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I don’t see anything wrong with the questions. Usually the polygraph examiner will work with you to define the questions if in their experience they are too vague or too specific. Usually they have a conversation with you about the story you are being fed and what your goals are for the polygraph.

You didn't ever mention kids. And folks are telling you to run if you don't have any. Count me as one more.

I agree your wife is still your enemy in an informational war. Play it close to your chest. But here's the thing. What do you get at the end when you win and your enemy is defeated and becomes your partner again?

After reading your origin story, not only am I amazed you didn't become a super villain, I also think you should add an additional option to your plan.

Start putting out feelers for a job in another state or something. You have no reason to stick around for anything. Your family is anything but a family, your wife doesn't respect you, and you don't seem to really have anything keeping you there. I think you should really consider looking to leave it all behind and start over somewhere fresh where you can decide what you want your life to be without anyone else trying to have their hands in it. You'll heal a lot faster without the reminders of your trauma surrounding you all the time.

In 2012, my younger brother decided he couldn't continue living in this area anymore because there was nothing for him here. He answered a job ad on Craigslist for a startup in Manhattan. Crashed on friends' couches until he found a place. In the years since I've watched his worth grow. He's now a CTO and makes millions. I should also mention that he dropped out of college with barely enough credits to even come close to a degree. But he knew that in order to make a positive change in his life he had to do something drastic. You just have to be willing to take the risk.

[This message edited by Icedover84 at 12:30 AM, Monday, March 25th]

It’s been suggested already, but if I were you, I would get and read "co-dependent no more" like your life depended on it. Because I think your mental well being does.

With all the bullshit you’ve had to put up with in your life. It looks like you’ve resigned yourself to 24/7 pain as a normalcy. That’s no way to live and there’s just so much you can change on your own just by reading.

Schedule the polygraph for 3 weeks from the timeline deadline. That will give you time to process what she has said,and possibly redefine any question.

This is a very good point, you sit down with the examiner, with the timeline in hand, and that will help with refining.

Unless your wife truly believes that truth is whatever she wants it to be at the moment.

5bluedrops,

I was a person who commented that the questions were too general. For context, I am a detailed and exact person. Maybe too much so.

2. Have you fully disclosed all instances of physical sexual contact that occurred outside of the (name of country club/golf course)?
3. Is the disclosure document you provided to BH a fully complete and honest account of all instances of infidelity since the relationship began?

These would be too general for me personally. For questions 2., Why even ask if they have disclosed instances beyond the country club? Why not every instance- ever, anywhere? Also defining physical sexual contact would be important to me. For question 3., all instances of infidelity would be too general also. What exactly does that mean? Does your wife/girlfriend consider the definition of infidelity to be the same as yours?

I'm not doubting you. I'm wondering if your WW has the same mindset/definitions and intention as you. That's not clear to me. I was trying to say that if you specifically wanted to verify the extent of what physically happened, a polygraph could possible do that. But you and your WW have to agree on terms. Your WW seems to feel the victim and not a willing participant in these actions? Is that infidelity to her or sexual assault? Sorry. Her whole mindset seems a part of this.

Is your WW's mindset a possible aside, or possibly an important point? Her behaviour of "freezing" and crying when these things occur seems odd to me. The actions don't sound sexy or fun, more demeaning or power/control dynamic. I'm not excusing. I just don't understand. When is your WW in control of her body and willing to say or physically demonstrate that? One fWW here said most WWs had sexual abuse in their past. I do wonder here.

Back to you though. You are flooding. You don't know what to believe or where to turn. If your WW won't tell the basic truth, where does that leave you? It's ok to try to get to a basic physical truth of what occurred or to just get away to get perspective.

The number of questions in a polygraph exam is limited, and they must be yes/no questions. I think question 2 is too narrow, but question 3 is a good one.

But I'm not an examiner, just a former subject of polygraphs for employment (and I wasn't impressed). A good examiner will help you choose and formulate your questions.

On wednesday, I reobtained the marriage counselor’s blessing to go forward with a polygraph examination. Yesterday, which was supposed to be the original day of the polygraph before MC asked me to postpone, I was able to contact polygrapher’s office and secure a rescheduling of the polygraph examination, for next thursday at 10.

