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redwing6 posted 7/10/2020 19:48 PM

I saw something that I thought was pertinent...but now I can't find it to quote.

Your WW knows the full name of her AP. He's probably a neighbor or someone fairly prominent in your area. That's why she's working so hard to protect him and HIS marriage. She's willing to sacrifice HER marriage to save his...so give her what she wants.

In your next MC session, ask this "what is his name? Why are you willing to save his marriage and sacrifice your own? Tell me or we're done". If she refuses, serve her right there. A MC is a reliable witness to service...that would literally put her on the spot that she can't get out of.

Just a thought.

OrdinaryDude posted 7/10/2020 21:37 PM

If he didn’t get exactly what he wanted today, there is absolutely no need for another session.

The1stWife posted 7/11/2020 06:32 AM

I agree OrdinaryDude.

Justsomeguy posted 7/11/2020 11:07 AM

BSH. I've been following your story and I must admit, it is a tough one to read. I am going to generalize here, but i am willing to bet that every veteran here already knows how this ends. We all see the writing on the wall. It's okay that you don't right now. Miracles do happen, but they are very rare, and unless your WW has her Damascus moment, you guys are done. It will take time for you to realize this. Your responses to posters show me that you appreciate their advice, but are determined to go your own way. That's good. It's your life and no one else's. But in doing this, you own all of your mistakes.

I tried R with a WW who was clearly not up to the task. Mind you, mine was an angel compared to yours. I was the only one doing the work. She just wanted to wait it out and let things get better. Meanwhile, I was dying inside more and more. In a rare moment of honesty, she commented that she saw how hard I was trying to make things work, but deep down, knew it was always a deal breaker for me. I knew that too, but I felt I had to try everything before I pulled the ejection lever, knowing it could not be unpulled.

What was interesting, is that those who knew me and the situation comment that they could see that I was so done with my cheating wife, why didn't I just get it over with? I told them that, for the sake of my kids, I wanted to be able to look them in the eye and say that I tried everything.

I regret that decision. I should have filed for D the next day and put my WW'S skanky ass at the end of the driveway with the rest of the trash. I will never get that 7 months back. Along with everything she took from me, she also took extra time. I would be much further ahead in my healing if I had been decisive and put myself first. You are prolonging your pain, for what? Is there some internal code that you feel you must adhere to? How does this serve you in the end? And how will you see this 10 years from now?


The1stWife posted 7/11/2020 12:22 PM

JustSomeGuy

While your situation didn’t end up the way you hoped, you don’t have any regrets about D. Because those 7 months proved to you it wasn’t going to work.

But what if you end it immediately— you could always second guess yourself and wonder if it could have been resolved.

My therapist told me as I was facing impending D that you want to know you did your best and gave it 100% so you can D with no regrets. That was what he termed a “successful D” believe it or not.

The realization takes longer for some people. Here at SI we have the wisdom of experience behind us. I know sometimes it takes longer for some to “wake up” and see what we see.

In this case I agree - no name of AP then the marriage is over. But that’s how I would handle it. Others need more time and possibly for a good reason.

EllieKMAS posted 7/11/2020 12:53 PM

JSG I'm with you. I delayed the inevitable by 9 months, trying to make it work worth a wh that had NO intention of ever doing anything to help me heal. If I have one single regret, other than dealing with infidelity at all, it is that I didn't immediately be done with it on dday1.

Of course I remember how utterly disorienting those initial days were. And the thought of jumping off the burning plane scared me almost as much as staying on it. But infinitely worse was trying to fix and pretend like shit was normal when it wasn't and wouldn't ever be again. Took me finding more evidence 9 months later of continuing cheating to finally say "fuck this shit" and strap on my parachute and leap out into the unknown. Best choice I ever made.

BSH you aren't there yet. And it's okay that you're not, but imho JSG is exactly right. Your ww has shown zero care for you in all this. Not for being a cheater in the first place or in any moment since. Being cheated on is horrid. Trying to fix it alone is 100x worse.

Hope you're doing okay today.

BSHusbandWI posted 7/12/2020 21:38 PM

Hi Everyone.

