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BSHusbandWI posted 6/22/2020 16:55 PM

I'm sure that I am going to ramble, not put things in order and that at least this initial post is going to be a mess.

For a long time, I dunno maybe 6-9 months my wife (early 50's and me too) started hanging with a new younger female friend at work quite a bit. They would go out and stay out even on week nights (they both are in the medical field and have strange 2nd and 3rd shift schedules). Sometimes we (me and my 2 high school age boys) knew that she was going to be out, but not often when she might be back and there were many times when the boys would ask me where Mom was and I had to say I did not know. She would just up and leave.

As this drastic change in behavior started, I talked to her about it and she got a bit defensive that... Her friend is fun, they have a great time together and she has a right to go hang out with friends. I told her yes, she does and I reminded her that I encouraged her to spend time with friends over our 20+ year marriage. I think it's important for both of us to be balanced, to be better spouses and better parents. BUT she had to admit that her behavior is a complete 180. Totally different and so I brought it up. That one conversation became nearly a chant over the months that I'm always questioning her and making her feel bad for going out. I would ask when she'd be home and what they did (usually the next day). And she usually got aggressive and said that I'm being overbearing - trying to make me feel like I shouldn't be asking. Trips to the grocery or clothes store or other errands felt like they took way longer than they should have. It didn't feel right, but I thought maybe I'm being paranoid.

Deep down, I knew something was up for quite awhile, but I guess I was afraid to face that reality.

Backdrop - our sex life has been non existent for a long time (years). Quite a long time ago, she essentially turned into a prude and that any sexual comment or advance was met with disdain and disgust.

So, I continued to get more and more paranoid. On May 20, my son needed some cash to go with his friends to eat at a fast food place. I didn't have any so I looked in my wife's purse. I found a Hilton hotel card - room 312. My heart raced. My mind was frantically trying to go through all the scenarios that would make this hotel room key not what I knew it was. She works local. No need to travel for work like I did. To find a hotel key in any of my bags or office would be expected. Not for her. I thought, well maybe her and her girlfriends got a hotel to be safe after a night of drinking so no one drove or maybe they got a room for a girls night out and who knows even hired a male stripper. I would have heard something about that in some way shape or form. So, no. She's cheating on me. I did not know what to do. Multiple times each day, I would re-check her wallet and find that same key there. Why the fuck would she keep that? I wondered if maybe it was paid for for a few days so she would have a place to meet him (her?). Then a few days later the card is not in her wallet. I keep checking and two days after that - May 24 - I see the key.... Wait, no... It is a NEW key! Room 316. I now felt like I needed to take action. I took a picture of the key in her wallet.

A key doesn't technically PROVE anything. Kinda a smoking gun. So, I had to know. I had to have more proof. I did call two of my best friends and told them about it. I just had to talk to someone! During all of this time and for quite some time she was rather hostile toward me for no good reasons and always making something simple I said out to be some bad/evil intention on my part, even when that was the furthest thing from my mind. She was just mostly always very angry at me.

In looking for more proof, I made up a story (details are unimportant) to get access to the cell account (that was in her name and all of our phones were on). I downloaded phone and text logs (just the kind that said a text was sent at this time from one number to another - the same with phone calls). I started researching the numbers to try to identify them. I knew mine, the kids, my mom's her sisters. And there were a few numbers I didn't recognize. I paid for Spokeo to look up a number, but it came up blank in terms of person information - a burner maybe? Was this the number?. There were a lot of texts back and forth for that number including pictures. It could be her new girlfriend.

I would search through her stuff when she went to work to see if I could find other incriminating evidence. I found a grocery bag tied up and stuffed in her drawer. In it, black thigh high lacy stockings, a garter belt, thong underwear, flavored lube, a tube of astroglide, bondage rope and restraints. I have never seen any of these items before. I put them back.

So many emotions at this point. I mentioned that she was very prudish and dismissive sexually to me and now I find this?!?! I was fucking crazy out of my mind. One of MY fantasies is (was) to tie her up, make her cum again and again. And now this is here? Not intended for me at all. The rope was new and so were the restraints. I was also enraged because she spent MY fucking money on that. WTF?!?!?

