SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So I think I've read it 1000 times. I've scoured the internet. I've tried to understand but I feel like I get it lost in the shuffle.

What does remorse look like? What does remorse say? What does remorse do? I feel like I get the difference between them all. I'm not asking if my WW is any of those just clear cut examples of what is remorseful action/talk/appearance.

My definition . . .

Remorse comes from a place of humility and ownership.

It means taking full responsibility for how you screwed up and no longer having the need to explain why it was justified or not so bad, etc.

It means being genuinely broken at the pain you inflicted on your partner and wishing you could take it away.

It means imagining what that pain feels like and not flinching when your partner expresses it, but instead dropping everything to offer comfort and apologies.

It means being able to face the affair at any time, understanding that this is what grownups who have caused great harm have to do.

It means expressing in word and deed how far you have come from being a person who would make those choices.

It means committing to bettering yourself so that you have the emotional resources to face stress and struggles in a healthy way.

It means viewing any natural consequence of the affair ( needing to enter IC, quit your job, confess and apologize to people who need to know) as something to be done with humility and gratitude at the second chance you are receiving.

It means striving to be a better person for your own sake, even if your BS will not take you back.

[This message edited by swmnbc at 12:44 PM, August 7th, 2017 (Monday)]

I suggest reading 'Beyond Regret and Remorse' - http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=586809&AP=61&HL=

Consider this, though. My W answered my questions from the start; she immediately went NC via text, and kept NC except for necessary business, which she wrapped up quickly; she was in IC; she got us time with her IC on d-day, took confrontation after confrontation, and changed slowly (though quickly enough for me to stick around).

At 18 months, she went to a g2g. She was the only WS, but she was accepted by the other people their as a full-fledged human being.

And she says she didn't begin to feel remorse until at least 5 months after d-day. She says she didn't see her A as just another sordid little A for months. She told her IC/our MC and me that she didn't think she was remorseful, though not in so many words.

But her actions looked like remorse and contrition from d-day on.

Actions speak so much louder than words.

Yup this!!! /\/\/\ Both of these!

[This message edited by OrdinaryDude at 1:00 PM, August 7th (Monday)]

My wife's remorse basically looks like she wants to be with me.

She's kind, she asks how I am, she goes out of her way to answer all my endless questions, she is all in, she gives me space when I need it and will leave work early if I'm having a tough day.

The first few weeks after dday were tough -- she wasn't sure if going all in would even make a difference.

I told her I never wanted to EVER wonder how she felt about me again.

Show me, don't tell me.

And she does.

I think remorse can LOOK and FEEL differently to different people...and each wayward has to determine what it not only looks like for themselves...but what it looks like for their betrayed.

Someone here cannot determine what my remorse needs to look like...only my spouse can do that.

in my own case...my husband did not SEE the remorse he was looking for for thirty years...he could not describe to me what he needed to see....but when he came to a forum ASKING others what remorse looked like...many told him I had shown him remorse all those years by my actions.

I can give you my definition as it applies to me..

Remorse means that i had to let go of my own pain in order to truly experience his. It means that i NEED to feel how deeply i hurt him for him to beleive that i understand what i did. He feared that if i did not understand how badly i had hurt him...I might do it again....and for him...that was indeed the bottom line.

Remorse means doing everything in my power to make him feel safe in this relationship....transparency, boundaries, loyalty, unselfishness. It means being perceptive...watching for times when doubt crosses his mind...and giving him the assurance that i know he hurts...and that i will always be here to help him carry it. It means DOING the things he needs me to do to help him feel safe...remorse is an action.

I think acheiving Remorse is a process...you have to feel guilt and sorrow and regret in order to get to remorse...and each step takes time.

Just remember a time in your past you were remorseful over something you did. Even if the transgression wasn't near as bad as what your WW has done you can imagine that she would be as desperate in showing you. Thats one of the ways I view remorse. Ive seen people accidentally bump their shopping cart into anothers and their body language and words were probably more than what you have received from WW. To me its a desperate act to show you that she knows there is no way you will ever know how sorry she is and that you probably never will, if she indeed is sorry.

Remorse must have actions in this case. She has to work through that like you have to work through your end.

[This message edited by NewDayforDad at 2:36 PM, August 7th (Monday)]

Dostl10.

There is are thread right now in the wayward forum. It's about the work waywards should be doing.

Check it out and strength to you.

Strength

NewDay,

SO I have not shared this yet but I feel like I am trying to own some shit recently. No excuses but when I was coming of age the internet was becoming all the rage and holy shit if a 13 year old coming of age didn't discover pornography online and chatting and so on. Well long story short it became a problem. I hid it well until current WW and I were together and she discovered it. Holy shit if I didn't do anything and everything to show her I would be better. I owned it right away. It killed me to know I hurt her. It killed me to know I could lose her so I put my all into figuring out how to get better, to prove I was a better person than that. I read book after book. She put blocks on the computer that allowed her to track everything 24/7 remotely and dare I say to this day I believe I am a better man. It was something I struggled with for years. I'd stop and then start again, stop and then start again. She was the catalyst for me to say holy fuck what is really important and what is not anymore. It was an addiction for sure and one that I owned, one that when I realized the pain it caused her I was so, so, so, so, so sorry for. It killed me to know I caused her any sort of pain and I think I've tried to live every day since that day to show her how important she was to me.

