SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi T,

Talking about your wife, that's the hard part of being a wayward. Since she's been tagged as a cheater, everything that comes out from her from now on will be deemed as a lie unless it's proven as truth. Prime example was her saying it never went physical. How'd you know? How can you prove? It's up to her now to prove she's saying the truth. She's got away with lying for the last 2 years? She needs to prove that she's telling the truth from now on.

If she really wants to reconcile, she should put all her efforts to it. She was the wayward, you're the betrayed. Most of all, it seems like you're the provider and she's a dependent. You have nothing to lose, actually. While she will lose everything! Family, financial independence and of course her reputation ruined.

Back to the physicality of her affair, it's up to her to prove that nothing physical has happened. First incident, they met. How can she prove that nothing happened? Of course they flirted from the get go, which eventually led to them exchanging contact numbers. So that brings us back to her telling a lie. So you have to assume that they were physical from the get go. That's where they started, they met physically, flirted physically, then turned virtual for 2 years? Nobody in their right mind will last that long virtually. Also, they had the chance to meet in that span of 2 years, considering the fact that the guy has or can physically meet with your wife.

I know this is hard for you right now that's why I advise you to be calm and process things first before you move on to the next. You should physically separate from your wife for a few weeks to avoid unnecessary incident. Right now, you have no control of your emotions. That's a fact!

Good luck!

Couple of decades ago I worked for a company that used a 17 number code to clock in and out with. I worked there 8 months and all these years later I still remember that number, she knows his phone number.

Secondly, just because you are confident she didn't go to him doesn't mean he didn't come to her.

Cheaters lie, think about it, whats her motivation for being honest? If she can convince you its just pictures and texts she improves her odds of getting what she wants.

Its wise to assume everything is a lie until proven true.

Hammer her with the polygraph, if there is more it will slowly come out.

Its easy to believe this is the story. It never is, usually just the first edition.

Sorry you're having to deal with this. Worse parr is its now a part of your life, no matter what direction you go it will be with you. Sometimes it will fade deep into the background, others it will be all you can think about. If you handle it properly it will spend more time in the background.

The way to reach the stage of 'working on reconciliation', from what I've been told by my therapist, is I (BS) need IC to not only heal from the trauma but to see if at the end of healing if I'm the person who even has it in me to be strong enough to offer my WH a second chance and WH (in your case the wife WW) needs IC to fix her issues that led to her betraying you as well as having empathy for the damage she has done. Once that happens and she has worked on herself and you have healed to a point where you have had time to think about your best interests then if you want to offer the gift of reconciliation then you go to MC for help and guidance.

Rushing into anything, decisions and MC will only harm you and give you a false R. As others have said, the marriage didn't cause her to cheat, she chose that, MC is for those who have worked on themselves then work on their marriage, her asking for MC is like her saying it was the marriage fault this happened, not me, we need to fix the marriage now or i'll do it again. It's a messed up form of shift blaming, she needs to take ownership of this affair and work it out in IC before MC is on the table and only YOU can be the one to decide to R, not her. If you find yourself being manipulated into making rush decisions about MC remember that horrible image of her giving her AP ownership of her body and sexuality (so so sorry you saw that) and decide if you want that woman in your life, do you trust her enough to give a second chance, is she a good enough role model for your own daughter who is at a very impressionable age regarding sex and body image.

There is a great post by DaddyDom over on the wayward forum called 'Admitting it vs. Getting it vs. Owning it vs. Living it' and until your wayward works her way through something like that, then if you want to keep the M head off to MC, right now nothing you have said shows she has even passed the first step 'admitting it', she is rushing to patch things up without even owning this.

Distance and space is amazing, once you're out of shock the littlest distance is the best self preservation/protection as it allows you privacy to think without manipulation, can you send her to a spare room? you don't need to be living elsewhere but you need plenty of 'time-outs' to allow yourself to process. Shock is a hell of a thing and until you're out of the shock do not rush into any choices.

During this time it's okay to speak to a D lawyer only so you are aware of the black and white facts, food for thought, the more you empower yourself with knowledge (lawyer, books, SI forums, SI healing library, therapist) the more confidence you will have in what you choose next.

