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EllieKMAS posted 7/9/2020 15:50 PM

Hmm... I've never seen a contract thing like that. Just my 0.02, but the two major issues I have are 1. I wouldn't promise not to contact posom. Cus sure as shit, if he's married and you contact his wife, your ww will blow up about that. (I mean, she would anyways, but you can bet you'll get an earful about how 'you promised' blah blah blah bullshit bullshit bullshit). and 2. No ww contacting him for 3 months? NO. If she wants R, no contact EVER again. Not in three months, not in 6, not a year down the road. Never again.

Glad you're doing better today though!!

Bor9455 posted 7/9/2020 16:14 PM

BS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:48 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

HalfTime2017 posted 7/9/2020 16:21 PM

That MC can blow. That is the reason people here don't recommend going. They are going to try to fix the marriage when its not the marriage that needs fixing first, its the infidelity.

You need the other mans info, and to find out if he has a spouse.

I wouldn't go back. You WW can deal with it. If she wants to fix this with you, she will give you his info. No fucken doubt she has it and is lying to you. Girls just don't go around fucking some dude for 6 months and not get his last name. She was def fantasizing about leaving with him, and somehow she doesn't know shit about him now? Don't believe that for one second.

That contract is worthless. I wouldn't sign it. Make up your own and your wife can either jump onboard or leave. There is not semi foot in foot out in fixing the marriage she broke. either she is in it to help you heal and fix the marriage or she's out.

Newlifeisgreat posted 7/9/2020 16:28 PM

Ellie nailed it!!!!!!!!

She promises not to contact him for 3 months? What BS!!! That is NOT her trying to reconcile. That is till having her cake!!! And this therapist went along with it?

Hopefully your response was “No” then hanging up the phone

This is the biggest farce I’ve ever seen

BSHusbandWI posted 7/9/2020 16:34 PM

Just for clarity...

the MC calls it a "contract", but there is no signing anything. It's just typed up in a stupid MS Word doc. It's really an agreement on what we'll discuss and how that conversation will go. Nothing more.

I did post as Ellie recommended to waywards to see if they think first name only is likely.

And none of this conversation is considered R. That's why there's not more requirements by me.

The thing not in there is if she agrees not to communicate with POS for 3 months, (that's supposed to give us space to figure out what we want to do) how is she proving that she is living up to that? I'm not asking for that up front - I'll do it in the moment if I actually go.

Freeme posted 7/9/2020 16:36 PM

Since you feel you need answers I'm going to guess that you will end up going. Yes 7 pages of graphic text - and his last name didn't come up. It sounds like she is still lying.

I'd call her out on it by getting her to give you access to the phone records. Maybe ask her for it after she gives you the timeline. That way you can verify what she's telling you and get his name/number for yourself. If she's not willing to give you that she's not serious about doing her part to save the marriage. She's still putting OM before you.

Bigger posted 7/9/2020 16:39 PM

Short answer: No.
Long answer: HELL NO!!!!

There are several issues I have with this contract, but first of all don’t forget it has no “legal” value. It’s not as if you can’t promise not to contact OM and then do it right away. But then even if you know who OM is I would never suggest contacting HIM. I would contact his wife (clearly married by the level of protection she’s giving him) or/and his HR department if it’s work related. So yes – you probably CAN promise not to contact HIM.

The obvious caveat is not knowing his name. Not knowing his surname is a lie. For you to start a contract with your WW already giving a lie is a definite no-no and an indication of what to expect.

Then there is the no-contact. So she could basically tell you it’s Jack Dean who lives in Alaska and you have no way whatsoever to confirm it’s him. All the time it might be her boss or her key-client or whatever. All the time you are focusing on poor Jack who hardly knows your wife.

Then the no contact with OM for 3 months…
It’s like taking a six-pack of beer to an AA meeting, just in case sobriety doesn’t work for you.
No contact for LIFE because you should already have told her that ongoing contact quickly erodes any will you might have to reconcile.

You have come this far. So far the concessions have been from her. Stick to your guns. I totally believe that is the ONLY way you can save this marriage or save yourself.

BSHusbandWI posted 7/9/2020 16:41 PM

Lets take a quick journey into la la land for a moment...