Yesterday, I went out of town to hang out with some friends. It's an hour drive one way, so I had time to think a lot. Technically that's foreshadowing... Here's some detail about the MC:

The counseling session on Friday gave me this:
* the realization that she'll never give his last name up and she's firmly sticking to her story that she doesn't know his last name OR she actually doesn't know it (which has it own set of equally disturbing issues)

* The understanding that, WW feels she has told me "everything" but to me, it's one or two crumbs. That's a huge chasm to cross for both of us.

* WW was willing to come to the meeting and figuratively get smashed in the head repeatedly by a sledge hammer. Despite how I feel, that is huge and it does matter.

* WW is regretful, but not remorseful. All her crying and anger and feeling sad etc is coupled with statements about her - what she's going to loose, what the marriage was like (as an excuse), that maybe we would all just be better off without her (woe is me). As opposed to statements about me and the boys. Don't get me wrong, she has said sorry a lot and shown some remorse, but those words haven't been paired with any healing actions (up until yesterday afternoon and this morning... More in just a bit)

* Having the meeting opened both of us up to having some discussions on our own (instead of only in the presence of a therapist). Because it fucking KILLS ME that we had to pay our hard earned cash to just communicate with one another (and I told her that). - I think I said I can't believe that we have to pay someone just to get you to give me information that you should be giving me in the first place.

* A very clear understanding that she is so incredibly clueless about how fucking damaged I am by the betrayal.

What I DIDN'T get out the counseling session:

* The full name of the POS

* A feeling that the MC was helpful and healing. It did get us talking and I'm thankful for that, but I left the meeting feeling worse not better.

* An understanding that she actually wants to do the work that it takes to R. I also realized that during and after the MC, she really doesn't understand the work that needs to be done on her part and because of that she doesn't understand how hard it will be for the both of us.

So, the MC... here's the general gist. The MC listened to my issues (that I discussed with him prior to the session) with not committing right away to work on the marriage (as I think Bigger put it, you don't need 3 months to decide that). That's what he started with... Us committing to work on the marriage and not D and to together work to create a stable environment for the boys. Fine. He made us sign a document "committing us to that before we dove in"

She then gave loose timeline as affair started in"February" the story stayed the same as the second version that WW gave me, but so high level and not any real detail and certainty nothing new. No "me and POS (please can't she start calling him that- I know that's not going to happen) met this many times in person.

We did spend some time talking about "the circumstances and her feelings that predisposed her to begin the affair" (which the MC added that are no excuse). During that I was asked how I felt. I said ANGRY... MC: "In my experience anger is more of an umbrella emotion, can you tell WW what other emotions you were feeling when you found out?" I broke down crying saying I'm ashamed, and disgusted. That was hard. I don't know if WW thought I was ashamed of her, but that's not it - I'm ashamed as a man that I wasn't enough of a man to keep my wife. I know you'll all say that's not it, but I can't help feeling that way and my self worth is completely shattered. So much self-doubt. I realized sometime that during this discussion, we were actively talking about the relationship And I began to redirect the conversation back to the affair.

We got on his "Identity" - if she was supposed to NC, and I don't know his full name, how the fuck am I supposed to verify that she is NC?!?! Neither MC or WW had an answer for that. I stayed very angry and of course insisted that she knew that POSs name. The entire session I wouldn't use his supposed name- When I referred to him I said piece of shit or fucking piece of shit. I was given a name, but that, WW says it's NOW actually his middle name - WTF?!?! Which one is it? you told me you only knew his first name but now it's his middle name? How am i supposed to trust anything you say!?!!? She just called him (let's say James for this convo) and that he said his name is CJ - but "James"... So middle name. Unbelievable.

Since there were no answers from anyone how I can verify NC (and also making meaningless my commitment to not contact him once WW shares his identity - because no identity was actually shared) We ended up moving on. BULLSHIT!!!

The MC starts to discuss the agreement we signed at the beginning... "that we both agreed to ..." I let him finish his sentence and said "I'm not fucking doing anything until I know this piece of shits full name." I stood up and walked away to my car (we were meeting outside in a park due to covid). halfway to my car I yelled at the counselor and said the "contract we agreed to before this said I would have the identity of POS, but I didn't get shit and your contract is shit" or something like that. My intent was to basically tell him he fucked up and isn't good at his job. It was mean to lash out at him, but I just fucking paid him good money that I don't have being unemployed and all- so fuck him.

