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BSHusbandWI posted 7/8/2020 08:52 AM

ďAny relationships have risk. Risk of not working, risk of infidelity. For infidelity, this is how one handles it: be calm, be firm, donít accept blame, and put your foot down on your requirements for R if thatís what you want. Always value yourself. Donít let one failed relationship taint your view of future relationship.Ē

There's a version of that discussion that I need to work out for the boys.

When I was at IC yesterday, I told him what I had already told all of you - That I don't feel like me anymore and that I miss the old me. But I'm not sure that I want him to show back up because he is the reason I'm in this place right now (too trusting etc) and If it means going through this again then I don't want him back... I then acknowledged that it's all about risk.

So thanks for the reminder to discuss all of this with the boys with a larger canvas about relationships and how we grow as individuals and what makes a good SO (on both sides).

BSHusbandWI posted 7/8/2020 09:09 AM

One other thing...

I've had numerous suggestions on reading materials. Can remember them all and don't have the energy to review all my pages for them.

The IC suggested that get the book After the Affair by Janis Abrahms Spring. Anyone read that? Willing to give me a book review before I buy it?

EllieKMAS posted 7/8/2020 09:12 AM

That I don't feel like me anymore and that I miss the old me. But I'm not sure that I want him to show back up because he is the reason I'm in this place right now (too trusting etc) and If it means going through this again then I don't want him back.
Just gonna add in a quick edit - NO old you is NOT the reason you are here right now. Your ww and her shitty decisions is why you're here right now.

I get this feeling - I had it too. But the thing I reminded myself about continually is that all growth is painful. Good growth is especially painful. As I have moved down the road, I have found a lot of the old me - the good parts that I liked back when. TBH the old-me parts that I had shelved for xwh's comfort. The me that existed on dday1 is dead and gone, but what's being built in that spot is a way better version. Smarter, kinder, tougher, less inclined to put up with bullshit, less inclined to accept crumbs. Better in so many ways.

It's okay that you feel blown apart right now. I think that's pretty normal. But have faith that you WILL find those pieces again too. You really will. And in so rebuilding, you also get to add bricks, and throw out bricks that were crumbly. You get to redesign and take stock. As shitty as the reason is for that, it can be such a personally beneficial journey too.

KingofNothing posted 7/8/2020 11:21 AM

How do you all do it? I am in the process of reading through Wallops journey (only page 12 of 50.. FUKKING 50 PAGES!!) and so much of this is so depressing. So many humans are SOOOO FUCKED UP!! How do you keep coming back here to read and post? It's incredibly depressing.

I know what you mean. I was already divorced when I found SI. Let's just say my reconciliation plan didn't go over well. It was an ugly situation, I felt like the walking wounded for years after. Just by chance, I was on Reddit and a similar themed SubReddit popped up.. I started reading. My thought process was.. Oh shit, this is triggering.. but I couldn't put it down. They were going through the exact. same. bullshit. I went through years ago. The same lies, the same contempt for each other. I don't know why I'm here sometimes, but I read threads like Wallops and others, and I think.. if there's even one thing I could say that would prevent someone ELSE from getting fucked over, I'll do it. It's very therapeutic in a very weird way. In a way, it's helping me. I'm far less triggered these days and even have come to terms of blessed indifference to my ex. I even saw her, briefly, at a recent Social Distant Fourth of July BBQ I was throwing and she really didn't bother me at all. That's the goal I strive for.. not hate, not revenge.. just inner peace. For me. Because I deserve it. So do you. Your story is bad, for sure, but it's not the worst I've ever seen, and I know you have a chance for happiness. It's a hard slog to get there, though.

Icewraithonyx posted 7/8/2020 12:23 PM

The IC suggested that get the book After the Affair by Janis Abrahms Spring. Anyone read that? Willing to give me a book review before I buy it?

I've read it / listened on audio book. I thought it was pretty good. I tried recommending it to my wife but no luck.

MY suggestion is "Living and Loving After Betrayal" by Steven Stosny. That's more about healing YOU and fixing the relationship is an afterthought near the end

Sadwife53 posted 7/8/2020 14:27 PM


Hi BSH
I donít post much because I usually donít feel like I have much helpful to add.

