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KingofNothing posted 6/25/2020 22:56 PM

now that she has totally blocked me from looking at any phone records (which SCREAMS she's still active with him, BTW), that she'll get a bit more bold and begin calling him and maybe I can catch his name during a one sided phone conversation. I realize that's not super likely.

So, just wondering.. how was she able to do that? Blocking you from your cell service? Don't you at least help pay for it? How are you using a phone, now? If she pulls a stunt like that, you shouldn't contribute one thin dime to paying for it from now on. Of course, if she's footing the entire bill, that's another blind alley.

The term "partner" drives me up a fucking wall!! PARTNER!??! That's what I'm supposed to be and to give that fucking piece of shit (or skank if it's a woman) the title of PARTNER!?!?! NO FUCKING WAY!

Oh yeah, I know exactly what you mean here. I think some of the terms we use are just a little too genteel for my liking.. I had many choice terms for my ex's flings, but none of them were "partner". Likewise, "Wayward Spouse" seems so frolicsome and neutral, like they are skipping around making crowns of flowers or something. Even "Infidelity" which is certainly accurate, but I almost always go for the more Old Testament "Adultery". It had higher shock value when I was in the middle of divorce, and I'm used to it.

I would keep at it with the VAR. It's a waiting game. I wish I had known about them when I was going through this. You can at least hope for her speaking to her little play friend at work. Even if all you get is a first name, if your wife is on FB or Instagram you might start looking through her friends list to see who has that first name.

I don't know squat about keyloggers, never used 'em. However, if she has a dedicated PC at home and you have access to it when she is out, you might try installing something like that on there. That way if she emails someone you would get a copy of it. Likewise Gchat or other PC based tools. Keylogger software is pretty reasonable from what I've read on here.

I don't suppose you can get access to her phone when she sleeps, from the sound of things. Especially if she's in another room now.

Stevesn posted 6/25/2020 23:01 PM

Did you talk to any lawyers today? PI?

BSHusbandWI posted 6/26/2020 08:38 AM

So, just wondering.. how was she able to do that? Blocking you from your cell service?

I still have service. She is the one who opened the cell account for the family. I used to have rights to go on the site and pay a bill and look at my usage. Now I can't do any of that. Just use my phone - no online access.

When I was grabbing the cell records and text logs, I was logged in as her. She has since changed the password. - no access for me.

No PC. WW does have a iPad and iPhone which she has been keeping not available to me.

Off to consult with lawyer.

BSHusbandWI posted 6/26/2020 13:40 PM

I talked to a lawyer today. We discussed many things. Based on WW and I's previous discussions, we both still have the kids best interests at the forefront of our minds (where we are now anyway). I can't say that for the decisions she has made with adultery.

My state is a 50/50 marital property state - everything gets split.

That means that the only real sticking point is "spousal maintenance".

For those reasons, I'm considering mediation instead of a set of lawyers. It's less expensive, hopefully gains me some "guilt points" (and thus more $$) when we discuss maintenance.

I have some thinking to do over the weekend, in addition to doing an initial consult with another lawyer early next week to rule that lawyer out as an option for WW. This particular lawyer was recommended to eliminate per the lawyer consult I had today.

I'm going out of town in an hour with the VAR hidden and on.

Kids are taken care of (so both her and I are free to do as we please) until tomorrow afternoon.

Later.

Buster123 posted 6/26/2020 13:55 PM

Good on the lawyer consult, how about the PI ? did you get one hired ? if so what are their expectations based on the info and details you provided ?

Decimated posted 6/26/2020 14:01 PM

Sorry you found yourself here. This is the club where no one wants to be a member.

My XWW acted the same way as your wife when I discovered her cheating. Most of them do. She became snotty, arrogant, entitled, and just a general b!tch. She became the oldes teenager in the house and to her, I was the tyrannical father. She refused to open up with her phone, computer and be honest with me. She said she would go to therapy but dragged her feet for 8 months. Like your wife, My XWW knew I had her busted and tried the meaningless small gestures of fake niceness. Don't fall for that crap. You are plan B. She is just trying to control the situation and keep you in orbit in case her plan A falls through.