I peel out of the parking lot and that's the story of my first MC. :-| All in all BULLSHIT- Like many of you said prior to me going. Despite the fact that many of you said to go. And as the story played out, what I obviously decided to do. It somehow made sense. If I had to do it all over again, I would go again because of what happened the next day.

Friday night passed by and onto Saturday morning.

Without being too transparent about personal details, there was a "family event" that under normal circumstances would have included all four of us (Me, WW, and the boys). I elected to make it me and the boys while WW slept. I told them I didn't want to be all fake like everything is okay, despite that wW told the boys that she wanted to be woke up (she works 3rd shift). The 16yo wanted her there, the older one was okay without her. We had the event and moved on. When WW woke up she wasn't happy that I made that choice - I explained my reasoning. WW wanted to do that event and didn't like that I did it without her. I showed indifference.

I then attended the aforementioned "hanging out with friends" and came home around midnight. Before I left for out of town to the hang, WW wakes up and we spend some time talking. During that talk, I get to hear a good amount of wW-focused talk about how much she has given the family for 20+ years and it's not right to have it all swept away and all that she is now is this person that did this terrible thing. I listen and even spend some time talking about how we are shitty communicators with one another and how that could be better (yes, I know during that conversation I was talking about our relationship and how it worked - or didn't) I even said, I shouldn't be talking about our relationship and refocused us on the affair. I said that I was doing all the work. I've read three infidelity books, watched a ton of videos and read a lot online trying to make sense of all of this and she's had ton of time on her hands working part-time and hasn't put that much work into figuring things out. I said I'm not the one that should be doing the bulk of the work here, you are. I referred her to "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair". I've read it and the counselor suggested it. I mentioned that her behaviors are the exact opposite from what the book recommends and if she really wants to help me heal from what she did (and if she actually loves me and is sorry about what she did like she said during the MC she needs to to do the work). She said she would read it. WARNING - this is going to sound crazy... I told her that she has no idea how not knowing affects me. That I have actually been going about my business around town and seen cars bigger SUVs/trucks with tinted windows and wondered if that was him in that vehicle. I'm that fucked up from this. Because THAT is just fucking crazy!!!! Nonetheless, that's where my head is at. (btw I just assumed it was a larger vehicle because they were active in the "tinted window car"- turns out during this conversation she gave me the make and model). I told her, I can't still can't fathom that she doesn't know this guys last name. She STILL sticks to her story that she asked him his last name at some point and he said, "It's better this way that you don't know it" (and I guess her and her pussy were okay with that.)

I said something along the lines of, she betrayed me and if you really don't know the name of this POS, and you really want to have a chance for R, then you have no idea how much it would mean to me if you would betray POS with me. I asked her if soon, she would text him with me present to get him to meet up and then she and I would drive to meet him. Wave at him in his tinted window SUV and get his plate number. Then with his plate number we could both get his identity. I told her - and I really mean it - That I want to look this POS up on facebook so i can identify him in a crowd and be on guard. Always wondering his identity is really fucking me up and I'm not sure if I will ever get over that. She said she would do that. She goes to take a nap before her next 3rd shift and I head out to the hang out an hours drive away. Fun time. Good to get my mind off all that is going on.

That brings us to Sunday morning.

WW comes home in the morning. We talk a bit about her night and a bit about mine at the hang. She gets ready for bed after 10 hours working all night as she's about to get in bed, I tell her I want you to give me the login credentials to the cell account and hand her a paper and pen. Her initial reaction was, "Why?" I just repeated myself. She hands over the login creds. She goes to sleep, I check the call and text logs. No contact. BEFORE I GET HEAR FROM ALL OF YOU... I'm pretty tech savvy and i realize that she could have just went to snapchat, whatsapp, tinder or any dating app to communicate with POS. But she did give me a way to monitor at least one channel (side note-- she did say she wanted access to my phone and all accounts for me too - I rebutted that I didn't cheat... But sure. I have nothing to hide.

