SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What the hell happened to her?

That is the million dollar question my friend.

Have you encouraged her to seek professional help yet in order for her to get the answers to this very question?

Because in order for het yo even begin this process a few things have to happen.

She needs to stop crying over her mess and become rational in every day matters.

She has to maintain no contact with the om.

You need to be able to have nonemotional interaction with your wife. Blame or arguments solve nothing. In fact that behavior just adds decay to the situation.

And most of all your wife needs to know that giving you additional truth/insights into her affair/s will not further damage the marriage at this time.

At this time means you reserve the right to walk away or stay at a later date.

Have a great weekend. When do see/talk to your girls?

HM

Whallup,

I generally blab on, but in this case I think that you are honestly on target for a seperation, I am not trying to influence you, but it's pretty clear from being on here and through this which way you are leaning.

My STRONG suggestion is to treat her like the mother of your children. She lost your respect, perhaps forever, but the bigger tragedy would you losing respect in yourself.

Your biggest responsibility in life is your children's health, most mental and physical. You are on the trajectory for divorce (again, just stating the obvious), then PLEASE look at it from the context of setting up future co-parenting success.

There is obviously some more baseball to play before that decision, but it's not like you can't start preparing for possible outcomes.

What the hell happened to her?

You will never, ever know. Chances are she'll never figure it out. On top of that even if she does she probably will not tell you.

Who knows, it might, but the odds are astronomical against it.

That is not true.

The WS has to be truly remorseful. The WS has too also want to know why he/she could hurt their Spouse so badly.

The WS has to acknowledge they acted so selfishly and come up with a plan to end their selfishness.

The "I love you's" are rarely real between the cheaters. But to the loyal spouse they feel devastating.

Nothing is insurmountable. If infidelity was insurmountable their would be no successful R's.

Heck, if infidelity was insurmountable no one would be getting married Eric.

But it takes both spouses to repair or renew the marriage. Not one.

[This message edited by happyman64 at 4:17 PM, August 14th (Friday)]

Wife came home last night. Knew it was going to happen, I had spoken to my SIL Wednesday night. Before I get to that, I’ll tell you a bit about what my SIL told me. It was a very long conversation. She wanted to let me know everything my wife was going through and their conversations. Apparently, my wife was really not doing well. Very good call to have her there for a few days. She wasn’t eating. Spent most of the day curled up in bed. Cried 24/7. A lot of self pity. Things like, “He must hate me.” “I hate me.” “How could I do this to him?” A lot of her comments early on were from her POV and focused inward. She feels like her perfect world has fallen apart. She doesn’t know what’s going to happen and that scares her. POS being Prince Charming turned out to be a mirage and she blew up her real life in the process, with nothing to show for it except damage to everyone in her life, including herself. She feels very alone. She also assumes I’m going to divorce her (“I would if I were in his shoes.”), and the impact that will have on her and the kids terrifies her. And it’s worse for her because it’s all her own doing.

I asked if my wife was remorseful at all as it seemed everything was about her. Apparently my wife is having a very hard time dealing with the impact of her actions on me. My SIL said that’s when she hits her lowest points. Graywolf threw out cognitive dissonance. According to my SIL, every time I was brought up, my pain, what I’m going through, my wife wouldn’t discuss it. She’s having a very hard time dealing with the fact that she was the cause of so much pain to me. And her defense mechanism for now seems to be not to face that piece of it.

She’s also super angry at POS. Feels betrayed. Like she was nothing but a convenient hole for him to use. My SIL was gentle, but said she didn’t hold back and told her that’s exactly what she was. And that if she feels this betrayed by a guy she knew for less than a year and was only emotionally involved with for around 5 months, imagine how I must feel. My SIL said my wife didn’t take that very well. My SIL told her she was on her side and there for her, but that also means making sure she understands and knows the right things, not just consoling her over the wrong things. That she needs to get her head out of her ass and see the truth of it all. Who POS was, what he was doing and was after, who she was before and during the affair, the wrongs she did, the harm to herself, the damage to me and the kids. My wife wanted to call POS to yell at him and call him every name she could think of – but my SIL talked her out of it (yay SIL!). Reminded her about NC and that the best way to get back at him was to ignore him and work on us. Work on herself.

