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I'm different now, but still the same

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Stilldenying posted 5/14/2019 12:53 PM

Been a while since I last posted. Read almost everyday.
So, update; I have kinda been on a spiritual journey last month. Even joined a local church support group for those who have been betrayed.
Something in me has changed since I found out about the hotels and found that bitch in his car again at the gym. I started antidepressants and I think they are working to at least make me numb, less emotional. But with that has come the clarity, I am not able to ignore the things I have known for 2 years now, for past behavior I always ignored that could be defined as verbal abuse. And that he has not and will not end contact with her, his exact words last night. She is just a friend.
He refuses to give me anything I ask for. Won't show me the amex bills for the last 6 months that I found out he was paying off. Won't give me access to the cell phone account. Says the hotels were when I would be emotional and tell him to leave, funny how he never actually spent the night at any of them (except maybe the ones booked when I was out of town).
Anyhow, I am rambling. Point is I feel myself shifting and it kinda scares me. I got into it with him last night about wanting transparency. Needing all the missing pieces to have agency to make decisions based on truth. Big ass NO. He got real in my face angry especially since he knows that I snooped, especially finding the gift cards in his wallet. He says he doesn't give a fuck, does that help me make a decision now??? Wow, just wow!! Says I am the one that is a fake and a fraud for snooping and hiding it. I'm scared but I am also numb and just know that I have a completely remorseless spouse with a deep hatred of me when I want accountability. I remained calm, him not so much. I did take some advise last time I posted, I got a consultation with a divorce attorney. I won't end up on the streets. Baby steps... feel guilty I even did that but...
I just wish he would show some empathy, an "I'm sorry for hurting you". Oh and now it will be me that will end out marriage now cause I can't get over it and am crazy and won't stop digging, asking questions. He isn't looking for divorce. Financially it would be a huge hit for him.
I just wanted us to finish this life together, I just wanted to feel loved and respected. My 17th anniversary is in about 6 months. If I honestly can't do it anymore it is best that I wait until then for the best alimony, likely for life. I feel guilty that. I hope he deserves me by then.
Thanks for reading my all over the place thoughts. You really have nailed it, predicted everything right so far. He hates that by the way, those people don't know me!!!

paboy posted 5/14/2019 13:19 PM

At this point, you really need to 180. You need to detach. Stop arguing or even speaking with him. You need time and space to be able to decide whats best for you.

Remember, your primary goal is to get out of infidelity. If he is unwilling, you need to seriously decide how you are going to remove it from your life.

If he will not allow access to accounts etc. Advise him that your lawyer will subpoena them, and that anything spent on the posow will be deducted in divorce settlements.

Take control of your life back.

NeverHealed posted 5/14/2019 13:23 PM

File for divorce. See if that gets his attention. If he comes around, you can always stop the process. And it will take more than six months, if you want it to.

self-rescuer posted 5/14/2019 13:26 PM

Sweetie, you must drop the guilt. Just drop it and walk away.

He is hurting you in so many ways - big stabs and a million tiny cuts. He is so hurtful and contemptuous in his cold declarations. Walk away from the pain.

It is the hardest thing you will ever do but he is not exhibiting even basic decent behavior let alone anything that looks like affection.

I'm not sure if you have seen an attorney yet or not but it is the most proactive step you can take.

I am sorry you are here. Please keep posting.

nekonamida posted 5/14/2019 13:49 PM

He says he doesn't give a fuck, does that help me make a decision now??? Wow, just wow!!

Stilldenying, LISTEN TO HIM. He won't R with you. He won't even stop cheating on you. He doesn't care about you, R, your guilt and pain, the marriage, or anything else but himself.

Have you been intimate even once in the last 2 years? Time for another STD test.

I just wish he would show some empathy, an "I'm sorry for hurting you".
I just wanted us to finish this life together, I just wanted to feel loved and respected.

You will never have these things as long as you stay married to him. It will never happen. But if you get away from him and heal, it can happen with someone else or better yet, you will love and respect yourself.

Seeing the lawyer is good. Do you have an IC? Have you read books like "Codependent No More"?