I figured out who the POSom was through cell phone records. The account was in my name. I used a GPS tracker on the car she was driving, my name as well, to prove to myself that she was still lying. I found POSom's wife on Fakebook and contacted her. Within 5 minutes, she called me. She actually knew more than me. We talked and exchanged evidence. POSom's wife divorced him and I divorced my XWW. POSom dumped XWW as soon as his divorce was final.

It would be great to find out who this POSom is but I wouldn't become abscessed. The truth is, it doesn't matter. Sure it would be great to bust him but it's not your problem, Your wife is. She is now showing you her true self, believe her on this one.

Having been through this myself but I was stupid and held on to hope for way too long. My advice is Divorce as soon as possible. The divorce laws could work for you because she is the bread winner now. That means alimony, depending on the state. Child support if you have kids for at least 50% of the time and 1/2 of all marital assets.

If this POSom has a young child, he may not want to get divorced. Your wife was probably just a free, uncomplicated side piece. When she tells him she is getting divorced, he will probably dump her and run home.

Stay cold and dark to her. No more talks, no more conversations, nothing, unless itís about kids.

Do not confide in her, do not share your feelings with her, do not talk to her, sheís not your friend. Sheís not your wife anymore. Your wife is gone.

Hereís some more truth. Once a woman falls out of love and falls for another guy, they almost never come back. The sooner you except that and move on, the better. I know its easier said than done but thatís the direction you need to be going in.

There must be consequences for her choices. Donít let her be a cake eater with you at home raising the kids while sheís out living a separate life. Make your wife sleep in the spare bedroom, on the couch, in the basement, the garage or better yet, somewhere else. Shes the one that broke your marriage contract.

Trust me, After all of this sinks in, you will never want her back. You need to do everything you can to get her away from you as soon as possible. You canít continue to live in the current situation, it will tear you apart emotionally and physically.

Stinger posted 6/26/2020 19:50 PM

God advice from Decimated. Jettison this piece of garbage

Buffer posted 6/27/2020 20:00 PM

Brother, you are doing well. Be that 180 grey rock.
Seek as many legal consults as needed. As stated it closes them off to STBX due to conflict of interest. Her BF needs his world rearranged.! Keep after his name. He has one. Then let his family know he has a GF, your current wife.
Start or continue to exercise drink water and eat healthy.
Next time STBX is out with her toxic friend rock up there with a friend and just relax! Take in the vibe. You need a life as well.
Tell all family including your children they have the right to know mum has a BF.
One day at a time
Buffer

BSHusbandWI posted 6/28/2020 09:28 AM

Well, last night was a shit show. I was playing online poker with friends... we took a break I went outside to get some air and I saw WW's girlfriend's car pull out following another car. WW's car was no where to be seen. I was like WTF???

I had a couple of drinks in me and called WW. Asked her what what going on. I didn't tell her, but honestly i was concerned that now this POS is actually at my house (outside) and thinking about my boys.

I wasn't clear about her explanation, (it wasn't POS's car - some other friend from work) but doesn't matter I guess. I asked her to stay somewhere else tonight. side note- I'm having a hard time containing my anger. I did not say that very calmly. She did not agree. We ended phone call. I sent her a text that said "Find a place to stay for at least tonight. You are not welcome here." Then I used that anger to lock the doors and unplug the garage door opener.

Then things got ugly. When she got home and could not get in, she called the 16 year old and said I locked her out and he needs to let her in. I asked him not to. He asked why, Dad... Remember he doesn't know about the adultery.

She came at me in my face, which she has done over the years on and off. (the boys were 2 levels up in the house) In the past when she did this, she would push me and she knew I would not put up a fight because I was always taught that you don't treat women that way. last night was different. I pushed back, she tried to grab my hands ,i didn't let that happen and grabbed her hands and walked her backward and said something like oh you think you can take me? You have another thing coming. There was no hitting, just pushing her out of my personal space.

We both ended up speaking with the boys in a not so good way. Her version was "I made a mistake". My version was a man doesn't put up with this kind of behavior from anyone. I wanted this to happen differently.