Speaking of POS, so far no contact. I checked my wife’s email (I have her password from the key logger program), and I also set up an online message thing from Verizon where I can see al texts (both sides) on Verizon’s website. Checked her phone when she got home – no incoming calls (we did change her number) and no outgoing ones either.

Anyway, my SIL took my wife to her doctor’s appointment for STD / HIV testing on Wednesday. Said my wife really didn’t want to go – knew she needed to, but was too embarrassed – and that she had to threaten her to get her to go. My wife was thoroughly humiliated and had to admit she cheated on me to the doc. Got tested for STD’s / HIV / HPV and Hepatitis. First results expected next week. No sores or anything visible (thank God).

So the above is all well and good, but I don’t know how much of this to believe and what it means to me. I’m a little bit cynical about my SIL, which is a shame, because she’s a wonderful person. Maybe this is an outcome of have someone you trusted more than anyone in the world betray you, but I question everything now. How do I know my SIL is telling me the truth? Is she coloring it because she wants to help her sister and she thinks this will do that? Basically, in the end, words are fine, but it’s what my wife actually does and how she acts that matter.

So, she came back last night. She didn’t look good. She wouldn’t look at me at first. Just said hello and brought her bags into the bedroom. I kept thinking “180! 180!” I did my own thing. The boys were all over her. Told her everything we did while she was gone. She was very, very touchy-feely with them. She gave them dinner, hung out with them, and put them to bed. After, she kinda wandered around the house. Later, she asked me how my few days were (I didn’t respond in kind). I told her. I said I was okay given the circumstances. Work. That me and the boys had fun, but they missed her and need her. She thanked me for everything I did with the boys and vowed to be there for them and the girls. We’ll see. I told her I took a day off and went ATV-ing and to the movies with my brother. She had the strangest look on her face. I think it floored her. I know from my SIL how she was over the past few days and here she heard me say I was out having a good time. She asked be about my visit to the attorney. I told her it was informative. She took it well. Quiet. Reserved. Just nodded. Told her about the Cease & Desist (she thanked me for that). Interestingly, she commented on the fact that the bed was made up exactly as she had left it. She tried not to show it but that must’ve had a lot of significance to her. She wanted to know if I thought I’d ever come back to the bedroom. I simply said I didn’t know. We agreed to talk more over the weekend about a bunch of things, including the kids, and then proceeded to ignore each other for the rest of the evening. Well, not really ignore. I made a point of doing things I like doing. Was reading on my kindle (pretended to anyway – can’t even tell you what book it was), read a few articles on line, etc. She mostly tidied up, would watch me every now while pretending not to watch me. She didn’t say I love you or I’m sorry or anything like that. As I said, she was really subdued and quiet. She did thank me for “letting” her come back home. I told her it’s her home too. And that was it.

So I’m not really looking forward to the weekend. My biggest concerns are twofold: a) locking down therapists for each of us, and b) getting more info – written timeline, I know I don’t know everything (and the impact of knowing everything) and I need to. What fun.

[This message edited by Walloped at 11:29 AM, August 14th (Friday)]

I hear some remorse but I hear a TON of fear.

Alaska77 - This is key for me. I know she's not leaving me for POS. She has said she only wants me. I know she's terrified of divorce. But I don't want her saying all the right things out of fear. I want them because she means them and is remorseful, even if it means we divorce. Divorce or reconciliation should have no bearing on how she feels about what she's done. What I do know is that this needs to be proven to me through deeds in order for me to go down the reconciliation path.

toomanyregrets - Sorry for not replying sooner, but when I read your post I just blanked out. I sat there staring at the monitor with one hand over my mouth for what seemed like 10 minutes. STD's - people have mentioned. Check. But pregnancy? I never even thought about it. Yes, she's on the pill. But what happens if? I don't even know how to answer this. I'm just going to pray that she's not. God - talk about being walloped upside the head. Not going any further than that. Just leave it at that.

every time I was brought up, my pain, what I’m going through, my wife wouldn’t discuss it.

THIS is a red flag. This highlights the difference between regret and remorse.