WW is nervous but has a cooperative demeanor about the polygraph. We have reached an uneasy truce, both agreeing that I dont believe the disclosure and that she asserts its truth and fullness. At this point both of us are just anxious to see it done, and are trying to not go to pieces/do damage to that truce

MC was concerned about several aspects of the whys for the examination. But after a thorough discussion, he provided his endorsement of doing one. He was helpful to WW in understanding, and she was receptive.

She seems to be working fairly hard on making me feel safe, and has had my back with family members who are pushing me to rug. Attitude and remorse are much improved.

Im reposting her disclosure letter, which she asserts is full and which I dont believe, so readers dont lose track of her version.

———————————————————-
"I’m sorry I cheated and lied to you for 10 years and caused you so much pain and now you don’t feel safe

I started working as a cart girl in the fall of 2013. I always wanted to be the prettiest, most desirable girl. I would get jealous when other girls got attention. When J gave attention to another girl, I wanted it.

I let him smack my butt. He asked me if I had a boyfriend. I said yeah but he thinks it’s hot if I get with other guys (another lie/misrepresentation). He would find excuses to touch me that I did not rebuff, such as rubbing my back and shoulders.

In the winter of 2013, Mr. P started buying me drinks. When the weather got warmer in the Spring of 2014, he fingered me multiple times in exchange for money. Sometimes he would pinch me and it hurt. I didn’t like that. I confided in J about him fingering me which I believe caused emotional attachments to form.

In the Spring of 2014, this progressed to several secret make out/fingering sessions in the cart barn, once in the liquor closet (making out), beer trailer (fingering), and men’s locker room (making out). One time in the cart barn, we were making out and he asked me to pull my shorts down so he could see my butt. I caught a glimpse of us in the mirror and was revolted when I saw how cheap I was. At the end of April 2014, I emailed (counseler) because of my guilty conscience but never followed through.

When the sports club opened in May of 2014, I asked (boss) if I could work down there with him. He said, no way, what about BH?

On a Tuesday in June 2014 (I believe it was probably the 17th), J and B invited me to go on a boat with them. I asked BH and he said no but I went anyways. We kissed at my car when I arrived. As soon as we got out on the boat, I got scared. I asked them to take me back and they did. I told them that if BH ever found out he would kill them. I knew he wouldn’t really but I was trying to make sure he didn’t find out.

In what I think was July of 2014, BH and I were at Mr. H’s house and he grabbed me from behind, put his hands on my breasts and abdomen, and kissed my neck. He was staring BH down and I was looking at him as well. This ended when BH took me away.

J once asked me about going to a hotel and I said no. I didn’t like anything that made me see it for what it was.

I believe on a Monday probably in the late summer of 2014 (maybe August), he asked me to come see him when he was closing, I went to him and we made out. When he proceeded to go down and kiss me over my shorts, I left. That was starting to feel too far for me.

On Monday, September 15th, I went to (night club name) with (trusted friend) and (fiance). I did not leave with them like I told BH that I would. I left with J, K, and B. K and B fingered me in the back of J’s car on the way back to their house. When we got there, I went up to use the bathroom. When I came out, the bedroom was dark and that scared me because the light had been on when I went in. I screamed and they kicked me out. K took me back to her house and proceeded to try to fool around with me until BH picked me up.

When BH took me to the club to get my ID the next day, (trusted friend) was very cold and short with me. Very shortly thereafter, I asked J why she was acting like that. He proceeded to tell me he’d told her about us making out before. That infuriated me because I already was afraid she suspected of fooling around after she had come down to the cart barn one day and my face was red because I had just made out with him.

When BH found our text messages, I deleted them and got Snapchat for private communication. J asked me to send him a picture of my breasts and I acquiesced. He sent me a pic of him in his briefs.

One night when BH and I were having sex, he said he thought I didn’t love him any more. This upset me deeply and very shortly thereafter I had a conversation with J about it in his car after a dinner shift. I told him we couldn’t do this any more for that reason. This coincided with when Meme passed away in December of 2014. It further solidified my desire to make sure I ended it because I didn’t want her to look down from Heaven and see me in that light.