Stilldenying posted 5/14/2019 14:03 PM

Have you been intimate even once in the last 2 years? Time for another STD test

Yes, I have. That is part of my shift, I got my first infection (but not technically considered an STD) in October coinciding with the first month the amex charges started. The last was after I found the hotel booked on the day I flew out to visit my mom. Is it crazy that I am trying to convince myself it was a coincidence? As I said, doctor said it isn't technically a STD and other tests were ok.

nekonamida posted 5/14/2019 14:06 PM

I wouldn't say crazy per say. In denial or codependent, perhaps. It's not uncommon for women to get vaginal infections when they've been sharing their partner with someone else. Her bacteria gets on him and he in turn gives it to you.

Stevesn posted 5/14/2019 14:20 PM

Good to hear from you SD

So glad you are starting to take action. Without him taking ownership or doing anything to provide remorse, transparency or anything to help you heal is not a good way to live.

So my advice would be to OUT their relationship to anyone who matters, the OBS, your family and friends, work (unless u think that will get him fired ... if so, wait on that til after D).

Then file for D. You can have your lawyer work it slowly if there is some target date for maximum alimony. Not sure 17th anniversary is a real milestone for that, but your lawyer should know.

As for WH, itís time to fully detach from him.

Below is a generic list of things you should do when you have a non Remorseful WS. Some you have already done, but it may help.

In the meantime if I were you, something like this would be the last words I would say to him before letting a lawyer handle the rest. Customize as you see fit.

ďI hoped to love and care for you the rest of our lives. I wanted to live out our gold years together.

Obviously you care more about the OW than you do our marriage. I can no longer be in a 3-way relationship.

So Iím letting you go pursue what you so desperately seem to want.

Repairing our relationship is not simply you saying youíre sorry and then forgetting what you have done. I would need to see true remorse from you for how you have hurt me.

In addition I would need full transparency, counseling for you and us, a post-nup to secure me financially, no contact with your lover including not working with her any more, reading about infidelity and most important, true emotions showing me how you feel about me.

I donít believe you care enough about me to be able to do even one of those things, let alone all of them which are needed to rebuild the marriage your betrayal has destroyed.

So Iím moving on without you. Iím expecting this will be a relief to you as I no longer care to discuss your affair with you anymore. You can start to live your life without me now.

My heart is broken. Itís time for me to start healing it on my own.

I no longer wish any contact with you. Please respect that request. ď

And then please SD, start building your own new life. Itís time.

If he decides to do the work needed thatís for him to decide. Stop asking him to do it.

I promise after a few months of NC and detaching from him you will find your self worth again and realize there are men out there who value you as a friend and as a partner/lover out there.

Good luck

Here is that list.

1) you should get a lawyer. Call tomorrow. Go interview a couple next week. When you settle on one find out your options. Tell them to draft D papers to be served at your notice

2) get in IC. If you are not already find one that specializes in infidelity

3) open your own bank account at another bank. Move half your joint money to it.

4) Contact the OBS. Don't tell WS you are going to talk to the OBS. It's none of their freakin business. You need to coordinate with OBS so you both know what is going on.

5) full on implementation of the 180 (read it in the Healing Library). Until he gets his head out of his ass you don't need to talk to him about anything but finances and kids (if you have kids). Again... HE IS NOT YET REMORSEFUL so there is no reason to talk to him about anything else. If he is still in love with her and talking to her there is no way R can work so stick to the basics. Besides the 180 is not to get your WS back, it's to show yourself you can stand up and be strong without him.

One wise SI poster (OkOkOk) said it this way: You stop asking his whereabouts. You stop talking to him about the affair, past details or current. You stop yelling, fighting, begging, imploring. You're not critical or judgmental. You stop saying I love you, you don't hug or allow yourself to be hugged (just politely say "no thank you"). You don't give gifts, schedule dates, tell him you miss him, tell him he's cute, etc. You don't do any of that. Again -- you're not mean! You are cheerful, outgoing, independent.

No matter what you're feeling inside, *this* is the you that you allow your spouse to see. The cheerful, outgoing, independent, happy you.

6) STD TESTING. Did you get that done yet? If you know it was a PA make sure you are healthy and no sex with him until he proves he is healthy and NC.

