SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is my first time posting on here. Im not quite sure how to go about it, so I'm just gonna lay it all out there. My wife and I are still together working on reconciliation and things seem to be going in the right direction. We started marriage counseling this last week and I also started individual counseling. Any support, opinions, or advice are greatly appreciated.

Her affair progressed through the month of August. In the beginning of the month it started as chatting over Instagram, then by the end of the month there was nudes, sexting, and meeting up. She insists they did not have sex but I'm not sold on that. They met up numerous times in our vehicles, his vehicle, went to lunch on a couple occasions, and in the work stairwell. All during work hours. She says they only made out but I'm by no means convinced but I don't have evidence otherwise. Not coworkers, but in a field where they could cross paths on occasion.

How I found out:
I never used to look at her phone or worry about anything. Then one day late August we were laying on the couch and a text from a family member of hers popped up and it was about me so I read it. Conversation was my wife telling the family member she was super unhappy with me and had been for awhile and that the only reason she hadn't divorced is she didn't want to share custody of our kid. There were also complaints about things I said or did that were plain not true. This was a gut punch and I had no idea she was unhappy. That night I brought it up, we had a big talk, no arguments, just productive talk, narrowed down what the issues are, and made a plan to fix the core issues we figured out. This was a big deal because in the past we would just shut down and nothing would get resolved. After that I would check her phone occasionally. I found a conversation with one of her co-workers talking about a "secret" and memes and stuff she would send that were comparing/talking bad about me. I noticed the next morning she deleted the messages she didn't know I read. I brought it up and we had another big talk about deleting stuff and being honest with me and bringing up issues so we can work through them. Hindsight is she gaslit the shit out of me as to why she deleted it and tried to get me to feel bad for looking at her phone. It was another "productive" talk and we agreed on a plan. Then a week later September 10, she had a conference and went out with coworkers after. When she got home I went out to greet her and it was dark so she didn't see me till I got to the car. I could see she was in the process of deleting text messages but didn't finish because she saw me there and shut her phone off real quick. She got out and tried to act real sweet on me. I asked if she took any pictures and I took the phone out of her pocket and she panicked. The messages she was deleting didn't make sense as to why at the time, it was just a coworker asking where she was because they were about to walk over to the conference that morning and couldn't find her anywhere for like an hour. She gaslit the shit out of me again but her excuse as to why she was deleting those and why they couldn't find her made absolutely no sense to me. Hindsight, and later admission, it's because she was with AP for that hour out in my car. We had a big talk again about deleting stuff and productive plan made that night, but then I kept the phone and told her I was going through it. I ended up finding tons of nudes in the photo trash bin that didn't go to me and then screen shots of conversations that she must have sent to a friend that were between her and him on Instagram also in the trash. I woke her up and confronted her about what I found. She would not admit until the literal evidence was in her face. And even then it was definitely trickle truth. She told me she knew it was wrong and wanted to stop and planned on ending it, but then after that talk we had earlier that night, she was definitely going to end it. We had another big talk, much more heated on my end toward her that night but ultimately I decided we would try to work through this. Part of the plan moving forward was she agreed to have tracking software installed on her phone and she would give me all of her passwords. Long story short on this, the following week, she had a feeling that the phone might be recording but didn't do a good enough job muffling the microphone by stashing it in a jacket on the other side of the office.. it still picked up her conversations with AP on her office work phone. She's even recorded telling him she's "so paranoid she has her phone wrapped up in her jacket across the room". I gave her opportunities to come clean and she denied denied denied. When I confirmed this is what was going on, I left work early and called her while at work to confront her. She denied it was happening so I just started talking like I knew because I did know. Into the conversation I asked if she felt addicted to this and she said yes. I told her that either this ended now or me and our son would not be in her life any longer. She said she didn't want to lose the family we and built over the last 8 years. She left with early to come home and we took off the next day as well. On a recording from after that conversation, she obviously figured out the phone was recording. AP called before she left and she took the cell phone to her coworkers office and then went back to talk to him on her office phone. She says it was ended on that conversation. I believe her because she was sobbing when she went back and got her phone. Like it was a breakup.

