SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You are comfortable with your decisions thus far. They feel right for you. For you, divorce feels to be the right decision.

Some times we allow our minds/thoughts over rule what our inner essence is trying to tell us.

You should try to always listen to that inner man, that inner you, because at the end of the day, that person, you will have to live with for ever.

If you have doubts, recheck..

I told her that she killed my pride and my self-confidence. At this time she was trying to interrupt me saying things like I wasn’t inferior and shouldn’t be humiliated and that nothing I did made her have an A

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I find myself wondering, if the tables were turned and you had asked her to say, oh I don’t know, asked her to clean all the bedding in your room and she later found out it was so you could screw your side piece on freshly laundered sheets, would she feel it wasn’t the ultimate slap in the face? Would she not be equally humiliated?

She played you for a fool for 2 years (that you know of and frankly I’m suspicious of that) so how can she say that you shouldn’t be humiliated.

Go over your options with the lawyer.

Get more info before making a decision to subject yourself to her any longer than is absolutely necessary..

After years of therapy she might be a changed woman ( or not)

But will she be better than all the other people you could share your life with going fwd ?

2 years that you know of with active contempt during the cheating ( heater ) .... i cant see how anyone is worth a second chance after that personally

But your decision should be based on who you are and what you want out of your life .

Great idea for both of you to go to IC

So what she is doing is trying to buy you off with the property, to even the score of what she has already stolen, the "special" the "one and only". You and I know the value of the "one and only". Does she think that the offer of the property equals what she stole? We know that she can never give back what she stole. Does she? Also as has been pointed out she is still trying to be in control. She wants what she wants, not want you want. As I said before you will heal faster with out her continued influence. While the hug from behind felt good, if you stay the physical will bring pain and in the end hurt more than you can know right now. She wants to prove she can be a safe loving trust worthy partner, wasn't that what her vows to you were for? She said she wasn't going to give up the house she knows you need for your business, see she still all in it for her. She knows if she has to move out people will know the rumors are true, and she still doesn't want to be known as the adulterous woman. If she says she wants the house because it has sentimental value to her like when she was looking at it like the place she left to be with POSOM "in her fantasy"? No she still wants control. Take the time you need, talk to your attorney and above all do what's best for you. She had "2" two years to build her future, you are still in your second month. Stay strong

Insofar as helping you make a decision, one of the things I did was to visualize a worst case scenario after a divorce: Me living in a shitty apartment, sleeping on a futon, driving a rust bucket car. I did this and was very specific about visualizing it.

Thumos, first of all I want to thank you and everyone here for the much needed pep talk and wake up call. I admit that she almost had me believe that she's remorseful.Thank you all for explaining that her offer was still about her need.

Thumos, I did visualize the worst case scenario after Divorce many times, and fortunately for me it wouldn't be as dramatic as yours , I'm so sorry about your case,I wish nothing but the best for you, my worst case will leave me withlittle less than $300K in my back account, I won't have my business but should have no issue finding a job tomorrow if I wanted to.it would also mean that my son and my 4 employees will be out of job which is sad. my son is not even 21 yet so he'll be fine but he wouldn't have the special treatment he's gotten from working for me. I don't know how she would keep the main house without me .its value is much higher than our rental's. I wouldn't be able to keep it without a loan. it is a special house because of the land and an old barn in its back that I'm using for storage and to park my vehicles. I live in the country few miles away from Amish farms so there isn't a way to rent around here. so if I leave the house that means my business is ruined because I won't be able to afford to rent a warehouse and still be profitable. my worst case scenario will force me to sell out and start all over. again financially will not be devastating but there is more than money to it.

I talked to my lawyer and he informed me that her giving up her rights to both properties doesn't mean much in my state. it would only give me the sole power to manage them like if I wanted to sell or rent. but if we divorce I still won't be able to deny her anything. so after all she isn't offering much.

I'm glad that most of you think I was right to be offended by the heater incident. I was afraid that I was exaggerating by thinking this was the worst of all of it.

From AHGuy:

...just wrapped her arms around me and said I’m sorry “AHGuy”...

From squid:

I may be completely wrong , but I think she is reading here. You should go back through your posts and edit out names. She seems to be focusing on specific aspects.

