SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi,

I recently found this forum and I am looking for advice.

I have read some of the other threads and found that there are lots of similar stories to mine.

This one in particular from alucard struck a chord with myself.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/653600/destroyed-i-think-this-is-the-end-please-please-help-me/?AP=1

Many of the replies were useful to me and have helped so I am hoping I can get the same kind of response.

As far as I can tell my WW has not been in contact with her AP for a long time but my worry is that it may change as this seems to happen regularly to other betrayed spouses.

Here is my story (it’s a long one, as my WW said to her AP)

D-Day was in 2020.

Things had been gradually getting worse between us for around 2 years prior to that.

We had drifted apart, not much in common apart from our children, lack of communication, resentment towards each other.

Over this time period, our sex life had pretty much dwindled to nothing.

Plenty of red flags were present and also the way she guarded her phone made me think that if I could gain access I would find evidence of an affair or something else that might explain her behaviour.

Her phone was touch ID protected but I managed to work out the passcode by watching her type it on the occasions when the touch ID did not work.

When she was charging her phone and she was not around I would quickly snoop on her phone.

It took a few attempts but eventually I found messages to and from her AP.

My wife had been having an emotional and physical affair.

The evidence on her phone was damning.

She sent him intimate pictures, she mentioned the great sex they had and how large he was, she said she had fallen in love with him.

I felt physically sick and emasculated, my world and life as I knew it was falling apart. On the positive side it became clear that the physical affair was over.

He had ended it because he felt guilty and chose his wife over mine.

A few months after the physical affair had ended the AP changed jobs and after that he moved away.

My wife would still message him occasionally but he either ignored the message or gave short replies.

It seemed as though she was still in love with him but he wanted nothing to do with my wife any more.

When I confronted my WW she assumed someone had told me rather than me reading her messages.

On D-Day my WW lied and played down the affair, saying they only kissed and stopped before it went too far.

I kept calm and decided not to make any rash decisions, sleep on it but continue the questions the next day and if necessary show her some proof that they had been physical.

The next morning, before I had chance to continue the confrontation she admitted to having sex a ‘few’ times but it was over.

She told me that she liked the attention her AP gave her and ‘thought’ that I did not love her, she said it was a mistake, she ‘believed’ she was in love and he loved her.

Since D-Day, I have been working on myself, trying to heal, I have had individual counselling.

My WW says she loves me with all her heart, she has said sorry many times and tries to assure me that she will never do anything like this again, she is fully committed to me and hopes to have a happy future with me.

My wife appears remorseful with her words and she has not changed her passcode and given me the passwords to her email accounts and social media.

She hands me her phone when I request it. I told her never again to contact her AP and tell me if he messages her otherwise I will file for divorce. I believe she has stuck to no contact but I cannot be 100% sure.

I still love my wife and would prefer to reconcile but I am not sure if I can get over the betrayal and whether I can ever fully trust her again.

Although she has answered a lot of my questions it has been like getting blood out of a stone.

She does not give full answers to some of my questions, uses diversion tactics (e.g. love bombing) to avoid answering and says she does not want to cause me any more pain.

Her attitude is, she’s knows she did wrong and wishes she had not had the affair but she cannot change what happened but to me I think she is still hiding things.

Something else to throw into the mix.

She cheated on her first long term boyfriend, she slept with other boys whilst she was with him. I know this because she told me when we first started dating and said she would never do that to me.

Although she was very young when she cheated on him it perhaps proves the old adage ‘Once a cheater, always a cheater’.

When I reminded her recently about her first proper boyfriend she said she cheated on him with just the one person.

I did not follow this up but I remember clearly that it was more than 1 so she was either gaslighting, minimising or she had genuinely forgotten the numbers as it was a long time ago (I doubt she forgot though as she has a very good memory especially when it comes to things that I have done wrong in our relationship).

It is worth pointing that I have never been unfaithful in my life despite having girls come on to me, admittedly this has not happened since I was a lot younger, fitter, happier and better looking but that could all change now that I have improved myself.

Given that I want to be able to trust her again and I know a lot more than she thinks I know, my cunning plan is to ask questions that I know the answer to and see if she can tell the truth or continues to evade or lie to me. Without trust and respect there is no marriage.

I have not asked for any of the sex details, I know enough already and I don’t want to hear any more.

Does that seem like a good strategy? Am I wasting my time over thinking this? Does anyone have any better ideas to help my trust issues with her?

I am not totally against divorcing my lying cheating wife but I know that will have a big financial impact and affect our family in a bad way hence my preference for reconciliation.

Thanks for reading.

[This message edited by HelpMeSurvive at 3:48 AM, July 9th (Friday)]

HMS,

Sorry you find yourself here. If you’ve been reading here awhile you know one of the standard pieces of advice is a written timeline. I think this fits your plan and also gets things down in a black and white baseline and makes it hard to back track. It should also include any inappropriate behavior with other men since you’ve been a couple. You can tell her it will be verified by polygraph.

