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I am so sorry! I just found out a few hours ago I’m in the same boat. Thought we were reconciled and recovered only to be contacted by OBS about a brand new affair. I’ll be saying prayers for you to have strength during this difficult time. I am so thankful for all the women and men here who are able to lift us up when we are at our lowest of lows.

I started dating a man @ 5 years ago and at first he was attracted to me and wanted to be playful and such. Then after a year, he stopped and it was like he suddenly found someone else, although he completely denies it. All the romance stopped - although it was gradual. He slowly stopped kissing me and hugging me (which was scarce to begin with), and if I am near him, he almost jumps like he is startled but then denies that reaction also. He has told me he loves me for the last 5 years, but it all seems so much like just plutonic and not romantic coming from him. I am so heart broken because I enjoy him and feel like I will never again meet anyone else due to a whole bunch of health issues I am dealing with.

And there have been things he has said where it seems like he has jumped the fence, but he denies that also.

I have no idea what to think anymore when it comes to him, except I am pretty sure he is not the one I should be with.

I empathize with your situation and hope you find healing and closure.

So, basically he is an insecure person. I don't believe that not having sex with you for years led him to cheat. It's his insecure feeling of losing his manhood that made him cheat. He just wanted prove himself that he still got it. That's fucked up. My advice is to divorce him since he cheated you more than once and he could do it again. You deserve better and happy life.

Just don't let your fear of loneliness cloud your judgement just like his insecurity clouded his. Good luck.

Lurking,

I’ve been married to this man for 48 years. That’s a considerable amount of time during which we have experienced many ups and downs in our lives.

His insight into why he did what he did seems spot-on to me. Yes, he was afraid of losing his manhood. He had prostate surgery which results in loss of erectile function in many cases. Together we did at least a year of recovery therapy to regain function. It was difficult and humiliating for him. But together we managed to achieve the goal and we’re able to have intercourse again.

His anxiety and fear of losing that part of himself - again - isn’t surprising to me. Men have a great deal of psychological investment in their sexual abilities, and it’s devastating when that aspect of their life is in jeopardy. I can’t begin to describe the anxiety and depression and stress we both experienced as a result of his cancer and the post-surgery efforts. Monumental event in our lives, to say the least.

The fear is well-founded in his case.

For him, the physical aspect of our relationship has always been his love language. He is a toucher, hugger, kisser, etc. Sex is high on the list of his connection list.

I’m not considering divorce. Despite all of this, there remains a deep foundation of love and friendship between us. He is worthy of allowing space for redemption.

He is showing remorse, regret, and contrition. One thing he has said makes me believe him, "I feel relieved that it’s in the open. The more we talk about all of this, the better I feel and am able to help you." No question has gone unanswered. He has opened his computer and phone to me, I have passwords, and complete access. He sent a no contact message, and there is no activity between him and anyone else, and not one instance of watching porn.

At this point, I believe we can recover. There are moments and waves of emotions for me, as well as for him. I’m willing to keep this heart open to him. We have a life together that has far more good in it than bad. I’m going to stay.

This double posted sorry

[This message edited by 5Decades at 1:54 PM, Saturday, July 1st]

He is showing remorse, regret, and contrition

.

He did this last time too.

At this point, I believe we can recover.

You believed this last time too.

I am not undermining everything you and him went through during his cancer period. I know how much it sucks. My sister-in-law died because of blood cancer. She went through this agony for 4 years. She was married to my brother for 8 years. Their romance life was cut short by her cancer 4 years into their marriage. There was no sex between them for 4 years. She was living on oxygen supplied through an oxygen cylinder for the last 2 years of her life. He couldn't even cuddle with her. And yet he never cheated on her. He was there for her whenever she needed him. My sister-in-law was moved into our parents' home because there were more people to look after her. My brother works in a different city as a civil engineer. So, whenever his wife would call him and ask him to come home because she missed him, he would immediately take a car and leave for her, even if it's in the middle of the night. That's how much he prioritized her. Dead bedroom wasn't even an issue for him.

