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They ask why, but don't want the answer.

waywardhotwife posted 2/21/2020 17:20 PM

I read this article today on Psychology Today, titled If You've Been Cheated On, Read This. I liked it, except for all the pronouns. Oh well.

I, being the cheating spouse, wanted to send it on to my hurting husband. He often tells me the reason I cheated is because he is a loser and my affair partner was better in every way. I always tell him I disagree, and that my reasons for cheating weren't because of what kind of man he was or wasn't. I have communicated my thoughts on why I got caught up in an affair, but whenever I do, he does or says something to shut me up right away and doesn't want to hear any part of it. It's like he wants to continue living with his beliefs, and isn't ready to hear what I was feeling or thinking at the time of the affair. It's like how he feels is how it IS, it's black and white, and if that's all he ever wants to discuss, then how can we ever heal? Obviously I'm the one who needs to have grace and patience, so I usually let it go...until next time.

I think if I sent this article to him he will not actually read it and think I'm preaching it to him. So I'm just going to share it here. Hopefully I can convey this to him in some other productive way.

I just want him to heal. What we're doing isn't working.

Here's what the article read:

"Most people see infidelity as the greatest betrayal. I get it. The promise that holds everything together was snapped. He broke ground rule number one. There is no more foundation to build on. Where do you even start?

And even if you decided to forgive and move on, it can be a virus that may go dormant for a while, but then surface when conflict occurs. You're good until he forgets your birthday. It's loaded right behind everything he does wrong. Couples rarely recover from infidelity. It's one of the hardest things to heal from.

Here's why.

It's not the act.

Yes, the thought of your partner f*cking someone else is an imprinted visual that's nearly impossible to erase. Your mind will play it back over and over again, especially when things aren't going well. And you'll blow it up. Because chances are, what you imagine it to be isn't how it really went down. You're playing a trailer of an overhyped movie.

Over time, this trailer will slowly fade as you reconnect to your partner and create a stronger intimacy.

That's the goal, but most couples don't get there.

The reason isn't because of what happened.

It's a lack of understanding "the Why."

Because if you don't understand why, you will tie it to your self-worth. On a deeper level, you believe he cheated because you weren't enough.

There's something wrong with you, not him. You're not attractive enough. Skinny enough. Sexual enough. Whatever your insecurity is. You fill in the blank. It cuts deep because you personalize the behavior of his cheating. And this is why it's so hard to heal from being cheated on.

You must try to understand why.

Or you'll just be white-knuckling. And white-knuckling anything in life doesn't work. You know this. It creates pebbles in your shoe. You can't digest and process, dissolve and move past. Understanding is the beginning of healing. Without it, you'll just be pushing down feelings. Even if you truly want to forgive.

Let's explore some of the common whys.

Not happy in the relationship

This is the most common why. She cheated because she's not happy in the relationship. If she were happy, she wouldn't have cheated. Right?

It's just a physical thing

Fulfilling a fantasy. He's good with the relationship. He just wanted to have other sexual experiences without ruining what he already has. He decides to fly solo on this one. And when the opportunity presents itself, maybe not the first time, but over time, he finds himself doing something he will regret.

Not getting sex at home

Simply put, he's not getting enough sex or not satisfied sexually at home. And so he finds it somewhere else. Cut and dry?

To get back at your partner

It's revenge. For him not being around. Not being present. Not making an effort to change. He deserves it. Or maybe for him cheating on you years ago.

These are common reasons why we cheat. Right?

Wrong.

Cheating is complicated. There are layers. It's not just because someone's unhappy in their relationship, not satisfied with their sex life, just wants to fuck other people, or wants to get back at their partner. Yes, of course, those can all be contributing factors. But it's deeper than that.

Is it really about the sex or lack of connection and intimacy? Yes, we all have sexual needs. That is a real thing. But it's usually not just because of sex itself. It's usually lack of intimacy and connection that causes someone to keep peering over the fence.