So, i'm keeping this secret that I know and it's killing me. I still don't REALLY have proof, but I knew. I logged on the to cell account and found out that I could actually see the texts - not just the log of numbers, but the actual texts themselves. I started searching through them and saw the filthy, flirty, texts between my wife and this "handsome" guy according to one text she sent him. I downloaded 3 months of texts back to February. (the fartherest the cell company keeps them - even if you delete them from your phone).

I couldn't believe what I was reading. So hurtful. So damaging to me, my ego. Things like, "I want to taste you again" (from my wife to him). I can't type the other more graphic ones. They both sent pictures, and then you'd see a response on how they each want more of "that"
or want to slurp that up. There was proof of them texting to meet up "I'm here... where are you?) Each entry was time and date stamped. You could see that the texts stopped once they found one another at a meeting place and then there was sexting on how hot it was hours later. PROOF. Incredibly painful truth. My heart is racing now as I type this.

I keep talking to my friend and he's like when are you going to confront her? I didn't know. I couldn't do it in front of the kids. He said this is tearing you apart. How long can you go on like this?

I decide to confront her. I was just standing there staring at her. She says "What?" kinda snotty. I take a deep breath and say I know you've been cheating on me. I know about the meet ups and the hotels. She says, "Yeah". with a bit of a frog and surprise in her throat. "How do you know?" I said, "I know". She says, "yes, but how do you know, i want to know how you know". I could not contain my rage, I just screamed "YOU'VE LOST YOUR RIGHT TO KNOW ANYTHING!"

A lot of the rest of that initial confrontation is a blur. She later told me I told her to get out and leave that I cant be in the same place as her. She did leave. And called later crying and saying how sorry she was. I wasn't in much of a frame of mind to hear any of that. We had one very tough conversation and through that she admitted to having sex with him "only" three times and it was just sex. She doesn't love him or care for him - doesn't want him to leave his wife. - it was just sex. Almost like it was no big deal. And She didn't divulge much. I still didn't tell her I had 3 months worth of texts. She just wasn't being honest. Because those texts tell a different story of familiarity and playfulness and intimacy.

We did go on a car ride to get away from the kids (not sure when this happened), but we yelled and screamed and then I just started asking questions. What I got out of that was that her new (single, sub 30 years old) girlfriend from work that she was spending so much time with and late into the night often, was on Tinder for some time. My wife's girlfriend posted a pic on Instagram of them "cheers-ing" a drink. The story goes that some dude that the girlfriend matched with saw the pic and showed up to say hi. They all hung out and at the end of that get together, they all exchanged numbers - yes, my wife too. I don't know how long ago that was. During that car ride I asked for what happened after the number exchange. Very reluctant to tell me anything. I was getting more and more angry. I asked if they met up at a later date. yes- at some bar. so he was hitting on her (and she should not have even fucking been there). I asked if they kissed in the bar, outside the bar, in his car? our car? Did she suck his dick? He finger her that first night?? No answers. Those questions shut her down. I did get clarity if he wore a condom. She said my question was rude. I said, "Really? - No it's not." She said that he did wear a condom. Through all this conversation and others, she just minimized the depth and details of what happened. Remember, I had three months of texts between them that she didn't know I had.

As we continued to talk and cry and get angry etc. across multiple conversations, She said she can't live with me watching her every move and her checking in, so i could be sure she was being faithful. She said she blocked his number (a week or so ago), but wont prove that to me. We got in an argument over her gaining my trust back and she just said she wont give me access to her phone or live like that. I got so angry I stormed off, printed the texts, stapled them and went up to the bathroom where she was getting ready for work and handed them to her. she looked super quick and put down the 7 pages of texts. I kinda yelled, "Read it!" She picked it back up and read some and had nothing to say. After she got off work she went out on some "normal" errand and i get a text on my phone that says I was removed from the cell account. So, she saw I busted her and completely cut me off, so i could not even see the log of the calls/texts (not the actual texts). I just want to look at those logs to see if there is an exchange between them. She wont provide that. I have said that then I cannot trust her and if it were reversed, she would feel the same. I'm also not fucking stupid. She is still in contact with him. If she wasn't then she would just show me.