From what you said it sounds like you have a wayward with external validation addiction, not a easy addiction to over come as it stems from poor self esteem and getting attention gives her a dopamine high. She will need to work (hard) on breaking that and as you know breaking addictions take time and there are multiple relapses until it 'sticks'.

Rushing into MC is a bad move, stop letting her tell you what you as a couple need, maybe look at the SI healing library and read through all the articles and see if the '180' is something you want to implement right now just to give yourself that safe healthy mindset required to dealing with your cheater. Make it clear to WW that you will determine when it's time, when you're ready, to be a couple but for now she has killed the M and you need time to decide if she is worth it. Have her block and issue the NC letter (found in SI healing library articles) in front of you, they've been together for around 2yrs, no way has she just dumped him, whatever way they have been communicating they're still doing it, it's not that easy for a wayward who is in an affair that long to go cold turkey, deleting pics means nothing. I'm not saying this with cruelty, affairs follow patterns, being caught cheating the waywards follow patterns, when you read more about infidelity trauma you will see the patterns, it's why so many have said things to you like 'it was physical don't believe her', and i'm saying 'she is still in contact', she isn't a special snowflake, this wasn't a brand new type of A, she is being so formulaic and just acting so typical for a WW. Get her to write a timeline. Would not trust a single word out of her mouth, she's successfully looked you in the eyes and lied to you for over 2yrs, she has no input in your choices.

As for "not physical", I feel like she has, her so accepting of you sleeping with someone else is troubling. She has been very good at hiding this A, in your own words you kind of just 'stumbled' onto this otherwise and if you hadn't nothing you have said shows she would have stopped, 2 yrs and she was safe enough to leave that many pics on her phone, she is good at lying. Nothing wrong with the car you say, he could have picked her up? she could have slotted him into her daily routine. Also as for the sex life, cake eaters still maintain a healthy sex life at home as well as with their AP. Honestly, the way I see infidelity, being physical or not doesn't make this a lesser crime, there are no darker shades past black, she cheated. Best case scenario here is she used you like a vibrator, AP got her worked up with the sexting then she satisfied herself on you. No, it's all bad and she doesn't get to use the 'it wasn't physical' as a way to lessen the damage done.

She is in trickle truth mode it seems. I wouldn't trust it but getting her to give you a timeline and getting her to back it up with proof is a start on breaking this affair up.

Drink water, the brain dehydrates extremely fast during shock which can lead to poor decision making and it makes it harder for you to control emotions. Drink meal replacement/protein shakes if you're skipping meals or not hungry, you need that hydration.

Don't be a mad hatter (getting 'revenge' by having sex with another person), that's shock talking, we all wish revenge but don't 'get even' just yet. Revenge is a dish best served cold, right now the better revenge it seems would be to leave her since she doesn't want that, why sleep with someone if she is ok with that? that's giving her what she wants, if you sleep with someone else you let her off the hook, she doesn't have to explain herself, she doesn't have to feel the shame and guilt and worse of all she will never understand the damage and trauma done. Frankly the fact she is OK with this tells me she has slept with her AP, you want to cheat because it's a 'one up' but she is fine with that? nuh-uh she is fine because she has been physical and in her mind this makes it even. Anyway this is another HUGE choice not to rush into. Please just don't sleep with anyone right now, also not so great for the other person, even if they say it's cool it's hard to separate body, mind and heart when you sleep with someone and if this side friend wants you it means feelings, even a little, are there, you don't want to add another mess of a third person's feelings when you're facing this. Besides if you decide to D without any possibilities of R you are free to play with this eager friend as much as you like without the stigma of cheating.

If you still want to hurt her a little I found saying I was going to get a full screen STD/STI test really slapped my wayward in the face, to make them feel that dirty and icky, it's petty but even the unfairness of having to get one done it allowed me to get my tiny swipe in. LOL he was so outraged and hurt I could ever think he was diseased, waywards am I right?! It also made him worry which personally led to admitting things did get physical, but only in the most spectacular minimizing way, trickle truth is still going on but getting the STD test did force my wayward's hand to revealing more. You can remind her condoms no longer prevent some STIs these days, see if she squirms. I wanted to also share that I spoke to legal as a way to get a swipe in but my lawyer advised me against it, best to be the one more prepared when it comes to D.

