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Heartinpain posted 1/30/2019 10:50 AM

I know that I will take some criticism for this decision. But I have thought at length about it. I know he has turned his back on our marriage and made the choice to fire me as his wife. I’m not sure if it’s codependence, loving too much, or what. But I cannot turn my back on him right now. I am not making any decisions regarding th marriage. I am going to tell him that he may return home, under the condition that absolute NC is established with OW and I have access to his phone at any time. If he does not agree to those terms, then I will tell him that he has to find other living arrangements. I have talked to my kids and explained where I stand, and that their dad needs a place to stay after the hospital, but it doesn’t mean anything for our marriage. I am also telling his family this, so they know upfront where I stand.
I am determined to keep my distance emotionally so that I am not setting myself up for another disappointment. He will not stay in my room. And his behavior and actions going forward will then help me to determine where to go from here. He has a lot of individual healing to do before anything regarding a relationship can be discussed. Plus I don’t even know if I want a relationship with him. These are decisions I don’t need to make now. One day at a time....

Edie posted 1/30/2019 10:57 AM

I hope you will not receive criticism, we are here to help and support you, not bash you.

I respect the decision you have made, there is after all the ‘in sickness and health clause’ which even if he has not observed it, does not mean that you don’t observe it. It is kindness that is guiding you here, not codependency, I would suggest and given you seem clear on the conditions and boundaries and have also your children as support on the matter, it is almost an interesting amnesty situation that could allow for some healing for you.

Good luck, I so hope he is able to not betray this kindness.

crazycatlady posted 1/30/2019 11:04 AM

The children need their father and they need to see that you can put your personal hurt aside in order to keep him alive. I know, I too, am a teacher, and like you, I had to put my hurt aside long enough to get my FWH to do the right thing for his children. Do the 180 and treat him as a sick relative. Kindness but from afar.
Do what you have to but remember, you aren’t trying to save your marriage, you are trying to save your children’s father.
Keep posting, we are here for you.

Sunshine184 posted 1/30/2019 20:50 PM

Hi HIP. Wow, my heart goes out to you ((hugs))
My FWH has depression. When my DDay happened, it was during a time that he was working in a neighbouring country. I told him our marriage was over. We are currently reconciling (I’m in year 3). The reason for reaching out is that, while your husband is in the house, you need to have your own safe place(s). My best friend helped me remove everything that had a connection to him from my bedroom (including all his clothes and dresser). There were no reminders there. I journaled there each night. I lit candles, practiced deep breathing and allowed myself to get stronger with feeling alone and ok like that. I also chose our formal living room as it is east-facing. Since my sleep aid (prescribed by GP after DDay) gave me 4-6 hours of guaranteed sleep, I was up around 4am each day. I would go to the living room, light some candles, get on the floor in ‘easy’ yoga sit, breathe deeply, select a positive mantra to say over and over inside or in a calm, low voice, and watch the sun come up. I began to take yoga classes some evenings so I incorporated that into the morning. This allowed me to begin my day relaxed and hopeful. It’s incredible to watch the sunrise every day. So, I had two safe places in the house that I had claimed once my husband came home. He had a catastrophic accident and I, too, found myself caring for the person who had recently traumatized me as well as our three daughters. You know what I’m proud of? My girls (now 20, 19, 17) really, really admire me, I feel good about that. I’ve maintained my authenticity. You do what will help you get through this incredibly difficult process. You have us on SI to fall back on.

[This message edited by Sunshine184 at 9:15 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)]

Heartinpain posted 1/31/2019 15:54 PM

So, WH is still in hospital. He will be until at least Monday. He had a suicide plan in place and says that seeing our son shortly before stopped him. I am glad that he drove to the hospital instead. Because regardless of our relationship, he is still the father to our kids, and they need him. I have had 2 close friends in my life commit suicide in the last 2 years and I don’t wish that on anyone.
I have presented my terms of coming home, absolutely no contact with OW, full access to phone and a change of phone number. He has agreed.
I need all BS who have been living with WS to help me out with boundaries and dealing with this difficult situation. I have a lot of anxiety regarding this, probably because I’ve already been through 2 d days now. I do not plan on allowing him into our bedroom. DD has been sleeping with me, so he can sleep in her bed. Other than that, what do I do? I don’t know if 180 is appropriate considering his depression and suicidal thoughts, but I also am not ready to go back to the way things were. I am still dealing with the betrayal and my feelings regarding all of this. SI peeps, please help me out.