Since I dropped the texts on her, I have also sent her links to videos and articles about healing after infidelity. Ones that do a way better job than I could of explaining my need for information. In one of them I said, "I have been waiting for you to be truly honest with me. I hope you can do that."

She's been very nasty to me and I'm just appalled at that. WTF did I do? If anything, I should be the one that is angry all the time (and I am), but just not with the normal things regarding the kids and continuing to run the household like she is being. She's just venomous to me most of the time.

She agreed to find a therapist for us to go see, but did not follow through on that because I A-bombed her with the texts. So I found a therapist, not knowing if she will come with me. If not, then at least I can get some professional advice and counseling. The therapist recommend that I invite her - in a loving way to go to therapy. She was not interested in speaking with me much at all, so I sent an e-mail... It is below:

I know you don't want to talk to me. We're both not in a good place right now. I honestly do not want either of us to feel like we do. My anger, sadness, shame, and feeling worthless is getting in the way of my expressing my love for you, but I do love you.

Because I know I don't communicate well with you and I am not a good listener, I'm sending this e-mail.

I would like us to at least unpack our feelings so we can move forward. I found a therapist. He was the only one I found that has a specialty in marriages and infidelity. I looked at over 50 therapists in our area. His name is... <blah and link to his website>

Please take some time to check him out, to determine if you might be willing to call him. You then could ask some questions to see if he might be the person we could meet with together and separately.

I did call him for about 4 minutes or so. I told him my name and asked about his experience. Then I just said that we are not in a good place with a little bit of info. He seemed nice and honestly very balanced. He said, "You both got to where you were, as many couples do, likely by moving apart and not taking action to come back together" or something like that.

Anyway, maybe you would be willing to try to heal together.

Take some time and maybe sometime next week, you can let me know if that's possible. I don't want to hurt you and I don't want to be hurt, but I think to heal we're both going to have to relive some pain. Not only about cheating, but about how we worked together (or too often doing a bad job of working together) as a married couple.

Thanks for reading.


So here I am today, she has agreed to see the therapist, but has said that she knows how it's going to go... she's the bad person that did the terrible thing and that I have no responsibility for what happened (that was said sarcastically and with angst) - I told her I am not responsible for what happened and I will not take responsibility for her actions. She walked away as I was saying this - just dismissing me.

This was very hard to write and there is a whole ton of things left out.

I'm not sure what I'm expecting to get out of posting this, but I'm going to post it. I still have so many unanswered questions and feel like a shell of myself. The friend that I talked to said, that this is the first time he's ever heard me doubt myself or talk bad about myself and that this has really "done a number on me" That was shocking to hear from a close friend of 20+ years, but he's right.

fareast posted 6/22/2020 18:12 PM

Sorry you are here. You will receive good support. There are some pressing issues here. Get tested for STDs ASAP. See an attorney to learn your rights.

[This message edited by fareast at 9:29 PM, June 26th (Friday)]

Buffer posted 6/22/2020 18:25 PM

Brother, so sorry you are in this shit show

Get tested for STDs and STIs, they didnít practice safe sex. Cheaters lie and they do it a lot. She is angered at you because you care. In her mind she was justified in doing her conscious actions cause you didnít care.
To save a relationship you have to be prepared to loose it. Shine a light on her infidelity tell all, your friends and family. Regarding the children tell them mum has left the relationship but not the nitty gritty stuff (unsure of their age or maturity). Seek legal advice ASAP and from now in carry a VAR I donít trust her or her toxic friend, they make false claims against you. You need to expose the A to the OMís wife. She has the right to know she has been put at risk. You donít need your WW permission to do this. Get her out of your bedroom she can sleep on the couch. Start a hard 180, talk to her about the children and the home. Let her know of your distrust due to her actions. It wasnít a mistake, she chose this. She is selfish!
There is a lot to take in, just breath, try to eat healthy, drink water and some sort of exercise. Separate finances now, she pays half of every thing.
Make no long term relationship decisions in anger take your time regarding this.
One day at a time

