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Kb82 posted 6/23/2019 18:16 PM

I'm still new here but have been posting quite a bit since joining. Just typing my story out has been helping in my recovery process. If you haven't read my story, basically my DD was 3/16/19, Snapchat pics with a coworker that he still works with. I've been catching him in lies since and practicing the 180 for my own sanity and healing. We have 4 children, one on the way. Pretty much sums up most details.

This post is about compulsive lying. It's insane how many lies I have caught him in and keep catching him in. Oddly, haven't found anymore concrete evidence to suggest an affair is still happening. But he works with her so there's still definitely that possibility. The lies I've been catching him in are where he's at, things he says to others that aren't true or very exaggerated, and even lying about whether he stopped and got fast food or not.

Has anyone else experienced this? Just constant lying about EVERYTHING? I know it's a cliche but I really do think he would lie about the color of the sky. And does the lying come first or the cheating? Thoughts? Experiences?

[This message edited by Kb82 at 6:44 PM, June 23rd (Sunday)]

hear-me-roar posted 6/23/2019 20:25 PM

I would say that telling lies would be 'first'. 'Honestly', who hasn't told a lie here or there, ever? That is simply based on who you are, as a person. When a cheater is found out, seems like their first way to handle it is to lie. Some people can't admit to a faulty ego. They don't lie to you to shield you from pain. They lie so they don't look bad. As I've read here, some cheaters do soften, after understanding the anguished hurt they caused. They have no problem to tell the truth and not hide a single detail of the affair, once found out.

My WH affair situation - he only acknowledged anything if I faced him with actual proof. Even then, if possible, he twisted the proof. Everything he could lie about, he did. It was all about his ego not being able to "eat humble pie".

For your husband to lately lie about everything, it does seem compulsive. But, if it still relates to an affair coverup, it is understandable. Your Dday is still fresh for you, and him. It's difficult to just be done with a relationship, because of spousal discovery. Especially, when working with the OP. By his lies, it appears that he wants to construct a routine that would seem reasonable to you, in all ways. Time is on your side. You've listened and watched for awhile. Hopefully, you will eventually see the 'truth' of him, in his lies.

tl502 posted 6/23/2019 22:35 PM

My h was a compulsive liar. He would talk online to women and tell them he had illnesses. He would talk about getting an mri. It was all part of the attention neediness that he had.

After dd#2, when he realized that it all had to stop, he made it happen. It was rough at first, we couldn’t even have surprises because he was so afraid of me thinking that he was lying that he would just spill his guts.

He has completely broken this habit as far as I can tell. He has finally accepted that he is enough just the way he is. He doesn’t have to lie to get attention. We are still pretty much radically honest with each other, no surprise birthday parties around here, but it’s a much more honest relationship.

brokenyrs posted 6/24/2019 09:32 AM

My WH is a compulsive liar. He also lies about everything to just about everyone.

He would lie to women to so they would think he was this great guy or to get them to do what he wanted. And he's lies would adapt and change depending on the woman.

He lies to me. Big or small it doesn't matter he lies.

He has even gone so far as to lie to his IC. Which IMO made his IC app't a waste of time.

I think with him he has always been a liar. I think it started when he was young. I also think it's because he has to appear to be this great guy all the time. And I think part of it is control. If he lies about something it's so he has control of what someone else thinks about what he is telling him. The day to day small lies I think is just because he has lies for so long about so many things that it is just habit now.

I found the hard part is that the lies add up. Big or small it doesn't matter. He's lied so much that now when he says something or if I ask a question I can tell when he is lying. And it destroys trust. It's hard and I don't even know if it's possible to build trust back up when they continue to lie all the time.

cocoplus5nuts posted 6/24/2019 12:35 PM

Yes, I had an ex who was a compulsive liar. He lied about almost everything except his name. He has spent his entire adult life in and out of jail. I think he is currently incarcerated.

Chrysalis123 posted 6/24/2019 13:00 PM

Just constant lying about EVERYTHING

If I were you I would be suspicious of everything he has ever told you. People don't suddenly change their character.

I think what happened is his mask fell off, and now you see the real guy.

Have you investigated his past at all and verified anything? Have you looked carefully into your finances and other documents such as titles on property, insurance etc. ?

Justgetitoverwith posted 6/24/2019 16:38 PM

Mine has proven to lie about any inappropriate behavior, no matter how small or relatively innocent. If he thinks I'll disapprove, he'll lie about it. I've no idea when he started doing this, but I'm confident it's been going on for the majority of our time together, and I've only recently been catching it. Because I trusted him. And thought that he'd improved after the first big lie I caught. Apparently not. He'd rather continue to behave inappropriately for the licks, then lie to me, someone who has stood by him through some pretty tough times for 20+ years.
I've also caught him lying to others (and he lied to his first IC too - who he was seeing about his lying!), and it's all about not making him look bad in any way. So I don't think he's actually a compulsive liar, more a reflexive liar. Which means every lie is deliberate, as it isn't corrected. Which to me, is worse than someone who lies about inconsequential things too, as it's more deliberately deceptive.