ChamomileTea posted 1/31/2019 16:13 PM

Has he ended his affair or is he just going NC while in your home?

If the affair is officially ended and his intention is to reengage in the marriage, maintain NC, IC, and transparency, then I think it's okay to drop the 180. If he hasn't done those things, why is he coming back to your home?

Sunshine184 posted 1/31/2019 19:15 PM

Having boundaries and keeping with the 180 will be healthy for both of you. Predictable behaviour, on your part, will keep things from escalating. WH has to help himself - you can’t and shouldn’t expect to do that for him. When my FWH came home from hospital after his accident, I made it clear that I wouldn’t be his rock any more. If his children give him the strength he needs to take baby steps toward finding a better head space, he will benefit from being at home with them. That is your gift to his mental health. You already have enough on your plate. The hospital team assigned to him will have a plan before he is discharged. Continue to take care of you, please do that for yourself.

DarylB posted 1/31/2019 19:30 PM

Heart - I’m sorry you are dealing with more trauma caused by your WH.

I may be way off base here, but this thought popped into my mind. Rather than have him in your home, why doesn’t he go stay with his AP. Let her do the heavy lifting. He can see doctors in her town and establish a health care relationship there, figure out how to pay his bills. He’ll need a job, so he may as well look in her area.

Visitation could take place at his dad’s, his sister’s, or a local Holiday Inn. I doubt he will want to do visitation at AP’s house as he would have to drive 5 hours round trip Saturday morning, then turn around and do it again Sunday evening. But who knows?

I’m concerned about you having to deal with him on a daily basis. It sounds like he is only planning a hiatus from his AP, not making a permanent break.

(((HIP)))

Heartinpain posted 2/1/2019 04:29 AM

Has he ended his affair or is he just going NC while in your home?

He has not ended things yet. He is not allowed to have his phone at the hospital. But he has vowed that he will. I think I may want to be in on that conversation. I want to hear him end it. Is that wise?

Heartinpain posted 2/1/2019 04:37 AM

Rather than have him in your home, why doesn’t he go stay with his AP. Let her do the heavy lifting. He can see doctors in her town and establish a health care relationship there, figure out how to pay his bills. He’ll need a job, so he may as well look in her area.

I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t think this would be good for his mental health, especially being so far from his family.
No matter what happens to our marriage, he’s the father of our children, and I want him to be healthy, if for no other reason than that. I believe OW is unstable herself, and I fear the effects on him.

It sounds like he’s only planning a hiatus from his AP, not making a permanent break.

Just out of curiosity, what leads you to that conclusion?

Edie posted 2/1/2019 04:56 AM

I want to hear him end it. Is that wise?

Essential, in my view.

Although be prepared he may try also to contact her another way to give her a more palatable version than the one he will perform for you. I hope not, and it’s not in your control (although sounds like having control of his phone is a good idea at the moment)

The1stWife posted 2/1/2019 05:04 AM

Heartinpain

I admire your willingness to help him recover.

I hope he sees this gift as an opportunity to make positive changes in his life and see he has a Family that loves him.

I think you have a very good plan in place. I wish you all the best in your H’s recovery.

fareast posted 2/1/2019 05:41 AM

Heartinpain:

I also admire your willingness to be there for your WH during his recovery. Be vigilant. I hope he appreciates the gift you are giving him. Good luck with your plan.

nekonamida posted 2/1/2019 07:16 AM

Heart, it's not wrong to go about it this way. The worst that could happen is that he disappoints you again by not initiating/maintaining NC and if that happens, out he goes. The only thing that is important is that you are okay with this arrangement and the possibility that he breaks it again.

Stevesn posted 2/1/2019 07:47 AM

You have a good heart. I don’t think he’ll ever appreciate that.

Yes you should listen in to his NC message. In fact, it should be a written email that you review first. They shouldn’t talk at all.

But in the end, you do NOT want to be involved with someone who is simply pining away for someone else. Just because he tells her they are done because you are giving him shelter, doesn’t mean it’s over In His heart.

So don’t cater to him. Don’t do his laundry or cook for him unless you are sharing those duties equally, as roommates.

He Is no where near being your lover and confidante or protector again. So don’t pretend he is.

It isnt until he shows signs of true remorse that you even have anything to work with to try and reconcile.

Here’s a list I’ve gathered from SI threads of signs to look for. Until you see them, assume you are proceeding OUT of this relationship.