Regret = I'm so sorry this happened. Look how it's affecting ME, MY life, and now I feel like shit about myself, might lose my comfy lifestyle, etc.

Remorse = I'm so sorry I did this to YOU. What can I do to make it up to YOU. I will do anything to make YOU feel better because what I did was horrible and hurt YOU. Tell me about YOUR pain.

If she can't discuss or acknowledge your pain yet, she isn't remorseful. She's still focused on how stupid she was to fall for OM's bullshit and the fact that maybe, just maybe, she was behaving like a whore.

Just sayin.

don't let her cry on you. that's a defense mechanism she's learned to gain sympathy. when she starts, just stop the discussion until she can talk like an adult.

And she wasn't naive. I don't buy that. She knew what she was doing. Let me give a brief example of what might be a naive woman.

she believes men and women can be friends. she has a man who is her best friend at work. they work on a lot of projects together and she just "loves" him. They go to a conference, she has too much to drink so he walks her to her room. He comes inside and starts to kiss her. Then he rides her like a pony.. She wakes up the next morning horrified. She either breaks off all contact with him or confesses to her husband. THATS a naive woman.

Your wife doesn't fit that bill. Let me ask you, and I'm sorry if it triggers you, but I'm trying to get you to be completely sober about this. Do you think she came home and kissed you after having sex with him? Just a peck on the cheek after she's been sucking him off? How about this? Is it possible you got sloppy seconds? You said at the end they were having sex 2-3 times a week. Or... on one day when she was volunteering, in reality having a three-hour fuckathon, did you ever feel in the mood but she turned you down because she was exhausted from the volunteer work?

I'm sorry, but that's not a naive woman. That's not a little girl that needs your protection. That's someone who betrayed you and knew she was doing it.

don't let her cry.

Default Posted: 11:12 AM, August 14th (Friday), 2015 View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is not true.

The WS has to be truly remorseful. The WS has too also want to know why he/she could hurt their WS so badly.

The WS has to acknowledge they acted so selfishly and come up with a plan to end their selfishness.

The "I love you's" are rarely real between the cheaters. But to the loyal spouse they feel devastating.

Nothing is insurmountable. If infidelity was insurmountable their would be no successful R's.

Heck, if infidelity was insurmountable no one would be getting married Eric.

But it takes both spouses to repair or renew the marriage. Not one.

With all due respect, every one of her actions supports the premise that she was in love with her boyfriend. Hell, when they were caught they were in the midst of escalating the relationship to the point where she was basically was living with/making love to him every second she wasn't covering for herself at home.

And reconciliation does occur. Over 50% cases end in divorce post-infidelity. Factor in that that includes One Night Stands and isn't taking into consider all the poor souls paralyzed by limbo and building on top of it that this is one of the worst cases of betrayal I've read here, I think that it is safe to say that the burden of proof isn't on Whall.

Good update, Walloped. You'll learn that I'm not of the Monty Python "Burn Her!" variety.

Again. Day by day. You'll get through the weekend. It isn't a half bad time to go to church and kick the faith up a notch. He's there for you both.

Thanks for the updates.

Has she found herself an IC?

How is your hunt for a good IC for yourself going?

Best wishes

THIS is a red flag. This highlights the difference between regret and remorse.

nekorb - Yes. And the question I have is whether she isn't remorseful and is just scared, or is it that she is remorseful (or getting there) but she's terrified to look inward and she has no clue how to deal with what she did and the pain she inflicted and what it says about her as a person. I don't know. But that's what I'm looking out for.

Your wife doesn't fit that bill...I'm sorry, but that's not a naive woman...Is it possible you got sloppy seconds?

mike7 - No, I won't. She's done that in the past. I'm not allowing the crying thing. Now to the question of her being naive, no. Not the way you laid it out. To not seeing people's ulterior motives though? Yes, she is. She generally things will work out for the best. People are basically good. It's like a protective wall she's built. To be happy. Positive. I know why too - mostly. So the way I see it, I see her naivete allowing her to look at POS as inherently a good person (volunteers time with terminally ill children), and not see any red flags. I am not excusing her. What I'm saying is that I don't believe (yet) that this was a contscientious "I'm looking for an affair." I do think her naivete alloweed her to get emotionally involved where the physical part might have been a natural growth / extension. How she was able to do what you say in the rest of your post - I have no idea. Maybe other WS's can answer that. Compartmentalizing? I have no clue.

