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Just found out....canít sleep, canít eat, canít breath.

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HellFire posted 8/1/2020 11:52 AM

I'm confused. We have men,and women, who show up all the time in this forum, who were in an open relationship..they had rules, their spouse violated those rules..and they are told they are a BS, are treated as such, and that their spouse is a wayward.

How is this any different? She agreed that her husband could get his physical needs met elsewhere, set boundaries, and her husband broke those boundaries. But this woman is basically being told she asked for it, and to get over it.

Why is she being treated differently than them?

Oh, and guys? Women are not robots. When you ignore your wife allday, then expect them to fuck you, many of us don't work that way. Most of us, in fact.

Kaliber posted 8/1/2020 11:54 AM

I guess so. Because what I'm seeing is a guy who's focus was getting his nut rather than treating his WIFE with loving kindness. I see a guy who has turned a deaf ear on his partner's pleas for an emotionally closer relationship. And I see a guy who said "hell yeah" when it was obvious he should have said "let's work on this". His vow of fidelity didn't keep his pants on, and I don't see how annoying his wife until he gets a hall pass mitigates that.

What you are saying is that he has a bad character, low integrity and morals and I agree, but he is not a WH or a cheater, That's different.

HeartbrokenRN posted 8/1/2020 12:04 PM

ď How is this any different? She agreed that her husband could get his physical needs met elsewhere, set boundaries, and her husband broke those boundaries. But this woman is basically being told she asked for it, and to get over it.Ē

Thank you for these words Hellfire. I was literally sitting here in tears thinking the same thing. I know I made mistakes in my marriage, I own that completely. But I did NOT want him to sleep with anyone else, I wanted him to want ME!!! Body AND soul. To care about my life my feelings, to spend time and talk to me and be there for me emotionally. But when you go all day being put second or ignored and then get Clawed at at night in the bedroom itís felt so awful to me. When I gave him his ďhall passĒ I was just so tired of everything being about sex and thought if he got a quick blowjob somewhere he would stop pushing the sex and start to figure out what was really the cause of our marital breakdown. So I did what I did, right or wrong, but tried so very hard to make the rules ones we both could live with. In my eyes he broke the rules (and broke them so badly!) that I just could never forgive him. On my eyes he was unfaithful and made decisions that ultimately cost him his wife and family.

[This message edited by HeartbrokenRN at 12:06 PM, August 1st (Saturday)]

Kaliber posted 8/1/2020 13:16 PM

HeartbrokenRN:
Listen Kaliber, I came on here and shared my story because I felt broken and sad and needed some guidance and support. I wasnít looking for anyone to tell me that what I did or how I acted was right or wrong. I felt hurt and betrayed and i allowed to have those feelings. In my mind he broke his promise to me and cheated, and he got caught, and he was so careless his son pretty much found out. You seem very intent on trying to tell me how I should or should not feel and itís utterly ridiculous. This is a support site, not a debate site. I did NOT ask anyoneís opinion on whether what he did was infidelity or not (even though in my eyes it was). I was struggling and looking for people to help me get through this horrible time. I donít know why are being so cruel and rude in your responses. If you donít like how I feel about the situation feel free to scroll on past to other posts, clearly you arenít here for support.

HeartbrokenRN,sorry if I cam across rude, it was never my intent, but your story made me confused.

For example, you said:

HeartbrokenRN:
Over the next couple of months the subject came up time and time again. He asked me if i was sure I wanted him to have sex outside the marriage and each time I coldly said yes, go do whatever you want, I donít care anymore.

So he didn't jump the gun, he waited, for months and made sure you are ok with it, that's not someone who actually took the chance to do it, he waited for months, he wanted you, and you pushed him away by saying YES every time he asked you.

And then you wrote:

HeartbrokenRN:
What he did with the woman he was with was what I had wanted from him all along. He never wanted a deep emotional connection with me. He always told me itís just how heís ďwiredĒ. But itís obvious that heís capable of it, I just wasnít good enough for him to put that effort into me

What he did was sex. What do you mean he is capable of? capable of what?
having a dinner date? That doesn't mean he had emotional affair to the women he is trying to have sex with.
Dinner dates with NSA sex are normal unless you're hiring an escort service!