Take a giant step back from WW, implement 180, get her to issue the NC to AP, block these toxic friends, get all logins/pwords, get a timeline, collect as much empowering information you can, don't have sex with someone else, keep hydrated and then when you feel better in yourself (F the M right now) then start making the bigger choices.

(((hug)))

edit: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/articles.asp posting for convenience because it all helpful advice.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 2:42 AM, June 29th (Tuesday)]

She is not being honest with you. She'll give kernels of truths you already know mixed in with lies to make the lies more plausible. I and others here know this not because we personally know your wife but because cheaters operate from the same playbook.

Any one of us could have told you to expect her to attempt to erase damning text evidence all the same and it's what she did.

She is going to trickle truth you and it's going to be one of the worst pains you'll ever experience...may end up actually being the worst. She is not who you believed her to be and yet your heart is going to try to deceive you into believing she's still in there. Accept that if you want to fix this that is will never happen with the old her nor the old you. You're both different now and you need to change the rules of engagement. If you try to keep things the same (it's my experience that rugsweeping is a means many use to accomplish this), it's going to result in a perpetuation of everything that's awful. The "same" will result in a continuation of the conditions which led to what you now face and likely you'll see history repeat itself.

You would serve yourself well to put physical distance between the two of you so that you can have better chances of not being manipulated.

It sucks man. All of it. My WW betrayed me for years with another person and sexting was a big part of it along with a very strong emotional facet. Yes, it did get physical as well. So my heart goes out to you buddy.

[This message edited by NotMyFirstRodeo at 7:58 AM, June 29th (Tuesday)]

You may want to vet her counselor on their views on infidelity. Many subscribe to the damaging unmet needs model, which can easily validate your WW’s terrible decisions. Also consider having her sign a disclosure agreement that allows you to ask the counselor questions about her progress.

Who is the OM? Is he married?

Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity. And every spouse has an obligation to make their spouse feel safe (by avoiding certain suspicious behaviors).

Your wife failed big time.

Maybe she just used an online fantasy affair to ramp things up in your bedroom (and never met the guy).

Unfortunately, you can't assume that. Why? because most men aren't going to spend 2 years seducing a woman they never met.

Under the circumstances it's not appropriate for you to prove they had sex. Rather, based on the photos etc it's her job to prove she didn't.

Also, based on her behavior, your wife has made herself into a 'liar', a deceitful person.

Inform her, she no longer deserves the benefit of the doubt. Plus you no longer can believe anything/explanation. Why, because she's a deceitful person.

She should be doing back flips to prove (not promise) they never met.

She needs to provide a timeline of the affair (subject to a polygraph). It doesn't matter if you think they are accurate. It's a good tool to encourage full disclosure.

Right now, take care of yourself. That's the best you can do. Don't try to make decisions (or if you do, before D, leave home for a while), but anyway, don't expect to be sharp enough to make the best decisions.

Unfortunatelly, the mess is done, and it's there to stay. When I found out about my wife's affair, all I wanted was to wake up the next day to find it was only a dream. But this won't go away, and only time will make you feel better again.

I wanted AP’s info. All she knows is his first name and that he was married when they met.

Lie.

She said she always deletes his texts, so she doesn’t have his number.

Lie.

She said she would let me know if he texts her again, so I could do what I want with his number.

Lie.

When we talk, my emotions for her take over, and I know she’s telling the truth.

I just pointed out what are likely three different lies in a short period of time, so you don't know she's telling the truth.

She truly seems to regret it. She emotionally prostrates herself to me. When we’re not together, logic tells me she’s lying to protect herself.

Correct. What you're seeing from her is regret - shame at being caught. It isn't the basis for any kind of reconciliation at all.

You should also understand that unfortunately wayward wives use tears to manipulate. I'm not saying that to be sexist. Most women on this site here will confirm this -- whether they are reformed waywards or betrayed wives. Men also use tears to manipulate but usually it isn't as effective.

Try to keep in mind that your emotions are for a fictional woman. They are for a woman who doesn't exist. They are for a woman who is an ideal standing on a pedestal.