Another family event with my mother, sister and nephew plus boys at our house early Sunday afternoon. WW was worried about being awkward and wasn't sure if she would attend. The event was planned without her - very unusual for an event @ our house. When family arrived, WW was sleeping due to 3rd shift work the night before. My Mom said she brought food for WW and asked if I should let WW know that. I agreed and woke WW to tell her "Mom" brought food for her too and she should come down if she wanted. Note that WW's take on this is that she has been part of the family for 25 years and she feels bad if she's all of a sudden left out of a family event and if she did decide to come down she didn't want any attitudes/issues. (it was communicated a bit differently from WW to me, but I don't see it the same way - I see it as MY family is unhappy about the betrayal of their son/brother/uncle and have acceptable, normal emotions that match their loved one's emotions). I told her that no one gets to choose some one else's emotions or reaction to the situation we are all in this and she needs to decide if she feels like coming down or not. She came. It was awkward at times, but no blow ups.

As i finish this, she just left for work. When she returns tomorrow and after she sleeps (so like Monday afternoon), I'm going to sit down with WW, ask her for about an hour of her time and then go through her phone with her by my side, unless she just wants me to do it by myself. I am also asking for icloud login creds. That way I can do location tracking as well. Any resistance will have me walking away without argument. That just means D and filing. It's her choice at this point.

Sooooo (FUCK, this is a lot of shit and I'm just drained), I'm wondering if I give her into Monday evening to finish reading the MacDonald book so she has a chance at understanding how to approach my healing. AND then do the iPhone thing. What are your opinions? I KNOW I'M PUSHING THE WORK ON HER AND THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR R... THAT SHE NEEDS TO BE THE ONE DOING ALL THE WORK. BUT IF READING THE BOOK AND AGREEING TO CONTINUING TO TALK KEEPS GOING THEN THAT IS GOOD, RIGHT? (I even told her yesterday that the detail she gave during the counseling session was nowhere near the kind of detail and information I actually need -and i gave her an example of what she told me - POS showed up at the bar, we exchanged numbers and then we texted a over a few weeks and agreed to meet up for drinks. - - - I said so he showed up at the bar - I want to know about the conversation, between POS, you and girlfriend. What was it like? How did it make you feel? How many drinks over how much time? How did exchanging numbers come up? And what were you thinking when you exchanged numbers? I said she needed to be able to tell me that level of detail. She nodded... We'll see if she is capable of that.

oh Shit!! I dunno, this is crazy!. On another note, the attorney and I have a agreed to a touch point on Monday. I'm going put that toward end of Monday/Tuesday morning to see how WW is responding to the book and to the open book verification of her activities.

If you have suggestions on what I should be doing when I get her iPhone in my hands, please let me know. I do have a plan, but don't want to miss anything.

I'm going to have a drink.

EllieKMAS posted 7/12/2020 21:51 PM

Oh dear.

BSH it sounds like you've had a very weird few days. I'm sorry.

Here's my take. And it's gonna be fairly short. She's giving you crumbs. She's making 'promises' that I doubt she will keep in order to hopefully get you to just be quiet about this. I know how much it is to want your reality back and even getting little things feels good. But that's just it... Little things aren't enough to rebuild from this.

An understanding that she actually wants to do the work that it takes to R.
Then imho she needs to give you his name. I call buuuulllllsssshhhhiiiit that she doesn't know it. I just... I feel like she wants to R(ugsweep), not R.

File. You can always stop the proceedings of she decides to start being honest. But without her willingness to drop all the bullshit and actually give you what you need? That's still lying and that's no way to start rebuilding trust.

ShutterHappy posted 7/12/2020 22:07 PM

You have the POS cell number... you can hire a PI.

You can also get your WW to do a Polygraph test.

TheMockingBird posted 7/12/2020 22:45 PM

Why bother talking about the affair or going to counseling together etc, when she's actively choosing to keep the AP's Identity a secret?

The affair wasn't a ONS, it was a month's long thing. At some point she would have found out about his name, even if that wasn't the case she would have his number, or a way to communicate with the guy, which is something else she's choosing to hide from you. Hell she probably even know's where he lives, which would be something else she'd be keeping from you.

In all honesty you should have stopped every attempt of reconciliation the moment she threw you off the phone plan, and when she started berating you to her sister and friends in the car. The amount of disrespect and cruelty this woman has shown towards you is mind-boggling, not sure if I'd be able to force myself to reconcile with someone like that. I'd honestly just do the 180 and proceed with the divorce, and limit contact to the best of my ability.

