SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

As long as she stonewalls you - the affair will continue.

She’s forcing YOU to do things to address your "issue" as she calls it but yet she doesn’t have to do anything.

I’m essence she expects you to change to fit her needs and then she will let you know if it’s good enough.

She will keep moving the finish line as long as you let her.

She’s manipulating you. I hope you can see that.

Again, I would say something like this to her.

"It is clear you are not happy with me as a partner. I can change how we interact and I can change how open I am with my feelings with you and I can work on our relationship.

But I cannot and will not do any of this while you have another person in your heart. For our relationship to succeed we need to be each other’s one and only.

I can understand s that doesn’t necessarily work for you. And if that is the case it breaks my heart but I cannot be in a relationship where my wife is pining away for another person.

So that is why I think it’s best that you go explore what you are feeling with them and figure it out. I’m not going to wait around for you to do that. I’m in pain. It appears you don’t have empathy for that pain. But that also shows me that I am not your one true love.

So while you go explore what and who brings you happiness, I’ll work to legally end the marriage that your infidelity has destroyed.

Then I am going to work to heal myself alone. I will need a lot of time to do that before I can let another person in my heart. But after a while I will hope to find someone who is a true life partner who loves me and only me and can commit to spending the last decades of our lives enjoying each other.

If at any time you w realize you have gone down the wrong path, let me know, but unless I see that you have fully realized that the person you are chasing is someone who actually was damaging to our relationship and have them out of your heart forever, I won’t be interested in trying again with you.

I wish you well on your journey and hope to have an amicable time thru the divorce process. "

My friend. Unless you are willing to share your wife, this seems like the only current path you have. I’m sorry for your pain and wish you well on your healing.

I tried to talk to my H during his affair. I was calm and rational and kind and supportive. I talked until I was blue in the face.

He planned to kick me to the curb every step of the way. I allowed the back & forth ti continue fir 6 months.

Until I decided I was done being a doormat and letting a lying cheating jerk decide my future.

The next conversation I had was all of 1 minute. It sure did get his attention.

I changed the dynamics.

He lost his power and he knew it.

He wasn’t welcome anymore in my home or my life.

I was making plans and not discussing anything with him.

How? I told him I was D him. Not to get the affair to stop but b/c I realized I had enough.

I hope this helps you.

Don't let people bind you up with negative terms like "ultimatum." You have a right to set boundaries on what you will and will not accept in your life. One of those should be that you insist on a monogamous marriage.

You should let her know that's your boundary and that you're not going to wait much longer for her to respect it. But you don't need to set a deadline for her. You need to set a deadline for yourself. Set a date for yourself when you're no longer going to accept this level of disrespect and cruel disregard for your feelings. And then stick to it.

Best wishes.

Gently, your W damaged your M by going outside instead of addressing her issues inside the M. Even if she brought the issues up without a satisfactory response, she would have been better off to end the M than to cheat.

But she chose to cheat.

Once a WS takes responsibility for their actions and starts to change from cheater to good partner, many of those old pre-A issues disappear - because resentment is more of the problem than the ostensible issue is, and changing from cheater to good partner involves, in part, accepting that resentment is the resenter's - the WS's - issue.

Just keep saying, 'We can't resolve that while you're in this other relationship, while this M is dying.' That's all. Your partner's resentments are like high cholesterol. While she' in her A, your M is bleeding out in the ER.

There are without doubt some real pre-A issues. They will come up again in R, and if your WS is really on board for R, she'll bring them up and you will be able to resolve them one good way or another.

You have to risk your M to save it. I know it's hard to do that. I know the risk of loss looms large. It really isn't - your W is at least partly with another person. Your M is dead in a very real way, but if you both do your work, you can bring back to life, more vibrant that it ever was.

But you need to take the risk.

The positive side of that is this: you get to choose when you rake that risk. Most of us here think the sooner the better for you. But you know your sitch better than anyone here does.