It sounds like you want her to come clean on her own. That’s a rare thing for waywards. Very few “get it” independently. If you haven’t visited the healing library here do so. Read Joseph’s Letter. Print it out and give it to her before the sit down. Make changes to fit your situation and cut off the url so she can’t track it to this site. You don’t need her reading the advice you receive.

When I reminded her recently about her first proper boyfriend she said she cheated on him with just the one person.

I did not follow this up but I remember clearly that it was 3 and not one so she was either gaslighting, minimising or she had genuinely forgotten the numbers

She’s more likely forgotten she told you the number.

If you haven’t already read the pinned threads at the top of the just found out forum, as well as articles in the healing library.

Other standard advice is to require std testing and even paternity test for the kids if there’s any doubt whatsoever.

One way to check no contact is to tell the other betrayed spouse. Tell your WW to block her AP on all possible avenues. If she comes to you pissed off about you telling his wife you know she’s broken NC. Plus it’s the right thing to do. OBS deserves to know the reality of the state of her marriage.

[This message edited by asc1226 at 8:54 AM, July 3rd (Saturday)]

Hi, welcome to SI.

Unfortunately, as you surely understand lurking here, the WS rarely tells the truth, they minimize and manipulate and it sounds like your WW fits that mold.

I asked my WH point blank if the AP ever sent him any gifts, he denied and denied, several months later one of his co-workers (AP worked across the country) sent him an email asking if he put that "gift" up in his place of business (that he managed part-time). I asked WH about it, he said he forgot about it, they don't forget, they are just trying to cover their a$$es.

Before you ask any further questions, I would certainly inform the other BS. She deserves to know she is living a lie and potentially at risk for STDs. Don't tell your wife if you decide to do this.

It takes YEARS to trust again, not weeks or months. Her actions will speak volumes, right now her words are meaningless. She's probably in self-preservation mode.

You cannot trust someone who you know is actively deceiving and lying to you. It requires years of consistent actions not a short time of saying the right words and make sure you do not ever accept the usual shift that this is your problem because you can't just trust her/get over it. This often happens when they get tired of playing the act remorseful game and want thing to go back to normal, but still have not told you the full truth.

I'm sure you see the fundamental paradox of your post. You know your WW is lying to you, but you're asking us for suggestions on how to trust her.

Look, every newly minted BH wants the same thing: a return to the faithful wife they thought they had before dday. Friend, we're all betrayed men. We felt that way too.

You'll heal when you realize that this is an illusion. What you want is a pipe dream, and what you're desperately seeking to stuff in your pipe is the opiate of every BH: hopium.

Your path to healing is to open your eyes and see your WW for the person she actually is, rather than the person you wish she would be.

HelpMeSurvive,

Sounds like your WW is still rooting for her AP. As long as she is doing this, you are in Infidelity, not Reconciliation.

I suggest you post in Just Found Out.

In the meantime, if you have access to her phone, put a monitoring app on her phone.

Like other posters have said, ask for a detailed timeline. Ask her the AP name, phone number, any contact information. Tell her you will tell his wife. Watch her reaction. If she says no, she is protecting her AP.

WW cheating with a trainer is very common. Your WW was in love with him, but chances are he was sleeping with multiple women. Get tested for STD (and your WW too).

Your WW has cheated with her BF and with you with no consequences. For her it’s no big deal, she only had sex a couple of times.

Talk to a lawyer so you know what D looks like.

Be ready to D her if she’s not doing the work.

You can’t.

I would have her read a book like - How to help your spouse heal from your affair.

Then ask her to write out a timeline.

I would ask for her phone again and let her know that i was able to access some of the messages that they exchanged.

Then I would use the timeline and the messages I read on D-day to find out how trustworthy she is. Let her know that lying will not make you feel better and will not help the relationship. That you are trying to build back trust.

I'd ask things like: Who broke up with who? to test if she telling the truth but throw in questions you don't know as well like - Has he tried to contact you since.

I would also contact the OBS and let her know about the affair. She has a right to know that her husband has been cheating on her. He could easily do it again. After you've let the OBS know you can see if he contact your WW and if she tells you about that contact.

Good luck

HMS, I'll cut to the chase. You are 6 months post D-Day. When it comes to "trust"...that still doesn't exist. The blind trust that you once had is gone. It will not likely return. At this point, your WW must EARN every little bit of trust back.

How does she do that?

Consistent behavior demonstrated over the course of time. It took an instant of a decision to blow up what it took a lifetime to build. I'm 4 1/2 years out and I still do not trust fully. There are some basics like I do believe that my wife is where she said she was going. But if she didn't say where she was going, then I get suspicious. Not because I believe she is off doing something nefarious, but simply because she isn't being accountable for her whereabouts. If I call or text, she tells me where she is and I believe her. But it's in the moment of "you didn't say you were going anywhere, there isn't anything listed on the calendar...where are you?" that the trust is disturbed.