Then your last reply you wrote:

HeartbrokenRN:
But I did NOT want him to sleep with anyone else, I wanted him to want ME!!!

You see why I'm confused here? And understand why my replies are different from others?

So it wasn't about him screwing up the logistics, that was just a side effect that opened the wound!

You actually didn't wanted him to act on your ďhall passĒ even after him waiting for months and asking you repeatedly if it's ok with you, and you still said YES every time!

Why did you say YES when you clearly didn't want this to happen?!

You didn't tell him what you told us:

HeartbrokenRN:
did NOT want him to sleep with anyone else, I wanted him to want ME!!! Body AND soul. To care about my life my feelings, to spend time and talk to me and be there for me emotionally.

Every time he asked you, that should have been you reply, it was the perfect time to seek MC, and try to repair the marriage not giving him a ďhall passĒ!

I can give you a reply like many others did, give you pat on the back, tell you he is a WH, a cheater ..etc. spin the story to fit your needs and make you feel better.

But I can't, I have to be honest with, and give you the best advice that I think for your situation, it was a bad communication from the start, you allowed him to do something that you clearly didn't want him to do, and then expected him to be a mind reader and do the right thing that you wanted him to do.

Again I do apologise if I came across as rude, that's not my intent, I'm just trying to understand your messy situation and be honest with you and show it as it really is.

He made some wrong choices when choosing the hotel/dinner spots, screwed up the boundaries you set for him, but by large he is not a WH or a Cheater.

Now you have two choices:
1- Repair the marriage seeing that he wants to work on it.
2- Divorce and mourn you marriage and the years together, go suppurate ways and move on with your lives and co-parent your kids.

[This message edited by Kaliber at 1:38 PM, August 1st (Saturday)]

ChamomileTea posted 8/1/2020 13:30 PM

Maybe you've just never been in this situation, Kalimber, but I don't think you get it. When a husband is withholding the emotional component of the relationship but still wants sex, he's treating his wife like a hole. So, our OP challenges him on that, and yes, I do agree that the challenge wasn't straightforward enough, but what she's REALLY looking for is confirmation that she is MORE THAN A HOLE to him. Was it a mistake to put it out there like that?.. she admits it was. But still, the love of her life, the father of her children just confirmed for her that getting his nut is more important than reassuring his wife that SHE is loved. His thought process is WAYWARD. His priority isn't a healthy marital relationship.

fareast posted 8/1/2020 13:39 PM

HeartbrokenRN:

Your feelings are valid and as justified as any other BS. Take the advice you can use and leave the rest. Your WH is just a common cheater and WH. For years he ignored your needs, did not communicate and wanted to use you as a sex doll. When you refused, the poor muffin, his needs werenít being met. I get why you responded the way you did. I think you might make a different decision if you had a second chance, like demanding he get counseling or kicking his ass out. But he still had the choice not to cheat. He could have actually tried to work with you to actually solve the problem. This situation is not confusing or unique.

[This message edited by fareast at 1:40 PM, August 1st (Saturday)]

HeHadADoubleLife posted 8/1/2020 14:09 PM

When a husband is withholding the emotional component of the relationship but still wants sex, he's treating his wife like a hole.
EXACTLY!!!!

Dinner dates with NSA sex are normal unless you're hiring an escort service!
You say this as if it's something she should have known. True, she gave him the pass, but with clearly laid out boundaries.

Then it becomes his responsibility to confirm what is/is not "normal" in seeking that kind of arrangement. And if those "norms" conflicted with her clearly set boundaries surrounding this issue, then he doesn't get to break those boundaries in order to get the NSA sex.

After you've determined that the outcome you want (NSA sex) isn't accomplishable without breaking the boundaries you agreed to, you don't just get to break them and say "But, but, but I really WANTED it." This is an entitlement issue, just like with most waywards.

Also I feel it must be noted, as someone who discovered her husband was stepping outside of the relationship for its entirety, I can tell you that it is very much possible for people to have NSA sex without their partner/spouse finding out.

