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Last night my wife and I were having a "good" discussion that involved both the infidelity, but also other issues from our past. The talk was productive until it wasn't and everything turned on a dime.

One of the things I have been unpacking in IC is how I have always felt inadequate as a husband and father. Lots of that comes from my own FOO trauma, but in this discussion we were talking about our memories with our kids when they were younger and also what their memories of me are. For context I had a job that required long hours and travel so my time with family (especially during the week) was pretty limited. We traveled as a family pretty frequently once the kids were older and lots of my memories are from those trips. I always made sure to attend school and sporting events, but not much memory of a typical day as I would not have been there during waking hours much.

I was openly wondering if I sacrificed too much family time in service of my profession. We had lots of nice things, but definitely came at a cost.

I made the comment that my wife would often tell people she had no idea what my job actually was. She knew I was a c-level executive for technology companies, but if someone asked what I did her response was always that she had no idea. We never really talked about my work. That was due to a mix of me avoiding bringing stress from work home and frankly a lack of interest from my wife. Do not blame her as it is technical work and not necessarily interesting to people who are not involved.

My wife became pretty emotional at this point and I kept saying this was never an issue for me. I could not understand why she was upset and that seemed to compound the issues. In a pretty angry tone and through tears she said "can't you get that in my fucked up mind I keep trying to figure out how I could have been a better wife so the affair did not happen".

I felt gutted for two reasons. The first is that I should have made the connection. The AP was a former colleague and I think we trauma bonded during our time together on wall Street. We would talk about work with each other and my wife obviously feels like I turned to someone else because she and I did not talk about work. The second is that I realized that any issues I ever raise will be seen through the lens of infidelity. I remember feeling down at times when my wife would tell people she has no idea what I do as it would trigger the narrative I had in my head that she viewed me as a great provider, but not interesting enough to really care about my stress or how I spent so many hours of my life. Trying to talk about this was a huge trigger for my wife and the rest of the talk was very rough.

I tried not to shut down and told her I totally get where she is coming from and her trigger is due to the trauma I have inflicted. That said, I keep wondering if she will view any issues I raise as blaming them for contributing to the infidelity. When calm she will say she knows my choices were due to my own brokenness and had nothing to do with her, but when the emotions are high that logic is out the window. I do not know how to balance being vulnerable and authentic when something is weighing on me without triggering her feeling that if she had done better I would have not cheated.

Today has had lots of silence and I do not know how to explain my thoughts in a way that will not trigger an angry response. She has every right to be angry and full of grief so this is on me to figure out how to do better going forward. As an avoidant person I have to be super intentional when trying to engage in these conversations and even then I obviously fail often.

Not sure if others have found a balance between trying to express needs and thoughts and not triggering the BS with feelings of inadequacy.

The talk was productive until it wasn't and everything turned on a dime.

I'd imagine this isn't the first time something like this has happened and I can assure you that it won't be the last. And that's perfectly okay. There's not much either of you can do about it but plow through. That may take a while in some cases. That's okay, too. This shit is fucking hard, man, as I know you're discovering.

I had very similar experiences. Sometimes a comment from my exww would trigger all sorts of craziness. It's difficult to explain. I tend to think I'm a normally rational person. At the time, being rational was damned near impossible. Too many powerful emotions easily triggered by just about anything.

The first is that I should have made the connection.

There's no way you could have made that connection. Don't blame yourself for that; it's not your fault. You were being open and honest, vulnerable and authentic, and that is never a bad thing. Now that this connection has been made, however, you still have opportunity to work through it with her, and that's a good thing, sir.

The AP was a former colleague and I think we trauma bonded during our time together on wall Street. We would talk about work with each other and my wife obviously feels like I turned to someone else because she and I did not talk about work.

Have you shared this with your wife?

The second is that I realized that any issues I ever raise will be seen through the lens of infidelity.

For a while this will be true. She will see you, everything you do and say, through the lens of infidelity. However, it doesn't last forever. Eventually, as she recovers and begins to heal, this will subside. IIRC, for me, that took at least 18 months after d-day.

Don't let this dissuade you. You'll be tempted to walk on egg shells. Try to resist that temptation. Most BS can be hypersensitive and hypervigalent, so any hint of trepidation on your part will not be well received.

Craziness, isn't it? And yet, its par for the course.

I do not know how to balance being vulnerable and authentic when something is weighing on me without triggering her feeling that if she had done better I would have not cheated.

If you figure that one out by all means share it! In the meantime, don't bother. I cannot for the life of me see any way around it. You're going to trigger her. It's inevitable. And while this may seem counter-intuitive, it's the best way forward, blowing up those land mines step by step.

It's like that children's book about a journey through the woods and swamps and whatnot. You can't go around the woods, over or under them. You have to go through them.

My exww and I had similar conversations about the conditions that lead to her betrayal. It took me a long time to understand that my tendencies to avoid conflict did, in fact, exacerbate her CoD tendencies without accepting any blame for her choice to cheat. Your wife probably isn't there yet and may not be in the foreseeable future.