My W as ready to be honest when she revealed her A. But I asked her if she was cheating 4 months before d-day and 6 weeks before d-day, and she denied any problem and any A. If I had pushed harder (and I wish I did), would she have chosen honesty earlier, or would she have told me she needed time to decide? And what would I have done, if she had done either?

I suspect I would have waited. Most people do. That would have cast a pall over any eventual R, but I think I'd have waited. That's what you're doing - temporizing. No one can predict what your partner will do, but you are right there, and you receive her non-verbal communications, and that tells you something.

But I have total confidence saying that unless your W makes the choice for you by deciding to leave for good, you'll have to give her some sort of ultimatum - set your boundary - at sometime in the future. And if she does leave, you may have to decide to separate or D. If she chooses R, you'll have to decide if you'll take her back and under what conditions (i.e. your requirements for R).

Right now, I think you're floating thinking you don't have to make decisions. That's flat out wrong. You are making decisions now, to abide by her ultimatum. That may be best for you, but I urge you to look inside, set your boundaries, and enforce them.

Having written the above, I know what my point is. To R, you need to figure out your requirements for R. To temporize, you also need to set your requirements for waiting.

What behavior will keep in in a waiting state? Under what conditions will you choose to end waiting?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:07 PM, Wednesday, May 4th]

Stevesn, after reading your comments, I have drafted something up, basically exactly what you wrote here. I really appreciate this a lot. Now I must decide when to present it to her.

The1stWife, I am at that point, I am tired of being a doormat. I recently said to her that I want this to end and it will end one way or another. And she said I was threatening her and she doesn't like to be spoken to like that. It feels like every time I try to stand up for myself, I'm the mean one who cant control my anger. Its not fair. She clearly has all the power, and I need to change that asap.

Seeking2Forgive, I did explain that as a boundary of mine and that I'm not going to wait much longer. That's when she gave herself the ultimatum of three more weeks. Which I reluctantly agreed to but it has given me time to decide what I want to do and when. My deadline is basically this week it feels. I cannot do this much longer and sometimes when I think about it being over, I get a wave of relief and a feeling of freedom. Which tells me I'm just about ready to act.

sisoon, I realize I am the one who has to make a decision because she hasn't been able to this entire time, why would she now. I keep telling myself what you have said a few times, you need to risk the M to save the M. And it feels hopeful that once a WS takes responsibility for their actions many of those old pre-A issues disappear. I feel that is the case, but I don't think she does and that's why she keeps bringing up old stuff and makes it sound like she's debating if its worth it to even try.

Thank you all, so so much.

clrsrz,

I don't mean to belabor this point, and I hope this helps someone.

I think virtually all of us give some power to our partners. I know I've given some power over some areas of our lives tto my W, and she's given me some power. I've taken some power; so has she. That's been part of our M.

You write that your W has all the power. That's not true. Actually, you have a lot of power, and I want to explain why I think that.

IMO, you've given your W a lot of your power, That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it hasn't worked out this time. But you still have your power. The fact that you're here working out how you're going to solve this problem says part of you know you're powerful.

I don't know if I've said it in this thread, but you have more power than you realize consciously. You have the strength you need. Telling your W you're getting tired of waiting is one way you're exercising your power.

Deciding to wait 3 weeks may come partly from a sense of weakness, but it could be a decision that partly comes fro your sense of power - if you made an unconscious decision not to fight on the front at this time. Not always but sometimes, strength comes from yielding.

You feel weak, but you are strong - you just don't realize it yet.

Reframe, reframe, reframe. If you feel weak, post about it. If I see the post, I'll help you reframe by pointing out where your strength comes in.