It's so completely destructive. I wonder about everything he told me in the past (there have been copious opportunities to cheat away from home), and now feel in limbo, waiting for the next thing I can find enough evidence to catch him out on, now he's been given his last chance. Which is no way to live, and it's practically impossible anyway.

The best way of not lying is avoiding the behaviour which causes you to do so. I'd really be wondering if the lies your WS gets caught in actually do relate to continued inappropriate behaviour. It's so hard when you have lots of little niggles but can't concretely prove anything. And it's very difficult to see how you can live with it long term.

As to your initial questions, I think the behaviour comes first. Just small things, but when they realise they can so easily receive you, it's easier to behave even worse, because they know they'll get away with it.

Athena1979 posted 6/24/2019 21:18 PM

Here's what you do with the compulsive liars...you never ask them a question. Only provide statements.

Example :

I am divorcing you because of the 24 prostitutes you purchased just this month.

I NEVER purchased prostitutes!!!!!!

I did not ask you a question. I made a statement. I will not provide you the opportunity to blatantly lie.

Also...I watched a science discovery show once that says that compulsive liars have brains that are wired differently. While most of us will think, "I am going to get that book off that shelf." Our brains determine a route directly to the shelf.

However, a liar's brain will think "I am going to get that book off that shelf." And their brains format a route to the book in about 200 different directions and never end up getting the book at all.

Bleu posted 6/24/2019 21:31 PM

By his lies, it appears that he wants to construct a routine that would seem reasonable to you, in all ways.

This is powerful. This may not be what hear-me-roar (great handle, BTW) meant but my STBXWH found plausible lies where he could build in time to see other women.

Just one thing to look out for . . .

Kb82 posted 6/24/2019 22:49 PM

Thank you for all of your replies. I definitely think his mask finally fell off and I am just seeing him for who he really is. Which is kind of refreshing because it verifies that I haven't been crazy every time I have had an intuition in our 10 year relationship. Also very disturbing at the same time. I definitely think that the affair, or more affairs, are going on and probably have been the entire time we have been together. I just trusted him and never thought it possible. Since my DD in March, and it confirming an affair finally, I guess my blinders came off. I started paying more attention.

Some of the lies are so silly. For instance, yesterday he left here saying that he was going to get us something to eat for lunch. Right before he left he got irritated because I wouldn't kiss him. He left after that. He took my vehicle, which has a tracker on it that he doesn't know about. I know that he left and went to the Burger King drive thru and ordered himself a meal. Then he went back to his mothers house where our children were swimming. I waited to hear back. Finally asked if he was still bringing food. He replied he just decided to eat at his moms house. I pretended to be oblivious and just said OK. But he brings the kids home and I noticed the Burger King cup and said "I thought you didn't get any food?" And he gets super defensive and says that's been there for days. Its my car so I would have known if it had been there for days. He just completely tells the most stupid lies and gets mad if you don't believe them.

My new thoughts are "If you would lie to me about damn Burger King you would definitely lie to me about sleeping with another woman." I definitely don't think there is any way to ever get my trust back. On my way out...

cocoplus5nuts posted 6/25/2019 07:29 AM

Right before he left he got irritated because I wouldn't kiss him. He left after that. He took my vehicle, which has a tracker on it that he doesn't know about. I know that he left and went to the Burger King drive thru and ordered himself a meal. Then he went back to his mothers house where our children were swimming.

Sounds passive aggressive to me. The lie comes in to help cover his passive aggressiveness.

survrus posted 6/25/2019 17:51 PM

What can be funny is that these guys have no awareness that other people are on to them.

I love the trophies they have kept from high school that they still display and the too expensive vehicle their wife paid for or is about to be repossessed.

Stronger2 posted 6/26/2019 06:50 AM

The lying is part of who they are or who they have become. It ultimately starts with lying to themselves about who they are and what they are doing. I think this becomes a default position and then develops like a virus in them. They start to live in a world of totally screwed reality. To me, they are deeply weak and cowardly people who can't face up to things like ethical and responsible adults.
I sent my WH to therapy after 13 months of gaslighting and trickle truth, just so he could understand why he could not stop lying. I think it did him a lot of good. He talks now about himself like a recovering addict and accepts that he simply can't lie about anything now as otherwise it's a relapse.