Call me a fool, I keep thinking I am one for this move some days, I decided to remove the tracking software. My thought is that I believe contact has now ended, although I can no longer verify, and I just feel like that amount of tracking would just create resentment and a wedge between us when the goal now is to come back together. I took the leap of faith to take it off there and I've got times now where I'm in my head wishing I didn't. This was 100% me.

Through our talks, she says she has been checked out for awhile but doesn't want to be but also doesn't know how to pivot back. She feels like I'm a stranger and she is a stranger to herself. She says she also has resentment towards me that had built over the last 2 years. My thought is we are at least having open communication that we didn't used to have.

Things seem to be improving although it is still early. I've probably done everything wrong to this point, but it's a situation I've never been in before.

We attended our first marriage counseling session with someone that specializes in infidelity this last week. The session went well and we both like the counselor/plan. Leading up to the session, my wife was extra quiet and seemed distant. After the session it was even more so. I brought it up to her to see what was going on and was met with push back and defensiveness, it was like pulling teeth for her to open up. For example she finally said she was anxious because she has never done counseling before, so I asked why it made her anxious and her response was a snappy "I'm allowed to be anxious". I gave it a minute for her to relax a little and told her I'm just trying to figure out what's going on with her and what she's feeling. She ended up telling me she felt "dogged" in front of a stranger, referring to my explanation to the counselor's question of how I found out about the affair and description of what occurred for me to find out. She said she feels differently about a couple things, but when I asked if she disagrees with anything I said, she said no. She started crying and said she didn't want to talk about it right then. I shelved it because we had to get back to work shortly after. Later in the day I approached her regarding the conversation. She said she is sad/depressed and embarrassed. The rest of the evening went fine and the next morning she was feeling better.

I'm sorry for this long post. I just needed to get this out there. I'm in this limbo world where I can't decide what to do. I've been focusing on myself alot more, including working out and other stuff. My anxiety and sadness is way down. My longest stretch of good days so far has been 11 days. Early on I was lucky to get 30 minutes of feeling ok a day. I'm wanting us to work, and want to have patience to see how things go, but some days I wonder if I'm wasting my time. I wish I had an answer one way or the other so I could get on with my life.

Like the title, I sometimes feel that I'm optimistically standing in front of a field of red flags.

Read "Women’s Infidelty: Living in Limbo" by Michele Langley. She has a website you can download it from. Two volumes, easy read.

Cliff notes: Your wife has left the marriage and probably isn’t coming back.

Best wishes.

[This message edited by Formerpeopleperson at 4:09 AM, Sunday, November 16th]

Hey there trashpanda, I'm so sorry you're here. I am too new in the club to give you the great advice others will have for you. There are many great and caring people on here and they'll be along soon.

In the meantime check out the various resources in the healing library.

The best piece of advice I did receive is to focus on your healing and don't commit to R right now. Focus on yourself and if WS comes to the party with good behaviour then maybe R becomes an option. You don't need to decide anything right now if you don't want to.

Also, check in with a lawyer and get an sti test. I am ready to walk tomorrow if I have to.

If your aren't sure that contact has ended then I would say tracking is necessary and non-negotiable.

Also, maybe see if AP has a BS and contract them as well. They deserve to know.

Edit: spelling correction

[This message edited by nrtd at 5:56 AM, Sunday, November 16th]

Thank you, I'll check out the reading. I've been reading alot of self help stuff over the last 2 months.

Got std tested a couple weeks ago. Negative so far on everything that has come back.

I think I still plan on talking to a lawyer and getting my ducks in a row.

The AP is also married with kids. I want to tell his BP but haven't yet.

My typical advice: Ask her to write out a complete timeline history of everything related to the affair. Tell her to leave out nothing. When she is done ask her if this is everything and when she says yes then ask if she is willing to take a polygraph. If her immediate answer is yes then she is probably being honest but if she says no or she stalls or she balks then you can safely assume she is lying

I do not think you know the complete truth.

Get the std testing and let her know you are doing so. Make an appointment with a consultation with a divorce attorney and let her know this as well. How she reacts will tell you where you stand in the relationship

The AP is also married with kids. I want to tell his BP but haven't yet

I think most will tell you to contact OM’s wife immediately. No. 1 - she deserves to know. No. 2 - it can help shut down the relationship and provide the necessary clean break needed for her to assess whether she is going to commit to reconciliation or not. It can help dispel the "fog" in other words.
But the ultimate reason? If the OM’s wife had discovered this - wouldn’t you have wanted her to let you know?