Lets pretend that she for 6 months fucked this guy on a first name basis only. Let's call that fact.

They met in his car. He has a car. That car is registered with the DMV and therefore has a name and an address attached to it.

I'm wondering if she can agree to getting his license plate. She agrees to meet texts him like normal and I go with her. She points out his car and bam! We can BOTH get his name. or I can do all the legwork if she gives me her phone.

Okay back to reality... She'll never agree to that.

Bigger posted 7/9/2020 16:48 PM

Or… she could tell you who he is.
She KNOWS.

I actually think this MC is good. He’s gotten WW to the negotiation table, at that table BSHWI can make his demands and possibly use the MC to make WW see why.

I’m a history buff. At the end of WW2 Germany tried to negotiate an armistice with the Western powers. Imagine how tempting that could have been – saved tens of thousands of lives. But the Allies demanded a total unconditional surrender and soldiered on. They knew that despite the cost they would eventually prevail. That’s the position you are in right now.

BSHusbandWI posted 7/9/2020 16:51 PM

So Bigger, you're saying I should go and then demand the truth about who he is?

nekonamida posted 7/9/2020 16:53 PM

It sounds like bull shit. It's maybe possible if she met him on a dating site or Tinder for NSA sex and has never bothered looking him up. If she met him in person, like a coworker or through someone else she knows, it's very unlikely. Also, if she was on something like Tinder, there is no way he's the only OM out there. He's just the longest lasting OM of many that you know about.

Bigger posted 7/9/2020 17:03 PM

Yes.
The “contract” is OK except for the issues mentioned.
You want OM full name. She knows. There is no way you can convince me that she meets someone for this long on a first-name basis.
I wouldn’t bother with the three month nc issue. Just make it clear to her and MC that any contact from now to eternity seriously erodes your will to reconcile. For all you care she can phone him right there and then, but that would also automatically mean that the only question left is what form of divorce.

HouseOfPlane posted 7/9/2020 17:15 PM

This reminds of a negotiation story...

Party 1: you scratch my back, I scratch yours?
Party 2: you scratch my back or I shove a bat up your ass (figuratively speaking)

The phrase is “unconditional surrender” where she may hope for “the mercy of the court”.

The thing is, it is actually merciful to demand unconditional no-strings surrender, because ultimately that is what it takes for her to possibly save the marriage...surrender. Give up on her efforts to lie and minimize, and just stand in the storm. Anything that gives her a glimmer of hope it is not required, just delays or prevents what needs doing.

BSHusbandWI posted 7/9/2020 17:30 PM

I honestly wonder if the MC has seen BSs promise not to contact the AP and then they do it anyway.

If that's true, I could see him saying to WW, just a first name. Nothing good can come of BSH knowing who your AP is. I'll take care of it.

Perhaps that's me freaking out, but I do wonder.

Buffer posted 7/9/2020 17:43 PM

Brother lots of good advice. My two cents worth, MC has got WW to talking. That has got to be good.
The three months NC, well that is just putting off the inevitable that she will be back in contact.
She met her F buddy through her toxic friend. Bang! There is his surname. Toxic had initially set up the sex sessions, Going to a motel? Had to be next to him for a sign in. Or had to go and ask for a room number for Mr incognito, bang a name.
I can’t see a educated woman like your WW, texting, meeting and banging a man, using some basic restraints first name basis? Really?? I believe this person is known to you, and is semi prominent in your community.

As Westy said, gym, Weights, exercise or Martial Arts are a very good way to channel your anger. Turning heavy weights into light weights.
Keep talking to the children. You are doing very well.
One day at a time.
Buffer

Stevesn posted 7/9/2020 17:45 PM

Can I step back for one sec?

What does she want? Does she say? I’m unsure why she is even agreeing to MC or any of this. Does she say she wants to be married to you? Does she want her cake and eat it too? Only three months? And then what, they restart their bondage routines?

I don’t understand what you get from all this. A WW that is So vigorously protecting her AP is not someone that I would want to be married to.

I’d want to hear that my wife is desparate to make this right, is completely sorry for what she has done and wants to do EVERYTHING, not the minimum to rebuild.