I only discovered these activities AFTER walking in on his full blown EA/PA. Which means for 7 years, he was able to keep that shit under wraps. That's with a perfectly normal 9-5 job, two kids, showing up to every single track meet, choir recital etc. He was home EVERY night, without fail. It can be done. Heartbroken's H just sucked at it. His sucking at it doesn't negate the fact that he broke the rules.

HeartbrokenRN posted 8/1/2020 14:19 PM

Thank you thank you thank you HeHadADoubLife!!! You hit the nail on the head. Everything you said encapsulates how I feel. Yes I think I was naive and didnít understand all the gross details of what would be involved by letting my husband have sex outside the marriage. In all honesty I hoped he would have just refused and told me that he was committed to fixing US when I offered it. But he didnít and he clearly didnít make any attempt to cover his tracks at all, which hurts just as much. Ironically all I wanted was to be loved and feel special and spend the rest of my life with a partner who would stand by me until the end, not someone who ran to another woman the second it was offered.....

tushnurse posted 8/3/2020 07:30 AM

Ironically all I wanted was to be loved and feel special and spend the rest of my life with a partner who would stand by me until the end, not someone who ran to another woman the second it was offered.....

But he did, and he prior to that he was basically withdrawn to the point where you did not feel safe, or comfortable enough to be vulnerable w/ him. It is a shitty position to be in. I hope you are taking what you need and leaving the rest, as there seems to be some not so understanding in your situation.

NOW.... You have had a few days to kind of take the info here and start digesting it.

What do you want? Other that the unrealistic thing of making it never have happened in the first place.

If you could have anything in the world, what do you want?
A clean D? And a new start?
An H that is really doing the work to fix his broken issues, self absorbed self, and heal his M?

If you do want to try R what are the requirements to make that happen? Have you figured that out yet?
If not start trying to sort it out.

If you are done, and want to walk away then what does that look like for you, again, start sorting it out.

As far as the sleeping, breathing, and eating part, has that improved? Have you talked to your Dr? Have you scheduled STD testing? That needs to happen if you have been intimate at all w/ your H. He also needs to be tested.

Start figuring out what you want and need. Start your to do list to make those things happen.

((((And Strength)))

HeartbrokenRN posted 8/3/2020 08:48 AM

Thank you Tushnurse for your words, I really appreciate it. Right now Iíve settled into this place where Iím more functional than I was that first week but still not really able to eat or sleep much. My mind is still haunted by images of them and Iím trying to calm those images and not let them control me....but itís hard. Today was moving day. It was profoundly emotional to see them load up all of his things and drive away. It felt so FINAL, so sad. 24 years together (16 married) and its all gone....broken down by years of anger and resentment and pain culminating in infidelity.
Where do i go from here? I honestly donít know. At this point he wants to reconcile, heís promising me the world but I donít believe him. I donít believe he can change in any real way that would make our relationship any different. You canít change someone at 42 years of age, and his flaws and downfalls are deeply engrained in who he is, as are mine. Itís easy to want to try again at some point down the road but I canít go through this pain of separating again, I just canít do it. And then thereís the actual knowledge that he had sex with another woman. Can I REALLY ever get past that???? Like Iíve said he was my first and only and I was his first and only.....until I lost that claim two weeks ago 😢. That was something so sacred to me and why the betrayal is so much worse. And yes, I know I offered him that ďoutĒ and its partially my fault but he still broke that sacred bond with such ease and carelessness that itís hard to forgive.
I think for now I just need space. I canít make any decisions about R or D until Iím no longer in a place of such pain and hurt, and thatís the only place I have to work from at this point. Until then I am taking it one day at a time and one breath at a time, thatís all I can do.

nekonamida posted 8/3/2020 09:56 AM

HRN, just want to chime in as another person who agrees he cheated. I am part of a culture where open marriages are common and guess what? There are still cheaters. Opening a marriage is not carte blanche to do whatever you want with whomever you want and breaking the rules is infidelity. The boundaries you laid out for him are not uncommon and most people are able to find others down for NSA sex without wining and dinning. There are entire websites and apps dedicated to NSA sex he could have gone on.