Take care of yourself.
——-
I believe You currently no where near have a remorseful husband in front of you. If you did, you would know it.

- He would be inconsolable with the thought of how he was the cause of so much pain to the person he loves most in the world.

- he would be begging to know what he could do to make it right.

- for you he would want to let everyone know it was him that screwed up, not you.

- he would want to read books on how to support his BS. He proactively orders them and starts reading. He actively discusses what he is reading

- he would be in IC as much as possible to figure out what went wrong with him and how he could do this to the person he loves most in the world. He proactively schedules this for himself and also proactively asks his therapist for IC recommendations for you to help you deal with the pain he has caused.

- he would feel your pain more than his own and put your happiness ahead of his.

- he would follow your lead when it comes to intimacy, trying to figure out what you need to feel connected again

- he will gladly answer your questions at any time day or night with no objections

- he would write you a letter of apology highlighting how he must have made you feel

- he would proactively create a comprehensive plan to repair the marriage and help you heal

- he would focus most on your well being, ignoring his own

- he would realize what the OW really is and start being sick at the thought of her. He would start calling her names like POS for how she helped him destroy his life.

- They show remorse thru actions, not words. Examples of this could be that they proactively prepared a written timeline of what happened and are as thorough and factual as they can be.

- Other examples are: They book a polygraph when you are available to attend. And they buy a GPS tracker for their car so they can give you peace of mind. They sell something of value to only them to pay for these things so the cost doesn't come from your joint funds (e.g. Collectibles or jewelry or exercise equipment).

If they are only showing Regret and not Remorse then they will only be giving you words, not actions: e.g. "I'm so sorry. But you can trust me now. I promise you I've told you the whole truth: e.g. "You can trust me now. I love you. It didn't mean anything. I know I messed up - do you forgive me? I was so stupid, but I've learned from my mistakes. It's in the past now and we can move forward. I love you more now than I ever have. I promise it will never happen again, can we move on?"

Finally. THE EFFORT PUT INTO RECONCILIATION! If the betrayer doesn't work harder at repairing the relationship than they did to damage it, it isn't going to work no matter if you stay together or not. They need to be working harder at R than you are.

Cooley2here posted 2/1/2019 09:18 AM

I have done my own Amateur research. It is fairly common for people who suffer from chronic depression to self medicate. They will turn to alcohol or some other drug. They will use gambling and occasionally food. The most prevalent that I have seen is cheating. It is because it puts the person in a state of euphoria which is so much better than the depression. Those people don’t understand that euphoria is not long-term. In fact it cannot be sustained. Usually by then the marriage has broken up, the children are hurt, the wayward and his new SO have moved, possibly houses or towns and sometimes countries. For a few years the newness of it all might keep him or her somewhat stable emotionally but because depression is their default state they will return to that. In the meantime bs knows none of this and is still suffering from being cheated on.

It is if a black cloud follows the depressed person everywhere they go and sometimes freezes them it is so deep and heavy. I am not making excuses for your husband at all but just because he comes to your house and stays for a while it will not cure his depression. That support group he belongs to was a way for him to feel better for a few minutes here and there, but all it did was put people together who recognized and understood each other’s pain. Again I don’t excuse the cheating but he was going to go get something in his life, it just happens to be another person. I recommend exercise. That seems to be one of the best ways to fight depression but so many people are so sad that just making themselves get up and do something is impossible

You need to be very clear that he will get himself intensive therapy or you will no longer have him in your home. His illness becomes the family illness unless he gets help.

ChamomileTea posted 2/1/2019 09:50 AM

I want to hear him end it. Is that wise?

Agreed with Edie.. essential. The best method is the NC Letter which the two of you would create together. Cheaters are very often conflict avoidant and they tend to want to let the AP down gently. This creates boldness in the AP and further insecurity in the BS.

The NC letter should be very matter of fact, and even though we're really feeling the anger at the AP, it shouldn't be an attack. You're just going from point A to point B. The WS should state firmly that he desires no further contact with the AP and that he loves his spouse. It's okay for him to apologize to the AP if he feels he must, but not okay for him to be complimentary to her or to profess any lingering feelings. The goal is to achieve No Contact after all, and even though it might feel very harsh from the cheater's POV, the "gentlest" way to let an AP down is to be utterly clear about his intentions.