In my personal experience, I wish I had done it right away

Very sorry you are having to deal with this. You will find friends here who have some valuable insights.

Welcome to SI and so sorry you're dealing with the trauma of infidelity. There are some posts pinned to the top of the forum that we encourage new members to read. There are some other great posts that aren't pinned and you can find them by looking for the bull's eye icons.

Your WW (wayward wife) should read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald. Another good book is Not Just Friends by Dr Shirley Glass.

If they met up, they've most likely had sex, so I'm afraid you may not have the full truth. It's possible they didn't, but it's more probable they did. You may wish to be tested for STDs because there are some nasty diseases out there.

I'm glad you're in IC (individual counseling). I normally don't recommend MC at first because many MC's don't have infidelity experience and can shift blame to the BS (betrayed spouse). Your M didn't cheat - she did. There are some good MC's out there so I hope you have a good one.

Right now, focus on you and your healing. Some of the bull's eye icon posts are to recover before you reconcile. Watch your WW's actions because you know you can't trust her words. Consistent actions over time rebuild trust.

Be sure to stay hydrated and eat. Physical activity can help with the anger. Expect the emotional rollercoaster to take you for a ride at any time.

You may wish to ask for a written timeline with dress, times, thoughts and feelings. Your choice if you want a polygraph.

I suggest she look for another job where she won't have contact with SO (affair partner).

Also, please let the OBS (other betrayed spouse) know. It isn't revenge. It's giving the OBS agency over their life and the ability to make their life choices on the truth.

I just realized the fantastic Leafields has become the head triage-doctor in the ER that JFO tends to be! The calm and consistent advice on taking care of yourself is something many of us tend to forget to offer – and you should really read her post and take note of it.

Friend – I think marriages can survive anything that both parties want it to survive. It definitely won’t survive if only one is on board. I also think that the "anything" needs to be very clear and understood by both parties. In other words: you can survive if you have the truth. Like... if you KNEW that they had sex because she told you the truth about that, you could survive that. You two could work from that FACT. However – going on with you questioning if they had sex will prevent reconciliation. What will also wreck reconciliation is having been told NOW that they "only" had oral sex, or only at the office or whatever... and then discover six months from now that there was more. You can recover from what you know – the truth.

There are few if any absolutes in infidelity and human behavior in general. However, there are odds... Like we have seen several thousand instances of infidelity on this site, and we know that those that take action A or do step B or whatever are more likely to move on out of infidelity than those that don’t. I’m going to make a few statements/claims and they might or might not apply to you, and give you some odds on what might or might not have happened:

Use common sense: Two grown up people comfortable enough to share sexually explicit/nude pictures. Confessed to meeting alone in cars and other spaces. Seemingly known fact in the office that they are doing something "secret"...
Come on... This isn’t High School... They didn’t share friendship rings or pinky-swear.
The odds are something like 9/10 they had sex. Heck... that one I left out is simply there to not sound fanatic... They had sex.

Clear from the communications you had that someone at work knew what was going on. Don’t for a minute believe it’s not all over the office grapevine. It’s another 9/10 that the affair is common knowledge.

Our collective experience indicates that an affair that is discovered is more likely to stop for some time (weeks) before starting again in some form or way. With them in this close proximity I’m putting this at 7/10.

Fortunately, we know of several steps that can increase the odds of this being over:
For one, let his wife know. All you need to tell her is what you already know:
They have been sharing sexually explicit content of each other.
They have spent time together alone in their vehicles and in the stairwells.
That you are concerned that they are having an affair.

That’s it. Don’t make any claim that’s not true or you can’t corroborate.
Find her number, phone her and tell her. Introduce yourself and be direct. You are sorry to have to tell her this, but believe she deserves to know.

Our experience shows that in 9/10 instances where you do this the OM focuses 100% on saving his marriage. He will take active steps in distancing himself from your wife.