Sisoon, I see what you mean. I do feel like she has the power because so far, she has gotten what she wants because I'm afraid of taking a stand for fear of pushing her away. I still feel that way, but my therapist has said many times that I can end this suffering and I agree with that. Im just scared. Right now Im at a point where I have drafted something up basically saying that Im going to enforce my boundaries. I am afraid that if I say this, she's going to say something like, ok fine you don't want to be with me anymore that's your choice. And Im afraid she's not going to fight to keep me and then it will reinforce what this medium told her - that she has a past life with her AP. And that if I make this decision then it tells her that she needs to pursue a life with her AP. My worst nightmare coming true. Part of me also thinks that if it's that easy for her to leave then let her go anyway.

I want you to know you’re right. She may say that to you. It may even be more likely than not.

But that’s why I worded it the way I did when I wrote the example for you.

And the truth is she’d be right, you Don't want to be with her if she cannot meet what you need.

You cannot be in a 3 way relationship and you cannot be with someone more in love with someone else than you and pining a away for them.

And the truth is, you really can’t. It would eat you alive from the inside. You are Being honest and truthful here.

If people ask why you separated or divorced, say you could not live with her taking in a same sex lover. Again. Be honest. ALWAYS BE HONEST. it’s the best path.

So if she does say ok, I also think it’s best that I try to be with my barely legal lover, then realize she’s made her choice and it’s best you know now. You need to find happiness in your life.

Honestly she’s probably already spending nights with her. So force her to figure this out. Honestly I dont see it lasting. If it does then at least she found what makes her happy. I’m sorry it wasn’t you. But you deserve a woman who adores you and only you. So look at it that she’s giving you the oppty to find that person.

And if it does fall apart for them then maybe she’ll come back and truly work on herself and realize your the one true love she’s ever had. And she’ll show true empathy for the pain she caused and prove to you that she wants to be with you and only you. That will be the same hard road it is right now. I hope she has it in her to do that.

Or maybe she still wont come back to even if they break up. Honestly this is the option I hope for as I want you to find someone better. Honestly she sounds a bit batshit crazy. Sorry be a Medium helping her lead her life? I can’t stomach that. And I think you’re best without her.

Anyway, it wo t get easier to do, so I recommend giving her the letter before the 3 weeks is up. She’ll probably give you some bullshit line about not coming back because of the letter. Honestly screw that. Lay down your boundaries clearly and succinctly.

If she comes back without knowing them and understanding them, then you really have nothing. So communicate them as soon as possible.

Take care.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:21 PM, Thursday, May 5th]

Stevesn, you are correct. I just can't believe that this could be the end. (Also, her and I are a same sex couple so I would just say she cheated on me and chose her AP over me). It does bother me that this girl is so young. And last summer she would say things like, she reminds me of you, to me. Like, what??? I was also going to say that they aren't spending nights together because its an EA (this girl lives in Europe), but they very well might be.

Thank you for being comforting during this horrible nightmare. Ive always thought I could never find anyone better but I'm coming around to the idea. I know I deserve better, I am not happy at all.

I’m sorry that I did not pick up on that. But the advice is the same.

You need to lay down these boundaries as soon as possible. Honesty and full openness about what you need are the best path back to your own happiness. Whether or not she follows is up to her.

You can’t make her do anything. Nor should you want to. You want someone who chooses to become safe and faithful and empathetic on her own. If you made her do it, you really have nothing. That would Be reconciling with yourself.

I just can't believe that this could be the end.

Yes, this is normal when something really bad happens to us in life. The denial phase of grief. You're not alone, feeling this way as your marriage ends. It's hard, but you're young and there are a lot of other possibilities and people in your future.

I've always thought I could never find anyone better but I'm coming around to the idea. I know I deserve better, I am not happy at all.

Yes, you can definitely find someone who will treat you better than she did. When you reflect on how you were treated (cheated on, lied to, strung along, etc.), ask yourself, would I want my beloved sister/best friend/daughter/favorite dog, etc. to be in that kind of relationship? If the answer is no, that tells you a lot. Many times, we have such low self-esteem and such a desire to maintain our bond with a partner, that we try to accept and cope with the harm that is being done to us by a bad partner. But we would not accept it if it were happening to someone else we love. So that's a good perspective to keep in mind.

