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EllieKMAS posted 7/6/2020 13:45 PM

BSH, I am glad that you had a glimmer, but I will stress extreme caution for you right now. My xwh came down the morning after I finally said no to all his stupid bullshit about dating and fucking other women (I know, right? Took me 5 months to say a firm hellNAW to that crap), and cried on the living room floor like a little child about how badly he fucked up and how sorry he was etc etc etc. That was April 4. When I was out of town on April 19 he invited his skank over for a sleepover in my house, in my bed. Point being, do not listen to anything words-wise that comes out of her lying mouth right now. Look at her actions. Talk is fucking cheap.

For me, it was way too easy to fall into thinking "Now he gets it! Now he will make it right!" because that is what I wanted so desperately. But his actions proved that his words were lies from the get-go. He also pulled the 'I don't know how to fix this' over and over again. But he managed to cheat on me and do all that without any help, sooooo. Figure it the fuck out.

Saying this from a place of BS-care all the way, but stop. Just stop. No more letters. No more 'discussions'. You have told her exactly what she needs to do for you to even have a hope of moving forward with you and thus far she has proven 100% unwilling to take any of those steps. THAT is what she really is. Time will tell if she can change, but for right now she is still lying to you with every breath. And whoop-de-fuck so she read a few pages of a book. Did she read them while having naked picture time with her boyfriend I wonder?

BSHusbandWI posted 7/6/2020 14:48 PM

Ellie,

Went to sleep with a lot of Hope.

I woke up kind of steeled, and belligerent. Understanding what you said about talk being cheap.

Sure enough, she came to me and asked me if I did some stuff around the house (surprise--water the flowers) I said no. She went on a minor rant about is that what I'm going to do just not take care of the house and basically say fuck it. Because if I'm going to do that so is she. And how I'm so difficult. Blah blah blah.

I said I'm not going to talk about it. Somewhere in there she threw in she'll go to mediation. But she's confused because she read part of that book, she went to a counselor, and she's not sure what I wanted to do. I told her I put everything in the letter. She knows what to do.

Still playing phone tag with the attorney. Just finished talking with my therapist. Set the stage that tomorrow he and I will come to agreement on how we move forward if she's willing to meet with the three of us. I will not talk about our relationship. If he can't agree to that and that the three of us meeting is essentially a fact-finding mission on the affair, then it's a non-starter in my book.

ShutterHappy posted 7/6/2020 15:53 PM

Perhaps, in the divorce settlement, you keep the house and she keeps the flower? Win-win

BSHusbandWI posted 7/6/2020 16:04 PM

Perhaps, in the divorce settlement, you keep the house and she keeps the flower? Win-win

HA!

Actually, I'm trying to find a way to keep the house because it's a stable place for the boys and I think it would be easier on them and me.

I know there are a lot of memories here of WW. We built this house (had a builder, made all the decisions together). But A lot of those are good memories. I think it would be okay.

ChamomileTea posted 7/6/2020 16:39 PM

She broke down and said how she fucked everything up and that now she continues to fuck up her kids even now.

That's a choice, one she's still making every day that she continues to withhold answers from you. I have to think that the OM is married and has a lot to lose by being discovered. By continuing to protect him, she's showing where her loyalty lies.

I think it's good that you're going for the house, and to be honest, I'd shoot for the moon and ask for as much as possible. If we're right and the OM is married, he's not going to be there to pick up the pieces. She should begin to see that you're for real and that she's losing everything, including her flowers. Maybe that will knock some sense into her. Maybe not. Either way though, you'll be further down the road to peace and freedom.

BSHusbandWI posted 7/6/2020 16:45 PM

he should begin to see that you're for real and that she's losing everything, including her flowers.

If I do manage to keep the house, I think I will pull out every flower/plant and go buy new ones to put in their place.

That would be therapeutic and symbolic.

k8la posted 7/6/2020 21:23 PM

I completely understand the need to know. She mentioned this is all about your ego.

Well what the hell does she expect? She's the one who above anyone else is supposed to have your back. You trusted her in that space, and what did she do? She stabbed you and had an accomplice.

Ego is about protection - when no one else protects you, your ego protects you. And your demand for everything you listed is required to begin to let you know who the threats are in your life, and the exact nature of those threats. Period. End of story.

You don't need gory details to whip yourself into a frenzy. You need details to know if you walk into a space with your enemy to have your guard up. You NEED. to know who he is. No promises, except that you won't be going to jail for some piece of excrement she cuddled up with. But you need to know so you can protect yourself, since she has proven beyond all doubt that she won't.

BSHusbandWI posted 7/6/2020 22:09 PM

You need details to know if you walk into a space with your enemy to have your guard up. You NEED. to know who he is.

