SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

eric1 - Yeah. I know this. Sort of. But it's wishful thinking on my part. That she truly does but compartmentalized or lost herself or something, and that it doesn't mean her feelings for me changed. I know it's foolish. I do. But this is simlpy me holding on to a very thin thread to keep me sane at this point. I know you think I'm being clear-headed, and I can still crack a joke, but in reality I'm barely hanging on. My kids are pushing me. My job is pushing me. Forcing me to stay focused. But as soon as that adrenaline stops kicking me in the ass, I'm a very different person than what my posts here sound like. So this is me relishing my fantasy world for a short while at least. Until that bubble bursts.

I know, I hear you 100% man. One of the tacts that we take here is to be very forceful and straightforward. It's not out of disrespect for you, but because we understand that fantasy world. The more than we can be on point and provide you direct feedback, it'll counteract the WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING TO MY LIFE feeling.

But you know what? It'll change. I can promise you that from the bottom of my heart (my offer to kick me in the balls if this doesn't happen still stands). It will still suck. But at some point you'll be fighting a battle with an enemy in broad daylight rather than an unknown enemy attackng you from the trees. Right now the rocks are falling from above and all you can do is flinch because you don't know how many enemies are out there, how big the rocks are and how many they have. Once the sun rises and you see those motherfuckers up there, then it changes. You get pissed off at them. You're not helpless. You want to kill them. The anger stage will be on you and it's white hot fuel will keep you going for weeks.

FWIW I disagree with the posters talking about a time for making a decision. Some people it happens in a few weeks, some flounder around for years. Just know that you are better off knowing you'll need to make a decision of some sorts. You're not there yet though.

What don't you want to be? You don't want to be this dude http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=567495 .

[This message edited by eric1 at 1:36 PM, August 13th (Thursday)]

Walloped, I know the terrible pain you are going thru. Time will bring more clarity to what you want an need to do. Google WAYNE & TAMARA MITCHELL. They are relationship councilors, see what they have to say about infidelity. They helped me make the correct decision.

W

How are your kids doing?

how are theu dealing with your wife not being home?

IMO you shoukd take all the time you need to gwt your self toguether and decide but you need to design a plan to protect your kids from this mess.

Unfortunatly you will need your wifes full cuoperation about this matter, and she needs to be strong to acomplish it.

good luck

Hey. So, as I promished here's my update. Met with the lawyer Tuesday night. Nice guy. Has seen it all. From congenial separations to full blown War of the Roses type divorces. Anyway, it wasn’t a good time for me to meet with him, emotionally. I was already feeling really low on Tuesday. You saw my posts. Wasn’t in a good place. This made it worse. I gave him a bit of the background. Can I ask a question? Do any of you have difficulty discussing your spouse’s affair with another person? Besides my brother and SIL’s, this was the first time I’ve discussed it so…I don’t know, but I had a really hard time with it. Is it normal to be embarrassed and ashamed about her affair as if it’s your own fault? I get it that it’s not – it’s on her, but I couldn’t help thinking that this guy was judging me and asking himself what kind of shmuck or jackass must I be that my wife would choose to go and hook up with another man (nothing he did by the way – this is on me). I also felt like I was proclaiming my wife to be a Class A Slut (yeah – I know) and that he MUST be thinking what kind of man am I that I would choose a whore for a wife? Somewhere in there I said I couldn’t do this and got up to leave. He was very kind and talked me off the ledge. I think he saw what I was going through and told me that people do things they’re not proud of. Doesn’t mean we’re not good people, and that there’s nothing I can say that he hasn’t heard many times before.