4kids,

is it the lifeboat one?

I've read that before. Such a great analogy.

My situation was about 11 years ago just for a time frame. We were fresh out of college and had moved in together. I thank god to this day that she discovered it to be honest.

I think the biggest show of remorse from my husband was in three ways.

1. He sent a letter to the OW (which eventually served as the NC letter) telling them off and laying the smack down on them. Showing me more loyalty to them and letting them know he wasn't thinking of them fondly.

2. He publically apologized on FB to me and our friends and family effectively destroying anything he built on his ego trip with OW. Showing that he was willing to risk himself for me.

3. He stopped being defensive and admitted to who he really was during the affair.

If you asked him, he would say it was when he realized he was so disgusted with himself he couldn't even sit in the same room as himself let alone even expect me to. After that he turned it all about me and how I was impacted by his actions. I think it happened over time with each step that he was willing to put me first or the benefit of our children.

Remorse goes beyond regret and guilt. Like a person saying they don't murder because they don't have the right to hurt another human being that way (that is like remorse). Where someone might say they don't murder because they don't want to go to jail (regret). Regret is all about them and their journey, how it impacts them. Remorse is about how in impacts others.

Thanks hopeful. After Dday when my WW wrote an NC message to AP I got a flood of tears. Way more over a 4 month A, than our 14 year relationship.

Yes dostl10. That is the thread. You have been reading. That's good. 😊

I've been reading tons

It's a good thing to remember that she helped you through a very dark time that had the potential to end your relationship...extending a helping hand to her now does not degrade your manhood, but it may help increase your capacity for mercy and grace, while rebuilding the bond you share.

I think I've tried to live every day since that day to show her how important she was to me.

Sounds like a good example of remorse to me.

I find a simplicity in knowing what remorse is (for me) by focusing on two things:

1. If there is any hint of defensiveness over anything at any time, there is not remorse.

2. Empathy is the cornerstone of all behaviors that demonstrate remorse. If a WS understands what empathy is and is able to make it the motivation for their every R effort, then there is likely genuine remorse.

Empathy...the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner.

In other words, a WS that really has empathy, knows what their BS is feeling and the understands the depth of their pain so clearly that the BS would not have to objectively explain it to them.

Some WS's talk of empathy but like so many other affair related things, they often don't fully get it.

[This message edited by DIFM at 10:36 AM, August 10th (Thursday)]

What I would need as a show of remorse is what is your WS willing to do to make amends? Are they willing to quit their job? Willing to confess what they've done to friends and family, or people they may have lied about you to while they were cheating? What significant personal sacrifices are they willing to make to stay with you?

People can say anything and put on a decent show but people who are willing to sacrifice for you really mean it. I read where a WS got together friends, family, and even co-workers and publicly confessed to what they had done and the pain they had caused their BS. They asked for all their forgiveness and help so that they could rebuild what they (WS) had destroyed.

It was a very well-respected person. They didn't have to do that. BS was willing to keep their dirty secret. They did it because they wanted the BS to know they were seriously remorseful. They lost a lot of respect that day from a lot of people but they were willing to lose that respect in order to set the record straight to all their loved ones about what was going on.

For me I think personal sacrifice is the biggest indicator.

Let me ask you, what has your WW sacrificed, that would otherwise not have had to, to show you she's really remorseful?

Not arguing here, just sharing.

Empathy

I don't get empathy, though a couple of people I like and respect say I'm very empathic.

But I look at and hear a person, and I think of umpteen things that could make that person look the way s/he does. I know s/he maybe feeling something, but I don't know what that is.

When my W tried to comfort me in the early days (1st 2 years?!), her words rarely hit the mark, unless she started with, 'Is there something you want from me,' or with a touch. And she often had to tell me exactly what to say to give her the comfort that she wanted/wants (although I've learned some about what she wants to hear when).

Defensiveness

I think defensiveness is a form of fear, so that's how I treat it. My W was scared a lot after d-day. She was desperately afraid I'd leave.

As I questioned her, then, I was OK with her being defensive, as long as she gave me what I wanted, or a substitute that was OK with me.

Maybe the distinction is defensiveness the WS uses as an excuse for shutting down, instead of as a reason to open up.

We can do difficult things even when we are scared.

It's funny, juxtaposed with W's fear I'd leave, that I was afraid for close to 4 years that she would stop doing her work; I really didn't want to face the choice between staying with a partner wou wouldn't domesticate her demons and leaving. I guess I still have some of that left, because she has work left to do.

After the A, IIRC, my W said a number of times that she did not understand why I stayed after the A. She meant, though, she didn't understand why I wanted to be with her at all.

Sad. Very sad.

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:10 PM, August 10th (Thursday)]