And that lack of intimacy can be caused by many things. For example, one's own poor self-image and relationship with self can create a change in intimacy. Going through a challenging time in life or transition can create a change in intimacy. One's own addictions can be a crowbar in intimacy. People outgrowing each other can create a change in intimacy. And on and on.

But if you follow the string down, way down, usually cheating stems from some form of disconnection with self. It may be the relationship that caused that disconnection. Or not. It may be from one's own inner journey. Yes, him cheating on you may have had nothing to do with you.

Maybe it's a reaction to always needing to feel desire and approval, and no matter how good your relationship is or how attracted he is to you, maybe you can't give them that because it's his own lacking.

Maybe her life has been good on paper for too long, and she needed to do something that didn't make sense so she can feel alive again. Maybe she needed to be selfish and to do something for her, for the first time. Maybe it's a reaction to his fear of intimacy. Maybe it's a reaction to her not feeling beautiful anymore. Maybe it's a reaction to him not liking himself.

Our actions stem from something deeper than what's on the surface. Infidelity then can be a form of running. Or hiding. Or coping.

It doesn't mean it's excusable. That's not where I'm going with this. It means there's more to cheating that it being about you and the relationship. And once you understand this, you can take it less personally. You can cut the cord that ties the incident to your worth. With this distance, there is now room for empathy. And a 360 view instead of a two-dimensional one.

No, he's not a monster. He is human. Struggling. Coping. Finding himself. And you must see him this way. Not for him. For you. Because it will be what allows you to move past it.

If not, the monster did something to you. You were betrayed and a victim. He took something from you. Yes, that may be true. But if that is your mindset, it will always have power over you.

To take the power back, you must deploy empathy, and you can't deploy empathy unless you understand. And to understand, you must humanize. Both him but also you.

What if you saw cheating as a reaction to something that's happening within them? Not a reaction to you or the relationship?

Would this shift in perspective change anything? Would it help you move through and past instead of holding on?

To anger.

Resentment.

The anchors that will keep you trapped and afraid to love again."

John Kim LMFT

DebraVation posted 2/21/2020 17:27 PM

WS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:50 PM, February 21st (Friday)]

DaddyDom posted 2/21/2020 17:54 PM

Have you introduced your spouse to SI? He could really find a lot of support here. If not here, is he willing to go to MC or IC?

waywardhotwife posted 2/21/2020 18:11 PM

I have asked to go to counseling numerous times, and he refuses. He also won't go to forums like this. His ego is very fragile, even being in places like this will make him feel even lower.

I'm a real person with feelings too, DebraVation. Your comment made me feel even more like a whore, whatever your intentions were. Thanks for sharing.

thatcantbetrue posted 2/21/2020 18:17 PM

WS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:05 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)]

EvolvingSoul posted 2/21/2020 19:43 PM

What if you saw cheating as a reaction to something that's happening within them? Not a reaction to you or the relationship?
Regardless, knowing that does not mean the WS is a safe person to continue in relationship with. Unless the WS is actually figuring out the "something happening within them" and is taking concrete steps to change that brain wiring, the BS is not going to be able to "move through and past instead of holding on" and in fact they would be unwise to. Also, the whole notion that the BS is "holding on" to feeling crummy about the affair is misguided. They do not want to feel this way, but if their WS has not done the work to make them feel safe in the relationship, they're going to.

waywardhotwife posted 2/21/2020 19:50 PM

Thanks for clarifying. I'm sure people who arenot used to the hotwife/cuck lifestyle can see that word and not understand the meaning.

The hotwifing situation has always been my husband's idea, and at one point I became fed up with the pressure and just basically thought "fuck it!" And I did what I wanted, carelessly and recklessly, with no regard to my husband, and in fact, in spite of him. It was still definitely cheating, and is not a good situation.

I have a detailed thread from last year on here that's now a closed topic if anyone wants a debrief on my situation called something like "what have you sacrificed...?"

I kind of lost touch here because everyone kept telling me to give up and divorce my husband.