Anyway, apparently if I choose to go the divorce route, her emails and texts can likely be used for grounds based on adultery, but no need since NY is a no-fault state. He gave me the basic rundown. Laid out separation if I want to do that. Talked about divorce. Told me the time frame if I wanted to do that. Discussed splitting assets, spousal support, parenting, custody. Yeah, I’d get screwed across the board. He suggested closing credit cards and opening new ones – for me and her – and basically what to do with savings, college funds, etc. Can I vent for a second? This is nothing new for you, but it is to me. So, it seems that I can spend my life working and providing and dealing with the stress of work and the political corporate bullshit and them my wife can go f***k another guy and if I say, “Hey! I don’t want to remain married because you betrayed me,” she can say okay by me, and then get the house until the kids are of age, custody of the kids, 35% of my income for child support and then alimony to boot. Oh – and then she gets basically half of my 401k and other retirement accounts. WTF??? How in the world is that just? As I said, screwed. Sorry, rant over.

I’m not putting together a separation agreement. At least not yet. We did discuss POS and his now 17 phone calls to my wife. I told him the story and that I spoke to his wife – he laughed about that. Wasn’t surprised that POS was married. Said he’d seen it before. Too many times. Anyway, he’s drafting a Cease and Desist letter, which he will send to POS at both his apartment in Manhattan and at his home in Connecticut (that was my idea – I don’t know if his wife opens his mail or not, but I’m hoping she does). All in all, a good, albeit depressing, meeting, and I now have too many legal terms and related things to think about.

I mentioned in a prior post that I had a really good day yesterday. Here's what happened. I was really, really low Tuesday night. Meeting with the lawyer, the STD tests, my wife not being home (not that I wanted to see her, just the why of it), I had a very hard time coping. On top of that my SIL texted me and wanted to talk to me about my wife. It wasn’t an emergency, she just wanted to give me updates, but I wasn’t in the right frame of mind for that conversation so I asked if we could postpone that for a day or so. I was taking Wednesday off, but I was scared to be alone for the day. So I called my brother and asked if he could spend the day with me. He’s in the nursing home / pharmaceutical sales business, so he has very flexible hours. Told him I didn’t want to talk or think about any of the s**t I was dealing with. I just needed to forget for a little while. Anyway, he got me right away and said yes. He came over in the morning and after getting the boys off to camp, we went for a run and then ate breakfast. He told me not to shower and just get in the car. And then he took me ATV-ing. For those of you in the NY area, you know what the torrential downpours on Tuesday were like. The tracks were a total mess. Perfect. The driving. The adrenaline. The trash talking. The mud. Oh my God, the mud! We had an absolute blast. We laughed. Told inappropriate jokes. Were covered in mud from head to toe. After, we got pizza and smoothies, still covered in dried mud. The looks we got. We then went to his place, showered, ate, and then he took me to see Ant-Man. Shared a big tub of popcorn. He shrieked and squeezed my knee at certain parts like we were on a date. Movie was hysterical – if you liked Guardians of the Galaxy, you’ll like this. Basically, the day was like back when we were teenagers without a care in the world. He wouldn’t let me pay for a thing. His treat. It was literally one of my best days ever. But when he dropped me home, and I saw the house, and all it represented, all the past good, and the current crap, it really hit me hard. And I hugged him and thanked him – he knew just what I needed. I just kept hugging him. And thanking him. For the gift he gave me. The gift of peace and happiness – even for just a day. He just told me to hang in there, to take care of myself, and that he and his wife are there for me always. My brother is awesome and I love him.

Mr.Healed - The boys are fine. Mommy is on a trip to their Aunt and Uncle's so they're cool with that. They're in camp during the day so mornings and evenings is where they'd feel it, but I'm making it guy time. Pokemon, Ticket to Ride, playing ball, PS4, we watched Big Hero 6. Lots of junk food. They also take mixed martial arts once a week (karate, judo, and jiu jitsu) so that's keeping them occupied as well.

What I'm nervous about is that my older girls will be coming home soon and we can't hide this from them - especially if I'm still in the basement. My wife and I need to figure out what we say, but we have to say something.

And yes - she's not doing well according to my SIL, but she'll need to pick herself up for the kid's sake, if not hers or mine.

