"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

Voorhees5 posted 4/17/2020 15:03 PM

Hello Everyone,

I am new here and actually found it thanks to my wife who I betrayed, disrespected and violated. Ever since I was caught I started going to therapy and a big part of becoming a better person is being open. I am posting this as a chance to get this off my chest and be open to what I have done. This is probably be long so I am going to break it up in sections for easier digestion.

WHAT I DID:

My wife and I have been together for 15 years. Every woman I have ever had sex with I felt instant discount and disgust after climax and wanted no parts of affection or care expect for her. That is how I knew she was the one. After the birth of our second child, her best friend approached me online looking for someone to talk to lonely at home with her newborn. She asked that we not tell our spouses as her husband is insanely jealous. The biggest mistake of my life started there. Overtime I saw her clearly pushing the envelope and I made took the bait. Over the next few years we would meet a hand full of times random places in the car for intercourse at first but then oral sex only. She made it known that she had feelings and wanted me to leave to start a life with her. I did not want this and had no emotions toward her. I had the same disgust, shame and disconnect throughout our conversations and interactions. I lied to her about having feelings and talked down disrespectfully about my wife and our relationship to keep the door open. The interactions we had were abnormal sexually as well as I was extremely forceful and physical. There were a few times I thought I had injured her yet no matter what I did or asked for she was ok and willing. The couple actual sex meetings I could hardly orgasm which led to her going to only oral after. I was not even attracted to her yet kept it going. After each interaction the shame and disgust would have me distance myself yet I never could remove myself completely. As this went on over the years she realized I was not leaving and asked if I ever would. I said no and that was when she decided to stop all things physical. For the next 4 or 5 years we continued to talk but nothing physical. Checking emails daily became more or a task that I didn't think about more than wanting to actually talk to her and conversations were robotic, dry and repetitive. I would continue to ask to meet with her during this time during times I knew it would not be possible. Yet I still emailed, talked, asked and did not stop, looking back without knowing why.

During this time very early on I had sex with a stripper during a bachelor party. Recently another of her friends had opened a door I went looking in and talked to her which lead to receiving nude pictures. When I asked if her I could have sex with her she said yes and I finally did what I wish I could have done all alone to the other. I stopped! I stopped messaging, talking inappropriate and even being friendly. I had the power to do it! But, it did not matter...

My wife had hired a private investigator who was able to pull up deleted emails over the past several years along with pictures exchanged and she confronted me on them. There was no more room to lie but I was happy. I let it all out and told her everything. I started going to therapy and found that I have never been open to anyone ever and this is a starting point to be a better person. So I told her about the stripper and the friend that I stopped with.

The two awful parts that stick out were one time when my wife found us talking and I lied my way out of it instead of admitting or just stopping. There were a few times over the years my wife asked, pleaded, cried and no matter how much I wanted to say everything I opened my mouth and lied out of fear again and again. This was also her best friend. So now she has lost what she thought I was and her best friend from childhood as well. Two deaths in one. And, maybe worse of all, I never stopped talking to her. With no emotions, connections or enjoyments, why didn't I stop. I may have found a few reasons from therapy but it still doesn't make me or my wife feel better.

I have memory issues which I actually have an appointment for next month to see if there are deeper issues or conditions at play. This causes problems because during her search for answers many of such due to the amount of time, or them being lies so didn't care to remember, infuriates her that I don't remember.

WHAT I HAVE LEARNED:

I learned that I have extreme self love issues. Due to a troubled trauma filled childhood and issues with parent abandonment I do not love or even like myself. I feel like no one does and if they do I do not deserve it. I was brought up alone isolated and constantly shamed. Also throughout my life everyone I love or friendships close to me leave me. Again, constantly feeling alone. I have impulse and addictive issues. I have had gambling issues and trouble. Excessive impulse spendings episodes. I am also addicted to porn and sex. I have watched porn since middle school and masturbated daily since around the same age without orgasming (to young physically). I have issues with my mother and how I was raised along with the abandonment of my father. I self pity a lot and battle with depression.