Today has had lots of silence and I do not know how to explain my thoughts in a way that will not trigger an angry response.

Give her space and time. She needs to process her thoughts and emotions. You can let her know that you're available when she's ready. That's not being avoidant; it's grace.

Above all, be patient. I know you want to get through all of this as quickly as possible. We all do, wayward and betrayed alike. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

It's a marathon, not a sprint.

I know exactly how your W feels FVL.

My H and I have had the very same conversation you’re describing and I snapped back too, I can tell you why I snapped at my H I don’t know if you’re wife felt the same but my guess is she did, I snapped at him because I felt I’d failed, I’d missed something, if I’d just paid more attention, if I’d just taken more interest. She’s blaming herself and she feels you are having a little dig at blaming her too.

Now I can’t speak for your W but I know that whilst my H was gone working long hours and I was home alone from 12pm-10:30pm 5 days a week, raising 2 boys, cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, paying bills, dealing with health appts, school drop off and pick up, pack ups, activities and 100% responsibility for the day to day mental and physical load of running of a household not once did I decide to trauma bond with another man because I had nobody to talk to about the stresses of daily life, not once did I choose to confide in another man because my husband was too busy with work to take an interest in us.

I understand you will want to avoid triggers, please don’t, you’re just prolonging the process, everything needs to be worked through as painful as it is.

I remember roughly at the same spot you are at now I started to get snappy and angry, in therapy my H was telling a tale about me, explaining that I was angry and saying really upsetting things, our therapist turned to him and said that she was so happy that id finally started to stick up for myself, you’re at the point where your wife is going to start sticking up for herself and some days she’ll stick up for herself better than others.

What you call triggers are emotional unexressed nodes she could not voice before.
It's paiful for both, but likely if they get out is better than being kept inside.

Happens to see all through those lenses, is not needed there is or isnt a factual connection, it's part of griefing, the disbelief for what was done to her will show up in such ways.

You need to be strong, is not about you in this case, is just her pain

All this is very normal, especially for someone with a recent DDay.

BS here. LTA survivor myself - DDays years past. And I still have PTSD. WH and I are in R (I think I'll always say in R as opposed to Reconciled) and things are going very well in the Land of Chaos.

"can't you get that in my fucked up mind I keep trying to figure out how I could have been a better wife so the affair did not happen".

This is real and raw and frankly I am impressed she could put such a feeling into words in the relatively short time since DDay. I'm sure this did gut you. GENTLY I say, as gutted as you feel from hearing it - imagine how gutted she has felt every minute of every day since finding out. That's not to beat you w/a 2x4 - that is trying to give you insight to her perspective. This feeling will always be with her. Not always front burner. Not always on a constant loop. But even after years and much healing work, it will try to sneak it way out. Long buried or not - it will always be under the surface. Something from out of nowhere will trigger it. Now that you are aware of this - this can be helpful information and useful insight for you moving forward.

While this turning point was horrifying, exhausting and gutting for you both - it was an excellent insight. And on some level while she is emotionally battered now, she will at some point feel slightly unburdened for having it gotten off her chest. Yes - it landed on yours and far harder than you would have liked. This is good - NOT in a 2x4 way. But in a way that allows you a small glimpse into what is now her world.

How you build on that is up to you. I wish you all the best luck and positive healing.

There is a learning curve to all this.

She can’t help but feel the way she does and you can’t help that sometimes you will stumble upon a trigger that you actually do not have any way of anticipating.

Once you find it, you will know it’s there and you will begin to be sensitive to it. Your job is to listen when it happens, learn from it, help keep the topic out in the open.

It’s part of the process. It’s also part of the emotional intimacy you had hoped could form from this.

I can reassure you it’s possible for closeness to return and be even more connected than before. What I can’t tell you is whether it will happen in your relationship. I would say there is a stronger than normal possibility of it because you are doing the work, and she is committed and also doing the work. As chaos said it is unusual she can express this so early.

It’s hard to live in uncertainty. But when you feel that way allow your certainty of your commitment and of your love for her to carry you. The fear of abandonment is deep, and often it’s what can cause us not to be vulnerable. You keep resetting and showing up with that vulnerability. And that’s evident because she is feeling like you are stoned enough to lay this on you. It’s a process and there is no such thing as doing it perfectly or even well, but as you continue to chip away at it together there will begin to be these flickers that it’s moving in the right direction. I would recommend instead of scanning for the evidence it won’t work, focus on the things that are working and building that.

She is sharing her fears and triggers. You are doing the same. This is evidence of emotional intimacy, it’s just some of the emotions right now are not the fun and rainbow kinds. That’s closeness. That’s more than you had before in all reality because you have always felt she was buttoned down and not experiential in her emotions. This is a getting to know you period but the good bad and ugly edition.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:55 PM, Monday, March 9th]