So, it seems that I can spend my life working and providing and dealing with the stress of work and the political corporate bullshit and them my wife can go f***k another guy and if I say, “Hey! I don’t want to remain married because you betrayed me,” she can say okay by me, and then get the house until the kids are of age, custody of the kids, 35% of my income for child support and then alimony to boot. Oh – and then she gets basically half of my 401k and other retirement accounts. WTF??? How in the world is that just? As I said, screwed. Sorry, rant over.

I know this is going to sound horrible of me, but I think I would tell her I wanted to reconcile but only with a postnup. Then if you do leave her, perhaps your assets will be protected?

I know, I know. Can't believe I really even thought of it either.

Walloped

Good updates. Your brother is great.

Yes u are right about a few things.

The decision when you do make it to R or D is yours.

Your wife does need to step up to the plate now. She needs to stop crying, find a good shrink and get her act together.

And yes your kids will need some measure of truth. You both need to show your kids a unified front.

They need a brief summary of what has taken place, that you as parents love them, care for them but the two of you need to figure out what direction you are heading in.

Just treat them as young adults.

Keep pushing through it. You are doing great.

HM

[This message edited by happyman64 at 7:10 PM, August 13th (Thursday)]

I don't really post here anymore but your story resonated with me (obviously, to many of us).

I'm a year out from this hell on Earth. I just had yet another therapy session today (that's like $5K worth now) and my therapist said I'm STILL unclear as to whether to stay or go. My point is to take your time. You need it. And she may call it a day too (although I seriously doubt that given she's s SAHM). I've often felt that if WS finally said "you know, I can't do the work, I don't actually love you like I say I do (he too has a funny way of showing it), and I'm leaving", I would feel like it's the FIRST TIME he's really been honest with me. Sad, huh?

Couple of other thoughts. My WS gave me high-risk HPV. HPV is spread with or without the condom they never used. But it can take approximately 6 months to start to change the cervical cells into pre-cancerous cells. That's why she needs to get tested now and retested in 6 months. Furthermore, there is no HPV test for men and it can take several years for the virus to leave the body (or turn into cancer). So you see the complications this creates for both of you. Isn't this fun??

Finally, I could not agree more that she needs a full time job immediately. This is such a sore subject for me. The whole "over-stressed life of a SAHM" is just laughable. And I've done it all: full time financial analyst, SAHM, and now I run my own business from home. SAHM stressful? BAHAHAHAHA. It's a cake-walk. You let me know when you're expected to present a review of a $200M proposed project to the CFO and your kid wakes up vomiting everywhere what over stressed really means. SAHM is a huge gift and a huge luxury. And it's her JOB. Not camps, not sleep-away camps, not free time while kids are in school all day. It's so disrespectful to cheat when you're at home and your spouse is slaving away to provide you with your lifestyle. Please keep this in mind as she cries and cries that she's so scared you'll leave her. I hear some remorse but I hear a TON of fear.

You're going to be fine either way. We all are.

I agree with Alaska's SAHM/D comments. She hit the nail on the ehad

Walloped,

I think the real bridge you have to first cross for yourself is if you can get past what she did.If not, SAHM or working Mom means nothing.

There have been a few mentions of if you stay her getting a job. In my opinion the main issue here was your wifes "boundary" problem that allowed her to let him get to her, not the job or no job.

It is true, if she gets a job, she will have less free time on her hands, bit guess what???

Depending on what kind of job she gets, she will probably also have a LOT more direct interaction with MORE men, more invitations to "happy hour" with co workers, and MORE time away from the house.

Most of the literature I have read calls the workplace " the incubator" of affairs. And these affairs are harder to detect and harder to stop.

So while her getting a job if you decide to stay may be what you want her to do, I would certainly NOT look at it as some kind of "protection" against her doing this again. Your WW entered into an affair with a guy she saw three or four times a week for a limited amount of time. Quite frankly, the chances of it happening again would be greater if she was around a guy she found attractive 8-10 hours a day five days a week.

obviously, your call. But first you need to decide if it matters and no need to rush that.