Instead, try to see the real woman in front of you: The woman who is exactly the kind of person who would commit adultery for two years, more than 1,000 days and tell countless lies to your face without blinking.

That's the real woman you're looking at.

She’s wants to start counseling now. I told her I want to wait.

No marital counseling after infidelity. It's a waste of time and harmful. Will encourage blameshifting and rugsweeping.

She agreed that I could have a hall pass for revenge, I told her I don’t want it, at least not yet.

Really bad sign she offered this. REALLY bad sign. This is all but confirmation they've been fucking for the past two years. It's also the mindset of someone who regrets being caught but isn't actually remorseful about what they did.

the reason your WW offered this was to entrap you in a spiral. If you took her up on it, it would absolve her actions. Then she could say you did the same thing. It would "square" the affair away. Then she'd push you to rugsweep it, and she would dismiss your pain.

This wasn't a mistake. It wasn't just sexting.

This was a two year full on affair.

I want the truth and all the details.

And your instincts are good here. This is the only way forward whether you divorce or reconcile. You need to know what you're dealing with here.

1. Demand a narrative written timeline many pages in length - not a bare outline. The whole truth and nothing but the truth.

2. She immediately turns her phone over to you for retrieval software - Dr. Fone

3. She immediately gets a full STD/STI test. You should also get one. Avoid hysterical bonding. If your wife didn't have sex with this other man, she should have NO ISSUE with setting your mind at ease. If she balks, it's because they've had sex like bunnies unprotected.

4. You see an attorney now so you understand the divorce process. And maybe you consider filing (you can always pause the divorce process).

5. She has till the end of this week to give you the written timeline. After that you read it, ask more questions and then you schedule a polygraph to test the truthfulness of the timeline. Polygraphs are extremely common in long-term affairs, so don't balk at this.

If your wife balks at this, then you'll know she wasn't truthful with the timeline.

6. She immediately tells you the other man's full name and how to contact him. She immediately sends a no nonsense NO CONTACT email and text to him ending the relationship with finality. She proves this you.

7. You tell her parents and any other close family on her side what's going on. This isn't for revenge or to get her family on "your side." It's to stop the fantasy and throw an ugly spotlight on the reality. And it's to stop your wife from spinning a false narrative to her family about how the two of you "drifted apart."

8. You tell the other betrayed spouse or girlfriend if there is one. Most of the time there is.

9. Get yourself in to see a betrayal trauma specialist as quickly as you can.

10. Read:

-No More Mr. Nice Guy

-How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair

-Cheating in a Nutshell

All very short books that can be consumed in an afternoon.

Get yourself some VARs' -- one to carry around with you to protect yourself against false domestic violence charges from your wife (yes, shockingly common) and others to monitor her in her car and perhaps somewhere in the house like where she puts on makeup.

We can help you figure out the VARs.

You'll tire of being the marriage police, but for now you need to know what you're actually dealing with in terms of a long-term limerent affair.

Lastly, begin asking yourself if you really think you want to be with such a duplicitous creature the rest of your life. Two years is a loooong time. Really consider what you're facing here.

You might consider invoking right now an immediate therapeutic separation of a minimum of 30 days so you can be away from her and start thinking more clearly. A therapeutic separation is not the same as a formal legal separation.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:55 AM, June 30th (Wednesday)]

We talked about having a threesome with another woman before, and got real close once, but she decided she couldn’t handle it emotionally. That was about 2 years ago. I never looked back.

At least 3 of her friends have had physical, extramarital affairs. I always joked that they would convince her to do it, or that since they did it, so she might think it’s ok.

Unfortunately these are some significant cracks that allowed space for infidelity.

I guarantee the message she took from getting close to a threesome was that you had flexible boundaries.

A friends group of influencers always on the prowl and doing GNO's (Girls night out) is always a very bad sign. She's been getting rah-rah justification from them. Count on it.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:10 AM, June 30th (Wednesday)]

T,

You have gotten some good advice on what to do. I'm going to be a little more philosophical.

Any betrayal, we generally think as a dealbreaker before it happens. You basically mention that in your post. Many people on this site find out we are wrong.