My response would be “no thanks, it’s apparent this guy is very important to you, I suggest you go explore what you think you have with him, I wish you well. We’ll start the Divorce process next week. “

I’m sorry but my opinion of her has not changed.

This0is0Fine posted 7/9/2020 17:48 PM

1. When the affair began and how long it lasted. 2. The circumstances and her feelings that predisposed her to begin the affair.
3. The frequency and types of intimacy she had with POS
4. The identity of POS to husband.

Transparency.


5. I promise not to contact or communicate with POS.
6. WW promise not to communicate with POS for three months.

Not good enough. NC forever.


7. Be civil and work together to see where we go from here (R, separate or D)
8. Make a communication plan about talking to the kids together - so they know what's going on.

This is good.

Now, all that said, this is about as useful as a poopy flavored lollipop because there is no consequence to breaking the contract, and she has already shown a willingness to throw promises into the garbage when it gives her the good tingles.

M1965 posted 7/9/2020 17:49 PM

BSH,

Don't freak out.

If you need the full name, you need the full name.

No full name, and you walk.

A first name is not an identity, so it is a contradiction in terms to use 'identity' if the intention is to tell you 'Dave' and nothing else.

If you look at that 'contract' your wife is giving next to nothing, and asking for all kinds of promises from you.

She wants a guarantee you will not contact the POS. Why should you give that?

Does that cover the wife of the POS?

She promises not to contact the POS for three months? Wow, what is that supposed to count for? And how can you monitor that?

You have to be a good be and play nice.

Make an agreed communication plan for talking to the kids, which undoubtedly means airbrushing any wrongdoing by your WW out of the narrative and essentially telling the kids a lie to save the WW's face.

This is full of attempts to control your behaviour and independence of action, while giving you next to nothing. Why else do you think your WW agreed to it?

However, the bottom line is that it is not legally binding, so if you ever did break any of its terms, what are the consequences?

Focus on getting what you need, which is the name of the POS.

Seriously, if they try to fob you off with just a first name, I think you should walk out and tell them that when they are prepared to stop playing games and provide the surname, they can schedule another meeting.

[This message edited by M1965 at 5:51 PM, July 9th (Thursday)]

ChamomileTea posted 7/9/2020 17:52 PM

1. When the affair began and how long it lasted. 2. The circumstances and her feelings that predisposed her to begin the affair.
3. The frequency and types of intimacy she had with POS
4. The identity of POS to husband.
5. I promise not to contact or communicate with POS.
6. WW promise not to communicate with POS for three months.
7. Be civil and work together to see where we go from here (R, separate or D)
8. Make a communication plan about talking to the kids together - so they know what's going on.

Oh, hell no. To begin with, NO ONE should have to go to this much trouble to get some BASIC honesty from their cheater. That is, if the cheater has any interest in reconciling at all.

Your WW wants you to think that she threw her entire family dynamic away for a guy who's last name she didn't even know. My WH was a Craigslist cheater, out advertising and answering ads for NSA sex, and even HE knew first and last names. But if she honestly doesn't know this guy's name, that's a whole NEW reason to divorce her... that she so casually threw her marriage away for a guy she knows nothing about.

She does know though. Note #5 where she hopes you'll agree not to contact him. Not to mention #6 where she's only promising to not contact him for 3 months. This whole contract stinks of HER agenda. See #2, where you promise to sit politely while she blame-shifts her dirt onto you in the thinly veiled guise of talking about her "feelings".

Here's an idea... if she doesn't know the guy's name, ask her to call him right in front of you and ASK HIM. She'd never go for it, but at least you get the pleasure of watching her wriggle and squirm.

Honestly, BSH. I'd just divorce her out of hand at this point. And even if at some point in the divorce proceedings she's willing to talk, I'd never take her back with out an entire battery of polygraph testing.

I'm so sorry, man. You deserve better.

ETA: I agree with others who've posted that #& and #8 are control mechanisms, designed to keep you doing what she wants and allowing her to control the narrative. Better to skip the whole thing and just file. It's an insult that she expects you to "work together" after SHE lobbed a hand-grenade into your family dynamic.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 6:00 PM, July 9th (Thursday)]

ShutterHappy posted 7/9/2020 18:00 PM

Why do you think she doesn’t want to give you his full name?

She knows his name. So why?

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