So, yes, I do understand his fear and what you both went through during his cancer time. But, I fail to comprehend why you are making excuses for his new betrayal. How does any of this help you? 48 years of marriage, 18 years of him working on himself post dday1, and yet here you are. If 18 years of working on himself didn't make him strong enough to fight this temptation and safe enough for you, then why do you think this time it will be any different??

Take your time and process this new betrayal, and then decide what you want. Your decision should be based on the present reality and not on your past with him.

What actions of his post dday2 makes him look redeemable?? If these are the same actions that he undertook post dday1, then how does this make him redeemable? If D is not an option, then you don't really have any options at all. All you can do is pray to God that he won't cheat again and hope you are lucky next time. This is not the way to heal.

The difference this time? A lot.

18 years ago, the recovery was very different for us. I can see that now, because I have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

At that time, the Dday was in September. Only 3 weeks later, he received the cancer diagnosis that overturned our lives. We were just beginning our work as a couple to recover when we were faced with the very real possibilities of complete loss of sexual function or death.

We had to work fast, and the focus shifted from my pain to his health. He had surgery just 3 months from Dday. That began the long road to recovery for his physical health, and put the affair into a different place in terms of priorities. Yes, he was regretful and apologetic. The main thing for me was that he not die before we could bond again.

We both did some work, but the fact is that the cancer bombed our emotional and physical lives far beyond what the affair did.

It wasn’t "rugsweeping" per se, but rather the priority of surviving at all that took over our recovery.

Many differences here. His insight into what and why has changed, and he shows real understanding of what he has done and the emotions that underpin it. He sought IC on his own. I haven’t had to pull information out of him - he writes things down and sends them without my asking or prompting. He has not gotten upset or angry at any question I have, which is unlike before (he got tired of me asking details before, which is a definite negative sign I wasn’t aware of at the time). He initiates conversation about the affair, and about the past one, and talks openly about his feelings, motivations, shame, guilt, and his thought processes - which he did not do last time.

The focus isn’t on him at all now. He is focused on my recovery, and trying to repair the damage and pain. He is working on himself in addressing his issues, too. He says this is 100% his fault, and reminds me frequently of that when I go into the "what did I do wrong" spiral. No question goes unanswered, I have passwords, he shows me every text from anyone (OW has sent nothing), and we have linked our phones so I know when he gets any call or text and can read all messages.

At my age, I don’t fear being alone. That’s not a motivation here. I know that he is likely to die long before I do (he is older), and that I will likely be on my own after that. I accepted that fact long ago.

What I do not want is for either of us to leave this earth with regrets about our marriage. I have no regrets, in spite of this. We have had a long life together, and to throw it all away isn’t in my plan. I’m able to forgive, able to understand what happened and why, and able to carry out a solid plan to fix it.

He is a good man. He has his demons, like anyone else. I’m willing to risk it, just as I was on the day I met him.

Hi there,

I’ve read through your posts and one of the things that I can’t understand is why he didn’t come to you when he had issues. It seems as if you were in a place where you’re very open to listening and understanding and working through issues. My worry here is why wasn’t he? Why did he go to another woman when he clearly has a loving wife, who understands physical challenges, and the hard work and marriage requires.

And your family friend is actually not even close to a friend. I would tell him if you speak to her again we’re done. She should be so so ashamed of herself.

I just wonder if this could start again with the next challenge. I appreciate that he is remorseful, that is not enough. What happens when he has the next challenge.

I agree with Sisoon’s comment, you are well onto the path of healing. I’m not sure about him yet. I do hope he is as well. Wish you the best.

I also asked that same question - why didn’t you just talk to me before all of this?