Hi there Wallopped!

Good grief, I posted on your first page, looked away for a second and here we are 10 pages later.

You've been a busy man. So I'm just going to hit on some things that stuck out to me.

I cannot describe the searing pain I was in while she was talking.

You don't have to describe it. That's the beauty of this place and these people. We've lived it or are still living it right alongside you.

I agree this is worse than the death of a parent. When I lost my mother I tight I'd never recover. My WH's betrayal and walking out on us has made that seem like a cake walk.

I was a little concerned over your telling your wife you would be providing her with a number of books you want her to read. You CANNOT direct her actions to that extent. SHE needs to be taking on the responsibility of investing time and energy into reading, researching, etc, etc. If she's remorseful, truly, this shouldn't be an issue. If she's sitting by waiting for you to direct her every move - red flag.

Regarding 2x4's - I kind of chuckled when you asked us all to be easy on your wife....yeah...we don't really do that here. The hard line we take is all about YOU.

You've made wonderful progress in a short time. That shit is going to catch up with you soon. Don't be surprised when it does. Give yourself a break when the breakdown day occurs. Ok?

I also want to note that you need to stop apologizing for "over sharing" or "using profanity" - which, btw, totally doesn't count when you use asterisks to blank out the fucking letters. Part of the beauty of this site is that we have the ability to speak without censoring ourselves...even the really bad stuff. We probably know more about each other's sex lives and private details of the marriage than 99% of the people we know in real life. You have to have a safe place to dump that shit, man. This is the place. Dump freely and without apologies.

Religion - always a tough area for me....my WH is currently schlepping his mistress and one of her kids to church with him every Sunday morning. He didn't care for my religious beliefs as they didn't include that God is ok with porn, and that instead of blind faith I choose to question things in the Bible and learn about them, etc. anyway...tangent...reality is that I would not have survived this without my spirituality and connection to my Higher Power as defined by me. (I have abuse issues in the church, so tend to use less religiously oriented words...no offense intended....). Lean on your faith. Operate from a position of viewing yourself as worthy...of love...of faithfulness. Also, don't forget that if you simply can't stomach the thought of R, that God is on your side here. There's a reason that adultery is a valid excuse for divorce.

That said....keep your shit together when the kids are with you and behind closed doors is the time to fall apart. You seem to be doing a great job of that. You are going to have to be the stable one for the kids. My mom was a WW (I didn't know at the time), and in hindsight, my dad was and is the only stable parent I have. I lived with my dad when they divorced, he raised me. It happens Menz, so don't always assume your WW is going to get the kids by default.

Hoping and praying those STD tests come out clean...now and in the future.

Your brother is awesome. I think you should keep him.

Be strong. You are handling this. You are making it. You are surviving. YOU CAN DO THIS.

great post Nekorb.

There have been a few mentions of if you stay her getting a job. In my opinion the main issue here was your wifes "boundary" problem that allowed her to let him get to her, not the job or no job.

nononsense - Yes. And the key will finding the why in herself. Obviously I want the why and how regarding me and our family, but until she figures out why she was able to do this, what was going on inside, and then fixes it, in my mind there is no protection or safe harbor. She's beautiful, with an amazing figure. She's been hit on countless of times over the years. I don't think it's "Oh look! Hot guy at 2:00!" and then jump into bed - something deeper is going on. Obviously I go down a darker path and start wondering whether this was indeed the first time - I guess that's what happens when someone you love betrays you - you question everything. But I don't truly believe she did this before. Something within her allowed her to do this and until that's addressed and resolved, I agree that getting a job won't matter one iota.

nekorb - Thank you so much for your post.

I was a little concerned over your telling your wife you would be providing her with a number of books you want her to read.