I have never had oral or vaginal sex with anyone other than BH since I met him in 2011."
———————————————————

Some of you are responding to my earliest iterations of the polygraph questions I was going to use. The current iteration are designed to test her disclosure letter. Posting them in this page to clarify.

———————————————————-
1. Have you had sexual intercourse with anyone other than BH since the beginning of your relationship?

2. Have you disclosed the full extent of physical sexual contact that did occur?

3. Have you knowingly omitted anything from your disclosure letter?

4. Is any aspect of your disclosure letter knowingly untrue?
———————————————————-

I believe by end of next thursday I should be in a much more informed position. Just gotta take care of myself and keep my wits about me. Thank you all for participating, listening, and sharing your perspectives.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 12:37 PM, Friday, March 29th]

Have you worked with the polygraph operator to refine the questions? You should review them with him or her ahead of time.

Again you should ask your wife if she ever saw or touched any of their (including the other woman’s) genitalia. I can’t believe over all that time she was only touched and never touched back.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 8:13 AM, Saturday, March 30th]

Stevesn

I havent had the opportunity to get these questions reviewed. The polygrapher only wants to discuss the situation on the day of the appointment.

As you understand, I have so much ground to cover, and only 4 questions for the test. These questions have to cover a fairly wide net, while not being so broad that they let critical deception go by. Taking an objective approach to this, with the realization that theres no way to get everything my inner child wants and needs has been painful but necessary. I was, afterall, denied what I want and need by the mere existence of the situation, and that cant be undone.

Whether she touched or saw genitalia should be covered by the second question.

occams razor; An acknowledged 9 month long period of promiscuity with 2 APs and 3 one time partners with plentiful opportunities and followed up by 10 years of deception = probably every sex act under the sun, sometimes in groups.

As you understand, I have so much ground to cover, and only 4 questions for the test. These questions have to cover a fairly wide net, while not being so broad that they let critical deception go by.

Or do you?

JMO, focus on two events; first the night out when she was thrown out and the second, the night a H's house when he did the reach around. Those just seem like the two most likely events that you're gonna find deception, if you do find it then you can go back and do another, or, just cut your looses and move on.

The first event just makes no sense and as stated before more happened in that hour and forty minutes, until proven otherwise.

The second, JMO, they (both of them) was judging your reaction to see if you were interested in possibly a threesome or cuck situation. Very ugly and I HATE mentioning that but the cuck thing was the first thing I thought of on my initial read of your first post. Sorry.

There is a third; the boat ride sounds like BS also.

[This message edited by DeWittle at 1:00 PM, Saturday, March 30th]

Dewittle

Your post brings to mind an incident I havent discussed on here previously.

About a month or so after I discovered the texts being deleted, the sous chef at the club was badly burned by a commercial dishwasher malfunction. Consequently, a new sous chef was hired and the staff undertook a night out at the bar that most socializing occurred at.

I was angry about my suspicions, but WW wanted to go and be part of welcoming the new staff member, so I attended, bad mood and all.

We sat at a round table outside the bar, there was J, B and a girl he was dating, the new sous, and a few others, along with WW and myself.

I sat cross armed and closed off. J came up to me and started rubbing my shoulders, saying, "relax man". It was all I could do not to blow up. I hated him putting his hands on me. My knees shook, and my anger just built and built. But he stopped eventually, and I calmed down somewhat.

As we started to wrap up the night, B declared that J could not return to the house because of his date and his plans for intimacy, and needed to develop a plan to stay somewhere.

WW piped up, "J can stay with us". I replied, "No, he cannot". J jumped in with, "whoa, he said that awfully fast! Wonder what thats about?". Everyone at the table fell silent, awkward, and we all gave our goodbyes and went home. My only recollection about my conversation with WW about this incident at the time is that she was dismissive, gaslit me that I was reading too much into it.

I believe that whole conversation was a script And setup to get J in our house. A cooperative endeavor between B, J, and WW. To what end? Its stupid. Insane.

I have had conversations with WW about it. Shes sorry. Embarrassed. Denies that it was contrived, asserts that it happened organically, but admits that she offered J to come back to the house because I was getting sophisticated about what was going on, and if it was going to transcend secrecy, then maybe if she got us in the same place and did us both she could accomplish that.