JBWD posted 2/21/2020 19:51 PM

Sounds, quite honestly, like a dealbreaker. Sucks to say, Iím right there with you... But simply put, the initial response in recovery has a lot of effect on the way forward. I think each DDay has an exponential decrease in R potential, because thereís just so many challenges. Youíre still explaining to him how YOU feel and begrudging him his emotions. Until you let him work through what he thinks your Whys were, youíre just shouting at him.

Itís well acknowledged here that talk is cheap. Consequently the discussion about telling him why over and over, and then just letting things go ďuntil next timeĒ comes off as waiting for him to get over it. The author seems to think the same, that itís within anyone to simply acknowledge itís a cheaterís character flaws, so just move past it. Easier said than done, and an unreasonable assumption, IMO.

Steven Covey said it best, ďTo be understood, you first need to understand.Ē

Lostallalone posted 2/21/2020 20:35 PM

It just seems to be a foggy situation. I personally never understood the cuck culture. Your story goes from him wantong you to do it. Then he doesn't and you do it anyway. Then he's upset. Then he's turned on. Then you go do what you want. Then he's mad. Then he's upset. I don't believe both of you are stable enough for this lifestyle. Get some help. Don't engage anymore hotwifeing until you both understand each other better. I'm not saying its wrong but you both send mixed signals.

Zugzwang posted 2/22/2020 09:15 AM

Itís well acknowledged here that talk is cheap. Consequently the discussion about telling him why over and over, and then just letting things go ďuntil next timeĒ comes off as waiting for him to get over it. The author seems to think the same, that itís within anyone to simply acknowledge itís a cheaterís character flaws, so just move past it. Easier said than done, and an unreasonable assumption, IMO.

Agree. It has a lot to do with the why in understanding where your WS needs to grow up and change. It helps for a BS to shift and take the burden off of themselves as the cause. To truly understand it has nothing to do with them. Just with what the WS majorly lacks in their character. None of that will matter as much as you using what you learn and changing it about yourself. I would think it is less about them understanding the why as it is about them seeing and hearing that YOU as the cheater understands it and identifies it to yourself and to them. The action of being vulnerable and then moving past this by owning it and changing it.

As that is a fairly unexpected premise in the topic of surviving infidelity, people will easily take it as you thinking of yourself as a hot wife, a very attractive married woman, and that's what made it so easy for you to be unfaithful. A rather regrettable misunderstanding, but one you've been aware of for a while, so it's a bit surprising that it keeps affecting you.
Agree with this so much. We had at one point a WS that had the username HisfirstMileHigh as well. Since then has changed her username. If you can't understand why in a place like that, it triggers or the perceived association of the gall to use it with hurting BS (who are only seeing it as a personal jab at them specifically) then you need to look at your lack of empathy. Certainly the fact that you don't understand why they would be upset or clearly are actually bothered by their opinion of your username.

I kind of lost touch here because everyone kept telling me to give up and divorce my husband.
So, you stopped posting because of other people telling you what you didn't want to hear. You chose to be upset about that and in recent post upset about what a BS thinks of your username as your focus? I suggest you focus on why you care so much what strangers think to the point you stopped posting and getting help. There was help there as well. Posts from people pointing you to self reflection, to stop blaming him and using your resentment as an excuse, to work on you. Yet, you ran. Why? Be honest with yourself. You don't have to share it. Just be honest why you ran with yourself. A good first step in facing what you really don't want to face or hear. Maybe it is pain. Maybe it is fear. Maybe it is not being able to handle a hit to the ego. Only you know.

Zugzwang posted 2/22/2020 09:22 AM

On the other note I think the article makes some excellent points. Though I really disagree about the relationship cause of lack of intimacy. Or I should say where it stops, because if one really keeps digging it still becomes the ownership of the individual in that relationship that only you can control. Yourself. If you lack intimacy in the relationship...then you are the cause of it. You can only control you and YOU chose to stay in a relationship you PERCEIVED as not satisfying or unhealthy. Why you choose to accept that treatment is squarely on your shoulders due to your character traits. So, it never IMO has anything to do with the relationship ever. Just the cheater because that is the only thing you have control over or could control.

waywardhotwife posted 2/22/2020 15:16 PM

How do I change my username? I didn't think you could do that. At the time of registering, I didn't even care.