Chrysalis123 posted 6/26/2019 09:04 AM

What can be funny is that these guys have no awareness that other people are on to them

This is also their downfall. The arrogance and superiority complex lets them think they are smarter than all. That's why in many of the infamous criminal cases the perps represented themselves in court. They literally believed they could outfox attorneys, judges, and juries. Remember Drew Peterson, Ted Bundy, and Charles Manson??

crazyblindsided posted 6/26/2019 17:35 PM

I definitely think his mask finally fell off and I am just seeing him for who he really is. Which is kind of refreshing because it verifies that I haven't been crazy every time I have had an intuition in our 10 year relationship.

It is refreshing I know what you mean. It's like finding the missing puzzle piece. I could never pinpoint what was off my entire relationship & M with WS. Now I know.

I'm at the point now where if he is opening his mouth at all it is most likely lies.

What can be funny is that these guys have no awareness that other people are on to them.

This is the best part^^^ now I can see it and ignore or diffuse it. I've noticed he is going elsewhere for ego boosts (either our kids and his friends possibly another A who knows).

RegretfulHusband posted 6/26/2019 17:51 PM

BrokenYrs,

If he lies about something it’s so he has control over what someone thinks...

This is really interesting and something I am going to think a lot about.

I’m a FWH, and I absolutely was a compulsive liar. I could lie about the color of my hair while standing in front of you.

And I agree, the smaller lies just become a part of who you are once you learn that lying is easier than the truth . The initial lie isn’t usually what gets liars though, it’s all the smaller supporting lies that have to be told, managed and upheld in order to keep the original lie standing. It’s a structure that eventually falls on itself.

If there’s anything I’m thankful for out of this whole ordeal I put my wife and family through, it’s that the lying has stopped. It makes me physically ill now to lie or cover anything up, so much so that sometimes if I leave work at 4:58 and say “I left at 5”, I have to correct myself.

Lying just isn’t worth it. I regret it took me so long to learn that. But I’m glad I did eventually.

Kb82 posted 6/27/2019 01:10 AM

RegretfulHusband, good job on addressing the issue. We all have issues. NO one is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. The fact you addressed the problem shows a ton of character and strength.

Kb82 posted 6/27/2019 01:12 AM

Crazy blindsided, I could have written your story. I'm sorry you are dealing with it. I know how frustrating constantly being lied to can be.

OwningItNow posted 6/27/2019 04:55 AM

I find myself at this age not caring so much what you are lying about but why you are lying about it. Whether it's a friend or coworker or one of my kids or my H, if I think I have caught an untruth, I'll get stuck wondering why they felt they had to say it. Because the fact that they just lied reveals everything about who they are and nothing about me, so I will spend quite a bit of time trying to understand them.

And 95% of the time, their lying is clearly about their shame (cue the awesome Brene Brown).

The more self-esteem that you have (defined by me as: being able to easily share with others your greatest flaws, vulnerabilities, mistakes, or weaknesses), the less you lie.

People who accept themselves as they are tell very few lies. My H lies easily and often and is almost always covering a perceived deficit. He is working hard on this, but I still see him struggle. His shame is deeply rooted in his childhood, in a strict mother who did not show her own vulnerabilities and criticized his and in an absent father who never made him feel valued. Those earliest feelings are at his core, and if he has to tell me anything that makes him feel less than (he forgot something, messed up, indulged in an inappropriate way, feels weak, feels selfish, feels sad, whatever) he will really struggle to share it or own it. This need to lie and cover played a big role in his waywardness.

I try not to judge his lying which will only produce more shame. After all, my perfectionism is a cover for my own feelings of shame, so who am I to judge. I simply tell him that I cannot partner with someone who is not honest. The reasons don't matter. He understands through IC that he must face his shame and conquer it by accepting that he is not perfect if he wants to have a close relationship with anyone else.

Close relationships are established through honesty, not through lies. No two ways about it. And almost every wayward struggles with accepting themselves and most likely lied long before they cheated. Needing to lie almost paves the way for the ultimate lie.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 5:01 AM, June 27th (Thursday)]

folio44 posted 6/27/2019 07:33 AM

I have one of these compulsive liars as a FWH, even after 4 years of R, I will check his phone and realize he befriended a stranger and gave her his card, recently this girl thanked him for a lift he gave her from the airport, I looked her up on FB and she is the typical type he used to go after, in her 40's and good looking.

They exchanged a few friendly emails, which I found in his Trash section of his emails. Why wouldn't he tell me about this encounter?

Lying by omission is a lie to me, no matter what your reasons for hiding an encounter from me. Am I right? Lying out of fear of repercussions is still a lie. Do Comupulsive liars get a kick out of lying ?. It's a game, a thrill.
I am so fed up of this yet I am still hoping he will mention giving a lift to this girl and come clean.
At this point I don't want to let on I am still checking his emails and phone.