If she just would have stayed out last night (or I didn't lock her out) none of this would have ever happened.

while all the discussions were going on with the 16 yr old, my mom called and says what are you doing? i was like, huh? Apparently, my wife called her and my mother was seemingly not siding with me at first. (i guess WW said she might call the cops and mom did not want to see me get hauled off) She explained later that playing it cool was a better option that she was trying to get me to realize (but it wasn't delivered that way.) I then had to talk to her and explain the she's MY mom and that even talking with WW is a betrayal. She immediately understood that. In fact while we were talking WW tried to call 2x and she did not pick up. Honestly, what was the WW thinking?

The 18yr old came home and came down to say hi. i asked if mom talked to him. He initially said no. I began to explain what happened. He then said that WW did talk to him. And got the "I made a mistake" version. I stopped him and said, "It's not a mistake. It was a series of decisions to engage with this man many times over many months. 100's of deliberate choices and that she's not being completely honest.

the older boy seems to be taking it well (which is kinda weird and worries me a bit). The younger is a mess. i talked to him this morning and told him I didn't want it to happen this way (he said me either). I did say that he would have found out eventually, and it would have been hard either way, but this is not what I wanted. I think he understood.

VAR, turned up a first name for POS. and some telling info about the kind of BS her girlfriend is shoveling to WW. Toxic thinking about life-long relationships... paraphrase: "No animals in the animal kingdom mate for life and those that do die right way... Any one that thinks that should be the case - there's something seriously wrong with them. girlfriend is fucked up... The animal kingdom doesn't have the institution of marriage. It's simple - believe in monogamy - stay married ...if you don't, get a divorce and then you're free to see others (or have your spouse agree that it's okay to see others).

Anyway. It's a shit show here. I asked the 16yr old this morning if he had any questions. He said he didnt know/didnt think so. I told him we'll probably all talk as a family later, so he should figure out if he has questions for me or WW.

I'm going to keep that convo on the future, not the past (neither our relationship - painting a picture of excuses and also not the cheating itself - unless they have questions for us). It should be short. saying we don't know what's next, but as we move forward we'll all talk.

Any thoughts about that conversation?

Stinger posted 6/28/2020 09:46 AM

Be very careful. You are being set up for a DV charge. Stay away from this monster.

Anna123 posted 6/28/2020 10:11 AM

Thoughts for the conversation. I like your idea of talking about what is coming up, (but when you actually know) and not going into the past (but they need the basic facts.) I think you will get a few different opinions here and just have to weigh them for yourself but here is my story:

My son was 12 at the time and when I was deliberating how to tell him, I called my nephew, (who is now an adult) who's Dad cheated on Mom and divorced when he was 12. I asked him for advice. The first thing out of his mouth was "don't sit him down for a talk!". It is one of his worse, most uncomfortable memories he has to this day.

After this I decided I am not interested in presenting some sort of unified front with someone I am not unified with, (and I didn't want him to counteract me during the discussion in front of my son), so I spoke to him only alone, and in only factual basics with no opinions. (12 years is different than 16/18) I basically said, "Dad is choosing to be with someone else and that is not what a marriage is. I gave him a chance to change that and he has decided not to. We both love you and will agree on how to raise you though and none of this is your fault in any way. I didn't want this but it is what he has chosen" That was it. If they ask questions then you can go from there like you said, I just think a family talk gives her a chance to stir things up. As far as the logistics of what is happening, no reason to have to discuss that until an actual decision is made and still, they don't need both of you at once going into it. Just my two cents.

Be careful, probably no more alcohol for you with her around. This stuff, with witnesses, can really work against you. You absolutely cannot have this locking out/physical pushing back ever happen again for your sake, (and your sons) they could loose respect for you if it continues. Not that we don't all understand the feelings behind the reaction if she was physically up in your face, but it will really muddy the waters all around.

Take care.

Hedwig posted 6/28/2020 10:47 AM

Hey man, I am sorry you are here.

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I wanted to give you this thread

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=617809&HL=74175

It contains a link to two podcasts that talk about betrayal trauma.

The thread is called "finally, therapists who get what betrayed spoused go through" and it is called that for a reason.

It speaks about betrayal trauma in the context of sex addicts mostly but is very, very applicable to other types of infidelity as well.