I learned that I love my wife more than ever and cant believe the amount of pain and hurt I caused. I have been able to actually feel emotions, however basic that I have never felt before. These have lifted my life in avenues that I could not imagine. But this also put my self worth which I already have issues with extremely beyond the point of 0. Hearing how awful of a person I am and pain I have cause in much worse hurtful and painful ways daily brings me to a level of depression I am not sure I have felt before. I cant see myself with or wanting anyone else other than my wife and I cant put into words how remorseful I am every breathe I take.

MY CURRENT SITUATION:

I am going to therapy twice a week sometimes three as I have started seeing on specifically for sex addiction topics. I have been working nonstop with my wife through trying to work things out. She is on a constant roller coaster of emotions, highs, lows, triggers, etc. I due to my nature am an extremist. Her high one day will have me on cloud nine thinking of how happy we are and are going to be ok just to be blindsided about to fall asleep at how she cant do it, hates me, wish never met me etc until almost 4am to have it go back to ok the next morning. But by this time I am depressed and in a low place for the self mental hate I had just experienced. This ride is such a mental exercise that I now am on two different emotional rides at the same time that I feel like I can't control. There are times where I feel like I can't breathe. I keep telling my wife that she can put me through anything I deserve it and I keep telling myself that. Sometimes are easier than others and the world coming to an end and being together quarantined when happy is amazing but when not even more painful and hurtful things to be said.

I have started reading a number of helpful things here already but still wanted to open up about my story and share. Thank you all for listening/reading. I appreciate and all feedback or guidance.

[This message edited by Voorhees5 at 4:32 PM, April 17th (Friday)]

Voorhees5 posted 4/17/2020 16:18 PM

What does the stop sign mean next to my title?

pinkpggy posted 4/17/2020 16:22 PM

It means betrayed spouses can't reply. You can ask for it to be removed.

How long has it been since your affairs were discovered?

Voorhees5 posted 4/17/2020 16:35 PM

pinkpggy - who do I request this from?

It has been a few months.

sorryforeverythi posted 4/17/2020 19:13 PM

WS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:00 PM, April 17th (Friday)]

Voorhees5 posted 4/17/2020 19:30 PM

Sorryforeverything: Thank you I got the same feedback privately. I will leave it for now especially with everything so new. I appreciate it.

Justsomelady posted 4/17/2020 20:03 PM

Not sure where to begin...this is some serious conspiring against your wife with her friend (and also the random people) and taking pleasure in duping her. I feel there is something almost violent about this level of deception and double betrayal.

Why do you think you did you do this to her? Why do you do these things to yourself? Do you have other self destructive behaviors? Something about this makes me think of the Madonna/whore complex some men can have...especially the way you treated OW.

What are you reading? You should get how to help your spouse heal and not just friends - two great books. Read through the healing library. Keep up with IC.
You should research postnuptial agreements, contact an attorney to discuss those, and offer one to your wife. I have to say it will be a miracle if she can get over all this.

Glad you’re here though. I just don’t know what to say at the moment beyond those initial thoughts. It’s such a severe thing to do.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 8:04 PM, April 17th (Friday)]

Voorhees5 posted 4/17/2020 20:25 PM

Justsomelady: some of the words used like conspiring, pleasure in duping, etc I feel is inaccurate. I never thought of the person it was and how it was connected. I was more distracted at the easy sexual acts thrown at me. I take full responsibility for my action which is why I did not go in detail about her friend but her friend drove most of the actions for example where to talk how to hide it where to met what to say if asked etc also she had done this with numerous other married men before me which I did not know at the time. I made awful decisions but It was not planned out as a vicious violent act as your words described. It may sound unbelievable but I just never connected the two or how things would be affected. We would do things as families together all the time and I never wanted to be around her I would ask to do our own family things not invite them etc. it was as if it were two separate people. One in person and one in words. One a real person and another just there for sexual acts.