Squid may be right - did she actually call you “AHGuy”?

My guess is she is reading here also. Any search of infidelity and this place pops right up. She sounds like she is exploring everything. So what I’m telling you is probably moot.

Post nups often don’t hold a lot of water. Especially if a judge deems them to be too one sided, and signed under duress.

Best bet is divorce her now while she still has some shame and wants to get back. Promise her anything. You will date, get remarried, let her still fuck her friend. Then get the best deal you can and go back on everything you promised like she did with her wedding vows.

If she truly does find remorse, you have the option to let her win you back. Strike now!!

I talked to my lawyer and he informed me that her giving up her rights to both properties doesn't mean much in my state. it would only give me the sole power to manage them like if I wanted to sell or rent. but if we divorce I still won't be able to deny her anything. so after all she isn't offering much.

That's one of main reasons why the D must go forward (financially wise), then you will see if she puts her money where her mouth is. She knows keeping your business is important to you, she could surrender the main house in the D separation of assets, or you can offer to pay her share with a loan, it could possibly be in the form of a promissory note to her (a personal loan) where you agree to pay her in installments over a period of time, maybe 72 months or something like that, the house could be put in a trust for your children and not have to be sold, run it by her and talk to your attorney, if she refuses then prepare for battle.

Squid may be right - did she actually call you “AHGuy”?

no she didn't, she called my first name. Honesty I don't care if she reads this thread it's not like I'm hiding anything here.

and knowledge that I wasn’t good enough as a husband to her.

Do you mean this? Is this what you believe?

of course not, that was based on her messages to the POSOM. and her letter to me saying that she wasn't happy before her A and was considering a divorce.

She most likely wants to keep that house for appearances, if I remember correctly you mentioned you needed the house for your business, I would counter with something like this:

1) The old M has to get its "death certificate" that's the D decree.

I agree and I told her that in a different term.

2) You keep the family house and she keeps the rental but she would have to move out.

won't be fair to her the rental is half the value of the main house, plus she can't move in to it because it is already occupied and it is located in a bad neighborhood that wouldn't be safe for a single woman.

3) Everything else gets split 50/50.

not much left after the 2 properties other than an IRA, a saving account and my business including 6 vehicles and a bunch of tools.

4) You promise to go to IC and she needs to do the same for at least 1 year, if eventually you get to the point where you want to have sex with her again make sure she knows it would be on a FWB basis with no guarantees (make sure she shows you her STD test results), and that even after that 1st year you could date other people should you want to, but she could not (she already did it behind your back). After the two year mark (the length of her A) you could make the decision to allow her back in the house but that doesn't mean you will remarry her, that you may even decide to be exclusive and live with her but that remarrying her may never happen.

with all respect Buffer, I do respect your opinion but I'm not gonna bring up any of this at least not at this moment.

5) If this wasn't her first rodeo she needs to come clean NOW and will be subject to more than one polygraph tests that she will have to pay for if needed.

A polygraph!! wow do you think it's necessary? I do want to know if she had other affairs and do want to know all the details, do not ask me why, I just do.

6) Needless to say if POSOM resumes trying to contact her in any form, she should ignore him, block him and tell you immediately.

she said that she blocked him and would force a restraining order. remember that was the flipping point for him when he went from nicing her out to calling her B word and a cheap ass

7) The church gang is NOT to intervene in anyway, she may consult the pastor but you are not to be pressured to meet with him or anyone else

she did mentioned him today and how he is willing to help. BTW he is a certified marriage counselor according to her.

So what she is doing is trying to buy you off with the property, to even the score of what she has already stolen, the "special" the "one and only". You and I know the value of the "one and only". Does she think that the offer of the property equals what she stole?

I know Stillbleeding7, there isn't a thing she can offer for that stolen special feeling to be the one and only.

I don't think she has found this site but she is probably looking up websites to help her find what to say. Which in itself is not a bad thing. She is scrambling to find the right things to say as her carefully cultivated church going image is in shambles. That also might be a reason why she wants to get back. See my husband forgave me why can't you.

So while she is willing you must get that divorce done. Tell her that you are willing to try after the divorce and see if you can rebuild a relationship after that. If her tears are true and she wants you she will agree. If you find that she uses the divorce as as reason to chase other guys then you will know that you did the right thing anyway.