That is where I am now. Here is what I think I NEED:

1. His full name
2. His occupation and where he works
3. When it started

There is a whole bunch of other things that I WANT, but if I still can't get my needs, they are so very improbable. So, I'm not going to pursue them unless I see an opportunity AFTER I get my 3 information needs met.

coldheart99 posted 7/6/2020 22:18 PM

I think you need a 4th item.

If I don't get the first three then I need to divorce your lying cheating ass ASAP.

BSHusbandWI posted 7/6/2020 22:37 PM

coldheart99

Well, yes. But this list was for me, not her.

And I haven't stopped moving forward with D. Just been playing phone tag with the lawyer.

I am trying to see if I can get the 3 pieces of information at the same time as working forward on D.

[This message edited by BSHusbandWI at 10:39 PM, July 6th (Monday)]

Buffer posted 7/6/2020 22:46 PM

You are doing the best you can. She is actively driving your information.
Listen to all that is going on. She doesn’t want you to know. Do you believe/think this could be a mutual acquaintance?
Buffer

BSHusbandWI posted 7/6/2020 22:58 PM

Do you believe/think this could be a mutual acquaintance?

Someone else has mentioned that. I honestly don't know. I wish I did so I could hang out with them and do some sleuthing.

Westway posted 7/7/2020 10:12 AM

You'll find over the next few weeks that she will blow hot and cold, hot and cold, as if she has bipolar disorder or something. My STBXWW was the same way up until I moved out. In the end she didn't mean any of the comforting things she said to me. The minute I was moved out and the divorce filed she started throwing her legs up for every guy who called her pretty.

What I'm saying is, signs of remorse are not what you think they are. It's just her feeling sorry for herself and realizing the nice comfortable life she had with you is coming to an end. She took you for granted, and now she's having seller's remorse.

BSHusbandWI posted 7/7/2020 11:06 AM

Westway:

That's exactly what's going on - the back and forth by her like that.

I thought maybe it was remorse when she said, "I fucked everything up and I'm still fucking up the boys" (all said with tears).

But I now believe that it comes from her feeling sorry for HERSELF because the older one has told her that it wasn't a mistake that it was a bunch of choices she made. (I'm glad he sees that FACT) My family and my friends (used to be OUR friends) will not answer any calls or texts from her and she feels more alone.

I don't believe that the crying the other day was from remorse. If it were, it would be more than that - A willingness to help me process - and no blaming me anymore. And finding ways to help me feel safe (like sharing her technology data and checking in when she goes somewhere). Since no of that is happening she is just not showing anything near what makes me want to R with her.

EllieKMAS posted 7/7/2020 11:10 AM

I don't believe that the crying the other day was from remorse. If it were, it would be more than that - A willingness to help me process - and no blaming me anymore. And finding ways to help me feel safe (like sharing her technology data and checking in when she goes somewhere). Since no of that is happening she is just not showing anything near what makes me want to R with her.
EXACTLY. You know what's up BSH. Keep looking at the truth of what she's up to and act accordingly.

The1stWife posted 7/7/2020 12:23 PM

I would stop trying to find out who the OM was or is.

She’s showing you exactly who and what she is.

At the very least she’s someone who has no respect for others and is a manipulative jerk.

My H tried to deflect info on the OW. I asked who is she? He said you don’t know her. I said give me her name. He knew I wasn’t playing around. My attitude was loud and clear. No name - get out.

He answered immediately. I wasn’t wasting time playing that bullshit game. And neither should you.

You ask once more. If she refuses you pack her clothes and show her the door. Because that’s where this is headed anyway. You can see it even now.

Dismayed2012 posted 7/7/2020 12:27 PM

I was wondering the same thing that 'Buffer' mentioned. If it's a friend of yours then she'd be more likely to want to hide it. Also, if the other man is married and/or has kids she'd be more desperate to hide it.

In either case, she's protecting the other man over saving her marriage. She cares more about him than she does about you. That's a big issue. I like what another poster said about it being a simple choice. Complete honesty or straight to divorce.

Keep moving forward with the divorce paperwork and keep setting the tone and pace. Never again allow her to dictate anything to you. She's proven that she's not trustworthy to be in charge.

I wish the best for you.

anoldlion posted 7/7/2020 14:36 PM

First let me say that sex is not everything in a marriage but it is an integral part in a happy and successful marriage. I have read your thread and in the fourth paragraph of your initial post you said there had been no sex in your marriage for years. So why are you still there?

You are in your early 50's. I assume you are still capable of sex. It has already been established your wife is more than capable. I could understand if one of you had a medical or physical problem that precluded sex but that doesn't appear to be the problem. You said she turned into a prude. Why? Do you know what caused the change? Have you ever ask her and got a satisfying answer?