If he did follow your boundaries or put work in to wining and dining you like he did the OW, maybe the outcome would have been different. Perhaps this could have been fixable IF your WH responded differently at each turn. But I believe you're right that this highlights a selfish character flaw in himself. You know him better than we do and if you truly believe he will not change, you are making the right call by separating. Take as much time as you need to make a decision but do see a lawyer just to cover your bases. You can see someone and get advice without moving forward on D.

BluerThanBlue posted 8/3/2020 11:19 AM

Did your husband break the rules of the open relationship? Technically, yes, but I think that's mostly due to poor communication and poorly-defined boundaries. He probably didn't ask for clarity on your boundaries since you explicitly told him you didn't want to hear about his extramarital sex.

I think you were extremely naive about what's involved in getting women to engage in casual sex, probably because you're very inexperienced and never dated or slept around as adult because you were with your husband and he was only with you. That's not your fault.

The only way your husband could've circumvented the "courtship" required to get a woman into bed would be to have sex with prostitutes only. Very, very few women are going to have a sex with a man with whom they don't feel safe and comfortable or lack chemistry. The only way he can build a rapport or gage chemistry with women is by taking them out on a date, or at the very LEAST, engaging in conversations.

Would you have felt more comfortable if your husband was paying for prostitutes? That's an honest question you need to ask yourself because it's going to come up in your arguments with your husband, if it hasn't already.

If the answer is, no, you don't want him sleeping with anyone else, then your focus as a couple is building back your emotional connection and rebuilding intimacy in your marriage. This will require work on both your parts.

But if he's not willing to invest in emotionally fulfilling you and consequently you won't invest in sexually fulfilling him, then you're fundamentally incompatible and should get divorced.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 11:26 AM, August 3rd (Monday)]

HeartbrokenRN posted 8/3/2020 11:45 AM

BluerThanBlue:
Let me address some things from your message. Iíll include my responses in bold.

Did your husband break the rules of the open relationship? Yes. There were very clear limitations set, and almost all were broken. There could be no dating or emotional connections. If finding a woman involved this emotional connection and ďdatingĒ, it was HIS duty to tell me. Because I wouldnít have ever agreed to it. And he TOOK HER TO A LOCAL RESTAURANT DOWN THE ROAD WHERE WE GO ALL THE TIME AND WHERE OUR FRIENDS GO ALL THE TIME. This was ALSO not allowed. I said there had to be complete anonymity. He also didnít cover it up or hide it, and that was yet another one of my rules he didnít abide by. But that's because you were extremely naive about what's involved in getting women to engage in casual sex, probably because you're very inexperienced and didn't experience dating as an adult. That's not your fault.

The only way your husband could've circumvented the "courtship" required to get a woman into bed would be to have sex with prostitutes only. Very, very few women are going to have a sex with a man with whom they don't feel safe and comfortable or lack chemistry. The only way he can build a rapport or gage chemistry with women is by taking them out on a date, or at the very LEAST, engaging in conversations.

Would you have felt more comfortable if your husband was paying for prostitutes? That's an honest question you need to ask yourself because it's going to come up in your arguments with your husband, if it hasn't already.

If the answer is, no, you don't want him sleeping with anyone else, then your focus as a couple is building back your emotional connection and rebuilding intimacy in your marriage. This will require work on both your parts.

But if he's not willing to invest in emotionally fulfilling you and consequently you won't invest in sexually fulfilling him, then you're fundamentally incompatible and should get divorced.

tushnurse posted 8/3/2020 11:46 AM

So he is out of the house.

I get that you are totally overwhelmed and lost right now, and are most likely hearing a lot of noise from family, friends, and kids, all well meaning. But really this distance, can be really helpful for you, and you can start to get some distance from this to help you figure out what you need.

But you also need to embrace some self care right now. You need to find yourself a new IC that focuses on trauma and loss. You need to see your Dr, and talk to them fankly about what is going on, that you are struggling to sleep. Take some meds, get some solid sleep. You need it. Without decent sleep and some solid nutrition your brain won't be able to keep emotions in check, or allow you to make solid decisions.

So start making your To Do list and set goals for yourself each day.

You got this, and we got you. Hang in there honey. It will get better.

Blindsided2425 posted 8/3/2020 14:02 PM

I know itís cliche, but it just takes time, it will and does get better.