My WH and I went remarkably fast to creating a united front against further intrusion once he was truly on board for marital repair. I didn't realize the importance of drawing a line under it and he had probably a year of sporadic attempts afterward at contact by two of the APs. This would be after he had already attempted the "let her down gently" method, so we see the results.
The sooner your "united front" begins, the better.

After the NC letter is sent, you'll want to close up every method of contact possible. This too is wisely done together because it enforces the "united front" stance. Change phone numbers and email addresses. Close apps and restrict access on social media platforms or get off them altogether. NC should be easy for him to maintain and hard for her to break.

DarylB posted 2/1/2019 18:40 PM

Heart - you asked what made me think he was just taking a hiatus from the affair rather than permanently stopping the affair. I am NOT a psychiatrist or psychologist. I am concerned about you dealing with him on a daily basis come Monday.

1. He has not shown any regret or remorse for hurting you.
2. He continues contact with AP.
3. He seems to be very selfish and self-centered.

The following quotes from your various posts (in chronological order) give no indication he has thought about you at all. He appears to sometimes care about the kids. It’s all about him.

I asked him to stop contacting her.... For the first 2 weeks after d day, he continued to text and call her. I found out they were still friends on Facebook. He deactivated his Facebook, upon my confronting him. After our first counseling appointment, I found out they were still “talking.”

Six weeks out from d-day #1. And I guess I’m in the midst of d-day #2. I woke up in the middle of the night to discover my husband was not home...The worst part of it all is he let me believe he was remorseful. He let me believe he cared. He let me believe it was over. He let me believe he was trying.

Update: I kicked him out on Sunday, when he returned from his overnight trust ...He said he doesn’t know what he wants...

... but right now, it feels like all of the consequences are falling on me...while he blissfully carries on his affair, without a care in the world.

He has decided he doesn’t want to be married anymore.

He said he wants to see the kids as much as possible, but was non-committal.

He misses seeing his kids and knows that everyone he loves has labeled him a cheater. He told me he knows the OW won’t make him happy and that he knows he will break it off with her eventually. But in the same breath, he said he won’t break it off now. And the only reason he can give me? Because he doesn’t want to...WTF.

Only paying attention to his selfish needs and wants.

Heart - His words and actions may be attributable to his mental issues or his mind was still just in the affair.

Sorry this is such a long answer to a short question.

[This message edited by DarylB at 12:20 AM, February 2nd (Saturday)]

Heartinpain posted 2/9/2019 06:19 AM

Well, he has been home for 6 days now. He has done all that I asked of him. He wrote OW a letter, ending the affair and telling her that he wants to cease all contact. I mailed the letter. We have blocked her # as many ways possible, as well as on all social media. He has deleted Snapchat. He has given me access to his phone, email, etc. He truly seems to be trying.
The depression and anxiety that he has been diagnosed with are taking their toll, however, and he told me he had an active plan for suicide. He also got fired from his job when he went to the hospital (he was in a trial period) So we are treading lightly. His meds will take a few weeks to really have an effect. He is trying to work on himself, as am I, before the relationship becomes our focus.
I am assuming that OW received the letter yesterday. Because last night, he received a call from an unknown #, and I received 2 texts from 2 different unknown #s. I was with him when he received the call and he hung up after a few seconds. In the texts, she pleaded with me to tell her what’s going on. As if I have any sympathy for her pain. Ha! You will all be proud of me! I ignored, deleted, and blocked. I’m not going to feed crazy. We both agreed to not pick up calls from unknown #s and not engage any texts. I hope she doesn’t show up on my doorstep.
WH was pretty upset about all of this and was shocked that she would stoop so low. I told him that I had been anticipating this and he seemed to begin seeing her in the light of day. We will see. I will continue to check for any contact,

ChamomileTea posted 2/9/2019 07:17 AM

It's not unusual for an OW to continue attempts contact, so it might be wise to change the phone number altogether... because it's also not unusual for affairs to restart if NC isn't maintained. Your WH should understand that she's not respecting his stated boundaries.

There's a book called I Don't Want to Talk About It by Terrence Real which might shed more light on the depression. Real specializes in male depression, particularly what he refers to as "covert male depression". This is characterized by the kind of grandiose behaviors we often see in midlife guys, so I think it can get missed. NOT making excuses for your WH, because he knew fully well what he was doing and the difference between right an wrong, but... Real's experience suggests that the cure to "covert" depression is overt depression. As unpleasant as it is, the author makes a good case for why this is the only real way to excise the underlying emotional poison. Anyway, it's a informative read.