So, you stopped posting because of other people telling you what you didn't want to hear. You chose to be upset about that and in recent post upset about what a BS thinks of your username as your focus? I suggest you focus on why you care so much what strangers think to the point you stopped posting and getting help. There was help there as well. Posts from people pointing you to self reflection, to stop blaming him and using your resentment as an excuse, to work on you. Yet, you ran. Why? Be honest with yourself. You don't have to share it. Just be honest why you ran with yourself. A good first step in facing what you really don't want to face or hear. Maybe it is pain. Maybe it is fear. Maybe it is not being able to handle a hit to the ego. Only you know.

You're right, ultimately, I didn't want to hear that I need to end the relationship. I still don't think that's the answer. And, after all this time, why would I give it up, when he is the one who has been hurting undoubtedly much more than I? As much as I talk on this forum, you are all only hearing my side of things, so how can anyone tell me to leave my betrayed spouse and break up my family? I honestly think it's up to him if he wants that. I made my bed and this is just how life is right now.

As far as the understanding side of things go, I could be 200% better. I admit I'm not empathetic toward him. Just being blunt and open, the underlying thing is that I ultimately resent him and his control over our sex life. Obviously I made the wrong decision by completely taking control. Consciously I know I was the one who made the decision to lie, I just do find it super hard to have compassion when he would willingly share me with another man, but not when I found a way I can enjoy it, if that makes sense. I realize that sounds pretty bad...it's just the honest truth, not that it makes it all okay. I want to be in a place where I can honestly have empathy. I sympathize with him plenty, but empathy is not there at all and he knows it. Clearly I still have shit I need to deal with.

Yourself. If you lack intimacy in the relationship...then you are the cause of it. You can only control you and YOU chose to stay in a relationship you PERCEIVED as not satisfying or unhealthy.
I think I agree with this, though I don't fully apply it to the way I feel. I need to remind myself of this more.

It just seems to be a foggy situation. I personally never understood the cuck culture. Your story goes from him wantong you to do it. Then he doesn't and you do it anyway. Then he's upset. Then he's turned on. Then you go do what you want. Then he's mad. Then he's upset. I don't believe both of you are stable enough for this lifestyle. Get some help. Don't engage anymore hotwifeing until you both understand each other better. I'm not saying its wrong but you both send mixed signals.

Yeah, to sum up, that's how it is. I've tried to stave off of the lifestyle, but he keeps gravitating back to it and even says that's how he'll get over my affair...MORE GUYS, to "get rid of" AP. He does not like explaining himself and he often expects me to just do whatever he thinks will "fix him" then feels humiliated or hurt if I don't do it or if I do it wrong.

I think I'm mostly venting right now. I have no one else to talk to, and my husband refuses to get counseling as I have stated, and feels humiliated if I choose to get counseling by myself (I had 3 sessions with a female therapist and it did more damage than healing). Thanks for listening and chiming in. I think just getting my thoughts typed out and everything helps overall.

Lostallalone posted 2/22/2020 16:15 PM

Plz just tell him it seems to do more harm then good to continue this lifestyle. Maybe explain you dont want anyone else because it ultimately hurts him. With the way things are you both need to heal. Then maybe go back to IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES.

Lostallalone posted 2/22/2020 16:15 PM

Plz just tell him it seems to do more harm then good to continue this lifestyle. Maybe explain you dont want anyone else because it ultimately hurts him. With the way things are you both need to heal. Then maybe go back to IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES.

waywardhotwife posted 2/22/2020 16:51 PM

Plz just tell him it seems to do more harm then good to continue this lifestyle. Maybe explain you dont want anyone else because it ultimately hurts him. With the way things are you both need to heal.

You think I haven't tried this numerous times?