I wish I had heared this podcast when I first found out. First: I
It hits home and I felt so relieved to know that there are words and a framework to it all.

Secondly: it shows you what to look for in an IC and CC. Most CC promote rugsweeping, just like yours does with his "we will talk about how you both come to this point" or some bullshit like that. This. Is. Not. Your. Fault.

Don't let them talk about "other issues in the marriage" until the betrayal trauma is dealt with, whether you R or D.

smolderingdark posted 6/28/2020 11:28 AM

Many advocate keeping the children out of it. That is all fine and well if both parents are capable of dealing with each other fairly. You have asked wtf was your WW thinking when she reached out to your mother. Your wayward wife tried to turn your mom against you. You should have little doubt that she will try to turn the boys against you. Take whatever proof you have of her affair, sit your boys down and tell them all you know unfiltered. Cheaters do not respond to reason nor do they have sympathy for anyone but themselves. Cheaters fight to win and will do so at the expense of their betrayed spouse.

Bravo for stepping up and refusing to let your wife push you around as she has in the past. That being said if it comes down to a game of he said, she said, you can expect to lose. Try to stay hands off going forward or break out your phone and get video of her aggressive behavior. You have a VAR for her car. Time I think for you to carry a VAR on your person. No doubt you took well deserved satisfaction from locking her out of the home. Legally this will likely back fire on you if you choose to repeat the experience.

Biggest hurdle - your anger. This is her best weapon against you. Even if justified your anger will be used against you. You need to move her into another room, the garage or the basement. Get a lock for your bedroom door. Refuse to communicate with her unless it concerns the process of divorce or care for your boys. If she wants to talk about anything else refer her to her "girlfriend" or her AP by his first name which you have recently learned. Do nothing for her benefit, no matter how trivial. She is on her own. Don't bother spelling it our for her. She can twist anything you say against you. Let your actions speak.

I would discourage you from having a conversation with the boys if your wayward wife is present. It will accomplish nothing in your favor. There will be water works and she will attempt to shift the blame on you. Likely you do not want to alienate your sons from their mother. Your wife has no such concerns for your relationship with your sons. If you allow her to she will turn everyone she can against you. If you haven't exposed her affair to family and friends consider doing it quickly before her narrative is accepted as the truth. Your defiance and refusal to accept her customary physical abuse will have sent a strong message to her that she is no longer in control.

goalong posted 6/28/2020 11:28 AM

I then had to talk to her and explain the she's MY mom and that even talking with WW is a betrayal


You are wrong in your last comment . Your mom is level headed. You played into WW hand. It is possible (again possible) that friend and others planed this to get you emotionally worked up and get police involved. If your mom had not responded WW wold have called police.
It seems you are still going through the emotions. If you have concluded that there is no going back play indifferent. The cheaters hate when one play cool. Calm and to the point when you interact with her.

[This message edited by goalong at 11:30 AM, June 28th (Sunday)]

Stevesn posted 6/28/2020 11:33 AM

Hi BSH

Iíve been reading your thread for a while, thinking about if and how I can help. I think Iíll finally chime in.

Iím a big fan of clarity and honesty. And thatís exponentially true after infidelity occurs in a relationship.

I havenít seen how youíve been direct with her. At least not completely. If I were in your shoes I would take stock of the situation and realize that reconciliation is not something that could start today, take a few weeks, and have life return to bliss in a few months or two. It was clear to you that your relationship was in trouble even before you discovered the infidelity.

Rebuilding this relationship into something even resembling a happy marriage will take years. I am being realistic here. I am not sure YOU have it in you to do that, let alone HER, the wayward spouse.

So I suggest you first be honest with yourself, And admit that itís unlikely with her attitude right now that any of that will happen. Your relationship, unless you decide to an open marriage with a lot of rug sweeping of the past, is likely to be ending.

Once you do that, you can take steps to start rebuilding your own life. If she chooses to change, take this seriously, realize what is important, and start self analysis, removing of those who are cancers to her and her family, and taking responsibility for her actions then perhaps you can take the slow road to creating something new, almost from scratch.

But you donít control her. Right now sheís controlling you more than you are her. Donít wait for her to try and change. Itís a fools errand. So stop thinking about saving your marriage. That will or wonít happen not based on what you do, but on what she does.