Either way I wish you luck, having to deal with her idiotic excuses would set anyone off, like how the hell wouldn't she know his full name, it's complete bull.

[This message edited by TheMockingBird at 10:45 PM, July 12th (Sunday)]

BSHusbandWI posted 7/12/2020 23:24 PM

not sure if I'd be able to force myself to reconcile with someone like that. I'd honestly just do the 180 and proceed with the divorce, and limit contact to the best of my ability.

I'm not sure if i can R either. But to move forward with her or anyone, I feel like I need more information about the A and the next day or two will tell me if that's really going to happen.

I'm not asking any more (meaning that it's not an option for her to not answer my questions). Tomorrow afternoon/evening is when the real questions and verification begin.

If that doesn't prove to be transparent and honest then it's time to move on.

Newlifeisgreat posted 7/12/2020 23:34 PM

Sorry for everything you are going through.

I think you are long past the time when you should file.

My money would be that she has contacted him and told him to not respond to any future requests to meet her because you will be there!

She doesn’t have a clue!!! She is only trying to protect her comfortable life. This is not a woman any man should be married to!!!

Stop torturing yourself and your kids, when you file, you will feel a huge weight fall off your shoulders!

Talk to. Lawyer ASAP and get the process started!

Having her served might just jolt her enough to remember his full name!

ChamomileTea posted 7/12/2020 23:35 PM

First off, I'm glad to hear you're okay. Your last message was really brief and it sounded like you had gone through something really stressful. And yeah... I'd call being ambushed by your MC really stressful. He KNEW without a shadow of doubt what you were looking for in terms of committing to R. You had discussed it with him repeatedly. To drop a "contract" in front of you and apply pressure toward R was unprofessional, IMHO.

In terms of doing what you need to do in order to get the identity of the POSOM, I think it's okay to engage in whatever tactics you think best, so long as you stay right side of the law. I'm not sure I could have progressed in my healing without knowing, so I can empathize with why it's so important to you. Proceed with caution.

I broke down crying saying I'm ashamed, and disgusted. That was hard. I don't know if WW thought I was ashamed of her, but that's not it - I'm ashamed as a man that I wasn't enough of a man to keep my wife. I know you'll all say that's not it, but I can't help feeling that way and my self worth is completely shattered. So much self-doubt.

I want you to understand something, and this time, I hope you'll take it to heart. Nothing you did (or didn't do) caused your WW to cheat on you. Cheating is always about the cheater, and it's always about a defect in character, that gap between stated core values and actual deeds. This was never about YOU. It was never about your marriage. Marriages don't cheat. People do. It's always been about your WW.

Do you think I deserved what I got from my WH? Do you think he didn't have other choices, right up to and including divorce before he decided to toss his integrity in the shitter? Do you think Bigger deserved it? Stevesn? EllieKMAS? Who among us do you think DESERVED to be betrayed by the person they loved most?...................... Exactly. NO ONE deserves that kind of betrayal, and you're NOT so special that you did. There are always other choices.

So, let's take your WW at her word for a moment... let's say she really doesn't know POSOM's last name. How is that not about HER? She didn't even care enough to find out the POS's name before throwing away her integrity, her marriage, her family dynamic, the respect of her children, her reputation with extended family and friends, her financial future, and... her husband. Note that while you are very important, you're just one item on a very long list of things she's cast aside.
This wasn't about you. None of it was about you. So, please just STOP carrying that around.

I'm wondering if I give her into Monday evening to finish reading the MacDonald book so she has a chance at understanding how to approach my healing. AND then do the iPhone thing. What are your opinions?

Again, I think you need to do what you need to do in order to get that name. I don't think you're going to have any peace of mind until you do. So, if that means playing nice in the sandbox, then go for it. That said, a word of caution in case she tries any pussy-bombing... In some states, a return to the marital bed will be viewed as tacit forgiveness, thus taking adultery as grounds off the table. That's also true for continued cohabitation after x-amount of time past the discovery of the affair. So, do be cautious. A return to sexual relations can be very therapeutic in R, but you're NOT in R yet, not even if your WW thinks you are.