Buster123 posted 6/22/2020 18:51 PM

I'm sorry that you're here, now back to the issue at hand, based on what you posted your WW is not even light years away from being R material, in fact she's still in an ACTIVE A, she refuses transparency and access to her phone simply because she doesn't want you to monitor her communication with OM (s?), she may even be on Tinder herself who knows, but right now you simply don't have ANYTHING to work with, like fareast said, you're doing the "Pick me dance", it NEVER works, it's often said here on SI that "you have to be willing to lose your M in order to save it", so here are some of the basics:

1) EXPOSE her A with ALL family and close friends and specially with OBS (Other Betrayed Spouse) without warning (very important), she said the OM is married, exposure will typically have OM dump your WW and throw her under the bus in an effort to save his own M, it also replaces the "beautiful, magic, and exciting" aspect of the A and replaces it with ugliness and pure shame, don't forge to have her apologize to your children for her huge betrayal, they were betrayed as well, NOTHING kills an A faster than full EXPOSURE, do it tonight without warning, start with her parents and siblings and of course your children, they're not stupid and know something's very wrong.

2) Demand she gets tested for STDs (you should too), full panel, yes she's been playing russian roulette with your health (during a pandemic no less), if you read here long enough you will find that they typically only use condoms maybe the first few times, plus some STDs could be transmitted via saliva.

3) Tell her she's got 10 seconds to send OM an NC FOREVER text right in front of you (watch her send it), short and to the point (no sweet goodbyes). Also the cheerleader friend has to go too, she's not a friend of the M, anyone who encouraged, enabled or helped her cover the A needs to go.

4) She needs to offer FULL on demand access to her phone and all electronic devices and passwords, FOREVER, no questions asked, there's no such a thing as "my privacy" in a M, except for toilet time, once you tie the knot it becomes "our privacy". Again, tell her she's got 10 seconds to hand you her unlocked phone.

5) Demand she writes a complete timeline of the A and have her read it to you, subject to a polygraph.

6) Demand a polygraph. You mentioned you've had a dead bedroom for years but as you can see it wasn't for lack of desire, so this may not be her first rodeo and there could have been more OMs over the years, a polygraph could help with that, often times you get what we call a "parking lot confession" right before the test, if so, still go through with it.

7) Consult a D attorney to know your legal options, also ask him about a postnup in your favor (no alimony/she doesn't touch your retirement). Overcoming infidelity typically takes 2-5 years under the best of circumstances with a fully remorseful WW doing all the work, right now you simply don't have that, in fact she's light years away from being a good candidate for R, she's still in an active A.

8) Forget MC, at this stage it's a waste of time while she's still cheating on you and not being honest and transparent, she will need intense IC first to find out her "whys", why she gave herself permission to cheat and say "it's just sex" like it's not a big deal.

Others will chime in with more advice, but let me tell you right now, if she refuses to do any of the above mentioned suggestions that have stood the test of time here on SI and other websites, just file for D and have her served without warning, if full exposure and D papers don't shock her back to reality, then nothing will, if so let D run its course and get out of infidelity, you deserve so much better than a proven cheater and a liar.

Buster123 posted 6/22/2020 18:54 PM

Every case is different but cheaters typically follow a similar script and based on what you posted your WW is acting like a very common run of the mill unremorseful WW, keep posting frequently, you're in the fight of your life, the collective wisdom of SI could help you go through this difficult situation, we've literally seen it play out THOUSANDS of times here and other websites, just look at your member number.

This0is0Fine posted 6/22/2020 18:58 PM

Sorry you're here.

You do need to focus on yourself, heal and get out of infidelity.

If you want to reconcile, that's up to you.

You'll need complete open willing disclosure from your WW. No contact with the AP (watch her send the NC letter. Access to emails, devices, locations.

Personally, it doesn't seem like your marriage was great prior to the affair...

You'll get through this.

BSHusbandWI posted 6/22/2020 19:10 PM

I'm surprised to hear not to go to MC. It's tomorrow. My thought is to go there and make my demands heard.

Then proceed with all the advice.

I'm so confused. And my kids are 16 and 18. I don't know the words to tell them. It will mess them up.