Another factor our experience shows is that to reconcile you need 100% NC (no contact). This means that in an ideal world she leaves this job. Otherwise, she needs to find a way where you feel assured they are not interacting. I actually think this hinderance is more geared for the betrayed spouse – YOU won’t feel safe if she’s in his vicinity 8 hours a day. But you do need to feel safe – and leaving this job is a probable requirement to reconcile.
We do have couples here that reconciled despite the ongoing work-contact, but they will all admit it has made a difficult task even more difficult.
I would give a rekindling of the affair a 9/10 if they continue working together. Maybe not now, maybe not next months, but come the Christmas party 2026 or 27...

One issue regarding her job: What is their job relationship? Is he in any way a manager or higher than she on the company hierarchy? If so then I would definitely let HR know and make your objections clear. Might cost him his job, might cost her the job (highly unlikely) but at the very least it sends them a message and it will lower the odds of them starting up again.

In other words: If his wife knows and is on his tail, if he’s working at saving his marriage, if he’s focused on saving his career, if he/your wife no longer are in contact... That would all make the marathon of reconciliation possible.

One more thing: Digital images floating around... He can be a decent man and these images stored in a directory on his mobile, only for him. Until he looses the phone, or he shares with ONE friend. All of a sudden your wife is on hotmomsdotcom or some comparable website. Yes – it is her problem, but what happens when your son comes home crying because Jake the schoolyard bully found pics of his mom out there... Your wife needs to send a letter (a formal one) to OM, reminding him that all digital imagery was for personal use and that any breach of that will lead to legal action, plus maybe a mention that she had deleted all such contact on her end.

Marriage counseling is generally not a good idea this early into it, but there are a few good ones out there who do deal with infidelity. If your MC tries to shift any of the blame to you, then you need to fire him/her. The marriage didn't cheat on you, your wife did. I guarantee you can find other marriages with the same problems yours has, and no one cheated in the relationship. This is on her, not you.

I don't think your wife has told you everything, and I think it's very likely she did have sex with her AP. I know that's hard to accept, and it's possible she didn't, but the signs are not good at all. An emotional affair combined with opportunity almost always = sex. She needs to be a complete open book right now. Full transparency. Full access to her devices. No deleting conversations. Complete honesty. The WHOLE story. Voluntarily. You shouldn't have to pull teeth for her to cooperate if she really wants to fix things.

That's the bare minimum. If she isn't willing to do that, then she's not on board, and you do not want to be in a relationship with someone who isn't fully on board and still keeping secrets. Making you feel bad for invading her privacy is just a defense mechanism. If she was honest with you, you wouldn't need to go to such lengths just to get the truth.

Your wife has a lot of work to do before she can be trusted again. Defensiveness and avoiding the issue aren't good signs at all. I know this is hard to read and come to terms with, but if you want to get out of infidelity you're going to have to set some boundaries, draw a line in the sand, and really mean it. She should read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda Macdonald. Its a fairly short read. The audio version is just over 2 hours long, and it covers a lot about how you're likely feeling and what you're going through. She needs to hold herself accountable. You can't make her change. She has to want to. The only person you have any control over is you.

Hey panda, sorry you had to find us, glad you did given the circumstances.

It’s hard to convey fully, but I can say with full confidence that your concern about an array of red flags is correct. You are now dealing with someone that you absolutely cannot trust, someone who actively wants to deceive you and even harm you, and you need to learn to listen to your own intuition and reason. She absolutely cannot be allowed to shape your understanding of reality at this time. If you have evidence, it’s true. If you have a gut feeling, treat it as true for now and watch for further evidence.

The relapses, the defensiveness, hiding, destroying evidence, trickle truth, all of it paints the picture seen here so many times of just the beginning of the story. You talk about extending her trust, but friend, she hasn’t even begun the journey. It is a long and painful road, with no short cuts. Please don’t make the mistake of trying to rush back to "normal". We see far too many people come back here with "10 years later and still miserable" stories. Don’t be one of those.

Bigger wrote:

Another factor our experience shows is that to reconcile you need 100% NC (no contact). This means that in an ideal world she leaves this job. Otherwise, she needs to find a way where you feel assured they are not interacting. I actually think this hinderance is more geared for the betrayed spouse – YOU won’t feel safe if she’s in his vicinity 8 hours a day. But you do need to feel safe – and leaving this job is a probable requirement to reconcile.
We do have couples here that reconciled despite the ongoing work-contact, but they will all admit it has made a difficult task even more difficult.