He said that it began with porn as a way to make sure his abilities remained intact. And that it became like an obsession, and he was ashamed about that. His work on this aspect shows progress - he recognizes that porn can be very detrimental in that it sets up unrealistic fantasies, and the path becomes darker and darker. He speaks openly about what he has seen, etc., and says that an addictive pattern of watching it definitely is a huge risk. He is working on this aspect in recovery, and there are visible changes already. I’m not privy to his conversations in this area (IC) but I do know what he and I have discussed and there is a major shift in that area for him.

The former friend? Yeah, not a friend. No argument there. We knew her for many years, but back when we lived in proximity to each other and she was younger, she was always an exhibitionist and had no qualms about flashing herself publicly to men. We had not been in touch but off and on over the years. Each time she was a bit stranger, with weird tales of how the government poisoned her, that men in suits visited her and threatened her, and that she was being watched. She’s no better now. The one thing that she has retained over the years is her exhibitionism, and that was a major contribution to this affair ramping up.

My focus isn’t her, because it truthfully could have been any female who came along who was open to this kind of interaction.

We are working at reconnecting in a more positive and meaningful way. He wrote me two long letters yesterday, both of which went a long way to giving me insight into what he was (and wasn’t) thinking. He says that he has a great deal of guilt, but sees guilt as "selfishness" on his part - because guilt is about his own feelings and not about mine. That’s a huge insight right there.

We are progressing. It’s rough, imperfect, but it is progress. I have only time and hope to go by. So far, we progress up the right path.

At least he is willing to get IC and shows remorse....that is a step in the right direction?

As gently as I can, I don't think the work on the porn use is the issue needed to be addressed. It's this:

And that it became like an obsession, and he was ashamed about that.

Shame, obsessions, and all the other things that makes one look inward/close up and not share with their partner. I am skeptical that after 48 years you are going to see much progress in this inward thinking, especially as you have been through all of this before and I'm guessing were very upfront about the "no secrets" policy. The no secrets does not just apply to an active affair - it applies to all kinds of negative/uncomfortable thoughts and feelings. If your WH is unable STILL to be open with you, which resulted in the mess you all are in, he better get some real help in figuring out that your life-partner is exactly the person to turn to when you feel ashamed instead of trying to salve it over with other people/fantasies.

That would be my focus.

ThisIsSoLonely,

You hit on exactly what we both have recognized. We actually had the discussion about his not talking to me, instead seeking out other people.

I admit I got snarky about it. I asked him what that was about - so if he doesn’t like a tv show I’m watching, is that his next "justification" to go talk crap about me to another woman and work it into an affair? Or isn’t it easier to just let me know he wants to change the channel? He got the message there.

The change in this area is happening, for sure. He has talked to me about things that happened when he was a teenager, and he never spoke about this to anyone until that conversation with me this week. He opened up about the early years of our marriage (we had a two month separation - he was in a band and thought he was gonna be a rock star - but he rapidly figured that junk out).

More importantly, he has opened up about his fears about cancer, his feelings about me and our life together, and his shame/embarrassment about what he has done.

He has talked about his mindset at the onset and throughout the affair, and written me several times about what he sees that his affair has done to me.

I was really surprised by the one letter, because it described how I was feeling almost as if he was inside my head.

The improvement in his self-expression is helping me, for sure.

He cries frequently, and lets me know why. Usually he tells me that he cries because he hurt me, he sees it, and he’s having a lot of self-hatred about what he did. He says his guilt is selfish. I tell him it goes with the territory, and if he had no guilt I would not be here.

He’s definitely doing the right work. I’m working, too.

Oddly enough, he has had to have two surgeries since DDay. Deja vu.

I called the AP.

I wasn’t sure I should, but all in all, it made me feel better.

We have known each other for nearly 50 years. She didn’t lie. Apologized.

She spent most of the time talking about herself. Then she said that I wasn’t the one who was broken, that she was, her boyfriend long ago cheated on her, now I know how she felt, and that she couldn’t have sex with her husband (married him about ten years ago and he died of Covid) because she had the exact medical condition I had and hasn’t had sex for 20 years.