As far as the second thing I quoted you goes. That's kept me up at night. It's on my list of questions to ask her. Yes - I have a long list. Surprised? Anyway, it's possible. I hope not. I really, really hope not, and I'd like to think she wouldn't do that to me, but I'm not entirely sure just what she's capable of, so who knows? I just hope she's honest either way about it. I'd rather know what I'm dealing with than her being dishonest and not telling me to "protect me."

W

IMO she needs to get a job not as a punishment but to acieve two things:

1 the sence of financial.independence. besides alimoney and CS among others, she needs to realice that she can be indepedent in orther to decide if she rrally wants you or is just araid of D. I know money doesnt meam anything bit it is part of it and more when you have kids.

2 to lose the useless feeling she may be experiencing, besides to get het some POM when at work.

Other thing, she said that if she were on your shoes she woukd D? does it mean that she knew the risk and even then she did it? was she counthing on OM to be for her amd be happy ever after?

I posted tgis before but you shoukd ask her if they ever talked about your W leaving you to ne with OM. Also ask her if she was willing to leave you even if she and OM split at the end. IMO she is or was so out of your marriage for a long time.

Mrhealed - good points on her getting a job. It doesn't solve all issues but is a good step regardless.

Regarding leaving me, I think I said this in one of my first posts, but she swore it never crossed her mind. She freaked when I asked her if she was leaving me for him, and was shocked by the question. This was her fantasy land, I guess. I don't know - definitely something we'll need to expore.

The impression I got from my SIL was her divorce comment was one borne out of self-pity more than anything else. That she doesn't deserve mercy or something - at least that was the context I took it based on the tone my SIL conveyed.

Hobbes - Narrowed IC's down to two. I actually have friends in the field, but I'm not going to them, and didn't want to ask for rec's for a "friend" either. I did general internet searches, but the two I am looking at come from my brother's SIL. I didn't ask her about her search, but will over the weekend.

[This message edited by Walloped at 1:04 PM, August 14th (Friday)]

So here we have a guy who is fairly new JFO. From his posts it is clear he is in the height of mental turmoil and emotional overload that all BSs go thru during their JFO period. He reports, repeatedly, that he can't get the mind movies to stop and they are making him crazy.

So tell me please --- how is it helpful to ask him if he thinks he has had sloppy seconds or if he has ever thought that maybe his wife had come home and kissed him after having just been with OM sucking on him? How does it help him move on to tell him that all signs point to his W truly being in love with OM? And those are just recent examples.

In R Forum there is a post by GettingInTune where this kind of "help" was addressed by other posters. I didn't add my 2 cents there but I will say it here.

I am a long term survivor and my M survived. I Made a lot of mistakes during a lengthy R process. Many would call me crazy, weak or whatever if the whole story was laid out. But I/we made it. And I am glad we did and, this very day, celebrating our 45th. While I think SI is beyond fantastic and wish it had been around in 1985, some of the things laid on Walloped and other JFO posters would, had they been piled on me, possibly been enough to derail my determination and efforts.

People, please ask yourself if what you are typing will be comforting or at least helpful without exacerbating the raw wounds a BS is suffering.

Off the soapbox; end of rant.

[This message edited by 1985 at 1:15 PM, August 14th (Friday)]

In regards to your possible divorce there are some suggestions to consider.

1. As already suggested, have her get a job.

2. Consider if it's possible to move to a better state that would be more fair to you in the divorce due to the infidelity.

3. Consider having her agree to divorce terms that are more agreeable to you outside of a court hearing. I'm not so sure NOW is the time since she is wallowing in self-pity and fear, but if she gets closer to actual remorse then I would take her to your lawyer with an agreed upon division of assets.

4. A post-nuptial probably wouldn't be much of an upper hand since it doesn't LOOK like she'll cheat again, but it's something to consider.

OK. I think you're on the right track walloped. I actually think you might be right about her. I do believe "the fog" to some degree. I think that people can compartmentalize. However, I don't accept that as an excuse. I could care less what the fog is or isn't. I only think it's useful in trying to understand.