MaggieNow1960 posted 6/22/2020 19:12 PM

BSHusband, so sorry you found yourself needing to join this group but glad you're getting good advice. As your read here more you'll see that most of our stories are really very similiar so we really know what you're going through and the things that may happen as time passes. Cheaters say pretty much the same things , have the same attitudes and behaviors. They blame shift and they try to avoid taking any responsibility for what they've done. But those that are good R material will want to do anything to help you and the marriage heal. Right now your WS should have no voice in what happens. You're running the show now and she either does what you need her to do or you can serve her with D papers. (Only if you're willing to follow through). If serving her doesn't change her attitude and her efforts likely nothing will. As others have can't "nice her back". That only serve to make the OP more attractive to her. Please post often and take care of yourself.

fareast posted 6/22/2020 19:18 PM

The goal of MC is to repair the M. As long as your WW is actively cheating and without remorse you donít have a M. The problem is your Wís cheating. You have nothing to do with her decision to cheat.

[This message edited by fareast at 9:30 PM, June 26th (Friday)]

HellFire posted 6/22/2020 19:19 PM

Not all marriage therapists handle infidelity correctly.

Many advocate rugsweeping. Many don't believe in transparency. Many will tell you your questions aren't necessary. Many blame the BS.

A bad MC, with an unremorseful WS, is a shitshow.

Do not tell your wife you are contacting his wife. He will tell his wife you are abusive, crazy, and dangerous. So by the time you speak to his wife, she won't listen.

Get your evidence together, and send it to his wife,through the post office, registered mail, that requires her..and only her...signature.

nekonamida posted 6/22/2020 19:25 PM

Since I dropped the texts on her, I have also sent her links to videos and articles about healing after infidelity.

STOP! She is still with her boyfriend. Any talk of healing right now is a waste of time unless of course you're okay with continuing to share her.

So here I am today, she has agreed to see the therapist, but has said that she knows how it's going to go... she's the bad person that did the terrible thing and that I have no responsibility for what happened (that was said sarcastically and with angst)

Yes, actually and it's entirely true. She's also still a bad person for continuing the A and pretending she's not. No proof of NC with OM always means that the A continues.

If you're not okay with your WW having a boyfriend, cancel MC and see a lawyer. MC is a waste of time and money. Plus your WW has already made it clear she's not going if the A is addressed and she is held accountable for it. She is giving you NOTHING to work with so stop waiting around for her to get it. Stop initiating conversations about the A. Stop sending her stuff about healing and R. Check out the 180 in the healing library and follow it. Get some space from her. Prepare yourself to demand she drop OM and give you access to her devices, phone Bill's, and accounts or you will be filing for D.

Do you know who OM is? Does he have a wife or girlfriend you can tell?

BSHusbandWI posted 6/22/2020 19:26 PM

I do not know who he is or where he lives, so while I want to talk to his wife our let her know, I don't have the information I need to do that.

Should I just tell the MC that I will not be going to the appointment? What about my wife? We were going to take separate cars. Should I just not show up?

josiep posted 6/22/2020 19:36 PM

The reason most of us don't recommend marriage counseling is there's no problem with your marriage as such. The problem is your WW who has no morals, no ethics, no empathy and no soul.

The MC might be able to help you lay out your demands/requirements for reconciliation but until you're healed a bit, you don't really know if you want to reconcile or how you want it to go. Right now you're in such extreme distress and pain, you just want your life to go back to when it was happy.

And I do have one more thing to toss out for your consideration and I hope it's not too blunt. But when you and your WW were talking, did she ever tell you how much she loves you and wants to stay married, spend the rest of her life with you? Or is she sort of just going along with things? Unless she's on her knees begging you to forgive her, I wouldn't trust her for one second. You already know she's an accomplished liar so please keep that in mind during your conversations and especially with the counselor.

My heart goes out to you. This is a terrible trauma and it won't get better overnight. Take care of yourself.

BSHusbandWI posted 6/22/2020 19:37 PM

Also, I'm unemployed right now, but before March I made almost more than double than her.

