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I cheated for a year on my wife. The problem is after nine months she still doesn’t believe me on anything I say about the affair. The latest thing is she asked me if I knew I was wanting to have sex the first time I went to ap house. I told her it was complicated I purposely shut out any thoughts of possible sex and concentrated on other things like the radio and other thoughts. I was not aware something might happen sexually even when I got to the ap house and she said let’s go to the ap s bedroom and cuddle. My wife is upset because I won’t admit to what my honest intentions we’re.

Honestly I in the back of my mind I knew something but as I tried to explain to my wife I purposely in the affair shut out any pre thoughts. I think this was because I knew if I allowed any real thinking I would be overcome with guilt .

I can say, as a WW, you have to answer the questions honestly. I know the truth hurts and you want to protect her and yourself from any more pain, but it's what helps in the end. If you lie to her now, after the original betrayl, it makes everything worse.

She needs you to be 100% open and honest, and give her the answers she needs now, if you're hoping to reconcile at all. Just take a deep breath and speak the truth.

[This message edited by bewuzzled at 11:35 PM, August 13th (Thursday)]

Gently, it sounds to me like you are lying to yourself. I did that. I tried to believe that I could rewrite history to make my decisions and actions less reprehensible. It was like a warped version of the old philosophical question, "If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, does it make a sound?" If my thoughts were only in my head, and I managed to forget them, did they even exist?

It simply isn't credible that a woman offered to take you up to her bedroom and you didn't see where that was headed. You might have managed a state of compartmentalization where you tuned out the consequences of your actions, but your body didn't drive over there and walk up the stairs without the cooperation of your brain.

I won’t admit to what my honest intentions

The word "honest" doesn't get to be anywhere near your intentions.

I don't think you're lying to your wife. I think you're lying to yourself..

Are you in IC? if not, find someone good and walk through that desert because you're not a safe partner to anyone.

As far as leaving. You need to let go of your delusion that you can save your marriage. You left your marriage the second you decided that it's ok to be with someone else. Why do you think your wife should stay?

I told her it was complicated

It's not really. The affair part of an affair is the least complicated aspect of the entire thing. Your wife is upset because you are a liar and a cheat. You fucked someone else. I'm sorry, there's no nice way to put it.

*****

Again.

Go find a good therapist. You need it.

Throw yourself into changing your shitty behaviour and patterns.

Your wife needs to heal. You can't help her.

If she decides that reconciliation is a gift she wants to give. Then accept it and understand that the amount of pain you caused her is going to take a lot of time and effort to heal. Find your empathy and kindness.

Edited for stop sign

[This message edited by siracha at 11:31 AM, August 14th (Friday)]

Defcon,

I remember I had my head up my ass for a couple of weeks between the time I ended my A and D-Day. I actually was trying to figure out how to spin it to my BW to minimize. Well D-Day came and my AP wnet all nuts on my BW and made up all kinds of shit. So I threw myself at my BW's feet and admitted to everything I did. I let go of the outcome and it was the best thing I ever did.

It is one thing to spit out all the facts, quite another to start to own what I did though. That took some effort.

You need to put in some effort.

Telling your BW you were a wide eyed innocent that was seduced by the feminine wiles of your AP won't cut it. I bet you probably showered before going over. Made sure you were manscaped and had a condom at the ready.

Defcon,

Think about what you are saying here, and the circumstances you were in during that moment (the drive to her place).

* You were going to see a woman who wasn't your wife

* You hid the fact that you were going to see this woman from your wife and everyone else

* You took steps in order to make the time and circumstances required for this to happen

* You made lies/excuses about where you were and what you were doing and why

* You decided that it was worth the time, cost and effort it took to lie and hide this relationship, and it was worth it to keep it up for a year

* You must have had some communications with this woman before this meeting, and the two of you had gotten to know each other well enough that you both agreed to plan a secret meeting together. Alone. In her house.

* Did you bring protection? Be honest.

* Was flirting going on? Be honest.

Sorry bud, but I don't see how anyone could believe that you went over there expecting to play Tiddlywinks with this woman. Maybe you didn't expect sex first thing, but be honest with yourself. What you did want to happen? Were you hoping for a kiss? Did you want to get closer to her? Let's be clear in that you weren't going over there in order to improve your marriage.

One thing I found (I am a WS as well) is that I often focused on verbiage and minutia in order to avoid the truth. For example:

Wife: You went there to have sex with her all day long!

Husband: That's not true! We only had sex once.