You're right of course - this was just me panicking and trying to "fix" this, which I know won't work - she has to be a super active participant in this.

I also want to note that you need to stop apologizing for "over sharing" or "using profanity" - which, btw, totally doesn't count when you use asterisks to blank out the fucking letters.

Fuck you. Sorry, couldn't help it. If you can't tell, I'm a bit old fashioned and I don't think I've shared this much about how I'm feeling with anyone, other than maybe with my wife and it's all very new and uncomfortable. But when I write, I can't turn off the filter and it all comes pouring out, and that makes me uncomfortable. I have a very hard time hitting the "submit" button. It's definitely freeing. But it's still new.

She volunteers at numerous organizations. One of them is a children's services organization helping kids with severe illness. Some of what she did was visit the children's ward in in the Upper East and West Side of Manhattan. The A-hole volunteered as well.

Well, I hemmed and hawed, and then she said, “Don’t tell me. Who’s the lying sack of s**t f***ing now?” I almost dropped the phone. So…I told her. I told her … that my wife had an affair with POS. This was the third time he’s cheated that she knows about.

After you give your wife a printed copy of the “player’s letter” ask her if she believes that the POS was the type of person to be really interested in helping handicapped kids. Or was he using the kids to get some pu$$y.

Volunteering for children’s charity sounds like something “the player” would highly recommend.

From the “player’s letter”

I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).

2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.

3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

After you give your wife a printed copy of the “player’s letter” ask her if she believes that the POS was the type of person to be really interested in helping handicapped kids. Or was he using the kids to get some pu$$y.

With all due respect, I do believe that this line of questioning isn't applicable.

Whallop's wife was just as responsible for their relationship as her lover was. At any instant in time she could have said no, not called him back, not gone on the lunch dates, not held his hand in public, not looked up to him and suggested going back to fuck, not left the house, come clean bla bla bla bla bla.

His wife chose to have an affair. She would not have ended it unless she was caught. Period.

She is lying to her husband (And frankly playing him for a damn fool) saying she didn't "mean" 'I love you'.

Whallup's goal isn't to try to reframe her as a victim. He needs to call the stupid duck a stupid duck, deal with facts and then move on.

Also, by this point, I'm sure she's realized that she got played. All that means is that she knows she probably lost everything and is a naive fool to boot. A small consolation to anyone involved IMHO. What's done is done.

I've been following your thread and you said that they didn't use any protection, hence the STD tests.

I hate to say this, but what about birth control? I'm assuming that your WW is using something.

[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 1:10 PM, August 14th (Friday)]

Graywolf and eric1 - My feelings are all over the place on this. As far as rubbing my wife's in the fact that POS is a lying scum-sucking, bottom feeding asshole, who really couldn't care less about my wife and simply said/did whatever he needed to in order get his, I'm all for it. But the why of it scares me. Basically, I'm angry. And that's understating it drastically and I have all these feelings of wanting to hurt my wife emotionally as much as possible. I want to inflict pain. And the fact that I want to do that to the one person I treasured more than anyone outside my kids for over 25 years, and that this feeling is so intense, scares the bejeezus out of me. Yes - I'm still looking into IC. I know I need it.

Regarding POS, I really don't give a crap about him. I don't care about his reasons, what happens to him, why he does what he does. Sure - if I ever meet him I'd probably end up in jail (after getting out of the hospital), but I'm not spending any effort thinking about him or his reasons. He has zero values or moral compass and whether he believes he fell in love or if he's just a player, means nothing to me. My focus is on her. On her why. On getting answers. It's very confusing because I know her, and I mean know her, but it's incongrous because I obviously didn't know she had it in her to do this. What the hell happened to her? And while I might be a damn fool, I'm not quire where eric1 is, although I totally agree that I am not trying to reframe her as a victim of POS. She's a smart, capable woman. She did this. That's on her.