My wife had an affair with a co worker. They worked opposite shifts. She leaves at noon, and he came in at noon. There was still no way I could tolerate her being around him, even briefly during shift changes. Add to that my imagining him coming in an hour or so early to hang out and flirt with her before clocking in, whether it happened or not, was driving me crazy. Fortunately she works for a big company with several locations around the valley and voluntarily put in for a transfer to a new location several miles away, but the sheer fact that they still worked for the same company and there was even a slight chance they could bump into each other was just torture to me.

Lo and behold, a few months later he did show up at her location and try to talk to her. She shut it down and told him to leave her alone, intentionally loudly enough so there were witnesses if she were to report him to HR. Again, fortunately, he's a complete moron and ended up getting fired for something pretty stupid, and the relief we both felt was palpable. Yes, recovery or reconciliation can happen if they continue to work together, but like Bigger said, it makes things much, MUCH more complicated and difficult. If my wife was working the same shifts in the same building with her AP (affair partner), I dont think I could have tolerated it and she'd be looking for a new job.

I'm 7 months out from d day (discovery day) and my wife is a rare example of a WS (wayward spouse) who showed true remorse and came completely clean early on. By that I mean within a month. At first she did minimize and trickle truthed me until I started filing for divorce. That snapped her out of it right quick and in a hurry. That's not usually the case, tho. We often see them drag their feet and continue to gaslight for months or even years.

Do not do what I did at first. Don't do the "pick me" dance to try to win her back. That almost never works. You can't manipulate her into wanting to salvage the marriage. She has to want to do that on her own. She'll almost certainly see it as a sign of weakness, and may even lose respect for you. Stand firm, hold your ground, and if you put divorce on the table, be prepared to follow through with it. You do it to get out of infidelity, not manipulate her into doing what you want. Backpedaling on that would likely be a disaster and blow up in your face.

Keep in mind also, that filing for divorce doesn't necessarily mean you have to go through with it. You're allowed to change your mind if she starts coming around and shows you that she's truly remorseful and willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild your marriage. Which is what you'll have to do if you go that route. Your old marriage is dead. She murdered it, and from the sounds of it, you don't want that marriage back again anyway. In either case, it will be impossible if she still has a spot in her heart for her AP. She has to be over him first for it to work.

So sorry you've found a need for this place, but glad you found it. Most of us know what you're going through, and there's a wealth of collective experience and knowledge here. Make no mistake, you've been traumatized, and it's going to take a very long time to recover from this. You may even be experiencing PTSD type symptoms. I did, and sometimes still do, 7 months later. The general time frame for recovery from infidelity is 2 to 5 years, and that's if all goes well. True reconciliation can be a lifetime work in progress, but it is possible.

If the other betrayed spouse doesn’t know then the affair is still going on.

It's hard for me to read a wall of text, so I may have misread your post, but it looks like you're focused on your W. That's not abnormal, but it doesn't help.

Your best bet is to focus on yourself, especially your thoughts and feelings about your M and, especially, about yourself.

You have no control over your W. You do have control over yourself and your healing. My reco is to focus on your healing. That will give you energy to deal with your W, who doesn't seem committed to healing herself or your M.

You heal you. Your W can help or hinder you, but you can heal either way. You are the only one who can do the healing work you need to do.

Your W heals herself. You can help or hinder, but she's responsible for her own healing. No one else can do the work she needs to do.

Together you heal/build/rebuild/whatever-word-you-want-to-use your M, if you both want that.

My reco: again, focus on yourself and your healing.

I’m sorry that you are having to join this group. However you will get great advice and support here, throughout the healing process and thereafter.

Hang in there. It does get better. The healing process is slow but I think seeing your own counselor is a good choice for you.

From experience— nothing in your marriage will change unless you change. By that I mean if your wife (as an example) has gotten used to certain behaviors to get what she wants, she will expect that to continue.

Now if you are no longer willing to put up with that behavior, you are going to face the problem and refuse to budge. She’s going to fight you tooth and nail to get what she wants and expects. If you give in, NOTHING changes. However if you stand firm, she will start to realize the "old marriage" isn’t going to survive the affair in some ways. And she will either change or leave.