7) Expose to close friends and family. His work too if you think it will help and not lose you financial support. You need support in this difficult time. Don't sell your close relationships short. You'd help them if they'd ask so give them the chance. "My WS has fallen in love with someone else. Whether we R or D i hope I can count on you to be there when things get tough for us"

8) tell him to leave. That he can go be with the OW if that is what makes him happy. Kick him out if that is what it takes. You don't want to be with him if he is going to be pining away for someone else

Cooley2here posted 5/14/2019 14:21 PM

I wish you would get online and read about what the long-term stress does to the human body. This is going to take you down if you donít do something. You need to get yourself to a place where you can make a decision for your self. His behavior is so outrageous that there is no excuse for it. It seems like heís enjoying driving you crazy. Let him have his 25 year younger girlfriend. Letís see just how long that will last. You need to take yourself completely out of the picture. I hate pushing separation and divorce because you do love him. But what are you getting out of this except misery. Please please look up long term stress on the body. It is not a pretty picture

Buster123 posted 5/14/2019 18:03 PM

You have received good advise, i will echo what others said but in a much shorter way, hire a pitbull attorney and file for D without warning, go for the jugular and get every penny you deserve, alimony for life sounds great, and EXPOSE to EVERYONE, if full exposure and D papers don't shock him back to reality, then nothing will, if so just let the D run its course and get out of infidelity, you deserve much better than an unremorseful cheater and a liar.

The1stWife posted 5/14/2019 18:32 PM

🛑 stop.

Stop trying to talk to him. 🛑. Stop trying to reason with him about your pain. 🛑. Stop trying to get him to ďunderstand ď 🛑. Stop trying to reconcile with him. 🛑

You are focusing on him and the marriage when you should be focusing on yourself. On YOU! Get yourself strong. Heal your emotional wounds. Get out from his lying and cheating.

The point is he has pushed you down. Now you need to get back up and recover your joy in life. He wants to cheat? Then move on. You have suffered long enough. Heís not a nice guy. He is not marriage material at this point.

Build a better life for you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:33 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)]

Hurtmyheart posted 5/14/2019 19:41 PM

Your WH sounds like a bully and you are trying to fix him. Not going to happen. Trying to get him to change is called codependency. You might as well spend your time talking to the wall. You would probably have better luck with that!

Your WH sounds like a complete a**hole. What do you get out of a relationship from someone who abuses you, esp from the person who should have your utmost interest at heart? Where in your life did something happen to you that you have allowed this to go on for so long?

My mom used to try to force my brothers to stop using heroine and other drugs and quit smoking cigarettes. She spent most of her time focused on trying to change them. Never worked and they didn't stop.

This is how I see you, trying to fix someone who has no desire to be fixed. He is happy doing what he is doing! You need to see this. He has no remorse. He has no shame. And he has no care for you. Sad because most codependents are very caring people who really are wanting the best.

Codependency is hard to break. You need to be able to see it and understand it to be able to change. There are 12 step programs that deal specifically with codependency and can help you along. Sometimes help and support from others is all we need to make changes that need to be made. Maybe you might want to look into it.

Shockedmom posted 5/15/2019 09:50 AM

Your attorney may be able to retrieve the financial records to prove marital funds were used for the alleged affair. Possibly allowing you to recoup 50%. Please seek a certified family law attorney to protect yourself financially and legally. You deserve to move forward and heal, a therapist would help you deal with the trauma.

Stilldenying posted 5/15/2019 15:04 PM

Thanks for the support, it helps sometimes just to be "heard". I know I don't follow up with all the advice for my own messed up reasons but I gotta take this piece of shit journey the best way I can day to day.
Tonight though, happy hour with my girlfriend's 🍷.
Later when I get home and I know he will try to nice me, I'll just remind him he chose her and go to bed. He has til our anniversary to win me back. Then it's renew those vows that are still in our lock box or throw them away... throw me away.
Wish I was as strong as some moments I pretend to be.

nekonamida posted 5/16/2019 09:23 AM

He has til our anniversary to win me back. Then it's renew those vows that are still in our lock box or throw them away... throw me away.

SD, stop giving him chances. He can't win you back while dating her and acting unremorseful. And even then, even if he doesn't win you back, you still put the opportunity to renew your vows on the table. Seriously? Is the marriage you have today the one that you want to be in for the rest of your life? And what kind of sick joke would it be to renew a vow for him to be faithful and forsake all others while he is currently dating OW?

Whatever your problems are - start taking steps to fix them. Start seeing an IC. Start reading books aimed to help/better understand people with the same problems as you. Start taking your life back and stop giving him the power to make or break you. And more importantly, start LISTENING to his words and actions telling you he will not R with you and make decisions based on REALITY and not what you hope to be true/magically change in 6 months. It didn't happen before and it's not going to happen now.