I also want to note that you need to stop apologizing for "over sharing" or "using profanity" - which, btw, totally doesn't count when you use asterisks to blank out the fucking letters.

Fuck you.

Well played. OK - so when you get to the point that you can say those words to your wife and mean them to the core of your being, you're ready to make a decision as to whether or not you want to try and reconcile.

You can't make that decision while you are still trying to piece together what the hell just happened to the person you thought you knew.

You have to be ready and willing to walk away if she isn't doing what you need and require.

Some folks to get that place really quickly, others it takes awhile. You'll know when you are there and when you've had enough.

Agree completely with getting yourself into IC. May I ask what your WW has done in terms of seeking counseling for herself?

As far as rubbing my wife's in the fact that POS is a lying scum-sucking, bottom feeding asshole, who really couldn't care less about my wife and simply said/did whatever he needed to in order get his, I'm all for it.

This was the intent of my post. To drive a stake into the OM's heart as far as your wife is concerned. I don’t see how my post could be construed as “trying to reframe her as a victim.” The OM being a POS doesn’t give her a pass.

Something within her allowed her to do this and until that's addressed and resolved.

Your wife has the ability to compartmentalize and live separate lives. She may have always had this ability or developed it as a child. She may have used it in positive ways in the past.

If this was her first affair then she had no reason to use it in this way until now. Nothing, no amount of therapy or shock treatment will take that ability away from her.

She thought she would never be caught. If she did think about it at all she assumed you would forgive her because the marriage was so good. Your only hope is making it clear that you will not forgive her next time.

It’s like you wife has the skill and is capable of robbing banks. Think of a safecracker. Nothing will take away that skill and audacity. What will prevent her from robbing banks in the future is that she’s very likely to get caught and spend 20 years in the federal pen.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 10:49 AM, August 14th (Friday)]

In the immediate aftermath of DDay, I struggled mightily to understand what the hell happened--thinking that "understanding" would help the pain. Guess what? It didn't. The pain was what the pain was--and it was going to last as long as it was going to last, independent of my understanding.

I'll never forget some 2x4s a wicked smart and observant senior priest at my parish gave me five months after D-Day, when my XWW had just moved out and I was STILL (I know now) in shock. (The shock started to abate after 8 mos.)

Anyway, he gave it to me straight: Among other things, he said (and he knows my XW, too), there was NOTHING I could have done to change what happened. Further, that he wouldn't be "surprised" if it wasn't her first affair! Knowing him better now, I believe he may well have known more concretely what he was saying, but couldn't say more.

It wasn't until two years later that those 2x4s (and others) truly settled into my soul. Now, at least more dispassionately than then, I can see that he was right. I wholeheartedly believe now that it wasn't her only affair. I was blindly trusting (and why shouldn't I be?) and delusional about the actual state of my marriage. It was what I wanted it to be in my mind, not what it actually was.

Here are my points... You cannot know what really happened at this point. You probably wouldn't really "get" it, anyway, because you are coping with your world being vaporized. And even if you did have FULL understanding, you'll still have the pain for as long as you'll have it.

Understanding is one thing. Acceptance is another. Peace is another. Forgiveness (for myself and her) is another and one I continue to pray for God's help in getting me there.

Gratitude is perhaps the last piece, and I'm getting powerful glimpses of that now. I can now look back at my life and be thankful for everything that has gotten me to this point, right here, writing this post. It's made me whom I am; I'm grateful for it all.

It's through our pain and suffering that we can grow; the more intense that pain, the bigger that opportunity. I knew I would never again experience such pain, so I embraced it as much as I could. With God's grace (the definition "grace"... "free and unmerited favor")--I resolved I was going get as much from it as I possibly could.

Now, I believe I am the lucky one. I grew so much (and still am growing) and my integrity, honor, character, and virtue are wonderful foundations for my new life. I wouldn't trade places with my XW for anything.

Blessings, LA

[This message edited by livinganew at 11:00 AM, August 14th (Friday)]