It will take time to rebuild trust. However if she continues to be shady then it may never happen and you will always be suspicious. Not a good way to live.

She needs to read the book ( it’s short) by Linda MacDonald(or McDonald) called How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. You should read it too.

It’s a self help on what the cheater needs to do to make amends. It’s very simple and provides great insight. However if your cheating spouse refuses to read it (or just doesn’t read it) take that as a sign that they are not invested in making amends and helping you heal. Again, not a good way to live and not a good sign.

I sometimes worry that we scare new BS away with our seemingly hard, harsh or pragmatic advice.

TrashPanda7

Imagine this scenario: You come home to your house on fire. You rush in and throw a bucket of water on the flames in your dining room and then stomp out the glows and embers you might still see. Then you phone a contractor to come to help fix the damage and go online for suggestions on how to handle the burn-marks, the soot and all that.
In some ways, that’s where you are. The fire being the affair and you come home being your d-day. The contractor is the MC. You are asking us how to deal with the soot.

What we would be suggesting – were this a my-house-in-on-fire site – is that you START by making 100% certain the fire is out. No smoldering ember left in the walls, no loose electrical wires... you minimize the risk of the flames starting again.

To do that you would call the fire department, you would accept the damage to your hardwood floors from their boots. If they think it important to rip out more drywall to get to the source, you accept that added damage. Same with water-damage, or if they disconnect the power for half the house... You might be left wondering if the damage is more once they leave – but... you are 100% certain that the cause for the fire has been removed.

We are the fire department. SI-FD...

Once you follow our hard but pragmatic advice chances are you are left in a home that needs extensive repairs and rebuilding. You even run the risk of the contractor telling you the foundations are shot and it’s not repairable. But... whatever you do and whatever is rebuilt the chances of the fire consuming all your time, effort and money again has been minimized.

Thank you everyone for your replies so far. I plan on taking the advice shared. I really like the house fire/fire department analogy.

I've already listened to the how to help your spouse heal from your affair book and plan on asking her to listen to it today.

I still plan on talking to a divorce lawyer to figure out my rights and see what that would look like.

I plan on reaching out to the APs wife. It bothers me that I didn't do it immediately. I think I will do it after talking to a lawyer as well. I'm worried it will cause my WW to react negatively toward me, but if that's the case then obviously her and AP are still in contact and it might tell me all I need to know as far as what direction I take.

I've gotten an std test from my doctor and results have been negative so far, still waiting on a couple results that take longer.

I've been having many more good days than bad days lately which is nice. I just have this underlying anxiety that just kind of hangs around though. It's not nearly as severe as it was in the immediate weeks after dday. Those were borderline panic and overwhelming that would come out of nowhere.

This limbo that I'm in just has me kind of down and anxious.

TPanda,

Continue to reinforce yourself that you did NOTHING to cause her to do this. This was her own choice 100%. If/when she casts blame onto you that is only her defense mechanism to justify her actions.

Stay strong, we'll get through this.

TrashPanda7 - You're going over a lot of familiar territory that so many faithful people have been through. Don't feel bad about yourself at all, your wife is a classic case and she's full of baloney. Ask yourself...."is this relationship acceptable to you?" It's really THE major question people should ask about their relationships. Usually the answer is NO. Who wants to go through life being the marriage police for someone who obviously DOES NOT WANT TO BE MARRIED TO YOU. She wants the benefits of marriage - the "Mrs", the house, the money, the status, whatever you can give or she gets as a result of the relationship. I'm sure she'd love to just move that all right over to AP but life doesn't work that way. Here's my first advice: STOP TALKING TO HER. Stop this damn, endless, pointless talking because she's only going to lie,lie lie, and present herself as a sad little victim who..."I don't know why I do this - I must be ADDICTED!" That's a bunch of bullshit. She's doing this because she wants to. For whatever reasons she really doesn't want to be married to you anymore. Maybe she's bored, maybe he seems sexy, maybe she wants to feel like a teen again (she's gonna get in trouble with those stairwells), she likes the risks and being naughty and adventurous and THESE ARE ALL HER CONSCIOUS DECISIONS, SHE WANTS TO DO THIS, AND SHE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOU AND YOUR MARRIAGE. Stop having these pointless talks - she doesn't care what you think or how you feel - SHE WANTS TO KEEP THE STATUS AND THE BOYFRIEND until she gets ready to leave, on her terms, if she does. This might not be the first time either, and if you stay with her, I bet it won't be the last.