I just wanted to say that I think you were handling things well given the circumstances. Intimate betrayal causes a grave traumatic emotional injury. To feel like you are going crazy in response to the internal chaos is 100% expected and natural. The pain can be overwhelming, even for people who normally see themselves as exceptionally strong and stable. I too drank too much for some relief. Unfortunately thereís no way around it, just through it. I read the books but I found listening to therapy podcasts and YouTube videos most helpful while Iím walking, driving etc. I found Marnie Breecker who treats partners of sex addicts especially helpful. She says that the BS is traumatized twice, once by the betrayal itself and again by our own response to it- because we donít recognize who we become.
You also might want to check out and possibly print for your WS the first post in the wayward side forum- Things every WS needs to know. Your WSís response seems fairly typical. She has spent a long time twisting facts into knots in order to convince herself sheís in the right, blame shifting, justifying and minimizing. It takes time and often a lot of IC for them to face themselves and gain clarity. They didnít get where they are overnight, and usually donít snap back into reality overnight. Iím not saying you should sacrifice yourself to wait for her, just saying that it does often take time.
I wish you the best.

ChamomileTea posted 7/8/2020 14:32 PM

The IC suggested that get the book After the Affair by Janis Abrahms Spring. Anyone read that? Willing to give me a book review before I buy it?

It's not terrible, although there are some BS's who are really put off by how lenient she is with the WS. I would go with Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass instead. She does a better job showing the importance of boundaries and how to build them. She's not overtly hard on WS's, but not quite so forgiving as Springs. I didn't give it to my WH to read. I felt like he had made up enough excuses on his own.

BSHusbandWI posted 7/8/2020 14:50 PM

I'm just as confused as ever...

WW and I talked a tiny bit today in civil but distant tones.

She talked to MC. I guess he's sending over a "contract". Whatever the fuck that is. I assume it's a set of ground rules to set expectations and keep us focused. We'll see what that is.

She also has a separate meeting with a therapist through her work health plan (free)... Because "She obviously needs help and medication because she doesn't want to feel like this anymore".

Excuse me, feel like what? You mean you feel like you're a cheating whore who through her own selfish actions destroyed everything that was me and colored our kids idea of relationships for the rest of their lives?

I've been reading and I guess WW has feelings, but honestly, I just don't give a fuck about them right now. Wait... that's not true. I'm perfectly good with WW feeling at least as bad as me (as bad as it sounds, I'd be okay with her feeling all sorts of worse). Because she did this. We're here because of her. Me? Not perfect H, that's for sure. I know many of you have had the experience of finding out like me when I found the hotel key card and then found another. I don't know how many of you had the experience of reading the texts they sent back and forth. I don't think I can explain in words what that did to me. I'm not even going to try.

Also, she's working all the angles... IC with my guy to keep the door possibly open to R, but also with the other therapist so she can go along her merry way when she's had enough working on the relationship (or likely giving me info) and then just say - that's enough - I'm done. I don't know what she's thinking but from those actions, those thoughts seem likely.

Today, I woke up very depressed. Just sad. I really didn't want to do anything at all. I did work on getting a job. Had some food. But I also just sat around being sad. Just deeply sad, I'd say depressed, but that's too depressing (ha ha) to think that I'm depressed. I just felt, i dunno... I guess hopeless. I really didn't put a great deal of deep thinking into my situation while i sat there. I wasn't able to. I just sat there - a lot -- being sad.

The fucked up part is that when she said she "didn't want to feel like this" it sparked a fuck ton of anger. HOW FUCKING DARE SHE!?!? And now I'm jumping from anger to the same hopeless sadness.

I wish I had a job. Then I would be forced to be distracted.

Back to the MC session... I'm calling the MC to see what's up because we have to nail down a time for Friday. I'm hoping to get some actual answers. I have no idea how I suddenly became "worthy" of being told any answers. It's as if I'm being done a favor (and while I haven't been asked yet for anything in return - which is fucking rich... that I'm negotiating for information that I should have - I'm sure it's coming. It better not be a big ask because I'm not selling my soul for this information about the affair that I should have.

ugggh. sorry for going off. I have to stop typing.

aprilfool1985 posted 7/8/2020 14:52 PM

Anderson, The Journey from abandonment to healing

Burn, Unhealthy Helping

Patterson et al, Change Anything

Chodron, How to Meditate

BSHusbandWI posted 7/8/2020 14:58 PM

You also might want to check out and possibly print for your WS the first post in the wayward side forum- Things every WS needs to know. Your WSís response seems fairly typical.

Nope. Two reasons. i'm don't want her to find my posts and she needs to self serve. I'm done "helping her see how she damaged me" She has to be interested in helping pick me up from the rubble (but I have to do all the REAL work on me)

ChamomileTea: I bought that Not Just Friends book. Have it on my phone. Haven't started it yet.