Yes I have other self destructive behaviors which therapy has helped identify I do to myself. Gambling. Impulsive spending. Porn/sex addiction etc. I believe she said “I do things knowing there is not a good outcome.” Something about growing up being shamed and feeling and doing things to keep myself there. My wife thinks these discoveries are all bullshit and excuses although I never use any of them as such. More as understanding how my past affects my present is how I try to look at it.

I was reading a book I believe it’s called recovering from cheating or a good guy who made bad decisions and how to recover. Love languages. And still reading the pinned material posted in this forum which is amazing so far.

I have never heard of the Madonna/whore thing but I will have to google unless you have additional info/links. My last session we discovered some past things regarding being younger and being belittled about the size of my penis by my mother. Having to show her my penis past an approximate age and even having her take me to the doctor for this just to be told I was normal to just bring a few things up. She touched on how i have grown to more than normal size but this coupled with being introduced to sex/porn at such a young age could have something to do with how I treat the other women and (i can’t think of the exact word) overcompensating for how I felt then compared to now. My therapist always say not to try to worry about pieces things together and as there isn’t always a why but learn from the past to understand the present and work on the future.

I know there is a lot wrong with me and I’ve been through a lot to get me here but i am working on it and have made great strides. It is hard to open up with any of this as i have never been open even to my wife in my life let alone to her now or on here.

I appreciate your honest feedback although I truly hope you are wrong.

JBWD posted 4/17/2020 21:02 PM

Yet I still emailed, talked, asked and did not stop, looking back without knowing why.

This highlights, more than anything, how much more there is for you to work on. You’re talking a lot about things that have been done to you- Your wife uses your words against you, your mother shamed you, this stripper forced nude pictures on you(?)

What your BW needs to know is what you did to her. Memory issues are frequently cited here and almost as frequently debunked. Cheaters are known to choose the easy path, and we’re often known to find convenient excuses to evade walking into full accountability: “I don’t remember” more often than not = “I don’t remember and won’t work to remember because I’m likely to be proven a selfish liar.” So until you can start to find “knowing why” when looking back, you’re lying to yourself and by extension her.

You’re on a very common trajectory here but you’re surrounded by people who have been there done that. We’ll tell you things that you’re not going to believe and discount. I did the same. And within a month I realized that this forum of strangers knew me better than I did.

So stick with it here. Read up. Don’t tell your wife what she does or doesn’t feel/think/understand. You’ve had the “luxury” of knowing all the destructive choices you’ve made- She’s catching up and trying to breathe. Whatever it is that you think is rough for you, a second for her is a million times worse.

You’re going to hear a lot here that you think isn’t you. You’re already telling us “she’s got it all wrong.” Your words are worthless, and will be for a long time. Guess why- Remember above the time she begged you for the truth and you kept the lie going? You’re going to need to learn what lies beneath your terrible choices, and get in the habit of acting consistently in accordance with what you have done that’s GOOD in your life.

It takes time and you’re going to have to balance this with supporting her as best you can.

Buckle up. We’re here for support and a voice of experience. Open ears and a humble mind are a must moving forward. Wishing you strength.

Justsomelady posted 4/17/2020 22:02 PM

I like what JBWD wrote. Take that to heart.

I don’t have a full response at the moment - am just tired- but it looks like you keep blameshifting to other actors, not back to the main one - you. And the violence and delight comment I made - if not true, then why cut so close to her heart, to her closest friendship? To me that is emotionally violent.

Keep reminding yourself of what you said above - about taking full responsibilty. Finding your whys does not mean the same thing as pinning it on other people, you are not a passive actor - you chose this for yourself and your wife. Like it or not, hating yourself it sounds like ,and I’m sorry to hear of that and your traumas - but you did choose this.

You take responsibility now for putting her first. You keep the self exploration going, but your selfish time is over if you want to R. Your needs and wants don’t matter right now. They don’t. This is a crisis, she is bleeding out. Only her needs matter, for now, so keep the focus there and quietly work on yourself and maintain transparency for her, answering all questions as best you can.