SD, so many of us have had issues with self love, esteem, respect, codependency, etc. Myself included! And we have all had to take stock in our situations and get help to make ourselves stronger in order to get out of harmful and toxic situations like yours. The worst thing that you can do for the next 6 months is wallow in your pain and do nothing for yourself. The best thing you can do is start focusing and working towards being a stronger, better SD. Notice how your WH is no where a part of this conversation? Because you don't need him to be your best self and you especially don't need him if his behavior is going to keep you stressed out and miserable. So get to a place where you can make the best choices for you.

Stilldenying posted 6/13/2019 15:00 PM

Well, took another rollercoaster ride and had a meltdown after a evening with my girlfriends. I hate it when it happens and I feel like shit for saying things that are hurtful to him even if they are true. The end result is he put some clothes in the car and left last night. Oh and he didn't forget his ED medicine he hides. Something truly broke in me after finding that hotel booking for the day he took me to the airport, going to confront at the gym so my mom didn't have to witness it and finding that whore in his car again. The whole story is at the beginning of this thread.
Point is, I don't know if I can come back from this. The level of deciept, the planning!!! I am 2 years out and hate myself for being so fucking weak, for having no self respect or value I think my head will explore. This may be it for us and I am heartbroken. He forgot his daily meds, ya know the actual important ones and his shaving kit. He didn't bring many clothes so he will probably home to get that stuff. I guess I will pretend I am asleep. I sent him a email but probably shouldn't have and of course no response. I mean why would he see how I am? He continues to not allow me to to see his cell and text log, refuses to show me what he actually charged since October, I know there are hotels and have to assume gifts too. Don't know what to expect but I think it's over. And then there will be no reason to hide it anymore cause I know eventually it will be exposed at work and probably have serious repercussions and that the OBS will probably find out too. I'm so sad and scared. Just asking for some virtual hugs, and strength because I don't want to lose my marriage but I can't reconcile with someone that has no regret let alone remorse. How have I survived this long??? Why can't I be loved, valued? Why won't he show me what I need to forgive him? Why am I such a weak person? Not a pity party, this shit just really fucks you up!!! On the plus side I found a local support group. They are concerned I have no transparency, they wonder how I survive. Well quite frankly there's a pill for that.

rugswept posted 6/13/2019 15:23 PM

stilldenying... you're not new around here. you've heard it all, seen it all. so many of us can see so clearly about these situations, as long as we're not in it.

you wanted to be on the road to R. he's leaving you no other options except separation or D. what else is there?

please, start collecting the financials, the asset lists, and see an attorney. he is really and truly a first class asshole. horrible. beyond horrible.

you know about the 180. you know if anything works, it's that. that and threaten him with S or D. and no more communication with that ffffing jerk. enough.

we're sorry it's come to this. you know what you have to do. you just have to find the strength to do it. your church group can help you more than you know. good luck.

Cooley2here posted 6/13/2019 15:51 PM

Forgive me for sounding coldhearted but what if exactly are you holding out for? How in the world can you ever want to live with this man for the rest of your life? This is not a marriage it is a torture chamber. Get out!

Booyah posted 6/13/2019 16:22 PM

There's NO marriage to "save".

All that binds you together is a piece of paper.

This is NO longer about him as he's shown you time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time who he IS and how much he values you (which there isn't any).

This is (and has been) about YOU and why you think SO little of yourself that you put up with this??

Stilldenying (which is a perfect forum moniker) your life is ticking away!!!!

You have ONE opportunity at this thing called life and you ARE PISSING IT AWAY for a man who values you about as much as the dog shit on the bottom of his shoe that he stepped in.

Please know that my intent is NOT to be mean nor to degrade you. I know this is tough to hear but hopefully it will stir some emotions in you (hopefully ANGER) that will decide to take ACTION and make a choice to leave this HORRIBLE HATEFUL CRUEL PERSON who brings you NOTHING but PAIN!!!!

For the love of God PLEASE quit playing the role of a VICTIM and calling yourself "weak". You are stronger than you think you are, but nobody, and I mean NOBODY can help you until YOU decide that enough is enough and that you deserve more than being abused by this man day after day.

StillDenying he is NOT all of a sudden going to come to his senses and have an ah ha moment of clarity and see the errors of his ways.

You know why?


Do what you got to do to get out of there NOW!!!

Praying that you'll take action and value yourself enough to say NO MORE!!!

northeasternarea posted 6/13/2019 16:49 PM

Please 🛑. He doesnít care. Heís not remorseful. It takes 2to reconcile.

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