melt before him. You weren't even part of her thought process. Her body would crave his body and she would even suggest going to his appartment to have sex, and it made her happy to make him happy. Contrary to what you think, she was not being selfish, she was being selfless, just not to her husband. She wasn't being selfish to you, you just weren't anywhere in her mind. Not enough blood was flowing to her brain to have the slightest thought for her hubby. Sad, but that's what a million years of evolution has done to us humans, and it seems to work well, because there are over 7 billions of us, homo sapiens, on the planet.

In closing, there is one thing that keeps popping up in my mind. The way Mrs La-di-dah reacted to your questions, I wouldn't be surprised that there might have even been a bet on between Mrs La-di-dah and POS as to whether or not POS could seduce your wife.

PS1: Make sure there is no contact between your wife and POS. He could lie and seduce her faster than you can blink.

PS2: Is there any chance your wife could be pregnant or has that fear been set aside?

PS3: I sincerely think your wife deserves another chance. I think you should take your time. Give yourself 3 to 6 months to cover all possibilities of TT. Let her sweat it out. You could get her to agree on a postnup favorable to you and assorted goodies you might want to have. Do not present it as forgiveness, but simply as giving another chance. Take care.

[This message edited by marbou888 at 1:28 AM, August 21st (Friday)]

Just one BH's opinion. You're doing better than fine for 3 weeks. I suspect the roller coaster will continue for some time, so be ready. Hard for anyone in SI Land to know, but it sounds like there is good potential for R. The standard emotions will intervene but I applaud you sir, for keeping your head as well as you have. Stay strong brother.

I am truly amazed how much this post, from beginning to now, has helped me. So many opinions - where else could you acquire this?

Just my short version - My X was always a people-pleaser, especially to his parents. He was the "good boy" - the Golden Boy in the family - the oldest. A lot of expectations on him. He was very responsible and drove grain trucks at 9 yrs old for his dad and came home to play piano for his mom. A hard worker and, I just remember him always saying...I just want to please my folks.

So, he did. Got successful and heady about it.

When I try to rationalize it, the last thing anybody thought this man would do - have a 3 yr affair and destroy a 35 yr marriage - well, I think he was ALL DONE pleasing his folks and everybody else. (in his mind)

A very nice man but he once said, in a scary way...I have a dark side. Years ago. Boy, did that ever come true.

He has lost everything he built with his reputation and, yes, everybody is now disappointed in him. But I wonder, if he had been allowed to be a less-than-perfect-guy to his upbringing that it might not of happened. But, I think it may caused his 'throw-it-to-the-wind, and at 60 yrs old..sigh.

FWIW

W, ­

I am glad that your IC went well.­

I was thinking over one of your last pos­t about your WW shaming herself at the v­olunteering place not hiding her relatio­n, there are 5 points that together got ­me thinking that she was into an exit af­fair:

1.- What does it mean that she wasn’t hi­ding it?, I mean to what level, kissing ­in front of others? Leaving together to ­his place and co-volunteers covering up ­for them. Even your Brother caught them ­holding hands it was at a public place. ­If I am right you posted before that thi­s was something that not brother had dis­covered other person would. ?

IMO she was screaming at lout their love­ to the whole word

2.- The above plus her reaction to OM th­e few days after Dday, until she saw you­ in pain, talking to your SIL that she d­idn’t understand her special relation wi­th OM…

She was/is in love with OM­

3.- Her statement that she has been self­ish and now she knows that she needs to ­stop focusing about her and focus on fam­ily and you.

She was burring her feelings for OM in o­rder to save her way of life after knowi­ng that OM was a peace of shit.

4.- She used you as an excuse to having ­an affair, she also pointed out that her­ affair was not a mistake, was a decisio­n she made.

She was aware of what she was doing.­

5.- ­She pursuing sexual encounters, if it wa­s just about attention she would have be­en accepting OM sexual advances to get a­ttention not pursuing it, and more since­ she was aware of everything. ­

She was/is in love with OM­

IMO before knowing that OM was a peace o­f shit she was trying to decide if a lif­e with OM would be for real and then she­ saw you ion pain and start to realize t­he destruction she has done.