And she asked me to forgive her.

I told her I was empty, that I wasn’t able to be the giver of anything right now. And to go ahead and forgive herself.

They lied to each other. The entire thing was stupid, weird, and a complete fantasy. A total waste of energy on BS that never had to happen.

The one thing I ended up understanding was that my husband was not in love with her. I know this man. And five minutes on the phone told me what I needed to know. It explains why the number of phone calls was low. He said texts were better because phone calls with her were very weird (she has some bizarre beliefs about the government poisoning her, the mafia following her and people in black suits threatening her, but I digress).

Anyway, I have some closure there. At least for now. Until the next rollercoaster ride begins again.

The change in this area is happening, for sure.

I'm glad you see change, just please be careful. Your posts remind me of me back between d-days 2 and 3 (which were about 6 months apart). My WH was very good at this same type of introspection, it just didn't last long. He tired of it within 3 months and was back to feeling resentful and honestly lazy - it was easier for him to justify his dissatisfactions with me, whatever they were, by self-soothing with someone else or with porn or whatever combination thereof.

To give you an example, my WH and I lived far from each other for the first five years of our relationship. I then moved to his house in 2013. When I moved in, as in while I was bringing my stuff into the house from the moving van, I noticed one of the windows on the old detached garage he used only to store things rarely used, was broken and some glass had shattered on the ground and some shards of broken glass were still there, mostly in the dirt under some bushes. I had said - as I was carrying a box to the old garage - something like "someone should pick that up as [his dog] could dig around under there and cut himself." He agreed and we continued moving things and forgot about it (or at least I did). As I never really went back to that garage, I forgot all about it.

In 2019, after d-day 2, and after 3 months of "trying" as you WS appears to be, I see in a text message to AP, where he is bitching about me, and amongst other things he mentions how I never cleaned up this broken glass. The broken glass that was there when I moved in. The broken glass I mentioned once 6 years earlier... WH has now been in IC for over 3 years - and he can talk much more genuinely and accurately about how he allowed himself to so quickly go back to nitpicking me in his head, and failing to communicate about it, which for 3 months seemed like he was capable of doing.

3 years of IC - and my WH is much younger than your WS - and hasn't had nearly as many years cultivating a suppressive mindset. My point is that you WS likely will not keep such introspection up on his own. Not because he is not being genuine right now - but because he doesn't have the tools to keep it up. For my WH, his problem wasn't that he was lying when he said he was trying, there is just something inside his head (that doesn't exist in mine) that leads him to behave the way he has been for most of his life. IMO IC is going to be critical.

Just be careful with yourself - and try not to let hopium-fueled trust hurt you.

WH has generally been very expressive over the years. He began shutting down around the beginning of the EA, which is par for the course and part of their handbook I guess. Denigrating the spouse is also on that list of things to do when beginning an affair. His complaints to her included not enough sex, and that he didn’t like the tv shows I watch. Seriously, my major flaw was watching the news when I got home from work LOL.

The irony here is in the "not enough sex" department. The AP had the same condition I had, only I chose to get mine treated so I could have sex again. She did not. She got married ten years into her being unable to have sex, and never had sex with her husband. He died about four years later of Covid, and they never had sex together. So she lied to him the entire time, and in this fantasy he was going to go meet up for a consummation of their relationship. That would have been an interesting thing to see, and I have some schadenfreude here.

He has always written letters and songs, even poems about things in our life. The fantasy, along with porn, combined to form a perfect bomb in our relationship. The AP helped because she fed him with lies, and their exchange of nudes and sexts also fed his need to build the "masculinity" ego. He fed her with flowery language in letters and notes. Like I said, he generally is able to express himself. He just stopped doing it with me.

I knew something was wrong because of that change. I just thought it was someone local, and kept looking in the wrong places. It wasn’t until a very weird update on my iPad resulted in sending all of his stuff to my device that it was exposed in full to me. So I had access to everything, and neither of them knew until I confronted him.