So my suggestion is to make a clear and honest statement, for a final time, and then move on, have her served and get yourself a therapist as support.

If it were me Iíd put it in a letter so there could be no ambiguity and no interruptions from her. Give it to her, and then get on with your life. She will have dozens of steps sheíd have to take to rebuild things with you after receiving it. After sending it, donít coach her or anything. Sheíll decide if you are worth it. From what you have said to us, I donít imagine she has the strength or will to make that happen, but stranger things have happened here.

So if it were me, hereís an example of what Iíd write:


Wife:

Itís clear you have chose to have an emotional and romantic life outside our marriage. In fact, looking back, itís been clear for about 5 years since you stopped being intimate with me. I donít know what caused that, but I wish you had been honest with me back then instead of leaving me to wonder what I had done to lose your heart.

Let me be clear, I will not be in a marriage where I have to share my wife emotionally or romantically with another man or other men or even women. It is clear you desire others more than you do me. So I will not stand in the way of those desires. You are free to go pursue them, but no longer as my wife.

The sad part is, you are choosing a lifestyle that I might have been Interested in sharing with you. But instead of being honest about it with me and giving me that chance, you chose to betray me with other people and in turn cut off all sexual intimacy with me.

I was in the same troubled marriage as you, but I respected you enough to remain faithful. What you have done has broken my heart. The fact that you chose give away some of the best and most intimate parts of our relationship to another will be something I will have to work to heal from for a long time.

Since it is obvious to me you have no interest in helping me with that I can only now take the steps to legally end the relationship your actions have destroyed.

It would take months and years of hard work to rebuild and recover from what you have done. I see no indication that you have any desire to do so. Just in case you are interested, Let me clearly tell you a few of the things youíd have to start with in order to have a safe and respectful relationship again:

- Identify yo me who you are having this affair with and together we write him a NO CONTACT letter that we send together
- never have contact with him again in any way the rest of your life
- end contact with anyone, including ďfun friendĒ whom enables you to have the affair
- write me a full timeline of the affair with where you did things, when you did them, what you did, how you felt and what you thought when you were doing them
- Provide transparency of ALL electronics. No hidden burner phones, and include gps verification of where you are to rebuild trust (I will provide the same)
- start individual counseling with a therapist that specializes in infidelity therapy
- write your own plan with these items and more to make me feel safe in the relationship
- intimacy with me on my terms. You have the right to refuse and I have the right to what is and is not a deal breaker for me.
- agree to one or more polygraphs to verify what you put in your timeline of your affair
- we tell the kids that our marriage is in trouble and that you had an improper relationship with another man. They donít need details but if we are not going to be working on rebuilding we need to honestly tell them that. If we are, then we need to let them know that we will both be dedicating ourselves to working on building a new relationship. They need to see that dedication from you as much as I do.
- we sign a postnup agreeing to terms of divorce if you cheat again
- you show me that you love me and care and desire me. Donít fake it. Iíve had enough of that for the last five years. If you truly do t want to be with me anymore, just go. If you do, show it. I will do the same when Iíve worked thru the pain your infidelity has caused me.
- you write me a letter of apology and tell me what it means to you to have me stay and work on the relationship

Wife, from how you have acted towards me and what you have said to me since I discovered your cheating, I donít believe you have it in you to do any of these things. Thatís your choice. You get to find your path to happiness and I get to find mine.

Therefore, until I see you firmly down the path of taking the actions I outlined above and more, I will be moving on. I dont want to fight you, and if you are going to continue to lead a separate life cheating on me, I think it is best that I make it legal for you so you can stop hurting me directly every time you want to have another man tie you up and sexually contact you.

Therefore I will be filing for divorce this week. We can tell the kids next weekend and all start getting on with our lives.

I am sad it has come to this but I see no other path where I can find a happy life again. Living a lie with you stepping out on me and me getting angry is not that recipe to find contentment and satisfaction.

I donít expect a response to this note and if you decide you want to change your path in my direction, the outline of actions above is your gps to get there.

