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Things needed to feel safe enough for R

Whatslove posted 8/3/2020 20:17 PM

I've been working on a list of things I need to feel safe enough to consider R. I'm supposed to be having the conversation tomorrow with him. I'd love feedback and hearing what were yours.

1. Weekly IC
2. Sobriety with the involvement of a program
3. Couples therapy when we're ready
4. Full transparency of the cheating timeline and answering questions. Willingness to take a polygraph if I feel he is not providing the whole story.
5. Full transparency going forward (GPS, passwords, financials, and deleting social media)

If he agrees to those,
6. Exclusivity while we're working on things
7. No timeline on my healing and no sex until I'm ready.

GTeamReboot posted 8/3/2020 20:27 PM

Those are all good. One thing you might add is asking him to read some resources you choose. IC is great, keep it on the list (weekly may be a bit much, or at least not that often for very long). However... finding a perfect-fit IC can be hard (maybe he has already?) and some of the resources here are tried and tested! For example I copied the pinned post in the Wayward side into a Word doc for mine. Also the book “How to help your spouse heal from your affair” (or something like that) by Linda MacDonald is good, short read, inexpensive or maybe even free. I also have had my FWH watch videos that resonate with me from the channel Affair Recovery. They cover every topic and angle in bite sized pieces! Lol!

Best of luck!

Goldie78 posted 8/3/2020 20:59 PM

I would add to your #6 no contact.

secondtime posted 8/3/2020 23:33 PM

I would ask for an occasional session with your SO's IC and your SO.

I would also ask for a reflection after activity with regards to his sobriety. (support group, exercises, reflection of step work, telling you what he shared out during his meeting)

Really, though, I would focus on yourself. Get strong enough that you can listen to your gut.

Because, unfortunately, there's ways to circumvent everything on your list...nothing is 100% fool proof.

Your SO can be involved in a sobriety program and go to weekly IC, but that doesn't mean he's doing the work. They only way you are going to know if your partner is safe is if they talk about what's going on in their head , and then you decide whether or not you can trust it or if it makes sense.

Whatslove posted 8/3/2020 23:51 PM

Secondtime: priority is definitely on myself. I've been in IC since Dday and have grown a lot. I'm prepared for him to say no to these requests and move on with my life if necessary.

Whatslove posted 8/3/2020 23:53 PM

Gteam: he already is reading the book, and various other things I send his way

Whatslove posted 8/3/2020 23:56 PM

Goldie: good point. Because this wasn't an "affair", the individual hasn't been a focal point but she is a past flame and religiously follows him on social media so no contact makes sense

BlackRaven posted 8/4/2020 08:35 AM

Sobriety with the involvement of a program

I'm working on the assumption that your WP is in recovery of some type. I don't share my experience to dissuade you, but my WH did a 90 day inpatient program before he had his first affair. Over the next 15 years - he had 4 affairs, (DD was last month) but he never went back to drinking/drugs.

He did years of AA meetings, both before and after going into treatment. He also saw multiple IC and we saw many MC. He just wasn't honest with them.

Addicts lie, and some are very good at it. That doesn't mean they aren't good people, but they are so full of shame that they hide huge parts of their personality.

I only recently joined an Al-Anon group and I wish I had earlier. He's not like the qualifiers described but most people in the group. He holds an important job, he's a great father, very supportive of me, no abuse - but - I do see the emotional anorexia in him, and I didn't understand it before. I thought it was just depression. Now I see that it was a symptom of his addiction, and that's a red flag I wish I'd seen 15 years earlier.

So if the list were mine, I'd include the things you have, but I'd also add in your expectations for what your relationship should look like, including how much emotional intimacy you expect.

And I'd also suggest you routinely read posts from Al Anon members so that you know what flags to look for.

religiously follows him on social media

I find it disturbing that she hasn't been blocked already. You have on your list deleting social media, but I would add things like blocking her on Linkedin and his phone.

Notmine posted 8/4/2020 09:09 AM

Things I would add.

1. Weekly IC with qualified professional - CSAT consistently and for the long term
2. Sobriety with the involvement of a program, including weekly meetings and work with a sponsor.
3. Couples therapy when we're ready
4. Full transparency of the cheating timeline and answering questions. Willingness to take a polygraph if I feel he is not providing the whole story.
5. Full transparency going forward (GPS, passwords, financials, and deleting social media). Immediate blocking of AP social media accounts.
6. Reading relevant literature that is suggested my me, sponsor and counselor.
7. Rigorous honesty...no lying, no deflecting, no dishonesty by omission...no matter what,

BlackRaven posted 8/4/2020 10:15 AM

What about drug testing if requested?

One of the concerns with addicts is that they transfer their behavior. From booze to drugs, drugs to gambling, gambling to sex, for example.

Also, what will you do if he 'slips.' Not sex per se, but what is you learn he had a beer at friend's house? Is that a line in the sand for you? Perhaps that should be spelled out in the contract.

BlackRaven posted 8/4/2020 10:15 AM

deleting duplicate

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 10:16 AM, August 4th (Tuesday)]

DevastatedDee posted 8/4/2020 10:23 AM

Also, what will you do if he 'slips.' Not sex per se, but what is you learn he had a beer at friend's house? Is that a line in the sand for you? Perhaps that should be spelled out in the contract.

And you have to mean it. No empty threats. A slip and he is out. Addicts only respond to consequences. Words are just air-sounds that you make for your own entertainment. Let one boundary be crossed and the whole ship has sunk.

Whatslove posted 8/4/2020 11:48 AM

Blackraven: I'm not sure how I would respond if he slips with sobriety. I know I'm more understanding with that then any lying or cheating. He knows those are line in the sand, I walk.

BlackRaven posted 8/4/2020 16:06 PM

Just want to add that I know how hard it is. Hang in there.

The1stWife posted 8/7/2020 09:25 AM

I would demand a post nup also.

Bigger posted 8/7/2020 10:52 AM

It’s hard to get a grasp on a certain situation if there are so many small threads with one-post issues…

I have this theory – based on my years on this site and my experience in dealing with addicts – that there is NO WAY an addict can trully commit to a relationship while using. Be it drugs or alcohol. While using the drug is always the main controller. That’s why we have parents forget to pick up their kids because they went to the bar, or drive with the kids in the vehicle while intoxicated. NOTHING matters more than the buzz.

With that in mind I would prioritize my list in a certain way:
1. Sobriety with the involvement of a program
2. IC as required, maybe even a part of the program (I’m a big Hard-Core 12 step AA advocate)
3. NO relationships with the other sex – I’m not clear on your posts if it was ONS or one OW, but he needs to focus on his sobriety and getting his head straight – not on getting head.

If he can stick to the above for 4 weeks and confirm his sobriety with a test… then I would consider opening up for the other issues.

DevastatedDee posted 8/7/2020 11:33 AM

Here's an unfortunate thing. People don't leave addicts and regret it later. People leave addicts to save themselves and find peace in their lives. When you leave, you no longer have to worry about him drinking, doing drugs, losing a job, gambling money, overspending, cheating...whatever his drug of choice is, you no longer own any worry over it. I am not saying you should leave. I just want you to understand the sacrifice that YOU are making by not leaving. When you stay, your life is affected by the choices of an addict. The black cloud of relapse is hanging over you for the rest of your lives.

So if you are making the ENORMOUS sacrifice of staying with an addict of any kind, you need to demand what is required for you to feel as safe as you can. Feel no guilt over it even if he whines about an item on the list. You are the one sacrificing and taking the huge risk here. He owes you anything you need to feel okay about it.

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