Go back in time in your mind. Before you found out and were desperately figuring out if you can fix this or not. I ask you, "What would you do if your wife sent a picture of her tits to another man with the words 'Bob's Slut' written on them?"

I'm not telling you what is and isn't a dealbreaker for you, but you need to understand your wife committed what may be a dealbreaker and you are in denial. You also have to prepare for finding out she has done more than she has told you so far, and you still might want to reconcile (R).

What I'm talking about right now is the internal struggle you are going to have as you examine your own core values. Will you feel trying to make things work goes against your own core values? Would you rather leave and say, "At least I have my integrity"? Would you rather stay and say, "I was flexible and resilient in the face of injury"?

As you go into this roller coast of emotions, of finding out your wayward wife (WW) is a cheat and a liar, just know that being torn in half is normal.

It's rarely quite as simple as "once a cheater, always a cheater" when it happens to you.

I will tell you this though. Don't accept any blameshifting (you caused this), rugsweeping (we can't heal if we keep talking about the sexting/online affair/affair), or minimization (it was *only* _____). These are the top weapons of the WS. I usually also ad to this "catastrophizing" (nothing I ever do will be good enough). This is often used as an excuse to not do anything.

Sending strength.

EDIT TO ADD:

I told her I want to fuck her best friend in front of her as revenge, and she agreed. This chick has wanted to be with me for a while, and never hid it. So I knew she’d agree, but I mostly said I wanted to to hurt my wife and get even. I don’t even know if I want to actually do it.

That's not going to fix anything, I think you know that. But it's common to want revenge and to want to get even. Now you would have to deal with her betrayal AND the hurt you caused back to her. It doesn't even anything out, it just adds to the pile of shit.

This was all two days ago, and she keeps pushing to start marriage counseling.

Don't do MC. Demand she go into IC to figure out what is broken with her so she can give you a "why".

I believe that she never met him physically, and I believe none of her friends know. If any of those are compromised, it’s over.

See above. What you need is the whole truth, and time to process. Like I said, she might have already gone past any chance of R. It might be she did worse, and you could still find a way to R if she does the work to be a safe partner again.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 1:16 PM, June 30th (Wednesday)]

Couple of decades ago I worked for a company that used a 17 number code to clock in and out with. I worked there 8 months and all these years later I still remember that number, she knows his phone number.

Since I've had a smart phone I know about 10% of my friends phone numbers but I still remember ex girlfriend's numbers from 25 years ago and the neighbors form 45 years ago.

When my phone decided to show the caller id as numbers instead of names I didn't know anyone...

Expose to APs wife! Research and get that number.

Don’t go through with the sex with friends bit. She will use that against you. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Get tested for STDs and STIs, regardless of what she says. Remember she lied for two years. Directly to you!

One day at a time.

struggles with self-image issues

.

Except she doesnt.

For two years she happily and confidently sent pictures of every part of her body with every toy and contraption and all the guy had to do is say hello.

No man is meeting a woman, escalating from the word go, the contract between them is crystal clear, and that contract is sex.

Not sick. Not unconfident but clear and focused...on cheating.

Cant MC without finding out how many times they "met"

She agreed that I could have a hall pass for revenge, I told her I don’t want it, at least not yet

This is literally the WORST red flag right here. This just oozes guilt. It is absolute confirmation they have been physical in one shape or another. Don't underthink this.

Just stop and think about it; there is no way anyone would send some sexy pics, then when they get caught, they offer a "Hall Pass".

It sounds like she is looking for an "out".

OR

In her mind it justifies the physicality she has done with him.

Good luck.

The comments from the above posters are based on experience. Not only did we live through infidelity, many posters read hundreds of stories.

On discovery, the Waywards make up a pretty story which matches what you discovered and nothing more.

Your WW story about giving her number to a random stranger and sending nudes doesn’t make sense.

And this is why posters here say she’s lying.

A more likely story is that she has developed some sort of relationship with this guy. Oh and are you sure it’s only 1 guy?

Sorry but she knows the number and his last name etc. Two years of sexting yet only his first name. Bull and Shit.

Data recovery by a reliable technician, she pays. If she says no then you go.

One day at a time.