She said that her affair was 100% on her and it was a symptom of her bad state of mind that she’s been having for the last 4 years. She said pastor helped her understand this

What does this even mean? What caused the bad state of mind when she was so successful in her chosen profession? What about the 2 years preceding that when her behaviour and attitude started it's metamorphosis?

Sounds like spin. Maybe it isn't. It will take considerable time to find out. Is it worth it? It is your decision and your life and not those of us with unknown faces. But, would it be worth it?

AHGuy,

Glad you’re staying strong. I agree with what most everyone is saying – this is still just all about her. One of the things I’ve noticed is you’ve gotten a lot of advice to ask some hard questions – especially about the several years before she got together with OM. I think most on here believe this was not her first rodeo. If you’re firmly in the D camp, there’s not much need to torture yourself with more details. On the other hand, if you still think there is even a small chance of R, you definitely need to drill down on this. If you stay together without knowing all the facts and the truth,, this will always be the elephant in the room and probably sabotage a successful.

That must have been a tough talk. I only have one point The I’m sorry. Of course she’s sorry that she got caught and blew up everyone’s world. Of course she now sees your pain and wants it to end. Of course she is sorry that her kids are now going to live with this forever and of course she’s sorry that her job and standard of living are at risk.

But one thing. If she hadn’t gotten busted by obs, is there any doubt whatsoever she would still bet at it? Has she shown you anything to make you believe that by now, right now, the A would have been history?

So how much is her being sorry now worth? Don’t be taken in by this. It is meaningless.

I admit that she almost had me believe that she's remorseful.

There's no reason to believe she is (and no reason to believe she isn't). No one here knows her mind. You are actually the best judge of it because of how long you've known her.

My WH betrayed me every bit as badly as your WW, and worse in some instances because it was multiple partners and he went out looking for it. The things he said and did while he was cheating were utterly disrespectful and largely done in anger. He treated me reprehensibly before and during his affairs, like there was a big bullseye on my forehead, where all his angst and dissatisfaction with life was directed.

For my part, at the time all I knew was that my WH had been treating me horribly for YEARS. There's a ramp-up period, a period where he's nursing his imagined grievances and growing his resentment. This leads to a period of time where he's crossing boundaries, searching out affair partners, and getting up his courage to actually go through with the betrayal. All this time is spent rerouting the circuitry of his thought pattern, doing the mental gymnastics to demonize me enough so, in his mind, I DESERVE to be mistreated.

So, there he was hating me, and as you might guess, there I was hating him right back. But within a WEEK of DDay, he was begging me for time, begging me for a chance to prove himself. And... I gave it to him.

Just like no BS is prepared for the way they're going to feel and respond after DDay, I submit to you that no WS is either. I was always CERTAIN that if my spouse cheated, I'd be out. And he had got me to the point where I felt like I truly hated him, so you could have knocked me down with a feather at the realization that I still actually loved my husband. So, if that's true for me, why couldn't it be true for him???

We talk about the behavior of the WS as being in "fantasy", but I don't think the word does justice to the real life thoughts and actions of the WS. "Fantasy" suggests that they know all along it's not real. But I don't think they do. I think it's more like starting down a wrong path but not realizing that you're going the wrong way until you can see the path behind you being barricaded so you can't return. All of a sudden, the realization dawns that you've been going the wrong way and all you want is to get back on that right path. Of course, that's not all WS's, but for some... yes, I think they snap right out of it. It happened to my WH, and as a BS... it happened to me. So, I KNOW it's possible.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to change your mind. But the whole idea that no WS could ever be remorseful or that the change can't be sudden is just wrong. I'm hoping you'll make your decisions on what's best for YOU and what you want for YOUR life going forward, not based on any misinformation. A BS never owes R. It's our choice to give or to withhold that gift. And if we're smart, we base that decision singularly on our own needs, not on what we think might happen or on what other people might want. This is the one time in life where it's GOOD to be completely self-centered, because whatever choice you make is one you're going to need to live with. In order to heal properly, we eventually need to take ownership of our choice.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 7:53 PM, August 17th (Monday)]

Require her to write down a detailed timeline of her A, as much as she can remember. Maybe not so detailed as “held hands at the office for 2 minutes”, but the milestones, beginning, first physical, etc. Ask for as many sexual details as you think you need, but make sure you REALLY want to hear the details before you ask. You can’t stuff that cat back into the bag once it’s out. They had a 2 year A, I’m sure you can use your imagination... but to hear the details and circumstances is a different kind of heartbreak. Some people are satisfied enough with “they had sex, that is wrong”. Others need more detail, like myself. Neither is wrong, just be prepared.

