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I am certain I am going to hear how naive and stupid I am but...The last few days have been overwhelming. Everything has come out about my husband’s over 20 year EA. If you have read anything I have posted you would know I caught my husband in a graphic sexting affair three months ago and in the course of dealing with that, found out about the REAL issue, the 20 plus year affair with his other ex.

Little background...husband dated her 30 years ago. they were together everyday for a year, he loved her (actually news to me, never heard the emotional extent of this relationship ever), she dumped him when he wouldn’t buckle under after her ultimatum. He got her back and then dumped her out of revenge. They never forgot eachother blah blah blah.

So fast forward to today. Found out she has been in my marriage the whole time. He send a NC text even though they had broken up last year in October. I wanted him to do it. She answered, things got ugly. I got some information from him and then completely fed up I texted her, dumped his phones, and contacted the phone company for records all the way back. Long story short, he’s been living a double emotional life. Talking to her, picking a fight with me to make him feel better, etc. We have never really been alone. After confronting them both with all my hard won info, and two days of emotional conversations, crying (him and me), remorse, etc so on

So...here what I know:

They spoke every month for 21 years, except for a lag of 6 weeks. Texted constantly, multiple calls per month.

They told eachother all the time “I love You, you’re the love of my life etc”

They talked about him leaving me and being with her

She invited him constantly to go away with her on vacations and weekends, he declined

She made him happy and then they would argue then make up

He saw her in person 4 times in all that time. We live far away.

He saw her for the first time 14 years ago and was not attracted to her (she is a big woman now, he likes the lean muscular type) stayed 10 minutes and left

Saw her 7 years ago, made out with her outside next to the car

Saw her 2 years ago, had a coffee

And the tricky one for me and the reason for my question...12 years ago Right after my mom died I had to travel for work to Europe. While gone he dropped my kids off at his parents, went to an event and then as planned drove up to see her. Got there about 11:00 pm and spent the night. Apparently according to both of them he slept all night in her bed (him in underwear and a T-shirt, her fully clothed and on top of the covers). He stroked her hair, they made out, they told eachother they loved eachother, made plans, and he left at 6:00am. No sex.

I have never seen my husband the way he is right now. He has outlined everything in detail, admitted personality faults, was actually on his knees at one point completely devastated he hurt me so much and wrecked our marriage. He is adamant they did not ever have sex because that would have been it for him and me. He couldn’t cross that line. I believe his remorse, and everything else but for the love of whatever god you believe in, I do not believe two adults in their 40s who have been declaring true love for decades and had the opportunity all night to consummate after already doing it years before when dating would NOT have sex.

I am going to move on and will repair my marriage and enjoy my husband for the first time since I’ve known him treating me like he loves me. And talking to me. Etc. But just wanted to ask if I’m wrong to not believe this last thing. Come on, REALLY.?

[This message edited by NorthernMSB at 3:02 PM, March 27th (Wednesday)]

You are not wrong. They most likely, I would bet something like 99.99%, had sex. I'm sorry. Read around on this site. His scenario literally never happens.

No, you are not wrong.

For me the question wouldn't be did they od did they not. The question would be, how can they be so delusional to think, that this one thing would make everything OK?! All the years of lying and deceiving are forgotten JUST beacause they didn't have sex, which, of course is irelevant in the big picture of lies.

You know better, even if he insists, swears, wants to chop his limbs of or put them in fire to prove his innocence, you just know, what your truth is.

And of course they had sex, 99,99 to infinity %.

(I have a similar problem, my partner insists, he didn't have sex with his AP, it could be the truth, since in one of our heated arguments he said that he would have if he could (get it up, I guess)).

You know, if you attempt to murder someone, you are as guilty as if you succeeded.

I admire your willingnes to try to move on, good luck

[This message edited by bookworm19 at 11:17 AM, March 25th (Monday)]

I am so sorry, NorthernMSB. As I read through your post, my thoughts were that in some ways it doesn't matter if they had sex. You've been handed a horrible thing -- the life that you've thought you've lived for years was not as it seemed. That, in and of itself, is SO traumatic. I do hope you'll schedule some time for IC (individual counseling) to help you start to sort this out. You'll also find resources in the Healing Library in the yellow box on the lefthand side of this site. I found information on the 180 to be very helpful to me. I never implemented it in a hard way because we moved to reconciling pretty quickly, but it was instrumental in terms of shifting my frame of reference so that I approached the whole situation from a position of knowing my value. Again, I'm so sorry that you're here.