I wish you well in finding what you are looking for.
BSH

And then stop talking to her. Stop tracking her. Just get on the path with your lawyer and find your IC. Seriously, file this week. The proceedings can be put on hold at any time if she does serious work. You and I both know she wonít. She loves her life of bacchanal right now. Let her go. Find your own path.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 8:21 AM, July 1st (Wednesday)]

ChamomileTea posted 6/28/2020 12:18 PM

Ugh... you're right. That was a shit show. It would have been EASY for your STBX to have you put out of the home on a bogus D/V, you realize that don't you?

I don't think your mother was in any way siding with your STBX, and I don't think your STBX wanted to see you carted off to jail either, otherwise, she'd have called the cops instead of your mother. Because honestly man, she had you. If she had called the cops, the least of it would have been them ordering you out of the house for the night. You had a couple of drinks in you, you had put in writing that you wanted her out of the house, and you put your hands on her. We recommend that BH's wear a VAR to keep a recording of events, but WS's can do the same, and if she had, the "oh, you think you can take me" stuff would have worked in her favor.

As hard as it is, and as unfair as it is... the law doesn't care about cheating. Cops don't care who did what or how you feel about it. All they see is large man threatening smaller woman... even when that's not the actual case. Further, for as long as you two are joint owners of the home, you can't even run her co-conspirators off.

Typically, it's good to stay in the home until you have a settlement agreement. That way, you're not seen as abandoning it. But that advice only holds if you can keep from engaging your STBX. It's better to go stay somewhere else than it is to allow yourself to be baited into a false D/V. So, if that's where you are, talk to your attorney and make the safest choice.

One last word about the drinks you had.. I don't want you to think that I'm beating you up, because Lord knows we ALL understand what you're feeling. But it's better to get a little medication from your doctor than it is to self-medicate with alcohol right now. I stayed off the sauce for the entire first year, because really, it makes things worse. You have to imagine the amygdala of the brain on high alert and blinking like a strobe light. This is your fight, flight, freeze mechanism. And it's not all that's going on inside, the entire limbic structure is involved as is the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. Your body's chemical balance is thrown out of whack. The last thing you need is to add any alcohol to that. At best, you'll have a 2x anxiety rebound the next day, and at worst, you'll say or do something you hadn't intended. Your life needs to be sooooo intentional right now, your words and actions carefully measured.

Like I said earlier... we all know this pain. And we got through it. You will too. It's a temporary state of being and the pain is finite. Life does get better. Believe it.

Strength and healing to you.

ShutterHappy posted 6/28/2020 13:19 PM

You really have to find a way to stay away from your STBXWW. For your own sake.

Let her go explore the animal kingdom with Simba and all. She is no longer your problem. Focus on whatís best for you and your kids.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 9:24 PM, June 28th (Sunday)]

Buster123 posted 6/28/2020 15:46 PM

We both ended up speaking with the boys in a not so good way. Her version was "I made a mistake". My version was a man doesn't put up with this kind of behavior from anyone. I wanted this to happen differently.

So she admitted to the A right ? did she specifically say she was seeing someone else to you or the children ? I know you already know she's cheating but did she actually say it and gave you more details about the A ? The VAR (as usual) is already proving to be an invaluable source of info, you now have POSOM's first name, keep it in her car, I agree you may need another one to carry with you.

Bigger posted 6/28/2020 20:21 PM

BSHusbandWI

That confrontation last night could have ended ugly.
Your wife could easily have called the cops.
>You refuse her entry/residence in her legal abode.
>Physical escalation
>Physical and loud vocal confrontation with minors in the house.
>Alcohol on your breathÖ


Man, I would have you out of there in cuffs within 10 minutes of arriving.
You would spend 24 hours in a cell, and when you get out the WW would have a restraining order and a permit to change the locks. Plus, you would have a hard time convincing a judge that you were the ideal parent for prime custody.

YOU WERE LUCKY!!!

DO NOT PLAN YOUR FUTURE ON LUCK!!!

I have been consistent in my advice: If you want to D then focus on D stuff. If you want to R, then Stevesn wrote you a pretty good template for what to do. Itís a more elaborate wording with bells and whistles to what I suggested on page 2.

rambler posted 6/28/2020 21:44 PM

Bigger is correct. Please listen to him. You can loose everything.

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