Besides the if question that everybody s­uggested, “What would happen if OM was f­or real and not a POS ?”, you should als­o ask her “What would happen if you (W) ­and your kids were OK with it?”. IMO she­ thought that it was not a big deal as s­he was not in love with you and probably­ you neither, and that the kids will be ­just fine with her pursuing real love.

Besides the questions about your WW bein­g in love with OM, missing him, grieving­ for the lost of their relation. You sho­uld also ask her if she thought she love­d him at that moment as the first questi­on will be answered with what she thinks­ and thinks she must feel right now. Als­o ask her if she has resentment for you ­exposing OM and asking her for NC (I bet­ she says that now she doesn’t but ask h­er at the moment after you asked for NC)

She, being a proven layer, never denied ­or minimized contact with OM after DDay,­ I may looks like she was getting courag­e to let you know she was not in love wi­th you anymore.

Be careful with her answers, explain her­ that wanting to be in love is not that ­same as being in love, and as you know y­ou can stop loving someone and start lov­ing other one like a switch.

In a nut shell You need to ask her if yo­u are plan B, her safe net when Plan A f­ailed. IMO this is important because if ­you are Plan B there is always a Plan A ­out there and maybe next time will be a ­fine gentleman.

I didn’t mean to hurt you or lead you to­ D, I am just trying to give you angles ­to see the whole pic.

Other think, try to keep your cool while­ talking to her, she needs to feel save ­to express what she really what to say. ­Also think at the follow idea, this is b­ased on my experience and unfortunately ­works as IMO is the fundamental of the 1­80 technique: THE OPOSITE OF LOVE IS NOT­ HATE IS INDIFERENCE, the most you wife ­see you having fun with your kids and br­other, being relatively normal around th­e house she is being hurt of what she is­ missing (even she was very eager to des­troy it) and that hurt the most is that ­she is no longer a needed peace of it to­ her family be happy. This apply as well­ for talk about the time line, if you ke­ep your cool about it she at the beginni­ng will feel safe and thanked to see th­at she can say it all…with the time will­ realize that your lack of emotion is no­t about what she did but about her and i­t will hurt her like hell…IMO you have b­eing already implementing a kind of 180 ­technique that at this point is helpful ­as you haven decide if R or D, but as ha­s been said many times at SI and other w­ebs, in order to save your marriage you ­will be willing to lose it. Make her cle­ar that you will survive and be happy wi­thout her no matter what, that she took ­you for granted thinking that you will n­ever leave her if find out (if not why s­he was aware of your agreement about aff­airs and still in eagerly participating ­in one if not as an exit affair, contrad­iction point if come out while talking t­o her ) and that is not the case anymore­ if ever was.

Other thing, about your kids. IMO you s­hould discuss what you and she tell your­ kids if they ask, not just about D but ­how she and you feel for each other. You­r kids don’t need to have false hopes be­cause your wife says that she loves you ­and will try everything to save her marr­iage when maybe she just want, and tr6y ­really hard, to be in love with you but ­still misses OM or just wants out.

Last thing, you know that here, at SI, y­ou can vent and update anything and anyt­ime but if you feel like you need a brea­k because we are making you paranoid, ju­st do it. As I said before most of us ta­lk from the pain and as much as our expe­rience helps you (especially at this mom­ent) don’t let our words hold you back.

Sorry for the long post and not being cl­ear, English is not my first language.

Good luck.­

Jesus Marbou888 this isn't some movie plot written for the Lifetime network. It's a dumb, typical affair. Two people meet, start exciting covert relationship, get physical, fall in love, get caught.

If it went six months longer then we would have gotten the "I Love You But I Don't Really Love You Speech" and likely some form of detachment from W's wife (further emotional distance, anger over small things, etc). Then who knows what. All the signs of it being typical are here and at this point the only point in discussing it is to get it all on the table now so Whallup can move forward. He cannot move forward playing these What If games for the rest of his life. Sucks, but all those need to get on the table now.

And the Charity boss was complicit in this by only allowing it to happen (which is still really bad). Her and the others probably gossiped about it and laughed about how obvious it was. Real fucking funny, huh.

Getting back to the big picture, you have never heard of Occum's Razor have you?

eric 1,

I totally agree with you about the if questions, butbthey play a role to determine if W is Plan B, the back up plan, or if she really stil loves him.