I have been married a long time.(I was probably married when you had your first birthday) Sex is still a component in our marriage. From sex you get an intimacy and closeness that transcends the physical act of sex. If a married couple isn't getting that then all they are doing is just f**king. And when that happens the marriage is in trouble. Yea, early in our marriage we were there too but we worked and made a very successful marriage. So what changed in your marriage that caused the disconnect? Could you ever get it back? If no, then divorce and go find it somewhere else. I do wish you well.

fareast posted 7/7/2020 17:10 PM

Your last post was spot on BSHWI. You’ve nailed her modus operandi. That is more than half the battle, to see through her attempts at manipulation, without offering you anything of substance you need to heal. Well done.

BSHusbandWI posted 7/7/2020 17:25 PM

Just got back from IC... Which was really a MC session, but alone.

On my drive home, was a very strange occurrence... The forecast was for clear skies, just a touch of clouds. And that's what I was experiencing, and then it just started raining. No dark clouds, just rain that followed me for like three miles while the skies were blue and the clouds white and puffy. It was like a screenplay that had been written just for me to signify how I was feeling... Everyone else experiencing a beautiful day, but for me, even though I can see the beautiful day with blue sky and while puffy clouds, It was raining. So crazy and strange. Anyway, about the IC session...

The therapist has talked to WW once and me 2x now. This was more of a "get to know me more session" and then the tail end was to figure out how the three of us might meet... Again MC.

I told him I will not meet unless we discuss the affair. I said I cannot live in the dark and her in the light. My bare minimum requirements for meeting are to learn:

1) OM's Full name
2) OM's Occupation
3) When and how they first met
4) How many times they met in person in total

Initially, he said that seems fair except for his name. I got pretty aggressive and said that's a non-starter. He said he was worried I would go after him because of my anger. I said that I'm not stupid and don't want to end up in jail or have my kids hear I was in jail for doing something stupid. So, I promised that I would not seek him out. I reiterated my minimums (or no 3-way meeting) in text after the appointment so there was no room for miscommunication.

He said he would try to work his magic and get us talking and get those things for me. We will see. If that meeting takes place, it is supposed to take place before the weekend. I'm sure I'm going to have to agree to something I don't want, like to talk about our relationship.

He seems like a nice guy. His main (paraphrased) goal is to: have us in a better place down the road (either together or separate) with both of us acting healthy toward each other and our children. That's admirable.

As far as D, I spoke with lawyer, have a path forward for next Monday. We will either have a mediation session on the books by Tuesday morning or her firm will become my lawyer and I will file.

Oh more arguments with WW today - 2x.

First one was dumb, I can't even waste any energy typing out for everyone. The second one was kind of even more cray cray.

I told each boy, that I was making lunch, wanted to know if they wanted that too. They each said yes, I got to work on the grill (making, essentially Q'doba) I make it, call them to the table. We start eating. WW starts slamming things around the house (cabinets, etc) - yes, like a child.

Us boys look at each other... The banging around gets louder and more frequent. The younger one goes to WW and asks her to calm down and relax (yes, a 16 yo, asking his mother to relax)... Meanwhile I'm @ the table with the 18 yo and we look at each other. I said I wish she would quit acting so childish... He says, "I was going to say the exact same thing."

She was venting (and crying) to 16 yo, that "that's how it is. You all have lunch together and I'm not even thought of at all. I'm nothing. No one cares about ME! or something like that. The 16 yo said sorry. What a mind fuck for that poor boy.

Later I went to him and said that he SHOULD NOT feel guilty and should not have apologized because he had nothing to be sorry for. He said, I know. Why didn't you just ask her if she wanted lunch. I said, "Mom is doing nothing to help me better understand her affair, and help me through it. I'm not in a place where I should be the one doing all of the mending and doing. She needs to do for me first because of her choices".

I'm sure I could have been more eloquent and have explained it better, but that's what came out. I will think about how I explain it to him and make an opportunity for us to have a talk.

In the past week, I have been checking with each of my boys seeing if they had any questions, or wanted to talk about anything or if there is anything that they needed to get off their chest with me. I told them that me and their mom are okay discussing those things and to just come to us.

Other than that, I am not trying to control any narrative with them. Just being their dad with dad/kid stuff and trying set the best example I can for them about being a strong person in the face of adversity.

WW, though, keeps trying to make them (well at least the 18 yo) feel bad for her. That I didn't love her and the marriage was bad... so.... excusing her choices. I've had to set the record straight about choices and how that works and how a marriage is SUPPOSED to work and that she violated that commitment. I always tell them that I will give them facts and not try to twist them against their mother. And that is true. But honestly, the facts very well may make them not feel so good about their mother. Not because I say so, but because the facts are not in her favor.

Anyway, just trying to survive day by day here.


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