I know there's some scuttlebutt about how much leading we should do in R, but cheaters aren't perfect and they don't become perfect overnight. While it's true that you can't do the work for them, it's completely within your purview to draw the roadmap home, so to speak. You've got a great head on your shoulders. Trust yourself to know what's best. Listen to your logic and not your aching heart. You'll do fine.

Strength as you process.

BSHusbandWI posted 7/12/2020 23:52 PM

In some states, a return to the marital bed will be viewed as tacit forgiveness

ChamomileTea: I nearly threw up thinking about doing that with her. And she's not going there either. ALSO, my state = No fault and so also no time factor.

Let's say she really doesn't know POSOM's last name. How is that not about HER? She didn't even care enough to find out the POS's name before throwing away her integrity, her marriage, her family dynamic, the respect of her children, her reputation with extended family and friends, her financial future, and... her husband. Note that while you are very important, you're just one item on a very long list of things she's cast aside.

I know. I so know this. Let's agree she knows his name for a moment... She has stuck to this story for over a month now and at least 4-6 interrogations from me and also the MC. I don't think there is anything I can say to her to get her to tell the truth that she knows his name. Polygraph threat? Nah, she'd just be done. Why take a breathalyzer when you know you've had too much to drink? Just stay the night in jail.

If she is telling the truth that she doesn't know the POSs name, maybe she'd be willing to run the license plate ruse. If we run it and she warned him ahead of time I would know. Because, there's no fucking way a guy who had been pounding some NSA pussy would say no to get some of that again. So if he just didn't take the bait or not show up, there was definitely collusion between WW and POS.

ChamomileTea posted 7/13/2020 00:20 AM

She has stuck to this story for over a month now and at least 4-6 interrogations from me and also the MC. I don't think there is anything I can say to her to get her to tell the truth that she knows his name. Polygraph threat? Nah, she'd just be done. Why take a breathalyzer when you know you've had too much to drink? Just stay the night in jail.

Agreed. The only other thing that might "jog her memory" is getting served. She's still trying to talk about your relationship. Divorce isn't REAL for her yet.

In terms of your plan, the fly in the ointment is, as you said, that she tips him off. But if she doesn't, and if she truly doesn't know who this guy is, you might actually be onto something. It could still be effed up by him borrowing a car or running on illegal plates though. I'd say that in order to be sure there's no confrontation that you'd do well to drive in something he won't recognize and have the meet set up in a location where you can see him, but he can't see you. The last thing you need is some whacko following you home. Which begs the question of how much does he know about you and your home?

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 12:21 AM, July 13th (Monday)]

BSHusbandWI posted 7/13/2020 00:26 AM

Which begs the question of how much does he know about you and your home?

This came up in MC... Neither POS or WW knows where the other lives (according to WW).

Whether it's true or not, I can't be sure.

ChamomileTea posted 7/13/2020 00:40 AM

I hope that's true. I was appalled to find out that every skank my WH had picked up on Craigslist knew everything about us. One actually showed up at my work pretending to be a customer.

OrdinaryDude posted 7/13/2020 04:23 AM

If you’re not willing to play the polygraph card, she’s got you and she knows it...you will likely never get the info you want.

However. if you have his phone number, and the model of his car, then it should be easy for a PI to find him.

I recommend a PI at least to get you further along, but please don’t dismiss the usefulness of a polygraph because if she does indeed balk at it, then you know not to waste more time and energy with her.

Someone that is genuine about R will agree to a poly very quickly.

Bigger posted 7/13/2020 05:25 AM

A couple of points:

My advice is based on a couple of things: I think that IF POSSIBLE you would want to reconcile and I also think that 5-10 years from now you want to be able to look your sons in the eyes and tell them you did what you could and thought right.
I am not weighing in on if you should R or if you can R. I personally think a marriage can survive anything as long as it’s done from a base of TRUTH. Right now, it’s not clear if you have that or not. I also think that despite it being possible to save a marriage then not all marriages should be saved. It’s totally your call, but I think you want to reach your decision on the right basis.

Remember there is no rush per se. You are allowed to take breaks from these issues AS LONG as there is momentum towards resolutions. Sort of like if you are pushing a big truck up a hill you can take breaks as long as you put chocks behind the tires when you stop. Take time out for a massage, sleep, a jog… whatever helps you rest.

