SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I posted the original story when it happened about 2 years ago, but I can’t find that thread so I thought I’d recap it and add some new info.

Frist off, first D-Day was September 10, 2001. We R’d obviously, she did the counseling thing, and a lot of individual work to try and improve herself. All was fairly well.

Until.

October 15, 2019. Second DDay. Though I have no evidence of actual physical contact, there is certainly evidence of an EA. I caught a FB Messenger message from him to her with some very sexual language. At the end of the day, I should have held out longer and built up more intel so I had a clearer understanding of what was happening. But I didn’t. Things seemed to get better (I found a few “How to Improve a Broken Relationship” type websites pulled up on her phone for example) and eventually I got over it.

Flash forward to July 3, 2021. Her contact with OM had been through a summer school program in which she works as a teacher aide, he is the gym teacher. When I found out he would be there again, I said nothing (she doesn’t know that I know), and began to observe. I wound up catching a FB message from her to him with very suggestive content. He blew her off, though, which actually made me chuckle. I have actually come to believe he sees her as a friend and doesn’t want to get involved with her (she’s 50 and about 15 years older than he is). I base this on some of the messages from the previous episode (she told him I’d be on an overnight camping trip and he never responded to that, when she said I had found out he told her “We are friends” a few times but she didn’t seem to want to hear that.)

Anyway, I’m not completely done yet, but I can see it from here. Given the magnitude of the life change, I need to KNOW. I’m setting up my intel network. VAR, GPS, electronics passcodes etc. I want as close to incontrovertible proof as I can have before I pull the trigger.

I’ve also been reading up on and taking notes on divorce law in my state. I will be contacting lawyers as well. I’ve a few friends who have been recently divorced and I will be hitting them up for any advice too.

Any advice or thoughts, guidance, heartfelt comments, or reality checks would be greatly appreciated.

Is this the same OM from 2001 or a different one? Either way, it's bad juju. I used to be a little more hardline on "divorce right now" but now I tend to try to be a little softer because I think reconciliation can and does happen for some people. That said, in situations like yours, I think it would be practically insurmountable:

Option 1 - she's been conducting a 20 year relationship and has made your entire marriage a complete farce.

Option 2 - she's a serial cheater and you just happened to catch her this time, making your entire marriage a complete farce.

Serial cheaters are notoriously bad prospects for reconciliation. Someone conducting a two-decade affair would have to rank up very high on that same scale for being a really bad candidate for reconciliation. Adultery is abuse. So she's been abusing you for 20 years.

EDIT TO ADD: I don't know why at this stage you'd want to go through the entire marriage police "spy vs spy" stuff. You know more than enough. Your WW can't keep her panties on around other men, doesn't want to, and has no intentions of being faithful to you.

If you're seeing an attorney, maybe just go ahead and file and cut through the Gordian's knot in one clean slice of the sword.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:52 AM, July 16th (Friday)]

If he’s no longer interested what are you trying to find? More of her striking out with him? She’s already pushed past what I would assume were agreed upon boundaries. This is continued infidelity. If that’s your line you don’t need any more.

so sorry you are here again.

If you don't want her finding out you should be carful about talking to others about it. People talk. It sounds like you are done. If so, you don't need more evidence. You can just act. A PI is still an option for the best evidence. You have to ask yourself what you want. If you want evidence to shock and awe to shake her out of it and hopefully R, keep digging. If you want evidence to D, you don't need it.

Good luck to you.

I need to KNOW.

What exactly do you need to know? That she is trying to cheat? That you don't love her? That she isn't committed to your M anymore?

If you don't want to be married to her because she isn't giving you her all, you don't need more evidence of cheating. I mean, you should be open and transparent with each other. If you are both dissatisfied, just end it. There is nothing wrong with ending an unhappy M. You don't have to have proof to do that.

If you don't want to be married to her because she isn't giving you her all, you don't need more evidence of cheating. I mean, you should be open and transparent with each other. If you are both dissatisfied, just end it. There is nothing wrong with ending an unhappy M. You don't have to have proof to do that.

Exactly. What is it that YOU want? If she started digging deep again to try to get to the bottom of her issues, would you still want to stay? Or is the damage already too severe?

THERE IS NO WRONG ANSWER. As long as you are trying to deal with reality.

Thumos - nope, different guy from 2001.

As to what I'm waiting for, well I go from "fuck it, we're done" to " well, maybe...." often enough that I know I need to have it hit me in the face hard enough, and it hasn't yet.

I also feel like I don't want to put my kids through it (even though they are older) unless it's pretty cut and dried.

There is a part of me that ghoulishly enjoys hearing her on the VAR bitch about the latest development - he's unfriended her on facebook (he unfriended a lot of people in the last day or two, yes I snoop there too). And she's not too happy about it.

And I know this isn't going to go over well, but she's been going through what I would call a "mid-life crisis" over the last year or so. She also lost her Mom back in November, and we are having the funeral tomorrow. She is taking it VERY hard. Two days after her mom passed, we lost my Dad. Over the next three weeks, she lost two uncles. Then it was Christmas. So my family has been hit hard with a lot of shit recently. I know that is affecting her deeply. So somewhere in the back of my mind, I feel there may be a chance that this is a symptom of those events. And maybe, I want to create a little more space between the losses we suffered and the pain that a divorce would create. I guess I'm willing to take one for my kids and other family members, suck it up, and hold out a bit longer before pulling the trigger.