Ask her point blank, face to face, if there was ever anybody else. She’ll be caught off guard by the question, and her reactions and expressions will tell you all you need to know. If she was making bad decisions for 4 years, but the A was only 2 years, then there’s a gap in there she needs to account for.

Overall you’re doing great. I was kind of like you after DDAY, I went full on 180 and basically ghosted her, even though we still lived together. But as you’ve seen, the 180 can only take you so far, and eventually you do have to talk to her.

Polygraph is to understand whether she is speaking the truth. Mainly to help you if you see yourself trying to reconcile with her. It may even give you an idea if she will be honest and fair during the divorce process. But if you definitely plan to divorce then in my opinion there is not need for poly. Best thing to do is move quick because dragging this out will cause pain for you and your children.

Ahguy, I only posted a strategy to counter offer because you mentioned being in a "dilemma" which lead me to believe you were considering her offer but of course you don't even have to counter if you don't want to and move straight to D, but keep in mind what may be "fair" to you may not necessarily be "fair" to her, that's why filing for D now is so important and to see if she would really put her money where her mouth is. As far as the rental, you could have it appraised and offer to deduct your share of it towards paying for her share of the main house, that way it's easier to for you to pay her for the difference and you don't have to waste money on commission fees (she knows about that), inspection fees, loan fees, and closing costs of both properties, that's more money for you both to keep.

A polygraph!! wow do you think it's necessary? I do want to know if she had other affairs and do want to know all the details, do not ask me why, I just do.

Ahguy if you go back to the very second day you posted here a month ago (page 4 of your first original thread) you will find that poster Robert22205https mentioned it for the first time:

IMO, you should insist on a timeline (subject to a polygraph).

Why? regardless of whether you decide to R or D

Besides that, myself, BeyondRage and others have consistently insisted that you asked her the tough questions and a complete written timeline subject to a polygraph, and that one of the questions should be if there are other instances of infidelity besides she has not disclosed besides the 2 year LTA since her change in behavior/lifestyle/GNOs started way before that one according to her. I know all of it may be hard to absorb, but if you read here long enough you will find that the need of a polygraph is mentioned in the overwhelming majority of cases here in JFO, why ? simply because cheaters LIE a lot and often just admit to what the BS/OBS can prove, a polygraph often leads to what we call a "parking lot confession" right before, during and or after the test, and if she passes with "flying colors" it at least gives more weight and reassurance to her claim that she's now telling the truth.

But before the poly you first need to ask the tough questions yourself, during the poly you only get to ask between 4 or 5 questions (so make them count), however most people don't know that, that's why I and some others suggest you ask as many questions as you need the answers to, plus she won't know for certain which ones will come up on the polygraph test, we've been telling you and (I'm glad your dad agrees) that you have to face this head on and that now is the best time for you to get answers when she still overwhelmed, in "guilty mode" and trying desperately to prove to you she she's now "trustworthy".

AH

I loved the part when she was focusing on the last call and you told her that it didn’t matter, what mattered was the two year A.

Spectacular my friend.

Ahguy, you have expressed the "need to know" and this is normal, your M and family life have been a big part and probably the most important part of your life, so yes the "need to know" is very normal and your chances of getting to the truth increase dramatically with the use of a polygraph, again it is a tool that (like the VAR that OBS used) has stood the test of time in lots of different cases here and in other forums.

There's a reason why polygraphs are used by the FBI, CIA and other agencies worldwide, based on studies polygraphs have between 75-85% accuracy, to me and many others that beats hands down the word of a proven cheater and liar, then again, they often lead to parking lot confessions and other admissions. We may even help you with some of the questions based on what you posted, then the polygraph examiner will fine tune them for the actual test.

(edited for bold letters).

[This message edited by Buster123 at 8:19 PM, August 17th (Monday)]