Once I was able to talk to her on the phone, I realized that there was no way he was in love with her. He has a sister who has serious narcissistic tendencies, and you cannot talk to her without the conversation turning to her life, her feelings, her needs, her medical conditions, and how nobody’s pain or money or car or ANYTHING is worse/better etc. His AP is the same way. She told me that SHE was hurt more than anyone because SHE lost friends in this; SHE is lonely now; he was able to understand HER; SHE is the broken one, not me…..and proceeded to tell me all about her dead husband and her not having sex for 20 years, her former boyfriend from decades ago cheating on her, how her ex partner left her, and on and on.

It was like being on the phone with WH sister, and I know he hates talking to his sister for that reason. He told me that he is actually relieved that this is over, because he really hated talking to AP on the phone. It made it real, and he realizes the fantasy of it was what he chased, definitely not the real AP.

Something he said made complete sense. I asked him if he was in love with her. He said he thought he was at the time, but also knew it wasn’t real as well. He says it was very strange, but he knew it was a fantasy he was indulging , yet he allowed it to pretend a strange reality as well. He said that d-day flipped a switch in his head, and it all just turned off. "If it was true love, real love, it would not just vaporize in a moment, and it wouldn’t be disgusting in just one second," he said.

He also says that he feels like he has awakened from a fog, where everything was fake and self-indulgent.

Anyway, the phone call with AP showed me who she is, and I know my husband could not love that person. He was fantasizing. That doesn’t make this easier or better or acceptable. It just gives me more factual information, that’s all.

I don’t see myself ever dropping my guard. I hate that aspect of the rest of my life but there it is.

Quick update.

Husband is doing the work. Zero contact, and answering any and all questions with details and honesty. He brings up the affair without me asking, and talks openly about what he was thinking and feeling, and where his head is now.

At times he looks at me, apologizes, and will tell me that he feels like he has come out of a fog - that he has been rescued from a very bad headspace and a dark spiral downward in his life.

Sometimes he says he feels guilt, or shame, remorse, regret, contempt for who was…and I say, "I guess that goes with the territory". He nods his head in agreement and says he is working on being the person I deserve, and the person he knows he used to be.

Not a day goes by that he thanks me for the opportunity to reconcile. He is reading things, sharing them with me, and has returned to some things we have always done throughout the marriage, like date nights, and playful jokes.

Covid messed up the date nights, and because I was a healthcare worker he was home alone a lot then, this contributed to opportunities for the affair and loneliness. He also drank more than, another contributing factor. Not excuses by any means. The environment offered him a frame of mind. I asked him what he told himself to give permission to do all of this. He said a lot of things, like I would never know, it was okay because it was "only" emails or texts or calls, or that porn doesn’t really "count", but that he knew he was lying anyway. He says he knew it was all wrong, all a lie, but somehow he felt drawn in, although he felt horrible about it he didn’t stop. He says the entire thing is confusing and makes him sick now to look back and drill down into, because he sees that at every turn he just did what was selfish and pleasure-seeking. He says that "stripped down, he was just an asshole looking for sex and being a pig".

I told him that pigs take offense at that - he laughed.

His growth is showing. He is calmer, much more like when we first met. His energy is much more positive. Most importantly, his focus is on MY healing. He notices MY mood, immediately. He sees when I have a moment of sadness and acts to settle me. If I’m have a rough day, or am triggered, he stops working (he works at home) and immediately asks what I’m feeling and what I need. He accepts 100% of the blame and 100% of the consequences.

I believe we will reconcile this relationship. No, it’s not easy. But if this is the foundation, we will succeed.

Thanks for the positive update. I hope it continues for you. Continue to watch his actions and take care of you. Watch for consistent actions over time. You are well aware your WH has cheated more than once years apart. He needs to do a lot of work to show you he can be trusted moving forward. Good luck.