As for the whys and the trauma - the shut with your mom is totally messed up and I’m sorry to hear about that. I’m sure it had an impact. It isn’t why you had an affair but it is somewhere in the things that shaped your character and why you felt angry and entitled to do this.

How would you advise your daughter (is you have one) if she was treated by a husband the way you treat her mother.

I will echo what JBWD said about sticking with this. We all have heard things we don’t want to hear and have stuck with it and learned so much from it. Maybe we aren’t always spot on. But keep an open mind. I applaud you if you can stay with this journey and work through this with integrity.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 10:11 PM, April 17th (Friday)]

Voorhees5 posted 4/17/2020 22:19 PM

Thank you both for your comments and honest opinions. I am being open here about what was done and past issues but believe me I don’t do this to my wife. I fear doing so she thinks I am using excuses. She asks me about my therapies and how it went etc And I tell her all the time when telling her, that none of these are excuses. I made the choices I did and I take responsibility no matter what made me who I am I know what is right and wrong and I was dead wrong. I am putting all of her first. The therapy and looking back is helping me do that look back but not in regard to this. In my summary of everything it was more me expressing everything I have learned but again no excuses here and no blame or pointing fingers. I know it is hard to get the full story in posts from someone you don’t know and I am not looking for pity. I’m looking to open up about myself and better myself. I know I have a lot going on and am working on me.

May I ask how many of you were able to rebuild the relationship?

Justsomelady posted 4/18/2020 05:42 AM

I get that you have to provide a clear picture of your background and it is good that you’re not blaming these issues and recognize your choices.

But why did you take issue with my comments before - you made not just deceptive choices - but intensely hurtful ones, the emotional violence of the double betrayal is huge to me. These things you got from all the OW served a psychological purpose for you, even if your enjoyment was dampened ...you did enjoy them. Was it escape? We’re you getting back at your mom somehow by demeaning the OW? By desecrating the M? Or was it just easy access and you were looking for any fix you could get? Even if it is “just” easy access, the level of selfishness in accepting her friends advances and continuing for years is pretty jaw-dropping. The friend was clearly predatory and you didn’t just get caught up in affair feelings and hurt your wife in the process - you accepted someone who was willing and calculating to hurt your wife. Who was in competition with the person you loved and wanted to hurt her and break up your family.

Not that it matters to your thread but to answer your question I am happily reconciled.

I think you need to keep digging in - cheating is selfish, entitled behavior and it comes from an f-Ed up place. But there are plenty of people with traumatic backgrounds who don’t cheat, so what was it that allowed yourself to give permission to transgress like this.

What went through your head when you were with your wife and family before, knowing what you had going on the side?

It’s good your starting to explore your self destructive tendencies and addictive trndencies. Keep digging there.

You did not comment on what I said about a post nup. Even if you R she isn’t going to trust you. She may love you but the trust will take years and years- if ever to come back. You need to make sure she will be ok in a D and help facilitate an agreement that will allow her to walk away taken care of. That will help build trust. Self-sacrificing I think is the only way to make amends in such a damaging type of affair. I recommend getting organized now and offering it to her - after years if cheating she deserves that much. I don’t know if it fits your situation or finances but at least look into it. I don’t think (a post up) fits for all couples in this situation but when this level is betrayal happens I think it is your duty to make amends as much as possible in as many avenues as possible.

Who have you told about thjs? It may make sense to write a letter if apology to her family. What are the kids aware of at this point? They must know something is up with quarantine?

Start into reading how to help your spouse heal, maybe even read it together or right after each other and discuss.

I know it’s hard to do when you’re heart and head are all over the place -but make time to meditate and/or pray, so you can be present with your wife and yourself.

What does bettering yourself and working on yourself look like to you?

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 7:23 AM, April 18th (Saturday)]

Voorhees5 posted 4/18/2020 09:19 AM

Thank you again. I will try and hit on all your points as best I can. The words you used affected me because they seemed so hurtful and calculated as of I knew I was going to do it went after her best friend to hurt her more and kept it going to make it more painful which wasn’t what happened my thoughts or feelings. Reading how you wrote it now I understand more the pain and hurt of it all calculated or not equals that same terrible pain. No matter if purposely or not the level of what was done cause the same terrible sickening pain for her and your response hit my comprehension better. Thank you for that.