I actually think the MC is doing a great job.
Only it’s a bit like having a cardiologist offer advice on a broken leg. Your wife is still not there on the correct premises. There are people that can reconcile without knowing the truth. In fact, I really don’t think we ever get the complete truth simply because a) we don’t ask everything and the WS doesn’t share everything and b) the truth is often in the eyes of the beholder.

But IMHO not knowing the OM name is such a big thing and so unlikely to BE true. There is a humongous difference between not remembering if she wore the red dress and not remembering your long-term affair OM name.
Just this simple example: If you order room-service at a hotel (remember – your wife had 2 keys…) you usually say “Hi. This is Mr. Bigger in room 309…”.

I guess even the MC suggested not knowing his name was dubious. We could reword the question from “what is OM name?” to “are you protecting OM?”. If she says no to the later question, then she should be open to helping find his name.

Did she offer any assistance or show any willingness to discover the name of the OM?
Like whom paid the hotels? How did they contact each other BEFORE the burner phone? How did they meet initially? A willingness there would support (slightly) her statement of not knowing his name.

The poly? I think it’s an excellent idea.
The breathalyzer test is a good comparison. In some country’s drivers do have the right to refuse breathalyzer tests, bloodwork and so on, but then a judge is allowed to assume they are under the influence and sentence them accordingly. The basis being you have been offered several ways to prove your sobriety. So, your wife refusing a poly… well… that is the driver reeking of booze refusing a breathalyzer but still getting his license revoked.


A poly serves the purpose of the breathalyzer. She can refuse it, but that would possibly tell you more than the poly itself. You could safely assume she’s protecting her affair, and therefore any reconciliation isn’t really possible.
I’m guessing she will put up all the classical excuses for not taking a poly, but even if we go by the worst reliability rates (50/50) then it beats the rate you have now (1/99). Personally, I think a poly administered by a good operator is +9 out of 10. It should be simple because it’s a plain yes and no question: Do you know the last name of OM.

Finally: Next steps. I suggest you keep your course. Without the OM name you can’t reconcile and therefore the next decisions are more about how to terminate the marriage. Once again – no big rush but keep momentum.
I also strongly suggest you are vocal to stakeholders as to why you need to stick on the path of divorce to get out of infidelity:
“She says she doesn’t know the OM name. I can’t believe that and without total honesty there really isn’t any way I can get over this. For all I know YOU might be the OM (or your husband if it’s a woman) or my dentist or the next-door neighbor or my son’s coach. Breaking this deadlock might make me think reconciliation is possible, but without his name there is no way I can remain married.”

People sometimes say exposing makes R harder. In your case (and most) exposing actually makes reconciliation possible. If we acknowledge that reconciliation without the truth is not possible then harder is actually easier than not possible.

Edited to add:
The breathalyzer example is actually very apt.
Back in my days an officer on my shift did a test on a driver he was certain was dead-drunk. One of those old glass-tube tests – not the more modern digital types. The test indicated heavy intoxication but when the drivers wallet was searched (too drunk to be coherent) a diabetes-card was found. The officer had a soda in his car and poured some down the “drunks” throat, “sobering” him near-instantly.
Keep in mind that your wife CAN pass the poly in two ways: false reading/wrong result (IMHO less than a 5% chance) or she truly doesn’t know his name.

Have the following three questions:
Do you know OM surname
Other than Jack and Paul do you have any other name for OM
Are you willing to help your husband find OM full name

[This message edited by Bigger at 5:39 AM, July 13th (Monday)]

Stevesn posted 7/13/2020 06:46 AM

BSH

One thing i haven’t seen in your comments is, what does she want? Why is she still here?

- she wouldn’t be intimate with you physically the last few years, only with the AP
- she sent lots of texts to him and the fun friend talking about how handsome he was and much worse, she won’t say or do the same about you
- she won’t give up everything about him or be transparent in her communication
- she won’t see him as a bad person even for what he helped her do to you
- she’s been mean and nasty to you after you proving you know what she has been doing

My question isn’t why are you still here, it is why is she still here? What is she getting from this relationship? Why is she sticking around?

If it’s simply for financial stability or to not be proven a bad person, that’s not much to build on.

I’m not saying you are doing the wrong things. I’m just wondering if she’s shown even one little sign that she cares about you and about what she has done to you?

Have you seen even a sliver of that in your discussions?

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