Get an STD test right away, if you have young kids get them DNA tested (yes, it can be that bad), preserve all the evidence you have (even for a no fault state, it will come in handy when she gaslights you if for no other reason), AND GO TO A LAWYER. The one you need to be talking to IS A LAWYER. Find out what divorce looks like for you.....and FILE. Filing for divorce is the single best thing you can do. It shows you mean business and you won't take any bullshit any more. Right now she thinks you are an endless consumer of bullshit she can either bully - DON'T LOOK AT MY PHONE - look at her goddam phone as much as you want - there are NO SECRETS IN MARRIAGE. PERIOD. If she doesn't want you looking at the phone, you know what's going on and where YOU rank. Don't take this. File for divorce and let her know after you have your ducks in a row. Don't tell me how much you "love" her because....it ain't mutual. You are now living with an enemy who will lie, cheat and steal on you. You can always pull the divorce back on any point or you can move forward all the way. If you have hopes of recon, you can even do that after divorce. I have no idea, I really don't, why people want to stay married to someone who repeatedly shows they don't respect you and can't be trusted....but there it is. You've got to toughen up and stop trying to work with someone who is only trying to appease you to put you off the track and then cry or pull some pathetic bullshit to make you feel sorry for her when she gets caught. DON'T FALL FOR THIS. As a woman, I respect strong men. A strong man does NOT put up with bullshit.

I would also recommend you read a book NO SOLICITING (NO SOLICITING: SI.com does not allow soliciting of any kind, publicly OR via Private Message. This includes links, URLs or references to other websites. If you have a product, service or website you believe to be in the interest of SI.com, please contact an Administrator.). It is, IMO, the best book about infidelity, with the best advice on the market and it has helped thousands. I know this site does not like to recommend it and I can't mention the author's name here because she does not go along with recon. I don't generally either....it's the easy way out initially but the problem stays or evolves over time for most people. Right now you may want to save a marriage in crisis but....go 5 years down the road, 10 years....if you stay will this ever really leave your mind? Will you ever fully trust her again or view her the same way again? The answer is generally no, because now you know what she is really like and WHAT SHE THINKS OF YOU. HOW SHE VALUES YOU. Can this change over time? Perhaps, but....I would take the negative view and plan for a life without her. That is a point of strength. That is you getting your power back and saying I WILL NOT BE DISRESPECTED LIKE THIS. People respect that, they admire it, and they will often conform to it, but you have to mean it and show it.

SO, good luck, I know the hell your wife is putting you through but believe me, you don't have to take this. Also, CAN THE MARRIAGE COUNSELING - IT'S A TRAP. It's where your wife and often the counselor will try to convince you that the affair really IS at least 50% your fault, which is bullshit, and that you are really some kind of sad sack or monster or whatever and you forced poor little girl into this. DON'T FALL FOR THIS BULLSHIT AND DON'T GO TO ANY DAMN MARRIAGE COUNSELING. You know what you got - a woman who does not love or respect you. Don't put up with it - you have to start making decisions for yourself. SEE A LAWYER....And yes....I do seem severe....because it really IS this simple, it is. Someone who loves you and values you and your relationship - does not act like this. You wouldn't, would you? Believe me....you will get through this as painful as it is and you may in a couple of years or so realize that maybe things weren't that great after all.....you were just too close to the corpse to smell it. Individual counseling can help - but don't do anything with her. It will be a waste at best and you will be so...so saddened to find her lying once again. People who lie often get better at it.

And btw...YES SHE IS HAVING SEX WITH HIM. You don't go through all that and not be having sex with someone. In YOUR car- what else are they doing in there - knitting scarves? Of course she's having sex with him, stop giving her passes. She's full of shit. YOU ARE NOT. RESPECT YOURSELF.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:14 PM, Monday, November 17th]

Your wife will not react negatively towards you because how else would she know? If she has him blocked as she should and no contact is in place then, in theory, you’d take it to the grave. I’m not suggesting keeping secrets, however you’ll want to give it enough time to determine that they never dropped contact with each other.