How did I fell before leaving to her and returning. Shame and disgust. Same as when I gamble or spend money I don’t have. I always tell people nobody wins at bettings in the long run and mostly ever in short run yet I still do it. Same feeling I get when placing my bet and hours later when I lose it. And the days following shaming myself for being so dumb. Yet I find more money and do it again. Nothing about this ever felt good or enjoyable. I was possibly looking for that rush but in the end was hurting myself.

I have told my close friends. I have told my mother ironically. I would never leave her financially unstable she knows this and we have talked about it legally or not. That’s not ever in the plans.

Bettering myself looks like being able to enjoy life. Being able to fe emotions however basic. I’ve loved robotic emotionally for so long this has made me feel things to the point I haven’t wanted or needed to go searching for it elsewhere especially in destructive places. My kids have even noticed the difference in me which is what melts my heart. As I open up to people from what I learn about myself in therapy they tell me they knew I was like that from childhood which hurts knowing I’ve been messed up so long thinking I was normal. I want to enjoy whatever time left happy and actually being normal and enjoying and feeling my family and life.

Justsomelady posted 4/18/2020 09:37 AM

Shame and disgust. It sounds like you were pretty compulsive about a lot of things. I can identify with a version of the compulsivity in myself, too. It’s hard. I’m sorry for your history of trauma and am glad you’re working with professionals. I don’t have a thought out response at the moment but I want to address the following

I would never leave her financially unstable she knows this and we have talked about it legally or not. That’s not ever in the plans.

Talk is very cheap when you’re a Wayward after dday. You need to put this in writing and get a lawyer involved. Many many people get a very different tune once they start the D process. You need to prove to her she and your children come first no matter the outcome of your M. How can she trust you’re someone she can grow old with and to make critical decisions in her interest medically and whatnot if you proceed with R and don’t prove this to her with a post nup? You’ve only shown a history of past compulsive selfish behavior that endangers her. I know it is born out of your pain and dysfunction you are now working through. But you didn’t come clean to her first so you have to take bold action to prove trust.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 10:04 AM, April 18th (Saturday)]

leavingorbit posted 4/18/2020 09:49 AM

Hi, Voorhees, I’m sorry you’re here. JBWD gave you great advice. You said you’re seeing a CSAT. I suggest printing off this post and asking your therapist about possible disconnects in accountability and boundary setting.

Your childhood seems pretty heavy in trauma. I’m so sorry. That info is not an excuse for your choices but instead an explanation, pieces of the puzzle. I believe it will be beneficial for you to trace how you developed in terms of sex and relationships. It sounds to me that the emotional component of sex is really fractured for you and working with a CSAT could be vital in terms of rewiring your understanding of healthy boundaries.

It also sounds to me like your emotional state is really tied up in things apart from you, like your wife and lots of self soothing in destructive ways. To be truly emotionally healthy and whole, I believe you need to foster your own emotional wellbeing separate from others. This is gonna be hard for you, because it sounds like you’ve been shut off from yourself emotionally for a really long time. Working with IC and good addiction step processing could help. Your wife is going to be in pain. She’s going to be angry. She’s going to struggle. It’s ground zero right now for her and you need to build your oxygen mask. IMO, the sooner you stop looking to her and other external factors to feel better, the sooner you will be able to breathe and possibly support her.

I imagine everything feels surreal right now. I strongly suggest you keep putting in hard work to connect the dots to figure out how you got here and why you kept choosing a path of pain. You can do this- you can choose to be healthy. It may not end up in a reconciled marriage. You will still gain yourself.

Zugzwang posted 4/18/2020 10:24 AM

Just my opinion.

some of the words used like conspiring, pleasure in duping, etc I feel is inaccurate.