[This message edited by morningglory at 4:24 PM, Saturday, May 7th]

You will not be doing anything to push her away. Please know that.

If you say "I want this to end b/c it’s disrespectful to me" she can make one of two choices. Fight with you and say you are being controlling b/c it’s NOT what she wants, OR she can say "yes I understand what I am doing is wrong" and stop.

Let’s reverse the roles. You are lying about something. She’s unhappy and wants you to stop lying and tell the truth. You can accuse her of being controlling and stand your ground OR be mature and admit you lied and ask for forgiveness.

She’s already cheating. If you ask her to stop and she breaks up with you, then she never had ANY intention of stopping the lying and cheating. She just showed you that her selfishness and disrespect are her top priorities.

The1stWife, I have said that many times. Word for word. She claims that it is over, and that they don't talk or anything. But they're still friends on social media and she cant for the life of her, get rid of her (i.e. unfollow/block) and because of that, its really hard for me to believe that its over. Especially since it was an online EA!! I asked her again over the weekend and she said she's not still cheating on me. I asked her if she wants to be with me and she said yes. But something doesn't feel right and I cant put my finger on it. The1stWife, I was wondering about your story actually. So I read a comment of yours where you said it was 6 months of him threatening divorce, etc. and then one day you decided you were done and said you wanted a divorce and that's when he snapped out of it. Was he cheating that whole time? What happened after he snapped out of it? Was it right then and there that the A ended? I'm just wondering like how I should go about this. She says she wants to be with me and the A is over. How long do I wait for her to completely end it with her AP?? Because I don't want to wait anymore.

Thank you all so much for the kind words. I makes me feel very hopeful about my future no matter what happens.

[This message edited by clrsrz at 6:15 PM, Monday, May 9th]

I think you are worried of upsetting her and losing her, because you love her. Most people showing up here feel the same.

Losing her is not the worst thing that can happen to you, the worst thing that can happen to you is to be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t respect you.

Either she is fully committed to your relationship or you have the courage to do what is best for you. She can threaten to walk away and that’s ok, because you don’t want to be with someone who treats you that way

I wish you’d go back and read thru this thread again and think about what everyone is telling you. Personally please read the sample words I gave you.

It is not just no contact with the AP. It is actually her working to see that the AP helped her hurt you, the woman she loved and that the AP is actually a piece of shit for doing it (like your partner is as well).

Then it’s not just simply going back to the way things were before the AP. Things will never be that way again after her infidelity.

It is showing empathy for the pain she caused you. It is doing things to help you heal. It is showing transparency by actually offering to let you read her communications to others real time. And it is actually courting you again. Doing things to show how important you are.

You are getting none of this today. You are only getting words and not good ones at that. Simply saying "the A is over but I’m going to stay friends with the AP" is actually LESS than the LEAST she can do. At least if she were saying she’s still interested in a relationship with the AP, you would know. Instead she strings you Along with hope.

So the best thing For you right now to be able to do, even though you love her, is to communicate something like:

I love you. I’m in love with you. But unfortunately love is not enough. I need to feel loved. I need to feel desired. I need you to recognize how much your affair has hurt me. I need to feel you care. I need to know that you see your other woman as a threat to our relationship that she is. That you hate her for helping to hurt me. And that you’re desperate to win me back.

I need to feel you want to help me heal from this. That you’ll get in therapy and figure out why you did this to the woman you vowed to love forever. And a desire to build something new with me because you destroyed everything we built before.

But I feel none of that from you. I feel indifference at best.

I cannot be in a relationship with you if she is in your life in any way. That is a strict boundary for me. So because I don’t see you caring enough to block her forever, I need to move on to find someone who only has me in herheart.

So it’s time for me to move on. I am heartbroken about this but it’s the only way forward for me at this point. It’s a long road to rebuild and I don’t think uou have it in you to walk it with me.