Thanks, aprilfool1985.

[This message edited by BSHusbandWI at 3:00 PM, July 8th (Wednesday)]

Sadwife53 posted 7/8/2020 15:00 PM

Wss are pathologically selfish. They are often incapable of empathy. Amazingly sad but true. Like spoiled children. Of course they should know better, but donít.

[This message edited by Sadwife53 at 3:03 PM, July 8th (Wednesday)]

ChamomileTea posted 7/8/2020 15:00 PM

ugggh. sorry for going off. I have to stop typing.

Always better to post it here than to let it out where it does damage or to carry it around.

ChamomileTea posted 7/8/2020 15:05 PM

I bought that Not Just Friends book. Have it on my phone. Haven't started it yet.

If your MC is looking for a work book that you and you WW can do together, have him switch to Glass instead of Springs. If he hasn't read it himself, too bad. It's worth it for the instruction on boundaries, and if I can read it, he can.

I do think you're going to have to stick to your guns with this guy. Like any MC, he's looking to treat the marriage and to be "fair". But marriages don't cheat. People do. And nothing about intimate betrayal is fair.

EllieKMAS posted 7/8/2020 15:05 PM

(((BSH)))

Yeah you are firmly belted in to the rollercoaster - boy I do NOT miss those days. That up and down madsadmadsad will happen for a while. But it does get better with time. And just remember - THIS TOO SHALL PASS. Whatever you are feeling will pass. Just feel it, let it out, and keep moving forward.

Also, I just have to point out - she STILL has her head so far up her ass she can't even see straight. Any time a WS is still spinning the "I don't want"..."I need"... yeah those are still selfish and self-serving thoughts. For me it was so easy to fall back in to my old habits of care and compassion for him that I honestly didn't notice all those self-serving attitudes until way later. So yeah... #fuckthatshit. Until/unless her thinking shifts to "I can't believe I did this to my husband and my sons", don't buy for a second that she is feeling anything other than self-pity. I am sure part of you knows that, but it helped me a lot in the early days to get validation that I wasn't going full-on cuckoo's nest.

I know how hard those days were for me when just breathing in and out and sitting upright felt overwhelming. Force yourself to do at least one little constructive/productive thing. Even if it is just a load of laundry or putting gas in the car. Just doing one little thing helps a lot. Also, if you haven't already, I would talk to your doc about antidepressants just to help get you through the worst of this. I was a holy mess with them, I shudder to think what I would have been like without them.

Hang in there sir. This too shall pass.

[This message edited by EllieKMAS at 3:15 PM, July 8th (Wednesday)]

HouseOfPlane posted 7/8/2020 15:09 PM

The fucked up part is that when she said she "didn't want to feel like this"

Don't feel like you can't answer every single question she asks, or respond to every single thing she says, with, "Fuck you, tell me what his name is."

Just lock it all down until you get what you want. She wants something from you now. Feel free to use it.

BSHusbandWI posted 7/8/2020 19:37 PM

I know how hard those days were for me when just breathing in and out and sitting upright felt overwhelming. Force yourself to do at least one little constructive/productive thing. Even if it is just a load of laundry or putting gas in the car. Just doing one little thing helps a lot

I did today - 2 things. Reach out to a hiring manager for a job via video. and do some philanthropic teaching of youth in our community.

That hasn't seemed to help my state of alone-ness and sadness.

I REALLY FUKKING HATE THIS!!

BSHusbandWI posted 7/8/2020 20:04 PM

we have this cat - a shitty, miserable, cat. I'm good with cats, but she sucks. years ago we bought her this cat "tower" or whateverthefuck you call it. we've been talking about putting it out with the trash for a long time now, but they wont take it unless it fits in the bin.

I dragged that thing into the garage tonight, grabbed a sledge hammer/axe and took many viscous swings at that thing. I thought it would be a good outlet. You ALL KNOW WHAT i WAS THINKING ABOUT (OR WHO) with each swing of that 20lb hammer/axe as i totally wrecked it into pieces. Honestly, I'm ashamed to say, I'm not sure if I was thinking more of him or her. I just spent the last 5 minutes crying about that before I could type it. AM I REALLY THAT BAD OF A PERSON??! WTF IS WRONG WITH ME??