It may not be your intentions. It is what happened though. Guilt by association and it is most likely your wife's truth and reality. So, just own it.

A ton of saying these women left doors open. Where is your ownership? Did you leave yourself open to have doors opened? Did you flirt? Did you give them too much of your time and attention for them to open doors. I get you didn't go looking. Yet, you with introspection...you might find you didn't exactly scream off the market either.

Sex..what does it mean for you? For me, I was the same. It is for me...stress release. It was my coping mech for stress. Attention was my fix for self worth. Acts was my fix for self worth. That meant doing things for others. Giving attention back and listening to people bitch about their day or other people.Like my APs. I still had aversion to actually doing things. Like taking out the garbage. Words were easy and hollow. Not a ton of effort. Something my wife never depended on me for. Is your wife independent? Mine is. My mother was very dependent. I married the opposite. I began to feel like I wasn't needed and worthy. So, I was open to women that were like my mother to get my emotional worth. Did you have dynamics like that?

My wife thinks these discoveries are all bullshit and excuses although I never use any of them as such.

She is probably still grappling with whys versus excuses. These are whys. There will never be an excuse. Thing about whys though and looking into FOO issues. We all have them and we all turn out differently. We choose what to incorporate from our FOO into our character. There we can take ownership and there you make it clear these aren't excuses because you chose to be this way regardless of FOO. People have come from worse and have chosen not to hurt or use people. Own that you did and chose to.

I have never heard of the Madonna/whore thing but I will have to google unless you have additional info/links. My last session we discovered some past things regarding being younger and being belittled about the size of my penis by my mother. Having to show her my penis past an approximate age and even having her take me to the doctor for this just to be told I was normal to just bring a few things up. She touched on how i have grown to more than normal size but this coupled with being introduced to sex/porn at such a young age could have something to do with how I treat the other women and (i can’t think of the exact word) overcompensating for how I felt then compared to now. My therapist always say not to try to worry about pieces things together and as there isn’t always a why but learn from the past to understand the present and work on the future.

Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage. WATCH THIS. The man, though Christian (I am not and had to watch these with my wife who is- though very thankful I did) explains imprinting at an early age our first sexual experiences have on us and how we try to get those feelings back because our brain imprints and makes connections to experience/feeling. Extremely insightful. I think every SA should watch these series.

How is your IC helping you with specifically accepting shame and disgust? Are you doing anything to build pride in yourself? Bucket lists and hobbies? You are building yourself back up. You learning how to accept and not let the past define who you will be.

Voorhees5 posted 4/18/2020 15:36 PM

Leavingorbit: thank you for your words. I just started my CsAT and honestly don’t like the connection. My IC said give it a few sessions before trying to make the switch but I think it is time. How I feel about sex with others I know isn’t normal but with my wife completely is. This is a huge factor for me and needs to be addressed. Patience is something I need to work on and understand someone won’t just give me an answer but also use my time wisely. Also your last paragraph was spot on. Thank you for the positive words.

Zugzwang: you touched on something literally spot on that has been said by both my therapist. As a child and being alone my outlet for being alone or when confronted with any emotion was masterbstion and sex. Now that I am older whenever I am stressed or depressed which through much of my adult life I turn to the same actions looking for relief. Knowing that the one seconds of relief happens and then further and pain/shame/disgust yet not removing or changing my habits. Literally spot on as you said. It feels good knowing I’m not the only person feeling with such thoughts and issues. As you could tell from my other posts my relationship with my mother is not close to normal. My wife gives and provides all the love and affection I never had. Together we are amazing although of course ups and downs like most relationships. Looking back I see now My depression conflicts and actions causes a lot of them without even knowing the full tilt of it all.

Currently my IC is working on all of that. She wants me to work on being positive. Good actions energy habits etc to put my time into and self love. What do I love and enjoy other than my family was a questions she asked me and was almost impossible to answer. I have to start working on these and start finding things to put this into so that i can start building myself. She is worried about my self care and bettering it which is the main focus right now. Thank you for sharing this information I can’t wait to search and watch it!!