Exactly. What is it that YOU want? If she started digging deep again to try to get to the bottom of her issues, would you still want to stay? Or is the damage already too severe?

THERE IS NO WRONG ANSWER. As long as you are trying to deal with reality.

Today, now, my answer is "I don't know."

It may be different in a few days or a few hours. If she reacted the way she reacted in 2001 - very remorseful, went into IC on her own accord, answered every question I asked, and gracefully handled the piles of anger I heaped upon her over the months that followed, I may be willing to stay.

But if she blows it off as no big deal, or tries to weasel out of it and accepts no fault, or tries to pin it all on me, then it will probably be game over.

I'm dragging myself to the finish line here. It's not easy after 26 years to just give up, and the depth of the love I've had for this woman over most of the length of our marriage has been almost frightening.

If he’s no longer interested what are you trying to find? More of her striking out with him? She’s already pushed past what I would assume were agreed upon boundaries. This is continued infidelity. If that’s your line you don’t need any more.

If I admitted that I find her striking out with him immensely satisfying on what is probably a deeply childish level, would that be so bad? A little gallows humor before the death of our marriage?

[This message edited by wantnomore at 12:45 PM, July 16th (Friday)]

It's not easy after 26 years to just give up

You’re not the one who’s giving up. Is there any doubt that if he was at all receptive that she would be with him every chance she got? Unless she’s a psychopath she has an idea of the damage and pain her prior infidelities have caused you. Now after a loss instead of turning to her husband she’s turning away from you and picking up the same old knife she used before.

I'd get my ducks in a row, if she doesn’t come clean of her own accord by the time you’re ready to file, then file.

I'd be concerned with the attempt to make contact again. I'd be concerned about her not telling you he's around.

My reco is to keep working to figure out what you want. If you want R, there'll be a lot more you have to do, but you can save yourself all that effort if you decide you want D.

There is a part of me that ghoulishly enjoys hearing her on the VAR bitch about the latest development - he's unfriended her on facebook (he unfriended a lot of people in the last day or two, yes I snoop there too). And she's not too happy about it.

You may think you'd like to hear a conversation but trust me you don't. Ask me how I know.

You have plenty of information. You know she is a serial cheater. The odds are that she's been cheating throughout your 20 years together after the first DDAY. This is just the first instance you caught on again thanks the plague of “social media”

I'd say that is pretty cut and dried.

So when your family member dies you didn't try to bang some other woman? Odd.

Also, you would NOT be giving up. It is really her that has crapped on the relationship with at least two infidelities (that you know of).

Was not a stipulation of your first R that this must never happen again? Was the last an EA, PA or both?

My wife's EA sort of involved/spanned her mother's death and my father's death.

I can say dealing with that grief isn't easy.

I do think you should bring your uncertainty about your marriage and its future OPENLY to your wife. Wrestling with it internally meant appearing to have outbursts of wanting divorce. To it being a bad mood. I have since been much more clear about the how I feel, and that we need to be ok with just being "a little further from the brink" instead of totally happy.

My mom & FIL passed away less than a month from each other. Two years later, my MIL passed. He cheated - I didn't. The deaths didn't play into his A, but his entitlement did.

My ultimatum was no more inappropriate relationships with women. He crossed the line, and I said I was done. I filed for D one week prior to our 34th anniversary.

He was never going to be a safe partner & I wasn't willing to police him for the rest of my life. I'm so much happier now.

There is a part of me that ghoulishly enjoys hearing her on the VAR bitch about the latest development - he's unfriended her on facebook (he unfriended a lot of people in the last day or two, yes I snoop there too). And she's not too happy about it.

You may think you'd like to hear a conversation but trust me you don't. Ask me how I know.

I hear what you are saying, but that may be the wakeup call I need to push the needle.

Was not a stipulation of your first R that this must never happen again? Was the last an EA, PA or both?

I honestly don't know if the last one was EA or PA, but based on my observations and best evidence I could find, it was only EA.

I do think you should bring your uncertainty about your marriage and its future OPENLY to your wife. Wrestling with it internally meant appearing to have outbursts of wanting divorce. To it being a bad mood. I have since been much more clear about the how I feel, and that we need to be ok with just being "a little further from the brink" instead of totally happy.

This is an excellent suggestion, when the dust settles a bit, I'll start the conversation.

Anyway, I’m not completely done yet, but I can see it from here. Given the magnitude of the life change, I need to KNOW. I’m setting up my intel network. VAR, GPS, electronics passcodes etc. I want as close to incontrovertible proof as I can have before I pull the trigger.

Stop punishing yourself. You already know everything you need to about the fact that, at the very least, she is attempting to cheat on you. Again. The chances that she hasn't cheated on you consistently since the first D-Day are small.

This really how you want to spend the remainder of your life? Playing cop to an indifferent cheater? Why wait at all when you know she's done it in the past? Wasn't there a zero tolerance policy in place after the first time she cheated? Why do you need certainty when you know she's a cheater?

I understand when a person doesn't want to accuse someone before proof. But that only makes sense if they have never cheated in the past. She has. And honestly, she wouldn't be engaging in any activities that would even hint at cheating if you both truly were in R. Yet she keeps doing it. Think that's significant?

Some cheaters get a taste for cheating. It becomes like cocaine to them. Your wife and my wife might be sisters.