Again, you hid, lied, planned, and made efforts to go see a woman, in private, in her home, alone, without telling your wife, and you are expecting her, and us, to believe that you didn't even consider what the possible desired outcomes would be? Sorry. No. That's not the truth. That's protecting yourself from the truth.

I'm not denying that there may have been some compartmentalization going on. As you said, guilt is often covered up by avoidance. "If I don't actually plan it, then it isn't real". Sort of like how a person on a diet might eat a bowl of ice cream, but it doesn't "count" because no one saw them eat it. It's just a mental game. The point is, you know it counts.

I purposely in the affair shut out any pre thoughts. I think this was because I knew if I allowed any real thinking I would be overcome with guilt .

Read the portions I emphasized and tell me you weren’t actively doing something.

You are going to have to own this at some point. Even if you “didn’t mean” to take all the steps you listed, you still demonstrate a lack of regard for someone who trusted you to a tragic degree. You violated that trust, so trying to twist words and emotions now will not help.

Simply put, you’re hiding from the truth. And your wife lacks the energy to keep walking around trying to clean up your mess- I’d say the 6-9 month mark is a pretty common window of time for BPs to wake up and realize they’re STILL being fucked over by the partner who betrayed them. I did worse to my BW, with the same result- Closing the door to R since the insults and degradation continued.

Bottom line is we want you to be better, and rationalizing to us here has shown us that you need to get a lot more honest with everyone, including yourself, for that to happen.

you don't get a pass because you refused to think.

You understood. That is apparent. You're just trying to weasel out of it on a technicality. LOL. I almost admire the tenacity.

Dude. Be honest.

Is there a way for the stop sign to be removed. I’m open to hearing from betrayed spouses.

Also I will respond to your comments as soon as I can get the time.

DEFCON,

I would recommend you leave it up for this one.

This is a frequent and contentious discussion that is bound to elicit strong feelings, and given the tone I think would lead to more defense than would be useful.

Just a thought.

Thank you for all the responses. I am listening and am carefully examining my behavior and the reasons why I am deceiving myself . I appreciate the honesty and bluntness it’s good to hear from those that have been in my shoes

Defcon,

It's great that you are taking the comments and advice under advisement, but as the title of your post says "Wife wants to leave" you really need to start being honest with her and take ownership of what you did. You don't want to sit on the fence too long and have her give up waiting.

The problem is after nine months she still doesn’t believe me on anything I say about the affair

Out of curiosity did you trickle truth her? Is that why she is having a hard time believing you?

Go to the top of the Wayward Forum. There is one pinned post 'Things every WS needs to know"

Read the first post and print out a copy for your future reference. It may be useful.

Yes I did unfortunately trickle truth her. Actually I seem to be making all the mistakes like text book sigh, but I am determined to get this right.

[This message edited by Defcon9898 at 11:16 AM, August 19th (Wednesday)]

Defcon,

Everything I see and read is that TT is a hard one to deal with moving forward.

Best I can advise is to do what I and many other waywards have done - let go of the outcome and lay it all out there. Write out a timeline with all details. Don't hold back. At this point holding something back is as bad as a lie.

You have maybe one shot at this.For your sake and your BW's sake, if you are determined to get it right then you need to put your faith in your BW and be honest. It will hurt her a lot less than more lies.

Look it is one thing to spill all the facts out. You can do that now. It will be another to understand why you did what you did. That will take time and effort.

You can do this.

...determined to get this right.

Commendable but needs to be adequately framed. Your understanding of getting it right needs to focus on your individual success. Only if you are truly tired of being the person you are can you truly change.

That change needs to be self-motivated. Thinking about “doing things right” will only get you to an uncomfortable point of having met the requirements you all had discussed up until now. The only effective way forward is for your honest, second-nature, instinctive, actions to meet your BW’s criteria for a safe and supporting partner.

And here’s the real kicker : You likely were deceptive about A LOT even prior the A- Which means that there are existential threats to the M even if you make it through a reasonable degree of this trauma.

But that’s the point. A consistent experience of honest intention and action may help your BW accept requests for R. But even if you have irrevocably destroyed this your improvement potentially helps your BW understand and free herself from your expectations, which likely weigh heavily on her now.

So bottom line, getting right means becoming a better man with the full knowledge that the result may still be losing what was potentially the most meaningful relationship you had in your life.

Wow thank you for that post! I’m reading and re reading it to make sure I fully get it all. Again thank you!

JBWD walks the walk on this, Defcon. His wife decided that R wasn't possible for her, and he's still here doing the work to be a better man and co-parent.

I'm glad you're listening.