On this revelation, after all my remarks about the insanity, I said, "thought you didnt have sex with him? Thought you didnt want to "be one with him" like that?".

She said, "I never did. But if it was going to happen, it wouldve happened then".

So? You are on to something. But like I said, theres too many lies to get to all of it in 4 questions.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 1:35 PM, Saturday, March 30th]

So she wanted to have a threesome with you and John? It does sound like she was having sex with all these guys. I really think at this point she just needs to come clean with it all. You obviously love her and want to be with her, and can get past all those really crappy things she's done in the past. I don't understand why she is making you pull it out of her except for maybe fear and embarrassment.

I’m about to say something not especially helpful, so disregard if need be. Her whole story and the lost little lamb act really pisses me off. She continues to sound unremorsful to me.

My gut is telling me these guys were living out some cuck fantasy and she went along with it willingly. Now she wants a wife of the year trophy but seems like she’s actually still cucking you.

I’m sorry to be so blunt, but the way these two losers treated you with the support of your WW is upsetting. Don’t let up until she knows just how damaging this is to a man.

If you choose to divorce, I don’t think anyone would blame you. If you choose to stay with her, hard, impermeable boundaries would be a must.

Stay strong, brother!

[This message edited by 1994 at 2:53 PM, Saturday, March 30th]

FHM

My impression from my personal experience and now the context Ive been given years later to re-examine said experience in retrospect is

Not so much that she desired a threesome between J, her, and myself, but that when the house of cards was in danger, she considered having such a threesome as a way or perhaps a means to, I dont know, get out in front of it? Create a sexual incident I would be party to to later use to justify what was already happening?

Pretend it wasnt happening before, but now that there was a threesome, It was happening? Maybe even blame me for allowing it if it happened for the relationship between them?

Perhaps she wouldve, in her mind, been able to afterwards act like these things were going on because of the threesome?
Been able to use it to argue I was condoning?

Im speculating and maybe way off base. But my impression is that it was a gambit to regain control as I began to suspect them.

At the risk of getting too personal did she have reason to believe you’d be open to a threesome? That’s a hell of a gambit. You don’t just float the idea of a MMF three way casually.

Yes, she had reason to believe I would be open to something like that.

Early in the relationship and all the way up to 2014, I took the position that I understood this was her first serious relationship and that it would be understandable if the wildness of being an attractive and desired female with a high sex drive wasnt out of her system. I told her that she could play around as long as she was an open book about what was going on, and that I would only be ok with it if she only engage with other men in transparency and that I would be willing to and desire to be included in trysts so that I wasnt in THIS situation. Basically, if she wanted other guys, it was on the table as long as it was including me and making it an us thing rather than a them thing.

She claimed, the entire relationship, to be uninterested in anything resembling that. She cried real tears, proclaiming her monogamous investment in me, that she would never do or be open to such things. I believed that was the truth, and it made me happy. But it was a lie.

Not being jealous, and already having had a phd in getting cheated on before I met her, her being jealous, me being completely faithful and her secretly cheating when I provided boundaries and openness for her to explore sexuality together with me, makes this so much more painful. I wish I had never offered.

She tells me now, that at the time she resented me for saying that it was only ok if it would have happened with my blessing. That she felt like I was trapping her by trying to control it. But that she now understands. Whatever that means.

She still expresses that such an arrangement would not interest her, that she only wants me. And she never in 2014 explicitly suggested it, just coyly tried to open the door that one evening at the bar. Of course, it was too late by then, I had caught her deleting texts from him and clearly she decided from the outset to hide what she was doing with him and everyone else. And his and her general attitude towards me, us, was repugnant to "sharing".

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 2:50 PM, Sunday, March 31st]

Polygraph happening right now. My nerves.

Sounds like you didn’t get the parking lot confession. How’d it go?

No parking lot confession. WW was in pretty good mood, singing to music on the way there. Seemed confident, glad to be getting it done. No idea how this is going to go down. Still waiting for someone to come get me.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 3:38 PM, Thursday, April 4th]