We haven't saved a lot and I have a two friends who were bled dry by lawyers. So I want to see if we can draft up an agreement and just pay a lawyer to "legalize" our agreements and file the paperwork.

I dont think she wants to work on our marriage, whch is why she might agree to just getting out. I'm in Wisconsin, which is a no fault state.

the reason i've been trying to talk to her and get her to talk is because I feel like I need answers to figure this out.

fareast posted 6/22/2020 19:40 PM

I can see that you are struggling mightily, confused and still in shock. Take a deep breath. Your WW has a boyfriend. The only worse thing than losing your M, is to have to share her with another man.

[This message edited by fareast at 9:31 PM, June 26th (Friday)]

Buster123 posted 6/22/2020 19:52 PM

I do not know who he is or where he lives, so while I want to talk to his wife our let her know, I don't have the information I need to do that.

You have his phone number, you will be surprised with how quickly you can find info with just that, if that fails you may even hire a PI if you can afford one, shouldn't be that difficult to have her/him followed and get a license plate number or just follow him home, but again, start exposure with the family first and watch how the dynamic where she is in control starts to change in your favor, btw if she was remorseful she should voluntarily give you the OM's info, she KNOWS who he is and where he lives, again if she insists on protecting him at your expense, just stop trying to make her "get it", she knows she has a boyfriend, she knows she's cheating, just file for D and have her served, D takes a long time and can be stopped if she comes around, ends her A and agrees to do the heavylifting to restore the M she destroyed, otherwise, let D run its course and get out of infidelity.

I'm so confused. And my kids are 16 and 18. I don't know the words to tell them. It will mess them up.

Tell them you're having problems with your WW because "mommy has betrayed the family, she has decided to have a boyfriend on the side and refuses to give him up and going out".EXPOSE her with the immediate family TONIGHT, start with both set of parents (her parents will most likely contact her immediately), tell them you need their support during this difficult situation and that you are worried your WW has put the family and the children's stability at risk, don't worry about your WW's reaction, it's a sign she's losing control, remember this was supposed to be a secret, you were in the same M but didn't cheat (see the difference), it's your life too so you have the right to tell.

Buster123 posted 6/22/2020 20:03 PM

We haven't saved a lot and I have a two friends who were bled dry by lawyers. So I want to see if we can draft up an agreement and just pay a lawyer to "legalize" our agreements and file the paperwork.

I dont think she wants to work on our marriage, whch is why she might agree to just getting out. I'm in Wisconsin, which is a no fault state.

Listen you're now at war and your WW is the enemy, she obviously does not have your best interest at heart, so save that MC money and use it towards consulting and attorney, tell your WW there's no point in dragging her to the MC, that it's a futile attempt while she has a boyfriend on the side, so call a few attorneys (she may be ahead of you and likely consulted one already), knowledge is power, you can still have an attorney and work towards an amicalbe D if that is what you ultimately (or her) decide to do, right now you're still in shock, I suggest you follow the recommended advice and if it doesn't work or she refuses to do any of it, then proceed with D, remember it take a while, if she comes around before it's final, then and only then should you consider R, or NOT! either way you will be that much closer to getting out of infidelity.

MickeyBill2016 posted 6/22/2020 20:29 PM

I knew a lawyer from the dog park and she did the legal stuff for I think around 3000. She told me where to download the forms and then she would tell us were to fine tune things.
She also acted as the arbitrator as that was required in CA before the papers were filed.
There was no drawn out back and forth as there was just a house and 2 dogs, no kids.
Wife had already checked out before the "we need to talk" came up.
LAter figured out 1 EA ,1 EA/PA with out of town colleague, then full on exit affair with vendor at work, got pregnant. All in a year. Everyone at work (except for her enabler friend Judy) and 5 out of 6 in her family thought she lost her mind. Ever our MC who had known her for 2 years before the break.

TheGuy123 posted 6/22/2020 20:47 PM

From what you have posted so looks like you aren't going any were, and I'm guessing your old lady feels the same way about you.

Keep the appointment but not to save the marraige but to get help in a divorce.

This sound counter productive but trust us....YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO LEAVE THE MARRIAGE TO SAVE THE MARRIAGE!!!!!