Keep posting, keep reading. This is a long row to hoe.

Read everything posted above, over and over. It's one of the best advice streams I've seen here.

The biggest killer for us on the way to discovery can be denial. We're still in denial about "this is my life now".

You can have a very successful M from here on and I hope that you do get there but you will never escape "this is my life now".

P.S. To posters above. Awesome stuff.

HelpMeSurvive,

BTW did you expose the OM to his BW, if not get to work, also demand OM pay you back whatever your WW paid him for "training".

Have your WW write out a timeline, tell her to include everything including any prior affairs, and then take her for a polygraph. Her confession about cheating on her bf with 3 men may indicate that she is a serial cheater at a basic level.

If she is as honest as she now claims to be it will not be an issue.

Can you imagine still being with your WW 20 years form now knowing that she is still lying or omitting to you, I can tell you that time does not diminish certain kinds of pain without truth. In a sense if she does not give a full and self emptying confession you cannot give full forgiveness.

[This message edited by survrus at 7:35 PM, July 3rd (Saturday)]

So basically you are her plan B, her boyfriend dumped her and all she had left was good old you, based on what you posted she probably would have left you for him. Have you asked her this ? OTOH expose the A to OBS immediately and without warning, it's the right thing to do, plus OBS could have access to more info and provide a second set of eyes to help with NC.

Have you expose her huge betrayal with all family and close friends yet ? FULL exposure typically kills the "beautiful, exciting and romantic" aspects of an A and replaces it with pure shame and embarrassment, the more she hates the A the more she will hate AP, it could help with remorse too, no true remorse, no chance to successfully R. You mentioned you have been reading, has she provided a full written timeline of the A ? STD tests ? Polygraph ?

Don't ever trust a person who lies to your face. So if you're asking if you can ever trust your WW, the correct answer would be, NO. You know the truth, like literally you're comparing notes from their messages against her words and it didn't match. Would you think you can trust that person again? There's a strong possibility that she's also lying in trying to get back to you.
Her plan A didn't work. She got dumped. The only reason she's with you now is because the other guy quit on her. If he didn't they would still be together now and you've been left in the dust. Sorry but that is the truth.
Would there be similar incident in the future again? Probably! High probability! She practically cheated on all of her previous relationships. The moment another OM comes into the picture, expect the same scenario to be repeated. She never learned her lesson. She didn't get any negative side effects from it. Not even a slap on the wrist.
You never asked her for the truth you say because you already know the truth. But asking for the truth that comes out of her that matches what you know is essential. It's essential for your trust. It's essential that you know now that she's telling the truth. But sadly she didn't tell you. She's downgrading everything she said to you.
Sorry but you're in a sad reality now. You're not even her plan B. You're her temporary until a new guy comes in.
All the best!

[This message edited by beb252 at 11:19 PM, Sunday, July 4th]

Thanks for all your replies, plenty of things to do and consider.

I am going out for the day with my WW so have not got time to reply fully and answer some of the questions. We are getting along just fine now, she is trying to make me happy but what I want is to be able to trust her again.

I'll be back.

My W changed on d-day. From that day forward, she told no more lies. My assertion is based now on 10+ years of her telling the truth in every verifiable situation that we've experienced, and it's based on her oral and non-verbal communications.

At 2.5 years out, our MC said, 'It's too early to trust.'

Take your time. Trust has to be earned by consistent truth-telling. Your W isn't doing what she needs to do.

In order to even begin to build trust, your wife must take the appropriate steps. So far she continues to lie. You should sit her down and tell her that without trust the marriage will not survive. You must demand a written timeline from her. She must provide answers as to how the affair started, the length of the affair, and how it ended. You must ask her if she was in love and is still in love with the AP. You must ask her when she last contacted the AP. You must ask her for information that you already possess in order to check her veracity.

Tell her it is her last chance to come clean and that any further lies will result in severe consequences. If she lies on the information you know to be true, you have your answer to whether you can build trust with her.

She has a history of cheating. Unless she undergoes a major metamorphosis, she will likely cheat again in the future. I am a BS who foolishly gave the ex-wife a second chance. I lived to regret it.

I'm sorry you're here, but I'm glad you found this site.

He had ended it because he felt guilty and chose his wife over mine.

He probably didn't feel any guilt. He just wanted to have sex with any woman and it bothered him that things got serious when your WW said she was in love with him. I don't think it was his first A. Your WW and you should definitely get an STD test.

You also should inform OBS about the relationship. It probably won't be the first time she's heard of such a thing. In addition, even though he has moved, it would be appropriate to inform his new workplace and, his professional association (if any) for his behavior that does not comply with business ethics.