The reason I gave you my first post is that I want you to take your time and think this through. Your mind will most likely change many times.

Why did I choose R? For the usual reasons. History. Why should many happy years be outweighed by a few months of insanity? We have kids together. Hopefully grandchildren some day. We know each other. Despite everything, I know she's a good person, etc. Religion, forgiveness, blah, blah.

Also.... the thought of getting involved with another woman just seemed like work. Maybe I'm tired, but it seems to me that I don't have the energy to learn someone else. Everyone has baggage. How do I know the next person would be any better? I don't particularly want to be alone. Who wants to go to Venice by themselves?

And.... most importantly. She put in the effort and endured. When I found out, I told her to get out and offered her enough money that she would never have to work. she refused. And I was probably emotionally abusive for some time afterword. I really hammered her at the beginning. She felt she deserved it. IMO she did. She was remorseful and was willing to do anything, anything. If I told her I wanted to run a marathon with her next year, she would google it today and start preparing. In the end, I started to admire the effort she was putting in especially considering how I was. You see, in order to survive I detached. I figured if she didn't have my back, I needed to have my back. I even went to afghanistan for two years. I came back 50 pounds lighter and "hard." Lean and mean. I was no longer the easy going guy.

A remorseful wayward is kind of a heroic figure. They know they did the wrong thing. They humbly admit this. They put in the work, the sweat, only to realize that you don't feel the same way about them anyway. And yet they keep trying. Week after week, month after month for little crumbs of affection. And I started to admire that. I started to think again that it was "us against the world." Sure, we've taken injuries, but we're standing. And I know she won't leave me. And in the end, I love her.

if that gives you hope, then good luck. Just remember, she has to really put in the effort.

I hope this is not to direct but….

In your first post you seemed puzzled more so because it seemed you two were very happy, the idea she would cheat was such a shock.

If you didn’t know then, and you didn’t know during any of the 25 or 30 days (times) she had sex with him, then how could you ever know if she is regretful or remorseful?.....how can you ever trust anything from her? There is simply no way to ever confirm it.

This was the main lesson I learned on this site, while reading the thread from Spaceghost007. It completely changed my perspective. I too am rooting for you to leave her, not because I want her to feel pain, but because you deserve true happiness.

I don’t think you can ever have the confidence to trust her again, to find true confidence. Once you know, there is no going back.

And as Spaceghost said in better words, she deserves someone better than the person you now are, because you will forever see her as the slut who threw it all away.

If there is a chance to R and truly trust again when WW cheated while in a “great” marriage, anyone please explain.

...that he can't get the mind movies to stop and they are making him crazy.

So tell me please --- how is it helpful to ask him if he thinks he has had sloppy seconds or if he has ever thought that maybe his wife had come home and kissed him after having just been with OM sucking on him? How does it help him move on to tell him that all signs point to his W truly being in love with OM?

1985 - Thank you. I'm not attacking anyone for asking questions or making statements. But I think I go away to a different place when I see these type of questions. Like when I signed the form for my dad's internment. Almost as if it wasn't me writing it out. The sexual things I quoted above nearly made me throw up in my office when I read it. See also my post on the birth control question I got. But, I just assumed this is how it's done - that these are the 2x4's people keep referencing.

I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth and this place and all of you have been such a gift. I'm grateful. I get the sense people think I'm being clear-headed or detached or on top of things. I'm not. Really not. Maybe it all comes natural to me, I don't know, but I feel like I'm flying by the seat of my pants and just following my instincts, but my insides are all chewed up. I've got 3 boxes of Kleenex on my desk at work. My co-works / staff know something's not right and have asked me if everything's okay cause they can see my red and teary eyes. I claim allergies. Of course it's bull. They know it and I know they know it, but you know how corporate America is - no one will comment on it. Except my admin - she came in, told me not to say a word and that she just wanted me to know that if I needed anything I should just let her know.

I guess, my point is, if you feel that asking / saying these things is helpful for me - then by all means, please continue to do so. I'm a big boy. I'll take it. Doesn't mean it doesn't have a real effect on me though.