I will be contacting a lawyer this week to begin the process to legally end the marriage your infidelity destroyed. I’m sorry it had come to this.

I’m sorry but it’s really the only way to get what you need or want, with or without her. Please Consider doing this now and not wait any more.

I do feel like she has the power because so far, she has gotten what she wants because I'm afraid of taking a stand for fear of pushing her away.

You're playing the "pick-me dance", trying to "nice" her back. It never works. Never.

There is a very easy way for you to get 100% of your power back: walk away. Choose your personal path. Let go of the outcome.

If she wants you, she'll run after you and ask what she can do to keep you. If she doesn't do that, she was never yours in the first place.

I will try to give you the benefit of my experience. But I want you to know nothing I said or did stopped the Affair. He came to that decision on his own.

My H of almost 25 years comes home late one Sumer night. I had that "gut feeling" and I never had it before. So I asked him what was going on and he was honest. He was with someone else that night. Probably going on for a few months.

10 days later he is thinking of D. Actually he’s already decided he wants a D. And yes I’m unprepared and blindsided.

My gut is I need 90 days to get my finances in order. He’s ready to walk out the door. I have no $ to my name and a house & kids etc.

We then have the "it’s her or me" confrontation 10 days after Dday. He is shocked and unprepared so he swears it’s me. Turns out it’s a lie.

So for 6 months he’s giving me the "I want a D — no I don’t want a D" routine. I think we are reconciling and he ended the affair in the summer, but 6 weeks later it restarted. Completely underground. Very well hidden.

Now it’s December. I’m thinking we are finally moving forward and R. He walks in the door out of the blue and pulls the "I want a D" routine. Again.

I told him to take our kids to dinner b/c I don’t want them to see me all broken up and crying. He’s now decided he doesn’t want a D and begs me to reconsider b/c he’s positive this time he wants to reconcile and remain married.

I went to my bedroom and called the OW. In 2 minutes I learned they had been seeing each other up until that night. I snapped. I had enough.

I told him I knew. Everything. He swears it’s over. I never yelled or cursed him. I remained calm and tried to be rational the entire time.

Next day I told him in a very calm rational way I was D him. I had no other choice. He was free to be with the OW or anyone else he chooses.

I left the room. It’s not a discussion. It’s a statement of fact.

He’s begging to Reconcile. I wanted no part of it.

I had my exit plan and I was in execution mode. I had all my $ in a new account. I had copes if every financial document. I had my counselor and a mediator picked out. I wasn’t speaking to him. Only if kids were around.

Long and short was he pressured me to R. I finally told him if he wanted to turn this around - go ahead. But I’m not helping you. I finally got him to stop badgering me about it. I really just wanted him to shut up.

But he managed to turn things around. Somehow some way he made some very big changes on his own immediately.

I also demanded a post nup to even consider reconciling. He willingly signed it.

I now wear the pants in this marriage. I back down for no one. If I say it I mean it. I’m no longer a doormat. And he no longer can take advantage of me.

He’s never late. He is never MIA. He doesn’t meet with female co-workers unless it’s public or others are present. He doesn’t stay out late after work dinners. He never had a social media presence so that’s not an issue.

Things have changed. Because if he didn’t I was going to D him. And he knows it.

I hope this helps you. Just know he had ended the affair a few hours before I called the OW. It just was almost too late though.

He’s lucky I have him another chance. But I was fully prepared to D. It was not a bluff.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:13 PM, Monday, May 9th]

Huh. That’s a new one. I’ve certainly heard of soulmates, twin flames, and "meant to bes," but past lives??? Lol

On a more serious note, please don’t do the pick-me dance. It’s self-degrading and will only hurt you in the long-run.

Look up the 180. Not to get her back but to start protecting yourself. If she comes around, that’s a bonus. If she doesn’t… well then, the decision’s made for you. Why keep someone who doesn’t want to be with you?

How’s it going clrsrz?