Walloped

I mentioned it previously. I read your thread in one go. I even sent the link the thread to a couple of guys with cheating wives impressed with how beautifully you were handling it considering the situation.

The primary emotion in your earlier posts was mostly sadness and a feeling of loss. Anger was there but it was much lesser than your most recent posts.

And frankly, what did I do that she hasn’t done? By that I mean she wasn’t careful about who knew what at the organization and it’s likely they all knew. So how did I “shame” her?

Again. She deserves if you expose her to everyone you or she knows. You decided to not tell the kids for a reason, right ? If you expand on it and if she has to find some work now, the shame she has to feel from facing her former co-workers will be a big issue. She deserves every insult she receives from you but she does not need additional shit from people outside the family that had no relation to the situation. Though it was her reason, the affair related discussions are already making her physically ill. Outsiders judging her situation will make her mental and physical health worse and might affect her ability to work.

I am one of those "Burn those witches" guy in case of cheaters. But even I feel that some of the more recent posts are very very harsh on your wife. Maybe the intention is good and people are preparing you for worse revelations but some of them are very unfair. Even if you divorce her, she will still be a mother to the kids. They need her. From the looks of it, I don't think she has the mental strength to handle this in the long term. If in this process if she breaks down as a person, I don't think it will be any better for you.

Finally, to eric1’s point – I do believe I hurt POS by calling the organization, and by calling his wife. Besides hurting him it accomplished 3 other important things: a) Sent him a message that I am not scared of him, nor am I a wimp who will take this lying down. b) It sends that message to my wife – that I will fight back, and that there are consequences beyond just her for her actions. c) It made me feel really, really, good. And the fact that it was at his expense made it all the more sweet.

I think this is all perfectly consistent with my character

I wasn't attacking you or your character..I apologize if it came across as such.

[This message edited by kimichi at 5:06 AM, August 21st (Friday)]

How i understand you. It seems so unreal sometimes.

But if that just started I think you have good chances to recover. Don't do like me, cheating myself for years...

got ­me thinking that she was into an exit af­fair:

I disagree.

The point of the exit affair is that the WS wants OUT of the marriage, and uses the affair thinking BS will leave them. My WH had an exit affair. Wallped's WW's behavior is the polar opposite of my WH's post DDay.

MrHealed,

I think trying to answer the question if Whallup was her Plan B is kind of like talking about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

The only certainties are

- Whallup was emotionally a secondary to her boyfriend for an undetermined period of time

- If his brother had not caught this affair then it likely would have followed the rest of the Cheater's Handbook. ILYBIDLU and beyond.

- His wife has many admirable qualities and a ton of history, which is going to make this a difficult issue for Whallup to abstract and boil down

- it's the overwhelming likelihood that his wife realizes that she made a mistake by now.

Many men will draw a line at 'being replaced' emotional affairs. Many men will draw the line the moment a penis that is not his going into his wife's vagina. Many men will work for years at reconciliation. Many men will do...nothing. Many men don't have this choice. Many men think they're one type of guy but turns out they're the other. Many men will reconcile because they want to keep a family together. Many men will divorce to teach their kids about self-respect.

At this point, now that a lot of the procedural stuff is done, it's time to start setting up for emotional clarity. That's where all of our biases as Whallup's confidants and advisors will begin to leak through. ONLY a Whallup can answer this question and things such as 'you should reconcile and you'll realize this in six months' or 'she is lying about everything, divorce her now and she'll be back on her cock in 5 minutes' only.

I feel strongly at this point that our role is best served advising Whallup to emotionally prepare for separation. By getting over that, you abstract fear and comfort from the decision. His decision, once he has clarity, comfort and has accepted the realities of all outcomes is to then make his decision based on what is right for him. All of us are different. I suspect that the guy who speaks to him at 3am while staring up at the ceiling already has some strong feelings on this subject.

Anyways, the procedural stuff isn't done yet. This is somewhat putting the cart before the horse. I do post in this thread a lot and do feel I owe it to Whallup to be as clear as possible as to where I'm coming from. I take it as an honor that he's trusted us and do not take this lightly.