Good thing you didn't tell your WW what you know and how. So you can see who she is, and as you see she is a liar.

No matter how much she apologizes and begs, actions are important, not words. She didn't choose you, now that the AP dumped her, she is trying to look like you're her choice.

She does not give full answers to some of my questions, uses diversion tactics (e.g. love bombing) to avoid answering and says she does not want to cause me any more pain.

How thoughtful, she has a heart of gold (!).

She cheated on her first long term boyfriend, she slept with at least 3 other boys whilst she was with him. I know this because she told me when we first started dating and said she would never do that to me.

I said this in another thread recently.

If something is possible, it can happen. The key here is to reduce these possibilities.

For this, it is necessary to be a good observer, to be able to look at what is going on objectively, and to be able to accept it even if there is an undesired result.

The first rule of good observance is how she treats others, not just you. Her personality can be understood from her behavior to others, not to the person she has interest in.

No one stays with their enemy. She loved her ex-boyfriend once, she didn't plan to cheat on him, but in the end, she cheated on him with 3 people. You should have been able to predict that those days would come for you, too.

Now she proved that she is a serial cheater. This may not be the first time she has cheated on you. Ask her for a detailed timeline of her A, subject to the polygraph test. Make her understand that if the slightest lie or partial concealment of the truth comes out, or even if she tries this, you'll be done with her. And don't bluff.

If you don't want to deal with all this, file her.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 2:48 PM, July 5th (Monday)]

So I have two replies.

First, I like the idea of making a list of known facts and then asking her to try and start rebuilding trust by answering the questions. If she lies in those questions, you will probably never get a straight answer from her again.

As to whether or not you can truly trust her again, my answer is 'no'. Trust & faith are made up from facts. When people wed or live together, those facts are that in my heart (faith) and in my mind (trust) I know you will never betray me. We will work it out. But now those facts have changed forever. The are that you have betrayed all faith & trust and can easily do so again. A fake trust can be built (access to email, checking in...) but there are such easy work arounds that it's meaningless to even consider those things.

As to the betrayer, all they can do is to be trusting and faithful in all things and be able to sleep with themselves at night. If they can do that, over time I think a semblance of trust & faith returns- but only to a certain degree.

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 5:45 PM, July 5th (Monday)]

She's a serial cheater.

Do you really think you caught her the first time she cheated on you?

Demand a polygraph.

I am back to answer the questions above.

I have not had a written timeline but from messages read and from the questions my WW has answered I have built up a good picture of the whole affair. I don't know all the intimate details and I don't want to know but I am assuming the worst and I will have to live with that.

A lot of my wife's version of events matches the messages I have read, for example, when the affair started and ended, where they had sex. I can ask a question and there is no way of knowing if she is telling the truth or not, I suppose that is why a polygraph is the best solution to extract the truth. There have been occasions when she has been brutally honest with her answers when she did not have to be as there would be no way for me to prove it without a poly. She told me that he had finished it and at the time was upset. I asked my wife if he had not ended it and he had offered to leave his wife for her would she have left me, she replied possible and then said probably.

Other times I can ask a hypothetical question and she will reply that she does not know or did not think properly about what she was doing.

I asked if I was plan B, she said she did not have a plan but the evidence points to the fact that I was indeed plan B.

Neither of us has had an STD/I test. We have had unprotected sex plenty of times after their physical affair ended but also occasionally during the times she must have been having sex with the AP. I do not have any symptoms, is it important that we both get checked?

As far as I know she has 'only' cheated on one of her previous boyfriends.

I have asked if she has ever cheated on me before or since the AP I know of and she says she has not. Do I believe that? No I don't, there is a good chance she has but again I have no way of knowing without a polygraph. She has said she will accept any consequences that I decide so she should agree to taking a poly.

She has said that she thought she loved her AP but now says it was a huge mistake and a fantasy and that I am her one and only true love. As someone said this is probably her in self-preservation mode.

She has said her loving feelings towards her AP started to disappear after he moved away. They did still contact each other on WhatsApp but not often (e.g. Birthdays and Christmas). From the messages I have read, it was my WW doing most of the chatting, he was trying to distance himself from her without trying to hurt her feelings. He apologised for hurting her, he said they went too far, he still loved his wife and he encouraged my WW to makes things better between us. On D-Day (just over 7 months ago) she said she broke off all contact with him, I do believe this but again I could be wrong.

Thanks for all your help so far. I have a plan based on all the replies. As suggested, I have told my WW that this is her last chance to answer all my questions with the full truth, no hiding anything. I told her that she must tell me a truth rather than a lie even if she thinks or knows it will hurt me. If I know she is lying or discover later that she has lied again then there will be serious consequences. She has agreed to do this, the proof will be in the pudding.