Rule #1 never cry or beg for the marriage. Chicks dig confident men so please show your old lady you are confident enough to just let her go.

You want her to start second guessing her choices. You want her to thinks twice in what she is losing. In order to do this you must JUST LET HER GO!

Her current behavior is a clear sign she has the upper hand......change that by LETTING HER GO!

For now the only thing that will save the marriage is if your wife truly believe you are letting her go. If she sees a confident man that is not confused, no longer in love, and completely indifferent to her she just might think twice and second guess her choices.

So please stop rewarding her by doing this pick me dance.

And keep your appointment and the first words out of your mouth should be " we need your help in finding the tools to have a amicable divorce".
Even if she doesn't show up it will be good for you to find some tools to get through this.

For now stop engaging her. No more "I love you". Do not ask her to get involved with family activities. Distance your self. For now put up a wall....a wall that will protect you from her emotional abuse. Through your own actions make it clear she is no longer welcome.
Every time she acts up just calmly ask her to leave if she is not happy. With a smile on your face you can ask her to leave. Show her you are confident enough to just let her go!

Another good rule is to make the affair as inconvenient and uncomfortable as possible to continue. To do this you need to expose it. Remember right now you are trying to save the marriage you are looking for support from family, friends and even her co workerss in the up and coming divorce. Also cutting up hotel key cards and throwing away her sex toys...if she wants all that crap she can keep at her boyfriends house.

I mean come on she is already pissed off all the time any may as well make the affair more inconvenient and uncomfortable by throwing away all her affair crap.

[This message edited by TheGuy123 at 9:17 PM, June 22nd (Monday)]

RealityBlows posted 6/22/2020 21:04 PM

Her therapist sucks. You both did not arrive at infidelity ďtogetherĒ. She did that all by her broken self. Quack therapists are a dime a dozen and can ruin your chances for R or your chances for a clean get away. This line of therapy is extremely specialized. Shop them together and interview them yourself. Some recommend you get an agreement signed that allows you access to therapeutic findings. Itís waaay too premature for marriage counseling. There currently is no marriage. She has decisively and summarily ended that contract. Individual counseling (IC) for her to figure out what predisposed her to these highly destructive, impulsive actions and, to make her a safe partner for you and, to make sure she is not a danger to herself. Youíre going to need IC for you for the obvious reasons youíre acutely experiencing at the moment and down the road.

In the previous comments you should be seeing a checklist of sorts beginning to form. This is standard crowd sourced wisdom that has evolved from literally thousands of others who have come before you, been through very similar experiences, and has consistently stood the test of infidelity and all itís manifestations which-for the most part, follows predictable patterns which, we joke, seem to come from a Cheaterís Playbook of sorts.

Because the modiís operandi of cheating is so predictable-once discovered, it gives you the advantage of taking control and staying one step ahead of your WS. Taking control of your situation is the absolute first thing you must do. I want emphasize that you take control of YOUR situation, not hers.

You control your situation by invoking conditions you require to ensure your safety:

-Demand immediate NC
-Demand confirmation of NC
-Demand continued verification of NC (Full Transparency)
-Demand an STD test.
-Consult an attorney and have D papers drawn up. Pin them to the bedroom ceiling where they will stay until she meets all your conditions. Then move them to a drawer once R is underway, then move them to file folder labeled ďFalse R ContingencyĒ, then shred them after two years.
-Get rid of conspiring friends. Friends of the marriage only
-Demand full disclosure to your satisfaction.
-Demand full marital boundaries.
-IC from a qualified therapist
-Notify the other BS. YOU do it. Donít tell your WS youíre doing it. This helps ensure NC, helps you collect intel and compare notes AND, most importantly, gives the other BS information she is absolutely entitled to for her welfare, health and safety.
-Donít allow yourself to be manipulated, blamed or shamed.
-Donít be a doormat.
-Donít be gaslighted.
-Donít let your love for her compromise you.

You, taking control, will show her self dignity, self respect, decisiveness, strength, and composure. These are very attractive qualities and the only traits a cheater respects.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 9:55 PM, June 22nd (Monday)]

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