On top of all of that my 16 yo opened the door to the garage and asked is everything was okay. I looked up, I was out of breath, I'm sure had an angry look on my face and said It was fine. He was not convinced, but closed the door. A few seconds later he opens it again and asks if the cat wanted to keep the tower. I said we've been talking about getting rid of it. So, it goes out with the trash tomorrow. He's like.... Okay. And went back upstairs.

All this this time WW is sleeping to make up for 3rd shift work for the next 5 days.

For me, it was total knee jerk reaction to my emotions. I totally forgot that 16yo was in his room. I just needed to smash something - it was for a good reason - to get it in the trash for tomorrow and maybe blow off some steam.

That's honestly the totally messed up part of this. I have mostly been sad today, but also sprints of extreme anger.

I know Ellie said I'm strapped into the roller coaster, but for fucks sake, I'm grown fucking man! and I'm THIS OUT OF CONTROL OF MYSELF AND MY EMOTIONS??!!

I need to compose myself and talk to 16yo boy before we go to bed tonight. My concerns are exposing my rage, or being weak. I also don't want him to be scared of me. I'm honestly not sure what to talk to him about. He a fucking smart kid, he KNOWS that what he saw was not normal, despite what I said. And it wasn't that I don't know how to right size this thing and make it a positive learning experience for him.

Keep in mind I'm in adult education and also high school creative education. I get how this would work from a pedagogy or androgogy perspective, but not with all this emotional bullshit getting in the way.

So lost. Can someone provide me perspective and some thoughts on what and how to talk to my son.

- I'm a mess... AGAIN

I'm sick to my fucking stomach on what a piece of shit I am right now to be able to lead my boys to healthy living. And if there is anything that I NEED to do right now it's be good for my boys. I don't feel capable.

[This message edited by BSHusbandWI at 8:11 PM, July 8th (Wednesday)]

RocketRaccoon posted 7/8/2020 21:07 PM

My concerns are exposing my rage, or being weak.

Out of curiosity, why would you think that?

To me, if you had held it in, you would have exploded and caused collateral damage. You could have taken that misplaced anger out on your kids instead, or worse, do something that might have had you arrested.

You are a pressure cooker on the stove right now. The chaos going on inside you will build up, and the cat tower was the perfect way to release some of that steam in a controlled environment.

I also don't want him to be scared of me. I'm honestly not sure what to talk to him about. He a fucking smart kid, he KNOWS that what he saw was not normal, despite what I said.

Ask him what he felt when he saw you like that. There is no shame in being human, even though you are his dad.

Talk it through with him. If he is as smart as you say he is, he might even be able to give you some advice.....

EllieKMAS posted 7/8/2020 21:18 PM

Bsh you are not fucked up, weak, a piece of shit, or unusual right now. You needed to vent your anger and you did it in a productive way. 2 birds right? Took care of something that needed to be done and released some of that rage. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. This is the rollercoaster. And unfortunately there's no shortcutting it, you just have to push through.

Man, I had dreams (both asleep and awake) of doing some h-o-r-r-i-b-l-e-a-s-s shit to douche and his little c***cake. Truly evil thoughts that made me wonder about myself. Guess what? That's normal after being hurt like this. It's an unfortunate side effect. I had one night when we were just hanging out that I took our wedding wineglasses out and threw them at his truck. I took a kitchem torch to our wedding photos and his favorite shoes. I had another day I'm pretty sure ellie went byebye for a bit when I had a panic attack at work and woke up 2 hours later in the fetal position on my bathroom floor, with zero recollection of driving home. It sucks but what you're feeling and experiencing is totally normal. Rage away. So long as it's on inanimate objects and not living things, I for one say you're fine.

As for talking to your son. Don't be afraid to tell him that this whole experience is really painful and emotionally disorienting. I'm betting he will probably sort of get it. Make sure to tell him that you won't ever hurt him, but at that moment you needed to vent some anger.

BSHusbandWI posted 7/8/2020 22:35 PM

My concerns are exposing my rage, or being weak.

Out of curiosity, why would you think that?

Because the way I am acting, is beyond anything I thought i was EVER capable of. Having my boys see me act like that or having them hear me say to WW, "Your're such a fucking whore, how many guys have you spread your legs for?" During one of those rages... I NEVER thought I would/could say that about anyone let alone my wife. AND the thought that the boys would hear that.. NO WAY!!

I cringe at the thought of what they would think of me saying that about their mother. I say again that I feel like the old me has been stripped away by this adultery and a new, more raw, "fuck you and anyone else that gets in my way" type of guy has replaced him. It's not something that I think is a good thing, but it is what has happened.

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