HeartbrokenRN posted 8/3/2020 17:03 PM

Thank you Blindsided2425.....I know itís true, and Iím taking it day by day until the pain starts to ease.

Buster123 posted 8/3/2020 18:03 PM

Yes. There were very clear limitations set, and almost all were broken. There could be no dating or emotional connections. If finding a woman involved this emotional connection and ďdatingĒ, it was HIS duty to tell me. Because I wouldnít have ever agreed to it. And he TOOK HER TO A LOCAL RESTAURANT DOWN THE ROAD WHERE WE GO ALL THE TIME AND WHERE OUR FRIENDS GO ALL THE TIME. This was ALSO not allowed. I said there had to be complete anonymity. He also didnít cover it up or hide it, and that was yet another one of my rules he didnít abide by.

I think one of the main issues here is that after you for months repeatedly told him to go have sex elsewhere, he didn't say NO to your hall pass (which deep down is what you really wanted), he accepted it and even if he had followed all the rules you set for him and/or had he just paid for sex (no dating involved) you would probably still feel betrayed, yes he didn't follow the specific rules of having sex elsewhere, but again by your own admission that's really not what you wanted and he could have followed your rules to the T and the end result would have been the same or similar.

I see this more of a lack of communication and marital problems more than infidelity itself (even though I agree he may be wayward and should have been a lot more engaged in trying to repair the M), I honestly think good communication is key, as well as the effort putting the necessary effort needed to help repair the relationship, which the "hall pass" has now complicated even more and I'm sure will keep resurfacing and will be at the center of future arguments between you two for a long time, get a good counselor (you may even need individual IC before MC), I'm not sure if you're religious, some churches may also have support groups. If after trying everything you still feel this M is not working for you, you may decide to end it, not all Ms can be saved and of course you don't need his permission to file for D. Good luck.

HeartbrokenRN posted 8/3/2020 18:17 PM

I do see and agree with some but not all of your points Buster123, but if the rules had been followed I NEVER WOULD HAVE KNOWN and my heart would have been shielded and protected from this pain. And then maybe we could have worked on our marriage and continued with MC and ďfoundĒ each other again. But now weíll never know because I DID find out and that knowledge is killing me and preventing me from wanting to try and work things out. I realize now that all I wanted was for him to NOT take my offer, even though I repeatedly offered it out of pain and hurt and to stop the pressure of him always wanting sex but not giving me anything in return. Itís just a complete mess and Iím trying now to make the right decision for myself and my kids.

Buster123 posted 8/3/2020 18:42 PM

but if the rules had been followed I NEVER WOULD HAVE KNOWN and my heart would have been shielded and protected from this pain. And then maybe we could have worked on our marriage and continued with MC and ďfoundĒ each other again.

You should be honest with yourself and acknowledge that you could have found out another way, even if he had followed the rules it would have most likely surface at some point. If you read here long enough you see the many different ways people found out about what was happening, he's not perfect and at some point he would probably just get used to it and let his guard down, a text message from sex partner/prostitute, a mutual friend could have seen him coming out of a motel with OW, you accidentally find a pack of condoms with some missing, the list of ways is pretty long, again by your own admission how he did it was NEVER the main problem, you're hurt because he did it (and that's not what you wanted) the main problem was lack of communication and lack of effort from both of you, focus on the main issue, find a good counselor and go to IC first, then MC.

tushnurse posted 8/4/2020 09:19 AM

my heart would have been shielded and protected from this pain. And then maybe we could have worked on our marriage and continued with MC and ďfoundĒ each other again. But now weíll never know because I DID find out and that knowledge is killing me and preventing me from wanting to try and work things out.

Nope never would have happened, because he had Zero motivation to treat you the way you wanted to be treated, in fact he had an incentive not to. I am not judging in any way, but once permission was given he was done, and rebuilding your M in a meaningful way was not going to happen. As the old saying goes "Ignorance is bliss".... but in reality you would have always wondered, or you would have rebuilt your M under false pretenses, or loose soil, and that would have eventually led to things falling apart.

I have been around here a long time, and can tell you with 100% certainty that those that are successful at R are so because they 150% truthful, to the point that it is painful at times. There are no more lies, no more secrets. That is an absolute must to rebuilding.

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