That is certainly the question...honestly, the fact he has been telling another woman he loves her for my entire marriage is worse somehow for me. He just bloody well admitting it is not the worst thing I’ve experienced so far. He thinks I would leave him if he tells me.

Probably. For an outsider it looks like he's holding on to this fact (no sex, really??) as if it where a joker or a get ouf the jail card in some sense.

I'm really sorry for your situation.

Be careful on what you are trying to build this relationship, I can't even call it a propper marriage, sorry, getting angry on your behalf

[This message edited by bookworm19 at 11:22 AM, March 25th (Monday)]

You are completely right Grayshades. I feel like my life has been a complete lie. I can’t even wear my wedding rings. I am triggered by all sorts of things right now including sadly my husband telling me “I love you” to me.

But. I am going to move forward and deal with this. I just can’t seem to let this last thing go. I even gave him the last out that if he comes completely clean on everything right now then we will move forward. If I find out anything later we are done.

NorthernMSB, sorry you are here.

If you read a bit in this forum, you will find A LOT of stories where the WS (wayward spouse) swears up and down that sex never happened, only for the BS to find out months or years later that it did happen. Multiple times. Often porn-style.

I recommend reading the book "Not Just Friends". The author had ample experience with infidelity, and stated that the crossing the line to kissing is much harder than from kissing to sex. Add opportunity to the mix and the overwhelming odds are that they did have sex, and plenty of it. Trust your instincts.

Also, the author of "Not Just Friends" points out that affairs with old flames are particularly dangerous. It is extremely unlikely that this is the end of the story. They will likely continue contact or resume it in the future when things are less heated.

You cannot reconcile if you don't know the full truth, or if the affair continues. I would run a recovery software on his phone to retrieve his texts and find out more.

I understand that he is probably love-bombing you, but that is not nearly enough. What is he doing to show you he is trustworthy? As the saying goes in SI: "actions, not words".

Keep posting. It helps.

I read your other posts, and I'm sorry, what happens now, after just about 4 or 5 days, is just love bombing. I'm sorry, I have to agree with Iris.

And this

even gave him the last out that if he comes completely clean on everything right now then we will move forward. If I find out anything later we are done.

sounds more like you are giving/allowing yourself an ultimatum. You know, there is more, there always is and still you will stay and give yourself another dose of hopium, sorry, ultimatum.

After reading your other posts, I'm really sorry, but the stuff he did and said, I'm close to tears. I'm in a 30 years relationship myself and I know, how hard it is bto leave, even without children and other stuff.

This ist is your life and you, and ONLY you, can decide, what are you prepared and willing to digest. What crap are you willing to gulp down.

I really see a lot of myself in you, maybe that's why I'm so pissed of at your husband.

Big hug from me

I had a very similar situation. My H spent most of the night at the OW’s apartment (she lives alone).

First the OW told me no sex. Then in her email telling him off for dumping her instead of me she wrote “I am so glad I did not have sex with you b/c you are just another lying married man.....”.

Do I believe no sex? Hell no!! Maybe they did not have intercourse BUT I am sure it did not stop at kissing.

In the end it doesn’t matter to me. He cheated. He lied. He planned to D me to be with the OW (thinking I was not going to find out).

I do not believe your H did not have sex but slept next to her all night. But it is possible as I was not there. But he cheated. That’s the more important point (to me). The rest are details.

Does it make a difference - sex or no sex? To some people it does. To others it doesn’t. Only you can decide.

But I doubt you will ever get the truthful answer - and if you have then you won’t Believe it anyway so it’s a moot point.

You are right 1st wife. Even if they both take polygraphs, swear on bibles etc. I will not believe them. He cheated. He took everything I deserved as his wife and gave it to someone else. He let me think I was a controlling bitch and broke me down because I suspected and asked. He lied and lied and lied and lied. Spoke to her 2 days before we got married, after my first son was born, hung up on her in our driveway and came in the house and picked a fight with me. I worked and worked and did everything right, worked job after job, kept myself in shape. I am 50 and had two kids and have a 6 pack stomach. I am still beautiful, yes all my self esteem is obviously not gone! I have three degrees, have wriitten 40 books...and to be blunt LOVE sex and there is not much I will not do all the time except share him with another woman. AND ALL THAT WAS NOT ENOUGH. NOTHING.

You are all right. Can’t talk to anyone about this so needed a sounding board. Thanks for every reply.