If I choose to talk him out of it, or fight it, he thinks it's because my AP was special and that it means I still want him to be a part of me. Literally, that is what he thinks.

Į\_ _/Į

Zugzwang posted 2/22/2020 17:25 PM

I think a lot of those posters told you to leave because they felt the relationship as you described it was abusive because of the control issues. Those control issues clearly make you unhappy. Personally I never advice giving up unless I see a poster behaving extremely immature and IMO shouldn't be in any relationship. Period. Or they are talking about their spouse clearly abusing them.

Would you consider the control issue that you resented him for before the affair (thus blaming him for your affair at first) and seem to still do as abuse?

Zugzwang posted 2/22/2020 17:31 PM

I may have it wrong. Isn't the type of lifestyle you have chosen all about giving up control in all areas?

At least from what I got out of the Movie The story of O. What you describe just seems to be that. You becoming submissive in all areas. Though to me it clearly doesn't seem to work with anyone. I can't imagine anyone not wanting some control over their lives.

Honestly it just seems to me you want him and not the lifestyle...which will never work out. So, maybe you pretend or put up with the lifestyle in order to be with him. It is like people that change their entire personality with each person they date because they have no idea who they are to begin with.

waywardhotwife posted 2/22/2020 17:53 PM

Would you consider the control issue that you resented him for before the affair (thus blaming him for your affair at first) and seem to still do as abuse?

I resented him and the control before the affair, hence the affair. I'd say it may be abusive now, and it may also be that he is trying to regain control because any affair would shake anyone's sense of control.

I am not clear on it all, but I have been doing self inventory, and I think I have felt trapped for a long time (not just about sex, but also other areas in life). Whether that's true or not, I didn't ever deal with it, and when an opportunity arose to be extremely selfish, I took it without a second thought. There is no excuse for that behavior, but it helps to know the root cause of some of our decisions.

I may have it wrong. Isn't the type of lifestyle you have chosen all about giving up control in all areas?

I'm not sure. He really isn't into being humiliated. I don't really understand it all, and I don't think he does either.

Honestly it just seems to me you want him and not the lifestyle...which will never work out. So, maybe you pretend or put up with the lifestyle in order to be with him. It is like people that change their entire personality with each person they date because they have no idea who they are to begin with.

That is kind of what I'm doing right now. I have always just wanted to be with my husband. I'm the type of person who doesn't say "No" even if I want to say no. And I may even say "yes" and then not do the thing I said yes to. Pretty much just to avoid any discomfort or conflict in that moment! It's not good. Anyway, I never felt comfortable with this lifestyle and I thought he would eventually want to stop. Now I feel like a robot, just going through whatever it takes for him to start to move on. I have to tell myself I just have to put up with it if I want to stay married and try to look at the positives.

Zugzwang posted 2/23/2020 18:15 PM

I think you need to identify the issues you had before and stick to that as not just being the consequence of cheating. You had legitimate reasons to feel like the relationship wasn't working. Because you lack the self confidence to stand up for yourself and demand normal respect...you let him steam roll you, then had enough and cheated. Yes, he and the relationship aren't the reasons why you cheated. Your lack of self confidence and respect are. Though that still doesn't change the fact that you weren't be treated the way you wanted to be treated before you decided to cheat. I think that is why many people said divorce. You can't make your husband change. Because he chose such an unusual way to have a relationship and to feel like he has respect...I suspect it something he will never be willing to give up. Those are his deep rooted issues. He has to do his part. He wasn't going to do it before you cheated. I doubt he will do it now that you have. You can't be enough for the both of you. It has to be a partnership. That is the type of relationship you want. He doesn't. He never sounds like he has. His self confidence issues are so low he needs total control and compliance. You can't fix his deep seated lack of self esteem.

No one wants to be humiliated. Your husband isn't unique in that issue. Not every one needs to go to the extremes your husband goes to in order to avoid it or the way he fixes hits to his pride.

I sure hope you get your own self confidence and respect back to leave and demand more.

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