If she knows then no contact was never in place.

If she knows, and is remorseful, then you doing an ethical action (informing the other spouse) should be celebrated. If she’s not happy then she’s protecting his happiness over yours.

It’s an excellent litmus test.

Trash
You up for some hard advice?

Anything you do that makes the affair bad or wrong or anything like that will get your wife angry at you. Might as well deal with it right away and accept that’s what’s going to happen.
The divorce attorney will suggest you do not talk to OM wife. That’s because his role is not to save your marriage or end the affair. He only sees the possibility of OM or his wife escalating and causing some legal issues that might make divorce harder. If you are 100% committed to D then fine, don’t tell OM wife, but if you still harbor hopes of R then let her know NOW.

I have been offering this advice for some years now and know that for many that followed this suggestion it led them out of infidelity. That’s the key here – you want out of infidelity, and divorce or reconciliation are only two paths that can get you out. The goal isn’t really to R or to D but rather to get out. Yes you can decide to follow the path of R, but it’s not in your control if it will be clear all the way or if you can clear whatever blockage you encounter. For the longest time these two paths run parallel, and at any time you have the option to switch. For example if your wife were to refuse to commit to NC, that hinderance should get you off the R path on to the D path.

My advice is this. Instead of YOU waiting for your wife to make changes, then YOU make changes. If you have a wish to R, then you allow her to follow – but you set off along the parallel R and D paths irrespective of her participation.
Basically accept some facts... (well... facts to me). That if this affair doesn’t end then your marriage is dead. Therefore it’s better to get that cleared up before you invest more time into a dead marriage.

You tell her something like this:
Wife – I never envisioned our marriage going like this. I believe that even if we had issues we could have communicated and worked them out. Instead you decided to have an affair. That is totally your decision and irrespective of the condition of our marriage that decision is totally 100% on you.
I have come to the realization that losing you is not the worst outcome from this situation. I love you and want to be with you, but even less do I want to share you. I do not share my wife. In fact, the moment you decided to start your infidelity with OM I no longer had you and this marriage was in de facto over.

I love and respect you – or what I thought you were – too much to hold you in this marriage against your wishes. I don’t want you to be here because of where we are in life, our home, lifestyle, families or child. If I did it would create an unhealthy and toxic environment for our child, and I won’t do that to either of you.

I am setting your free of all marital obligations. You can talk openly about OM with your friends, date OM, be with OM, spend nights and days with OM... whatever... but not as my wife. It would be in good taste if you don’t have him in our house and be discreet when in our home, but other than that then you are free to do what you want. Having it out in the open won’t really hurt me any more than it has hurt me already.

I am starting the process of getting out of infidelity. That includes emotionally detaching and detaching our lives from each other. There is a formal process for terminating marriages, and eventually I will get to starting that process. There are laws and procedures in place to make it fair, and we can do this with the minimal pain for our child. It would be immensely better for child to grow up in an environment of mutual respect – and we can do that as coparents but not as a married couple where you are in infidelity.

If you want this marriage you have a short window of opportunity to let me know. That needs to be very clear and unambiguous. It requires some basics such as a total timeline, the truth, accountability and a willingness to work at improving this marriage. I need the total truth, and you need to convince me with accountability and action that the affair is over.

I’m not forcing you. You can decide to stay where you are, or you can decide to be with OM, or you can simply decide you don’t want this marriage. It’s all OK. I can deal with anything you choose. But I am NOT remaining in infidelity.

And then you go make a sandwich or watch a rerun of Friends. You do not participate in arguments. She says she had the affair because you spent too much time at golf – "I’m sorry you feel that way. If we were working on our marriage then this is an issue we would need to address. As you have prioritized your infidelity over us there isn’t really any need to go there now".
That is the standard answer to anything she throws at you. Avoid arguments and confrontation. All you need is to hear her say she wants the marriage and accept the conditions. Until and unless she does so, you start the process of how to detach, separate finances, let stakeholders know, have the house appraised and finding an attorney. You stop making family plans, cancel the trip to Disney, don’t buy a new car, stop talk about expanding the house... You basically start the process of terminating the marriage because until she tells you she willingly and freely wants you, the marriage is dead anyways.