Please don't feel as if you are not enough, because you are more than that. He just can't handle that.

Let the smoke go away and try to look at your marrige for what it is, form a distance.

My problem was always the escalation of commitement. Maybe you have the same infliction?

I'm sorry but a 20 year "EA", make no mistake about it, this was a PA (making out makes it a PA), plus of course they had sex, since she lives far away, they anticipated every meeting, have him take a polygraph, this may not necessarily been his first rodeo, in a polygraph you only get between 4 to 5 questions, the first 2 questions should be : "Since we're together have you had sex with AP?", "if so more than one time and on different dates ?", "Since we're together have you had any other inappropriate relationship or ONS with anyone else besides AP? ". You're right, adults involved in an A for over 20 years have sex period.

Northern. So sorry for your pain.

If it were me, I would tell him something like,

I am not just assuming you had sex with her since we have been together, I KNOW IT. For my healing. Whether you admit to it or not, I am going forward with the knowledge that my husband had sex with another woman I will be healing from that standpoint. And not that it was an EA with just some touching and kissing.

This obviously further hinders our chances for R, but I am going to give it my best shot, and that requires truthfulness. Your actions will show me if you are giving it your best shot or not.

Use any, all or none of it. But no matter what you say to him, unless he passes 3 different polys asking him if they had PiV intercourse, I would go with it in “fact” in your mind that they did.

That way, if you can recover from that position you know you can possible have a strong M again.

Good luck.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 3:55 PM, March 25th (Monday)]

I forgot to address this -- you're not going to hear that you're naive and stupid because you were neither. Sounds like you had your suspicions and he gaslighted you. That's all on him. And to the degree that he sometimes convinced you, that's happened because you trusted him. Again, that's on him -- he exploited your trust to cheat. So, no, you're not stupid or naive. Sounds like you're already finding your strength and recognizing your worth. Go with that -- it won't steer you wrong.

He saw her for the first time 14 years ago and was not attracted to her (she is a big woman now, he likes the lean muscular type) stayed 10 minutes and left

Here's the question to ask him... If he was not attracted to her 14 years ago because she's a "big girl" (or "roomy", like in Silence of the Lambs), why continue it? Why go have a secret overnight at her house 12 years ago? They've been "in love" for over 30 years, right?

You know in your head that he's lying. Time to book a polygraph if you want to know the truth.

(hugs) ditto to what everyone else has said...they had sex. Even if they didn't, he still cheated your entire marriage.

Frankly, I don't think I could stay in a marriage like that. You are a stronger woman than I.

Is this other woman married? If so, does her spouse know all this?

My H would have a lot of heavy work to get me to stay and I hope he starts to treat you like a Queen. (hugs)

I asked this of another poster on another thread. How can this deep and meaningful love affair go up in a puff of smoke?. I don’t believe it. I think he will sit around and behave himself until you calm down and then it’s right back to her again. This was basically polygamy without your permission. She was treated just like a wife.

Based on another of your threads, how did he take back this:

I am at fault for everything that has ever happened to him. I took away his family, his daughter from a previous relationship, his friends, his everything. I did none of that. And i am hard on myself so I would be upfront. As the evening went on it got worse and I got smaller and smaller. He blamed me for the fact he cheated. it was like he was on a huge cresting wave of hatred, vindictiveness, and it all just poured out over me and through me.

I seriously cannot describe what just happened. I got quieter and quieter and the look on his face was satisfied and almost gleeful as he went through my faults and baggage. My eating disorder, how damaged I am, how it was going to be a "drag" when my father finally dies because of how it will affect my mood. I have been taking care of my dying father for over a year who is now in a longterm care facility.

He listed all the things I need to do in order to keep him and that i should be grateful he stuck around and put up with me. on and on and on and on. Washing over me. I am so lost right now. Financially I cannot leave,

You have been abused.

His words now are just that. Butbtjay doesn't matter. Liars lie. He has over 20 years of experience of lying to you. Why is now different?

He will act the part for a few days maybe even a week but when he has a bad day you can bet your bippity he will text or call her cause that's what he has done for the past years.

I encourage you and your strong 6pack abs to take a step back and decide why YOU want to stay. It may take some IC to get to the point where you have an answer but it's up to you to show people how to treat you and the dynamic of your relationship is quite broken. He needs IC. You need IC. And maybe you both benefit from MC after you both deal with your stuff.

I'd encourage you to put some boundaries in place and be ready to carry through with consequences when he crosses them. It's not a question of if but when with him.